Talk:Khattar (surname)

(greetings)

i m sardar faheem from pindsaral attock i m also belong to tribe of khattar

Vandal edit by ip 119.153.68.44

This anonymous ip has deliberately corrupted referenced content on 16th March 2009
Intothefire (talk) 17:17, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I m Sardar Azhar Abbas Khan from Thatta. thank you so much Sardar Saab for beautifull writeup.....

Vandal Edit

87.88.167.220 has vandal edited cited content on 30 May 2010 .
Intothefire (talk)

Vandal Edit

217.42.182.130 has corrupted cited content on 20th November 2009]
Intothefire (talk) 05:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Vandal Edits

119.153.68.44

217.42.182.130

142.157.218.17

87.88.167.220 bogus citations

87.88.167.220 bogus citations
Intothefire (talk) 06:06, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Referenced content repeatedly vandled from this article

“ The Khattars are generally credited with a Hindu origin,from Khatris but they are divided in belief as to their descent .Some admit Hindu origin , while those who deny it claim an Arab descent , alleging they are closely connected with Awans . ”

“ Inorder to meet the generally accepted belief that they were originally Hindus , even those who claim a Mussalman origin admit that while at Bagh Nilab they became Hindus and were reconverted . ”

“ Khattar wedding rites used to closely resemble those of Hindus , Brahmans even being present , but they are now solmnised according to strict Muhammadan rules . ”

Intothefire (talk) 05:31, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Request for Template:Edit Semi-Protectected

Dear Editors, I am requesting semi-protection for this article as in my experience, at various times people (prob belonging to some of the prominent families of this tribe) keep on adding various 'vanity' items to it and changing it, by inserting either unverifiable data or long lists and family trees. Thanks Khani100 (talk) 06:06, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

If it continues to be a problem, I suggest you either contact an Admin directly, or bring up the issue on the Dicussion tabs at WP:WikiProject India, WP:WikiProject Pakistan, or ideally both. In the meantime, thanks for your good work maintaining the article. MatthewVanitas (talk) 20:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Dear MatthewVanitas, thank you for your kind support; am sorry for not being able to contact/respond earlier. I think it might indeed be necessary to bring up the issue at WP:WikiProject India and WP:WikiProject Pakistan, both, as some people are again adding unsubstantiated and self-promoting material and only today I found a whole section on 'Khattars in Afghanistan' which I have now removed. If worst comes to worst (and I would like if we could develop a good article via a sensible attitude rather than some sort of inflated 'tribalism') then Admin will unfortunately have to be contacted. Its v tiresome, am sorry to say, to try to sort out and organise and edit an article and come back and find that its suffered negative attentions-- again. This seems to be most common w ref to articles concerning Pakistani tribes/clans, for the simple reason that people from these read something that they dont like/agree with even though its verifiable fact, and then want to add their own version/s-- which wouldnt be bad actually if (a) this/these were properly verifiable/substantiated and (b) if they were written with some basic semblance of order and attention to writing and grammar etc. Unfortunately, by now this article (for example) is in rather a jumble and will take me indefintely long to give it form and shape again, to the detriment of other articles. Khani100 (talk) 10:32, 4 December 2011 (UTC)Khani100

To request protection of this page you need to make a post at WP:RFPP, the template you used is for requesting edits to already protected pages--Jac16888 ^Talk 12:05, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Dear User:Jac1688, thank you! I just realised this and have made an appropriate request. Thank you, Khani100 (talk) 12:09, 4 December 2011 (UTC)Khani100

Dispute

Dear Brother Selam! i am a Pushtun/khattar and my family is living in the Northern Afghanistan since Centuries ! Its not just my family but a Tribe of khattar's is spread over the northern border of Afghanistan and many other places within the Afghan region. Therefore the changes made last time were by me, as i read this biography of Khattar's. i dont have any books from which i can refer what i wrote but all the data that i had provided was a fact and has been delivered to me; by my ancestors via my Parents. We've been taught all our life that a bulk of Khattar's from the tribe; Several centuries back left Afghanistan to fight the Hindo's in the subcontinent(today Pakistan) and that's how it was edited. I hope u accept the changes! thankyou I hope You dont deny the Fact that a large number of Khattar's still reside in the European regions where they moved first and many still reside in the Khorasan Region!

07/12/2011 Selamwaleykum brother ! many thanks for the reply. i would like to refer the the first paragraph from the "Origins", "one is they are Non-Fatimid Arabs, descended from Ali, cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, and thus an Arab tribe that entered in Spain with Tariq Bin Ziyad. The supposed head of the tribe, Abu Al-Khataar was supposedly a popular governor of al-Andalusia, Spain. After the downfall of the Moorish government in Spain, the tribe claims to have left it and moved to Turkey, ("Iran, Afghanistan"), India and north west of Pakistan. "

As far as the history of the tribe discussed among the elders of Khattar's in The Afghan region, it is claimed that the Khatatrs came from Arab to Spain and after the downfall of the empire they moved to turkey and Afghanistan/Iran and Then later They had move to North-West of Pakistan i.e. a vast number of Khattar's settled in Pakistan after a war. in the first Paragraph of the "origins" it is similar to what i know and people here. well as u have quoted Nawab Sahib From British India; they have had moved from Afghanistan towards later so called British India(first it wasn't British-India). and yes my Brother for Your Information Khattar's Still are in Afghanistan And Always will Insha'Allah!

Objection to this History was just that it only discusses Khattar's in India and Pakistan whilst many still living in the regions They Came from to these areas. as the first Line says:

                      (Khattar (Urdu: کھتر ) is an upper caste tribe in Pakistani and Indian Punjab, and is variously classified as Rajput and Jatt in Pakistan and as a Jatt and Khatri caste in India.)

this clearly deny's the fact that Khattar's are no where else but only In the panjab of Pakistan and India while their roots are Forgotten.

"Nationalism" is not allowed in Islam brother but it brings differences in the Humanity. but the History of one's self should be well-known. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.83.1.244 (talk) 09:20, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Khattars in Afghanistan

Dear unknown brother, many salams to you too! Let me please quote from Priestley's translation of Nawab Muhammad Hayat Khan's "Hayat i Afghan" (orig. 1865, trans. 1874 in Eng, pp.V-VI of the Author's original Persian preface)for your edification, as Nawab Sahib (d.1901) was one of the elders/chiefs of the Khattar tribe in Punjab, British India: "My family has long associations with Afghanistan and the Afghan Frontier; my own mother was a Tahir kheli Pathan [sic] whilst many of my own people [i.e. Khattars] have been settled there as traders and merchants since the days of the Mughal empire, carrying on an extensive trade in many goods, even as far as Balkh and Bukhara". One of the earliest District Gazeteers of the Rawalpindi and Attock districts, c.1868, also informs us that (a) many Khattars from Attock, Rawalpindi, and further down south from Bhakkhar and Muzaffargarh, both Muslims and Hindus, were very active in trade on the North-West Frontier and Afghanistan and (b) a fairly sizeable community of them of both religious persuasions had also settled in various parts of Afghanistan, too, and spoke Pushtu/Pukhtu and passed off as Afghans/Pukhtuns. Possibly, this might help explain the presence of the Khattars in Afghanistan, if there are any still there?

Im sorry, but all the evidence Ive seen so far points out to a local, indigenous Indian origins for the Khattars, and I have given a fair amount of information, references and citations from various sources. Im very sorry, too, that you felt that to justify your point of view you had to remove many of these citations/refs, which Id worked very hard on. 
Also, Im sorry to say that to the best of my knowledge, there were historically never any 'Khattars' (pronounced with the hard South Asian 'T') in Europe-- and that this erroneous belief arose out of a mispronunciation of [al]'Khataar' (soft Semitic 't'), probably a Berber tribe which inhabited Andalusia at one time. If you please read the article again, carefully, youll note that I have refered to Prof Philip K Hitti on the 'Khataar's and this view is also supported by another of your Khattar elders, late Sardar Shaukat Hayat Khan (1915-1998), also cited. 
If you want, I can dig up the earliest Khattar pedigrees/geneaologies as recited and old to Col. Gracroft by Mullah Sarwar, family geneaologist to Nawab (then Sardar) Muhammad Hayat Khan, as recorded in his report-- which also shows that until the 19th century, the Khattars like their kinfolk, the Ghebas, Jodhras, Janjuas, Tiwanas etc, also accepted their Rajput/Jat origins and it wasnt until much later (as posited by Prof Dr Iftikhar H Malik, also cited)that around the early or mid 20th century, a rather different account developed, due to 'political' reasons.

) It seems our respective positions are quite far apart as to the Khattar origins. What is to be done now, please?

Khani100 (talk) 13:54, 5 December 2011 (UTC)Khani100

What I would strongly suggest is, please, that if you are agreeable, in order to reconcile matters, and to arrive at some acceptable resolution, we refer this article to the editors/neutral folk, here on Wikipedia? Khani100 (talk) 13:57, 5 December 2011 (UTC)Khani100

Notice

Dear Wikipedia Editors, someone from an IP address, is still persistently adding unverifiable material and not responding to any requests for discussion/dispute resolution. What is to be done now, please? I am going to remove the new contentious material. Khani100 (talk) 16:28, 5 December 2011 (UTC)Khani100

If an IP user is consistently removing cited information without discussion, there are two main options. You can place a warning template on the IP user's page, and if the user continues to edit-war, an administrator may block them. The second option is requesting page protection, specifically semi-protection. Semi-protection means that for a variable length of time, the article is locked from being edited by anonymous IP users. The place to do this is WP:RPP, which includes instructions for adding a new request. JanetteDoe (talk) 22:27, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Spelling of 'Khattar' in Urdu

Excuse me please, but according to my limited knowledge the spelling of 'Khattar' in Urdu is given wrongly. Should be 'Khattar' with a hard T (as in Tiger, Urdu Ttay) not 'Khataar' with soft t (eg as in 'Italiano', Urdu te). I would pl request correction. 39.54.121.219 (talk) 03:19, 11 March 2012 (UTC)Dr HP Gupta

Conflicting viewpoints

• There should be no problem accepting the existence of Khattars among Muslim , Sikh and Hindu :Punjabis , Hindkowans , Pashtuns , Seraikis .
• The cloak of religion while important is not the singular element in a community's historical collective consciousness of itself and therefore Hindu/Sikh Khattar self knowledge of descent from ancestors from what are now geographically " exclusively Muslim " countries or areas does not clash with Muslim Khattars assertion of being Punjabi/Multani/Pashtun/Hindkowan/ .Its no different from the fact that Saudi Arabia had a massive population of Jews and Christians in pre-islamic times and many tribes and people of non Muslim denomination have roots in that area .
• Therefore while the information provided by editors on origin may seem conflicting , look carefully it there are are critical threads of commonality .
• Aggressive deletion of content is only indicative of

a) Arrogance of a particular editor ( really indicative of ignorance "of the other" , although there may be mastery of only his/her own known circle of sources)

b) Denial of another perspective

c) Overindulgence/misuse of Wikipedia rules to strip away the spirit of sharing knowledge

d Sheer desire to dominate discourse ( really nothing to do then with extending the borders of knowledge )

Intothefire (talk) 06:23, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Your continued refusal to follow WP:AGF and your continued personal attacks on other editors have just got you a 1 week block. See my further message on your Talk page. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:24, 11 March 2012 (UTC)