Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions
EdJohnston (talk | contribs) →Result concerning Makeandtoss: Closed with a warning |
EdJohnston (talk | contribs) →Makeandtoss: Closing, User:Makeandtoss is advised |
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==Makeandtoss== |
==Makeandtoss== |
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{{hat|1=[[User:Makeandtoss]] is advised that marking places as being in the [[State of Palestine]] may expose him to ARBPIA sanctions unless he gets consensus. Warring about the scope of designations such as Israel, the West Bank, or Palestine is not recommended for anyone. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 00:50, 13 September 2016 (UTC) }} |
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<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> |
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===Request concerning Makeandtoss=== |
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; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Sir Joseph}} 14:08, 7 September 2016 (UTC) |
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Sir Joseph}} 14:08, 7 September 2016 (UTC) |
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:*I would close this with a warning to [[User:Makeandtoss]] that if he continues to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Qasr_el_Yahud&type=revision&diff=738195136 mark West Bank locations as being in the State of Palestine], without getting a prior talk page consensus to do so, he may be blocked or topic banned. In the past we are used to editors supporting the Israeli side trying to extend their turf into the West Bank, and in this case an editor who appears to favor the Palestinian side doing the opposite. If Wikipedia starts to mark places as being in the State of Palestine a large number of article leads would have to change, and I see no immediate prospect of such a change being agreed to. So far we have an article on the [[State of Palestine]]; see its talk page for status. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 16:54, 12 September 2016 (UTC) |
:*I would close this with a warning to [[User:Makeandtoss]] that if he continues to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Qasr_el_Yahud&type=revision&diff=738195136 mark West Bank locations as being in the State of Palestine], without getting a prior talk page consensus to do so, he may be blocked or topic banned. In the past we are used to editors supporting the Israeli side trying to extend their turf into the West Bank, and in this case an editor who appears to favor the Palestinian side doing the opposite. If Wikipedia starts to mark places as being in the State of Palestine a large number of article leads would have to change, and I see no immediate prospect of such a change being agreed to. So far we have an article on the [[State of Palestine]]; see its talk page for status. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 16:54, 12 September 2016 (UTC) |
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::*Closing. [[User:Makeandtoss]] is warned he should get consensus before marking places as being in the [[State of Palestine]]. Wikipedia's handling of contested geography is a possible venue for the I/P dispute, but admins may take action if it continues there. Changes need discussion and agreement. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 00:29, 13 September 2016 (UTC) |
::*Closing. [[User:Makeandtoss]] is warned he should get consensus before marking places as being in the [[State of Palestine]]. Wikipedia's handling of contested geography is a possible venue for the I/P dispute, but admins may take action if it continues there. Changes need discussion and agreement. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 00:29, 13 September 2016 (UTC) |
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{{hab}} |
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==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Kamel Tebaast== |
==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Kamel Tebaast== |
Revision as of 00:50, 13 September 2016
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Sahrin
User:Sahrin is warned for personal attacks and reminded that edits about gun control are expected to be neutral. EdJohnston (talk) 20:41, 7 September 2016 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Sahrin
The following starters are from the EWN case just a couple days ago the EWN case closed just a day ago
The EWN notice resulted in Sahrin being blocked for edit warring by User:Someguy1221. First three contribs upon returning:
I took at shot at talking with them, ignoring the attacks and strangeness: dif
I have to imagine that this is why Arbcom sets up enduring DS on this topic; I don't even edit gun topics, but I am a "Gun zealot"? It is crazy. Every edit they have made since this started has been laden with personal attack and emotion; typical of these issues that have DS on them. But this is over top; there is no room to work here. I don't want to bring content into this, but there is also a WP:CIR thing going on here, as the Dickey Amendment doesn't say what Sahrin thinks it does, - this is really simple;
It is/was not even a hard issue to resolve in some ways. I ~think~ maybe Sahrin wants to say something about the effect of the Dickey Amendment on researchers but with all the aggression, attacks, and demands, and tangle, I can't figure out what that might be. The behavior and approach to other editors makes working it out way uglier than anything has to be in WP and there is no reason to put up with this. This is what DS are for; please apply them.
Discussion concerning SahrinStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SahrinI can only laugh bemusedly at this entire affair. From day one Jytdog has behaved aggressively and harassed me. Based on the evidence that is available in the logs, it can be seen that Jytdog's initial and repeated effort was to revert a consensus version of the article that was achieved a few weeks before this incident. He was saved from a 3RR violation only by brigading the article (ie, summoning either a like-minded user, or a sock puppet account to revert so that he did not jeopardize his own account). I admit I was not aware of the "bright line" 3RR rule, but overturning an existing consensus (which contained both the content of the law in question; as the initial 'other side' advocated; as well as the actual cause of the controversy (the effort to censor researchers) seemed grounds for aggressive action. I was banned, and was wrong to revert three times without logging into an alt account as Jytdog did. The issue began, though, when Jytdog, after seeing my reverts, initiated an aggressive program of harassment - making three separate edits to my user talk page (all evidenced in his links above so I won't reproduce them) in response to a *single edit.* His every effort appeared to be to entrap me into a 3RR violation, including very strong language in comments in edit notes like "This is not optional." I admit, I was frustrated, and reverted three times. But the notion that anything is being done but normal revision of an article that is being interfered with by Jytdog is absolutely hilarious. His behavior has gone over the line time and again, and when this is pointed out to him (that he is harassing me and brigading an article) he responds with "personal attacks! personal attacks!" That's all fine, but the evidence just isn't there for that behavior. With the exception of the 3RR I have remained civil and results oriented at all times, meanwhile Jytdog seems to be interested in carrying out a personal vendetta against me...why I cannot say. There are a number of problems with Jytdog's version of events:
In short, I don't have a comprehensive understanding of all the WP:Policy bits. I made an error before in the 3RR situation, and I apologize for that. But what going on here is a very passionate editor has lost perspective on a situation, and is trying to push his own feeling too far. I've been editing WP for...13 years now, I believe. If the Arb committee decides it's my time to go, then it's my time. Thanks for the good times, it was a fun project to contribute to.
Added 21:30 UTC: So I have reviewed Jytdog's block log. It appears he has been banned permanently on two separate instances for similar behaviors, only to be unbanned after appealing to the Arb Committee. I can't see into the committee's deliberations myself, but if I've ever heard of a case of misplaced aggression/transferrance this appears to follow it to a textbook. In my entire history with WP I have never had any interaction with Admins or disciplinary groups, until Jytdog. Sahrin (talk) 21:32, 2 September 2016 (UTC) Added 2016-19-05 1746 UTC: Comment on the admin's page *was not about this issue.* This was stated several times and for the record above. Comments regarding neutrality of other editors were made only after my neutrality was questioned, and repeated reverts were made without substantiation for the revert. As I noted, I became frustrated and committed the 3RR. I have already backed away from the dispute; I made a further comment on the talk page which failed to achieve consensus and have not said anything further on the topic. The evidence for "whitewashing" is readily available - there were repeated attempts to remove factually true information from an article to present a particular viewpoint (that there was no controversy), I must admit I find it frustrating that the admins in question have not seen this in the record; if agreeing to remove myself from the situation is what causes this to blow over then I'm totally down with it. As far as de-escalating, I will not have anything further to do with the topic or certainly the editor in question. I have received messages from several other editors criticizing the neutrality/behavior of the editor in question in the past, and need no further convincing that he is not someone I want to be involved with. Sahrin (talk) 21:51, 5 September 2016 (UTC) Added 2016-09-06 1000 UTC: The editor in question did not follow the editorial process. If it is against Wikipedia policy to point this out, it seems like it would be impossible for me to end up in this situation (ie, accused of not following processes). This is the point that is unclear to me, and the reason that such comments can't be 'withdrawn.' The evidence is strong, and while I'm eager to work with all editors I can't ignore strong evidence. My question is: If it is acceptable for the editor in question to accuse me of violating wikipedia policy, why is it unacceptable for me to do the same? An answer from any neutral party could profitably resolve the dispute. Failing an answer, as I have said I will have nothing further to do with the editor in question so it's a moot point in either case. Sahrin (talk) 10:04, 6 September 2016 (UTC) Statement by OIDPlease note in the above statement where Sahrin accuses Jytdog of socking to avoid 3rr ("I was banned, and was wrong to revert three times without logging into an alt account as Jytdog did."). Dont think anything more needs to be said. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:24, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning Sahrin
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Orasis
Orasis (talk · contribs) is banned from the WP:ARBPIA topic area, broadly construed, for 6 months. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:36, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Orasis
Discussion concerning OrasisStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by OrasisI will not appeal shit, I will change my IP. The fact that only the Israeli view is allowed here is apparent. I will return, eat shit. Statement by (username)Result concerning Orasis
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Philip Cross
Closed with no action taken. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 04:05, 11 September 2016 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Philip Cross
The second revert uses a different source (i.e., not the same as with his first attempt to add this material on 2 Sept.). But it is a revert all the same insofar as it attempts to have the Jeremy Corbyn article include implication of the idea that he is an anti-Semite (has been accused of, is indifferent to, etc.). Different sources and different ways of expressing the idea don't hide the underlying impulse here. Also worth noting is that the issue is under discussion on the talk page ([2]), where it's entirely evident that there is no consensus to add a particular passage along these lines. Finally, attempt to raise the point with the editor on his talk page did not succeed: [3].
Discussion concerning Philip CrossStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Philip CrossMost of the other users on the talkpage opposing any mention of the issue of Jeremy Corbyn and the antisemitism issue are stonewalling in my opinion, and unable to acknowledge any other viewpoint as being valid. The citation Nomoskedasticity mentions was on 2 September, not within the last 24 years. In the 2 September addition, I did not claim Corbyn is "indifferent" to the issue in the article itself, nor make a direct claim about his attitudes. The objection of other users is to a tweet I added by the Times journalist Oliver Kamm (cited to a reliable source) and is a matter of interpretation over which there is disagreement. The issue of Corbyn's past association with (quoting from my edit today which Nomoskedasticity cites) "alleged antisemites and Holocaust deniers" has repeatedly been referred to in the British media, and internationally, yet other editors cannot accept this is notable and should be included in the main Corbyn article. My new mention of this issue consists of one sentence, and a citation. Hardly excessive. There is a related issue concerning the talkpage discussion. Many editors are unwilling to countenance the inclusion in the article of the issue of online sexist and homophobic, as well as antisemite abuse, by people who claim to be Corbyn's supporters. The issue of Corbyn's apparent inability to deal with the abuse issue has again frequently been raised. For instance, by many of the former shadow ministers who resigned from Labour's shadow cabinet last June, other Labour MPs who were among the 172 who supported a motion of no confidence in Corbyn, and commentators in the media. Since this complaint was filed, I have added Corbyn's responses. I usually add opposing views, or opinions I do not share, in such instances. The Labour Party is split over the issue of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, probably the most serious crisis the party has faced in more than 80 years (the party had a major split in 1931, and a more minor one in 1981), with a new split being openly discussed because of Corbyn's leadership, yet this article barely touches on any of this. Philip Cross (talk) 12:47, 6 September 2016 (UTC) Statement by KingsindianIf this was a WP:1RR violation, it was pretty minor and borderline. There's lots of discussion on the talkpage, both before and since. Normal content dispute procedures are being followed. Suggest closing with no action. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 16:45, 8 September 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Philip Cross
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Volunteer Marek
No action taken. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 19:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Volunteer Marek
The following comments are in explanation of the edit differences provided above: Clinton Cash is a book by Peter Schweizer and published by HarperCollins. The book was reviewed in the New York Times[5] and other mainstream media. The Times review said, "“Clinton Cash” is potentially more unsettling [than other books about the Clintons], both because of its focused reporting and because major news organizations including The Times, The Washington Post and Fox News have exclusive agreements with the author to pursue the story lines found in the book." While the author is a conservative and his analysis of the Clintons may differ from liberal observers, there is no suggestion that he is far right, a conspiracy theorist or a nutjob. Volunteer Marek's tone has also been abrasive and dismissive in speaking about other editors and the Republican presidential nominee. I asked Volunteer Marek to remove his comments on Clinton Cash,[6] which he rejected.[7] TFD (talk) 23:20, 6 September 2016 (UTC) Volunteer Marek, referring to an established journalist and author as a nutjob right-wing conspiracy theorist is in my opinion defamatory or at least a violation of biography of living persons policy since it impugns the integrity or judgment of someone whose career is based on a reputation for integrity and judgment. It is also an attack on the publisher, because reputable publishers do not publish such works, which is why they are reputable and their reputation is a key element in their success. Ironically, your objection to Clinton Cash was that "BLP applies," in that case that we could not "add this junk" which you saw as prejudicial to living persons. (18:16, 14 August 2016) Your comments on Trump ("Man, this guy makes the life of a Wikipedia editor hard.") shows a personal preference against him, yet in the previous edit above, you accuse other editors of being so influenced by political bias that it affects their judgment. TFD (talk) 02:09, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Volunteer MarekStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Volunteer MarekSigh. So you can get dragged to AE now for criticizing a ... book. While other editors run around Wikipedia creating POVFORKs and game the DS system. Right. Here's links about the book (already provided in relevant discussion plus some more) Clinton Cash Crushed By Facts As Author Admits He Has No Evidence Of Clinton Crimes Clinton Cash: errors dog Bill and Hillary exposé – but is there any 'there' there?, [8]. According to the Guardian "the book is an unrestrained attack on the former president and first lady." Sources - though obviously not all - do call it a "conspiracy theory" Anyway, why is this even being brought up to AE? Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:13, 7 September 2016 (UTC) And I genuinely have no idea what is suppose to be wrong in this diff presented by The Four Deuces. I'm sorry, you lost me.Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:19, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Dude, it's expressing an opinion about the quality a source. An opinion which is actually shared by other reliable sources. Stop being silly. Or WP:BOOMERANG for obvious WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:59, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Statement by TimothyjosephwoodI Statement by MrXWP:ARBAPDS remedies are intended to address behavioral issues like edit warring, personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, harassment, disruptive point-making, and gaming the system. The diffs presented as violations of these remedies don't nearly justify arbitration enforcement. What I see here is legitimate criticism of sources and pushback on what is arguable a fruit salad of an article, the purpose of which may be to cast a living person in a negative light. While Marek's passion could stand to be dialed down a notch or two, nothing evident here, in the article talk page, or the article edit history, rises to the level of a sanctionable offense in my opinion.- MrX 14:40, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Statement by My very best wishesI think Marek was right on the essence of the issue. In particular, Peter Schweizer was described by Media Matters for America as someone who "has a disreputable history of reporting marked by errors and retractions, with numerous reporters excoriating him for facts that "do not check out," sources that "do not exist," and a basic failure to practice "Journalism 101." (see here). My very best wishes (talk) 18:29, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Statement by SPECIFICOThe article in question is crap and it was created by experienced editors whose history shows they're smart enough to understand the SYNTH, OR, BLP slams, and failed Verification they put up. They were also well aware of ARBAP2 and BLP discretionary sanctions. What's infuriating is that Arbcom/Admins are looking the other way while preposterous POV-pushing is proliferating. Even the few Admins who venture a peek say "just a content dispute" or some other reason to turn their backs. This article should have been aborted as soon as it went up. Who really wants to waste time pretending this is normal content editing editors who should long ago have been TBANned from American Politics continue to game the system? We're nowhere near the election in WP-time and if the sanctions are not enforced 2016 is going to make past political dust-ups look like a picnic. Kudos to Marek for trying to do the right thing. Oh gee, he's peeved. We should all be peeved and worse. SPECIFICO talk 11:20, 8 September 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Volunteer Marek
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Makeandtoss
User:Makeandtoss is advised that marking places as being in the State of Palestine may expose him to ARBPIA sanctions unless he gets consensus. Warring about the scope of designations such as Israel, the West Bank, or Palestine is not recommended for anyone. EdJohnston (talk) 00:50, 13 September 2016 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This is about a site located in the West Bank. Since calling it State of Palestine is POV, I changed it to West Bank since that is technically where the location is. I then continued to expand the page finding live links, adding more refs, etc. User then came back with his NPOV edit and edit summary.
Discussion concerning MakeandtossStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Makeandtoss
Statement by TracyMcClarkHow about turning the focus on the filer's 3 reverts within 24 hours? Initial revert/content here 1st revert here 3rd revert here (added twice today) Statement by NishidaniSir Joe, you have a right to challenge editors who prefer ‘State of Palestine’ for anything in the West Bank. But when you reverting them on this, while adding a cat for Tourism in Israel you are contradicting yourself, and reality. All Israelis know that the West Bank is not in Israel. Nishidani (talk) 17:23, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Statement by PolentarionI would prefer if the parties involved referred to a Wikipedia:Third opinion or other peaceful means instead of asking for a Enforcement. Thnx. I succeded in cooperation with Makeandtoss on the other sice of the Jordan, at the Al-Maghtas article. I think that both sides of the debate here have not been acting properly. Don't go into detail of the overall conflict, check what the category means. I guess that 'Tourism in israel' is just about the tourism managed by the Israel ministry of tourism and does not imply a decision about the appropriate ruler of the territory. Polentarion Talk 14:13, 9 September 2016 (UTC) Result concerning Makeandtoss
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Kamel Tebaast
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- Kamel Tebaast (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – KamelTebaast 00:00, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- 30-Day Topic Ban
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- Lord Roem (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
- Notification
Statement by Kamel Tebaast
As I understand, Wikipedia’s appeal process is similar to a parole hearing. The prisoner/editor should take full responsibility for his/her crimes/policy violations, not blame anyone, embody full contrition while showing an eagerness to improve, and promise not to repeat the crimes/disruptive patterns that led to the imprisonment/block or ban.
However, I still do not understand how I violated policies in order to be sanctioned, let alone given a 30-day topic ban. I suggest that getting banned while not understanding why only promotes recidivism. I believe that I stayed within Wikipedia’s WP:BOLD and WP:BRD policies, while it seemed that policy guidelines were not followed in terms of possible (uninvolved editor/administrator) warnings, intervention, or proper discussion about any editing problems prior to my being sanctioned. I brought an editor to AE, and I ended up being topic banned. Experiencing WP:BOOMERANG firsthand is like living Kafka’s The Trial.
During the AE, Nishidani leveled many accusations against my editing and me. I will address only two specific areas of editing prior to my being topic-ban:
1.Kibbutz Beit Alpha
A persistent thread runs throughout Wikipedia that Jews illegally stole Arab land in (pre-1948) Palestine (and that it continues today in Israel, but that discussion is for another forum). With that background, there was a sentence in Kibbutz Beit Alpha’s lede that read:
- The kibbutz as well as the archaeological site nearby containing the remains of an ancient synagogue, got their name from the Arab village that once stood here, Khirbet Bait Ilfa.[1]
In examining the source, I learned that the exact quote is:
- "The city is named after the nearby ruins of Khirbet Beit Ilfa; it shows no occupation before the Roman period."
In other words, the kibbutz does not sit on top of what was once an abandoned Arab village. Subsequently, I deleted the sentence.
In Talk, more sources were provided (confirmed by Nishidani here) that the village of Khirbet Beit Ilfa was nearby Beit Alpha, not below (as was written in the previous article). In the same discussion I learned from Nishidani that had I simply changed 'that once stood on the site' to 'nearby’, my edit would have been acceptable. In any case, I dealt with those issues in Talk, acquiesced, became a catalyst for change to improve the article, and I added the following line in the Geography section (that still stands):
- “The kibbutz was founded near an abandoned Arab village, Khirbet Bait Ilfa...”
However, a recent Nishidani edit in the History section reads:
- “The kibbutz as well as the archaeological site with the remains of the synagogue nearby took their name from the abandoned Arab village, Khirbet beit Ilfa, which once stood on the site.” [Emphasis mine.]
The sources state that the abandoned village was “nearby” and Nishidani knows it. Is this not POV-pushing? Is that not disruptive editing? Is Lord Roem not “troubled” by this?
I believe that my edits in the Beit Alpha article do not in any way exhibit a pattern of disruptive editing, and further show that I am willing to engage in dialogue and edit with consensus while improving articles.
2. Yasser Arafat
To many people globally, not just Israelis, Yasser Arafat was first known as a terrorist before he marketed himself/was elevated (however one views it) as a statesman of peace. I also understand that consensus trumps facts on Wikipedia. Yet Arafat’s lede is written and sourced to portray him almost entirely as a humanitarian. That is hardly neutral. His Nobel Prize is highlighted with virtually no violent history preceding it.
The entire lede is POV, pushing toward a Palestinian nationalism viewpoint: “popularly known as”, “was a Palestinian leader”, “He was Chairman of…”, “President of…”, “and leader of…”, “he founded”, “he modified his position”, “faced off with”, “...engaged in a series of negotiations with the government of Israel to end the decades-long conflict between it and the PLO”, “received the Nobel Peace Prize”, “after effectively being confined within his Ramallah compound for over two years by the Israeli army”, and “The majority of the Palestinian people—regardless of political ideology or faction—viewed him as a heroic freedom fighter and martyr who symbolized the national aspirations of his people”.
Where is the neutrality from this career? Even when there is a hint that Arafat had a violent history, his organization, Fatah, is given the modifier “former paramilitary group”.
In the entire 350-plus-word lede, the term for what Arafat was known as, “terrorist”, appears once—the last word. Even then it was “balanced” by framing it that only Israelis (the bad guys) believe it.
With this background, my first edit on Arafat’s page read:
- “As History's biography wrote, "For two decades the PLO launched bloody attacks on Israel, and Arafat gained a reputation as a ruthless terrorist".[5]
Nishidani reverted my edit for, “Fails RS; adopts the nonRS POV; duplicates higherup the POV given below, without the other POV for balance”.
I did not revert Nishidani’s edit nor did I edit-war with him. Rather, I took his direction and I reviewed the sentence that he referred to in his revert. It read:
“Arafat remains a controversial figure. The majority of the Palestinian people—regardless of political ideology or faction—viewed him as a heroic freedom fighter and martyr who symbolized the national aspirations of his people, while many Israelis have described him as an unrepentant terrorist.[8][9]”
That sentence’s POV, as I discussed with Nishidani in the Talk page, is heavily weighted toward the Palestinian nationalism cause. Here are the reasons:
- “majority of the Palestinians” vs. “many Israelis”. Doing the math, many could mean a few hundred people, while majority of Palestinians means millions. In essence, this could mean, subtly, that only a few hundred people view Arafat as an unrepentant terrorist.
- The belief that he was an unrepentant terrorist has been limited only to Israelis while a plethora of sources show that many globally also view him as a “terrorist”. Source Source Source Source Source Source Source
- Five aspects pertaining to Arafat’s stature were given pushing the Palestinian POV:
- “heroic”
- “freedom fighter”
- “martyr”
- “regardless of political ideology or faction”
- “symbolized the national aspirations of his people”
Only one was given from a large and opposing and viewpoint: “unrepentant terrorist”.
Other than “many Israelis viewed him as an unrepentant terrorist”, there was virtually nothing in the lede to give any context as to why they viewed him as such. There was virtually nothing written about his decades of murderous attacks, primarily aimed at civilians, which led to the loss of thousands of innocent lives. Therefore, two days following my previous edit in another section, I tried to bring neutrality with this edit:
- The majority of the Palestinian people—regardless of political ideology or faction—viewed him as a heroic freedom fighter and martyr who symbolized the national aspirations of his people, while many Israelis and people worldwide have described him as an unrepentant terrorist because of his decades of violence, aimed mostly at civilians.[2][3] [My edit in bold]
Ohnoitsjamie reverted me here with “unnecessary POV.”
I reverted Ohnoitsjamie here based on “Limiting to just Israelis is POV“
Nishidani reverted me here.
Most importantly, I discussed this in Talk here and I made no further edits.
In comparing the aforementioned edits to another editor and his/her edits in the Jewish Voice for Peace article, I made this initial edit:
- “JVP endorsed the platform of the Black Lives Matter Movement, which, among other things, accuses Israel of "genocide." Source
Malik Shabazz followed up with what I believe was a revert, adding his/her POV “fixing hyperbolic addition”:
- In 2016, JVP endorsed the platform of The Movement for Black Lives, which, in one of its many points, uses the word "genocide" to describe Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. [Bold for MShabazz’s edits]
- For those editors who are having difficulty seeing the 1RR violation:
- According to WP:ANEW, "Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert." Kamel Tebaast added this line to the article - 'JVP endorsed the platform of The Black Lives Matter movement, which, among other things, accuses Israel of "genocide" ' Malik's first revert, at 13:03, 7 August 2016 , removes the words "among other things, accuses Israel of " and replaces them with his own formulation. That's the first revert, a partial one, which undoes the work of Kamel.
More importantly--not stated by Epson--M.Shabazz changed Black Lives Matter to the Movement for Black Lives, an entirely different organization. The source did mention that Black Lives Matter endorsed this platform and that BLM is one of the participating organizations in the Movement for Black Lives. However, to paraphrase User:Kingsindian here, had MShabazz simply added the “Movement of Black Lives”, with Black Lives Matter as one of the 50 participating organizations, that would have been an edit. He didn’t. He completely deleted the (household and sometimes controversially recognized) name of Black Lives Matter.
In any case, according to Softlavender, Kingsindian, Nishidani, Drmies, and Lord Roem, M.Shabazz’s edit was not a revert, rather only an edit, yet these same editors and administrators found that my addition on Yasser Arafat was a revert, not an edit.
To be specific, adding “one of its many points” and “to describe Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians” (and deleting and replacing the name of one organization with another) is “editing” while adding “and people worldwide” and “because of his decades of violence, aimed mostly at civilians” is a “revert” and POV-pushing.
This inconsistency that persists throughout Wikipedia regarding a lack of clarity among policies and sanctions, varies among editors and administrators. Even Nishidani wrote: “Now I have always admitted that I have no understanding of 1R, except to think that...I know it's simple, but I can't figure it out.” I surmise that Nishidani’s inability to understand the 1RR is due to the difficulty to differentiate between an edit and a revert.
Wikipedia’s definition of a reversion is “an edit, or part of an edit, that completely reverses a prior edit, restoring at least part of an article to what it was before the prior edit. The typical way to effect a reversion is to use the "undo" button in the article's history page, but it isn't any less of a reversion if one simply types in the previous text.”
My entire appeal comes down to two things: 1) Did my initial edit reverse the sentence? 2) Was I POV-pushing?
Another problem
In following WP:BRD, it seems to go in one direction. Edits are made and editors are revert-happy, while the policy clearly states:
- Consider reverting only when necessary. Reversion should be a last choice in editing: the first choice in editing should always be to improve an article by refinement, not to revert changes by other editors.
Were there zero merits to my edits? Was there not a way to refine them? Only reverts were made and I, who was simply trying to bring neutrality, was sanctioned for, among other things, disruptive editing.
Sockpuppet: the elephant in the room
Observing the flow of the proceeding when it veered from complaints against MShabazz and turned into an assault on me was an interesting case study that seems to justify legitimate criticism about Wikipedia in general and against administrators in particular.
Ironically, it began with a contribution here by Johnuniq, writing: “There is an ANI report where Kamel Tebaast (talk · contribs) (account created on 30 May 2016) uses perfectly formed procedures. Naturally no one can prove anything except for the obvious: WP:ARBPIA is not working.” I wrote “ironically” because Johnuniq reverted my revert of another revert regarding this exact criticism of Wikipedia. [Johnuniq was later reverted and the quote still stands.]
Johnuniq made no comment regarding my editing, just popped in to push forward unfounded accusations against me from another proceeding that I am a sockpuppet, or someone else is a sockpuppet of me. [That gossip was started in another proceeding by an editor who was later banned indefinitely. You can’t make this stuff up.]
During the previous ANI, four administrators agreed with each other to stop unfounded accusations of sockpuppetry:
- Robert McClenon: “I suggest that this thread be closed with a warning to Bolter21 that any future allegations of sockpuppetry that are not actually reported at WP:SPI will result in a block.”
- Blackmane: “Editors have been blocked in the past for persistent accusations of sockpuppetry without evidence. As the saying goes, "put up or shut up"
- Cameron11598: The proof is in the pudding so to speak, if you have evidence for an SPI file one if not stop with the accusations.
- Drmies There is no evidence whatsoever that Comment, please is a sock of Kamal (and bringing up a sock in a highly-visible forum is really stupid anyway), and as was said before, put up or shut up. Unfounded sock accusations are frequently used as ammunition in conflicts, but they are a denial of AGF. So don't do it again.
Yet, what happened? Two administrators not only picked up Johnuniq’s statement, but carried it forward. Softlavender wrote:
- " I agree with Johnuniq -- the details of that ANI are pretty damning and indeed the OP's entire edit history including this AE is pretty telling.
Bishonen’s entire deliberation revolved around everything other than my editing:
- “Kamel Tebaast is obviously not the user's first account, per Johnuniq above and other QUACK-y indications. I'm not sure whether the previous account[s] is/are blocked or topic banned, though it seems likely.” Then Bishonen deduced that I’ve been here for a long time because I knew that M.Shabazz is a former administrator. [I showed Bishonen that I was actually first informed about it here.]
At least Admin Drmies took his/her own advice and didn’t engage in the sockpuppetry accusations.
So, is my 30-day topic ban based on unfounded speculation that I am a sockpuppet, or because of the editing, or both? This is the exact Kafkaesque nonsense that permeates Wikipedia.
The sanction
In terms of the sanction, Kingsindian wrote: “In general, Kamel Tebaast seems amenable to reason and willing to compromise, so I see no reason they can't continue to work productively in this area.”
Nishidani--who leveled most of the accusations against me--wrote:
“...there is no need for draconian measures, and we should heed Kingsindian's point that he does use the talk pages, (if only, too often, after an editorial fait accompli on articles). I think a verbal slap on the wrist insufficient, because there is a repetitive pattern even after warnings. Probably a week or two in porridge would get the message over, that, whatever the POV and its strength any editor may have, high standards, detachment and care in sourcing are fundamental.”
Yet, based on those three edits, I was given a 30-day topic ban.
I believe that my ban was unjust and did not follow the spirit of Wikipedia:Sanctions against editors should not be punitive:
Consistency in sanctions
It is interesting that Nishidani--who brought most of the complaints against me and my editing--received an 8-hour block for Disruption by revert-warring and breach of three-revert rule; two months later a 24-hour block for Three-revert rule violation; and just two months after that a 72-hour block for Edit warring, yet I received a 30-day topic ban for allowable edits at best, and questionable at worst.
Because I have virtually no interest in editing on Wikipedia other than in articles that tend to fall under the Arab-Israeli conflict, a 30-day topic ban is tantamount to a 30-day block.
Based on all of the above, I formally request a complete reversal of my sanction (even if the sanctioned time elapses).
Thank you. KamelTebaast 00:00, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
- @The Blade of the Northern Lights: and @The Wordsmith: your general accusations about my "attacks above" and "series of attacks and aspersions on fellow editors" is, again, indicative of my criticism of Wikipedia (above), particularly by not writing about specifics. In order for me to learn, could you please be specific as to what I wrote that is unacceptable and link it to a specific policy. Otherwise, I can only learn through the actions of other editors and administrators. For instance, when Malik Shabazz referred here to another editor, Brad Dyer, as "Jewboy" and "one of the dozens of pro-Israel single-purpose accounts that plague Wikipedia", and he called another administrator, Chillum, a "jackass", yet virtually nothing was done to him. So I'm very interested in learning what I wrote above that is worthy of a 90-day extension, when in comparison to M. Shabazz, who I think was given a one week block that I believe was reduced to one day?
- Regarding my editing in the Arab-Israeli Conflict area, I heed your warnings and I will edit with added caution. If not, there are checks and balances, and you have the tools to instantly block or ban me, so your suggested 90-day additional ban-time seems draconian, but unfortunately not surprising. KamelTebaast 23:57, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
References
- ^ Joseph Gutmann (1997). "Beth Alpha". In E. M. Meyers (ed.). The Oxford Encyclopedia of Archaeology in the Near East. p. 299.
- ^ http://www.weeklystandard.com/arafats-true-legacy/article/6127
- ^ http://www.history.co.uk/biographies/yasser-arafat
Statement by Lord Roem
It should be noted that the sanction expires on Tuesday (it was only for one month). It was imposed after a disruptive series of edits; the sanction was and still is proportional to a first-level remedy. The appeal should be rejected. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 02:52, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000
Kemal Tebaast thinks that the way to appeal a sanction is to attack other editors.
At Beit Alfa, a fairly minor dispute it must be said, Kemal's main objective was to remove the statement that the Kibbutz was named after the Arab village. See the talk page section "Kibbutz Beit Alpha was not named after an Arab village" that he/she created.
On Yasser Arafat, it is obvious that someone who wants to repeatedly add text like "people worldwide have described him as an unrepentant terrorist because of his decades of violence, aimed mostly at civilians" is a problem for the project. The presence of unacceptable text in an article has never been an excuse for adding more unacceptable text, but that is the only argument I see here. Zerotalk 02:08, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Malik Shabazz
I can only echo what Zero0000 has written and wonder what Kemal Tebaast is thinking when her/his "appeal" consists mostly of attacks on other editors.
Has Kemal Tebaast still not learned that copy-editing a sentence is not a revert, no matter how many times she/he and her/his best buddy call it one? Perhaps reading WP:Reverting might help. Or maybe not.
Evidently Kemal Tebaast also cannot see the log in her/his own eye and recognize her/his own POV-pushing in saying that a group "accuses Israel of 'genocide'" when it made no such accusation. (Yes, Kemal Tebaast, that sort of exaggeration is called hyperbole, and your sentence was a "hyperbolic addition".) As I wrote, in accordance with both the facts and NPOV, the group "use[d] the word 'genocide' to describe Israel's treatment of the Palestinians".
Needless to say, I think this appeal should be rejected. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:22, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 3)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Kamel Tebaast
Result of the appeal by Kamel Tebaast
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- A massive tl;dr wall of text laced with attacks on other editors... agreed this should be declined with a very firm warning that attacks like those above will rapidly lead to blocks. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:36, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
- Given the fact that the appeal contains no acknowledgement that Kamel did anything wrong (they did) and consists of a series of attacks and aspersions on fellow editors, I'm inclined to not only decline this appeal but also extend it to an additional 90 days. Bans are intended to be preventative, and Kamel gives every indication that when the ban expires they intend to continue disrupting as before. I believe a longer restriction is necessary to prevent tendentious editing in this topic area. The WordsmithTalk to me 00:32, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by SashiRolls
Appeal declined. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:47, 12 September 2016 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by SashiRollsOn 01/09/2016, Tryptofish asked for Arbitration Enforcement against me because 1) I deleted an article that s/he claimed supported the contention that Jill Stein had made statements that were "contrary to science". The article does not support this claim, but notes that Jordan Weissmann (a business and economics editor), author of "an opinion piece at Slate[,] dismissed Green Party candidate Jill Stein as “a Harvard-trained physician who panders to pseudoscience” concerning genetically modified organisms, pesticides, “quack medicine,” and vaccine efficacy." This is the only sentence in the article pertaining to Stein, and so -- in my view -- should not be added as a separate indictment since the text (quoted in full above) is hardly a recommendation of the article by Mr. Weissmann and takes no explicit position on Jill Stein's positions (though the language suggests the author does not concur with Weissmann. Farther down in his complaint, Tryptofish accuses me of inserting a "disparaging remark" about Jordan Weissmann in the Wikipedia article, referencing the text: "Weissmann subsequently wrote a retraction of one part of his article related to the effects of pesticides on honeybee populations."[1] I do not see how this could be disparaging, as both the title and the content of the article indicate that Weissmann (a business and economics editor) is making a retraction of a significant error about science in his original article. Next, I was called out for 2) changing the name of a reference from :03 to WaPoArticleCitedSixteenTimes and waiting for a bot to come correct the other 15 references to the article. I plead guilty and apologize for the error of judgment. An editor quickly objected to this change so I changed all sixteen references to avoid links becoming unavailable. Waiting for the bot was a regrettable technical mistake, as was the polemical name I chose for the over-cited reference. The legitimate point on the oversourcing of the article to half-quotes from the Washington Post interview the day after it appeared (a move which was criticized here, here, here, here, and here) got lost in the process. The error I made was made shortly after I had to revert Tryptofish's non-constructive edit diff in the science section, an attempt to discredit Jill Stein's peer-reviewed published views on science in the preceding sentence, which subsequent to my ban from the topic Tryptofish removed. I admit that my view of legitimate editing behavior was influenced by my accuser (Tryptofish's) addition of this (IMO unhelpful) citation for the section "science":
Nevertheless, my error was an error, despite the fact that it was motivated by frustration with the inappropriate behavior of two other users. Three wrongs don't make a right, I concede. Finally, Tryptofish accused me of 3) slow edit-warring, adducing as evidence two reversions (which are reversions of reversions made by Snooganssnoogans) on a subject that AndrewOne suggested (correctly in my view) needed urgent correction and contextualization here and here. Since Snooganssnoogans continued to ignore the sensible call for balancing perspective, I read all of the source material provided by AndrewOne, found another article from a source that Snooganssnoogans had previously argued was an RS in an effort to address the neutrality problems in this section (cf. non-neutral POV tag added to the section on 31 Aug (diff)). The editor objects to information being added from Forbes, the Atlantic, the Roosevelt Institute, and Yes! magazine here to provide context concerning the economic argument about quantitative easing, and has used the Arbitration Enforcement discussion (concerned primarily with Tryptofish's distracting actions in the GMO section of the article) to delete this balancing information suggested by AndrewOne, but which only I was "bold" enough to add (here), given the polemical atmosphere that has been created by Snooganssnoogans' 30+ reverts in the last two months. This will be the subject of a separate call for disciplinary sanctions against Snooganssnoogans (see context I deleted [9] to show Lord Roem good faith). I would like to complete my appeal by noting a few procedural elements related to this disproportionate 6-month topic ban. First, two administrators (Laser brain and NeilN) spoke of possibly warning me, the former saying that my behavior did not rise to the level of sanctions (calling the actual motivation for bringing me to DS (GMO) a "red herring"), and the second stating that any warning should mention 1RR. (NB: the administrators had not yet looked into the context of Snooganssnoogans' consistent pattern of edit-warring since mid-July). I asked to be given until the 5th of September 5pm to formulate my defense. However, NuclearWarfare chose to go well beyond their suggestions and sanctioned me for 6 months on the 4th of September, before I could finish formulating my defense. I subsequently asked NuclearWarfare (on the 7th of September) to explain the grounds for his/her decision here, but as of the 10th of September I have not received any acknowledgment of my request. Based only on what s/he wrote in the decision, his/her concern was with my contention that the Washington Post article was being given undue weight on Jill Stein's WP:BLP, saying that I "just didn't get it", concerning this specific reversion concerning NPOV and RS. It is worth noting that I was reverting an entire paragraph that had been deleted by Snooganssnoogans, and not just a single reference to the sources that NW considers partial (articles written by Kevin Gostola and Peter Lavenia). Articles appearing in Al Jazeera, Democracy Now! and the Free & Equal Elections Foundation were also deleted, as well as any reference to Media Coverage / Media Access. It would seem logical that if an editor has a problem with a reference to an article published in Counterpunch or Shadowproof that they should eliminate the sentence that cites those sources (only) rather than all of the surrounding material unrelated to these sources. It is certainly not narrow POV-pushing to note that a major and widely reported concern of Jill Stein's is that she does not have equal media access. Concerning the bias of the Washington Post (which is the subject of contention), it is worth noting that there have been numerous claims related to its bias, some of the (older) sources of which have been included on Wikipedia (Cf. The Washington Post#2000-present), though not yet the newest claims / evidence, including the article from the independent Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting about 16 negative stories on Bernie Sanders in 16 hours on March 8, 2016. [3]. Finally I would note that I have never before been accused of any inappropriate behavior on Wikipedia, which is not the case for either Tryptofish (who brought the complaint), or for Snooganssnoogans (who has been WP:Bludgeoning the process at Jill Stein for over two months (preventing over a dozen editors from balancing the POV s/he is pushing) and engaging in edit wars elsewhere... cf. the warnings from 22 May, 5 June, 30 June, 18 July, 20 Aug, 27 Aug, 28 Aug, 30 Aug on the user's Talk Page here.) References
Statement by NuclearWarfareStatement by NeutralityI would strongly urge that this appeal not be granted. For brevity's sake, I note only a few points:
--Neutralitytalk 16:52, 10 September 2016 (UTC) Statement by TryptofishThis request is without merit. Almost all of the request completely misrepresents the facts, and it is fundamentally a demonstration of unwillingness or inability to understand SashiRolls' own misconduct that resulted in the sanction in the first place. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:44, 10 September 2016 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by SashiRollsResult of the appeal by SashiRolls
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