Talk:Conscientious objector

Recognition of conscientious objector status

Currently, conscientious objector status is recognized in both the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the European Convention on Human Rights.

I think this sentence is misleading:

• There is no explicit text in the Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights anent recognition of this status.
• The ECHR [1] states only (my emphasis):

Article 4 – Prohibition of slavery and forced labour

1. No one shall be held in slavery or servitude.
2. No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour.
3. For the purpose of this article the term "forced or compulsory labour" shall not include:
   1. any work required to be done in the ordinary course of detention imposed according to the provisions of Article 5 of this Convention or during conditional release from such detention;
   2. any service of a military character or, in case of conscientious objectors in countries where they are recognised, service exacted instead of compulsory military service;
   3. any service exacted in case of an emergency or calamity threatening the life or well-being of the community;
   4. any work or service which forms part of normal civic obligations.

I'll remove the sentence altogether, if there are no objections. (There is no use of saying "In the countries where this status is recognized, the ECHR...") --Glimz 13:42, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)

Categories?

When I did the merge for this page I was uncertain as to what category to place it in. There are none at the moment and I believe that a category or categories should be added.

--pgeoff 00:26, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

I have seen several requests on articles in Category:Military to clean up because there are 50 sub-categories and 50 articles in there ... I created Category "Politics about Military" to group topics like Military use of children, how people get drafted into the military, gender roles in the military, and related topics. This will still be in category military, through the new sub-category. AlMac|^(talk) 16:59, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Peace Symbols are not appropriate for this page

The Peace Symbol is actually the ancient Norse sign for death. Today it serves to represent a movement of people who have varied interests but gather under the umbrella of the peace sign, e.g. animal rights, environmentalists, etc. I cannot find any reference on the Internet to anyone that is a Conscientious Objector as accepting this sign to signify an individual. Please keep politics off this page, real Connscientious Objectors such as me find this offensive.

Conscientious Objectors are not the Peace Movement

This page should not become the yellow pages for the current Peace Movement. A Conscientious Objector is an individual choice of conscience and is far different than being a member of a movement or simply anti-war. While there are groups that claim to be Pacifist, this does not mean they are Conscientious Objectors. For example, several Conscientious Objectors do and have served in the military. I am formally against this page becoming a listing for persons promoting the peace movement against current or future wars. There are other pages for this. Please list organizations that are not strictly Conscientious Objector organizations (e.g. C.C.C.O.) on an anti-war page.

I agree there is a difference. I haven't removed anything, but I added a link to the Peace movement. --GwydionM 17:59, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Removal of text?

Whose idea was it to remove over half of the text in the article? I've salvaged the most important bits about conscientious objection in different countries and moved it to another article. Is this some kind of censorship, or just an attempt to keep the article at a manageable size? 193.167.132.66 08:59, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, that's me, User:JIP. Wikipedia accidentally signed me out, again. — JIP | Talk 09:00, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It seems like vandalism or censorship to me. 207.67.132.123

America

How is it that there is so much from the US on this, and so little on elsewhere? Looks like a perfect school project to me, if someone wanted to do it. I don't know enough specifics, but I do know it was made very hard to be a CO in WW1 in Britain, with hard labour in appalling conditions that killed many. During WW2, they tended to be paramedics (the law was changed after people realised how awful WW1 was), as it put them in at least equal danger. There must be a lot on this. The US stuff was interesting, and I'm sure there must be someone looking for a project....16:59, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Ask me, I could help about the Swiss situation :) --Keimzelle 22:28, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Only military?

Have a look at William Tebb - the assertion in the BMJ that the term was introduced into English law as a result of arguments over vaccination seems likely to be true.

Did the rest of the world follow on, or evolve the concept and laws about it independently?Midgley 18:45, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Added a subsection for Britain

The article was mostly about US experience. What happened in Britain was rather different. --GwydionM 18:48, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

• There already exists an article on conscientious objection throughout the world. Should material be split off into it, or it merged to the whole? --Agamemnon2 18:52, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. I'd missed it, so I added a cross-link. Someone else immediately removed it. There is a standard for cross-links, isn't there?

What's really needed is a complete re-edit. The topic in general, and then specifics for each juristiction. Not just states; Britain and Ireland had different rules in World War One.

I'm also not going to do anything so big. An opportunity for someone, though.

--GwydionM 18:29, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I've now added extra material to conscientious objection throughout the world. --GwydionM 10:35, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Religious motives

I added some historic background. Christian pacifism may be a minority option nowadays, but it was the original creed.

Exactly how it applied to legionaries is unclear. The martyrdom of the Theban Legion may have been because they refused to take part in pagan sacrefices. The whole event may also be fictitious, a 'pious legend'.

--GwydionM 10:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC)