Talk:Derek Chauvin: Difference between revisions

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Talk:Killing of George Floyd

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+#REDIRECT [[Talk:Killing of George Floyd]]
-{{tlx|db-talk| A speedy deletion tag was placed on this article by an individual who then blanked the article, including the db, a few minutes later.  I had pointed out to them that db8 was only supposed to be used for articles that were essentially duplicates of previously deleted material.  No article had been previously deleted.  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 23:32, 3 June 2020 (UTC)}}
-{{WPBIO|listas=Chauvin, Derek |living=yes}}
-{{WP Minnesota}}
-== Contested deletion ==
-This page should not be speedily deleted because... (it can be redirected to [[George Floyd]] or one of many other suitable pages) --[[User:Jax 0677|Jax 0677]] ([[User talk:Jax 0677|talk]]) 23:02, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
-:Yes, it will certainly need to be a redirect - the issue is whether the revision history needs to be deleted. [[User:StAnselm|<b>St</b>]][[Special:Contributions/StAnselm|Anselm]] ([[User talk:StAnselm|talk]]) 23:14, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
-:* {{U|StAnselm}}, I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:StAnselm&diff=960616433&oldid=960616189#A_heads-up already explained to you], on your user talk page, that db-repost is only supposed to be used on material that was previously deleted.  The [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Derek+Chauvin logs for this page] show that this article was not previously deleted.
-:: I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Derek_Chauvin&diff=960619329&oldid=960617516 removed] the db-repost tag you placed in violation of policy.  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 23:47, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
-:::{{u|Geo Swan}} the title is irrelevant. G4 allows deletion of '''subjects''' that have been discussed at AFD and deleted. [[User:Praxidicae|Praxidicae]] ([[User talk:Praxidicae|talk]]) 23:50, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
-:::* Clarification please. {{U|Praxidicae}}  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 00:15, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
-:::: {| class="wikitable"
-! [[WP:CSD#G4]] says ||
-|-
-| This applies to sufficiently identical copies, having any title... ||
-I ''think'' you are arguing that the deletion of [[Derek Chauvin (police officer)]] justifies the G4 here.
-However, {{U|StAnselm}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:StAnselm&diff=960615938&oldid=960615474 already acknowledged], on his or her user talk page, that they don't know what any deleted material said.  The claim they used for placing the tag there?  ''" But the consensus was clear that there should not be an article about this person."''
-I think you know that is not how deletion works. A brand new version requires a brand new AFD.  AFDs which conclude a topic itself should never have an article are rare.  They result in salting the topic name.  For 99.x percent of articles deleted at AFD, good faith contributors who think they can draft a different version, one with references not used in the earlier version, one which they think does measure up to our inclusion criteria, are entitled to go ahead and do so, without having to worry about contributors interfering with their work with inappropriate speedy deletion claims.
-|-
-| It excludes pages that are not substantially identical to the deleted version... ||
-As above, StAnselm has no idea as to whether this version is identical to the version of [[Derek Chauvin (police officer)]] that was deleted.
-|}
-::::* I don't need a giant chart, you can go read [[WP:G4]]. It says NOTHING about "the title must be the same." Changing a title is not a substantial difference. The AFD was pretty clear that this shouldn't exist as a standalone article. And considering you can't see the deleted version either, you're not in a position to be making the judgement about whether it's sufficiently similar or not either. [[User:Praxidicae|Praxidicae]] ([[User talk:Praxidicae|talk]]) 00:28, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
-:::::* {{U|Praxidicae}}, you wrote something that really surprised me.  ''"The AFD was pretty clear that this shouldn't exist as a standalone article."''
-:::::: As I wrote above, AFD do, very rarely, close with a decision that an article's underlying topic, itself, should never be covered in a standalone article.  When that conclusion is reached the article is salted.
-:::::: But almost all AFDs that close with a delete are simply deleting that version, at that date.  Good faith contributors are welcome to try and draft a new version that addresses the concern that triggered the deletion, or a new version that includes references not available or not found, when the earlier version was deleted.  Speedy deletion of a recreated article has always been interpreted as not applying to new versions that meaningfully differed from the deleted version.
-:::::: Your comment seems to imply that, in your opinion, every AFD delete closure is tantamount to a SALT decision, and no one should ever think they are permitted to draft a new version of any deleted article, no matter how many new developments there are, now many new references are published.  So, is this what you meant to write?  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 03:26, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
-:::::::{{u|Geo Swan}}, AfDs are community discussions to determine whether a subject is [[WP:N|notable]] enough for an article. In this case, the determination was that Chauvin is not notable per [[WP:BLP1E]], and we would not have an article on him unless that changes. If you do not like the outcome of that AfD, you may take it to [[WP:DRV]] for review. But recreating it under another title and wikilawyering over whether it's eligible for [[WP:G4|G4]] is disruptive. – [[User:Bradv|<span style="color:#333">'''brad''v'''''</span>]][[User talk:Bradv|<span style="color:transparent;text-shadow:0 0 0 black;font-size:80%">🍁</span>]] 03:40, 4 June 2020 (UTC)