User talk:Jimbo Wales

Nonsensical e-mail spammer.

I've been getting 2-3 e-mail messages a day from someone who appears to have a problem with an user, and is trying to make me promise to call you (like I've got your phone number or something) and make you block said person. I've tried to no avail to get them to explain precisely what their problem is so that I can try to look for solutions, but they ignore my requests and respond with such things as, "whats rollbac feature.how does it work who can get it.do u? do u know pal who is administratr" and "i need somebody to tell wales you can call, if nobody there leave message and your user name" and "do u know good pal adm r u ready2call jimbo?he s waitin4third party confirmation.whats your urername?call2do now."

I have no idea why I'm the lucky one... I've hardly edited in the last year... at one time I was active enough that I wouldn't have been surprised to be mistaken for an admin, but not any more. I wouldn't mind trying to help this person, but they give no information, just ask me to call you. I see in the message above mine that someone else seems to be having similar problems. Would you like me to forward the e-mails? ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 23:51, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Let me go way out on a limb here and guess ... it's an evildoer named Antandrus that needs to be blocked? Antandrus (talk) 01:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Umm, nope. Not you. Seems to be User:MKil. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 02:59, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Yep, he pretty much hates me. We tangled on the Rocky Marciano page when I was trying to clean it up in January of 2007. He's been harassing me ever since. Threatening e-mails, messages left by a variety of "different" people on my talk page, etc. All his usual garbage. Can't something be done about him?MKil (talk) 14:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)MKil

Sounds like the same guy I have had dealings with. Seems like he gets around. I recommend you save any EMAIL's or messages left. I save all mine offline. Mine started when I attempted to be an administrator, didn't get the bit but I got a sort of pen pal out of it. See my post about Newblock above.--Kumioko (talk) 16:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The above reply is third party reply, as I also tried to resolve the problems, including mkil privacy, just go on mkil talkpage history http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MKil&action=history and see how he has no respect for names, boxingwear had respect for his name on his talkpage even though mkil did not deserve. Keep in mind, mkil and antandrus are ongoing problems, and as it says below it's only beginning, will not go away until those two are blocked forever,

its also costing wikipedia money and face...(whatever is left of it) antandrus' job as administrator is to make sure nobody breaks rules, instead they provoke people, over here you will find more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=215830039&oldid=215829811

Innocent users get suspended when they try to help boxingwear, so third party is a must, but then again there are people like antandrus who will do all they can to justify themselves correct only-100%fact Hey, check administrators talk page, its even there, provocing people is not what wikipedia should be all about

Users banned for psychological illness, but who are now cured

Hello Mr Wales. What is the policy with regard to someone who was disruptive due to a psychological disorder, that got them banned, but now that they are officially on medication and are better, would like to return? Can a softer line be taken with them in letting them back, since they weren't fully aware/responsible of their actions when they were under the influence of their disorder? Thanks. 78.146.252.52 (talk) 10:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I am generally in favor of forgiveness and second chances for anyone, for whatever the reason. The important thing is always the future, not the past.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to second that. This is a very forgiving community toward people who are genuinely sorry for problems they've caused and want to reform, whether because of illness or anything else. SlimVirgin ^talk|edits 16:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see this and compare the IPs before even considering unbanning. Jimbo, if you are going to consider the past unimportant here you will at the same time be considering the time invested in this by checkusers and editors like me and many others unimportant. There are people who are banned for very good reasons. They should stay banned for the same reasons. EconomicsGuy (talk) 16:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think, from Jimbo's post above, we can infer that he plans to unban anyone. The concept is that people aren't banned for past bad conduct - they are banned to prevent future bad conduct. If the chances of future bad conduct are low, for whatever reason that we can have some reasonable confidence in, then an unban should be at least considered. In this particular case I'd say the person behind these accounts and IPs would have to make some extraordinarily convincing argument for this latest explanation/plea to result in unbanning. Avruch ^T 16:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest sending the info on the illness confidentially to either Jimbo or Arbcom. Zginder 2008-05-29T17:34Z (UTC)

Thank you for the replies. I might as well post the illness here, since it has already been spread all over wikipedia and wikipedia review. The disorder was Body Dysmorphic Disorder, a disorder which causes extreme moodswings, hyperdepression, constant attention seeking for comfort, etc. If the community feels uncomfortable with a complete unban, could a trial, with restrictions be somewhat of a compromise? 78.146.252.52 (talk) 18:00, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I was not making any recommendation about the case in question, just trying to answer about the general principle. I agree as well with EconomicsGuy when he says that some people are banned for good reasons and should stay banned for those reasons. At the same time, when we see signs of a genuine change of heart, we can offer a gesture of goodwill. It is easy enough to reban if it doesn't work out.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough Jimbo. If the community is willing to unban and we can work out some restrictions and we have your support for rebanning without the usual bureaucracy I'll support that we investigate the options avaliable to us for rehabilitating this user. Ít needs to be an open community discussion though as a lot of users here were affected by this user's disruption. He caused a massive rangeblock of some 200.000 IPs (basically a substantial part of his ISP) when he was creating socks at a rate of 10 new accounts per hour on different IPs. Add to this his repeated unwillingness to accept consensus and warnings and I hope you will understand my concerns. I trust you Jimbo and if you think a solution can be worked out here then I won't stand in the way of letting the community work out an arrangement. EconomicsGuy (talk) 06:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Not all of those accounts were made by me. As I said before, some of them were made by people I know, while others, I have no idea who they were, or how they ended up being labelled as me, but yes, apart from that, I did make lots of other accounts to cause disruption. However, I do accept full responsibility for my actions, and I know that what I did was wrong - if I was in a clear frame of mind at the time, I wouldn't have done it, but I wasn't able to see clearly then, since my disorder caused me to keep constantly attention-seeking, and to have hyper-sensitivity, which is why I reacted so badly to some comments by some users.

Yes, unfortunately, there are users who won't be prepared to forgive me. However, over time, I have been appologizing to several people I have been involved with, personally by email, including User:Jeffpw (my old mentor), User:Philippe (from the election committee), and User:SteveBaker (someone who I got into conflict with when I was first here) etc, and they seemed to be understanding. I have tried sending appologies to Arbcom several times, but without even a reply.

With regard to me being unable to accept consensus, I think you are referring to the time when I originally created this page: GHD (the hair styling brand), and people kept telling me it wasn't notable. I wasn't familiar with the system here then, and even though I knew it was notable, I wasn't able to find sources to prove this. I kept arguing against its deletion, since I knew it was notable, and it wasn't until someone else found sources, that it was removed from being deleted. Now that I am quite experienced with all the procedures, I understand about WP:OR, WP:NPOV, WP:CIVIL, etc; something which I was not benefitted with before.

Before anything else is discussed, I would like people to know that shortly after I was banned here, I went over to Simple Wikipedia, and soon after, was shortly made indefinitely blocked (for similar reasons as I was banned here). I am stating this now, so that everything is out in the open, but I would like to add that since I was only cured of my disorder after I had been blocked at both Simple and here, it shouldn't really change this case.

With regards to unbanning me, I will respect anything that Mr Wales tells/advises me. I have been trying to request for unban for around six months now, and yes, along the way, I have made sockpuppets, and even though they were editing constructively, I know this was still wrong, since it was evading my ban. I hope that if you have read my ArbCom appeals, you will understand how sorry I am, and I just can't appologize enough for everything, but I have been told several times by one user (at simple wikipedia) that my appologies are worthless, so I won't place a massive 1000 word appology up here. I am sorry though, to everyone whose time I wasted, and to the project itself, for wasting its checkuser resources, and damaging it. 78.146.227.27 (talk) 08:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

To be fair to you; no you were not (entirely) responsible for what happened on Simple Wikipedia. That needs to be said. I can vouch for the fact that you can make good edits. You are not a bad editor which is why I became increasingly upset with you because you were wasting your potential on fighting a war rather than focus on being a good editor. This still needs to be discussed with the rest of the community though. No more arguing about things that are the way they are for a reason and no more socking okay? If we can agree on this then 6 months is time served in my opinion. A lot of people will be watching you though so some kind of mentoring might be a good idea possibly with some restrictions for some time. EconomicsGuy (talk) 11:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree to any conditions that may be imposed on me, of course. 78.149.186.121 (talk) 13:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay then let's hear what others have to say including Jimbo when he has the time to consider the above. We still need an admin who is willing to unblock and a debate about the terms so this will need to go on AN soon. I don't think Jimbo's talk page is the place to have that debate. EconomicsGuy (talk) 14:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I'm an administrator on the Simple English Wikipedia, and I've dealt with Benniguy/Iamandrewrice a lot over the past few months, and we've faced many problems since he's been "cured". Just over the past few days we've had hundreds of sockpuppets created attacking our users, and personally I'm certain it's him and his friends. If possible, could we get your CheckUsers talking with ours to discuss the IP information (and how it matches up with everything else)? They would probably be able to give you the best answers on what they most likely did/didn't do. Archer7 (talk) 16:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

In response to the above, I believe what Archer is talking about is the mass of accounts that has been created there lately. I have no objection to a checkuser, since those accounts are NOT mine. I do however know who they belong to, but that is irrelevant, as her actions have nothing to do with mine.

Please note, this is not the first time that other users have impersonated me. I once tried to make an account at French wikipedia, and look what I found: [1]. The account had one contribution, and it was to "Kent", the county where I live, meaning that the person who was impersonating me obviously knew information about me, and the name coincidence was not just be chance. Thanks. 78.149.186.121 (talk) 17:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Archer I think it might be faster for you to look at the bottom of the checkuser case on Iamandrewrice. The IP ranges known to be them are noted there. Alison is the checkuser here who is familiar with this case. EconomicsGuy (talk) 17:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I'm not a CheckUser, I have no IP or client info whatsoever, but users like simple:User:Creol or simple:User:Eptalon have dealt with this user before and have more knowledge than anyone else really on who edits from what etc, so might be able to talk to your CUs a little more openly. Just an idea... Archer7 (talk) 17:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I think the best thing for them to do is e-mail Alison and ask her if she has any relevant information to share with your checkusers. EconomicsGuy (talk) 17:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

As I said, I don't object to the checkuser.

Additionally, I would like to add something. Among the recent mass of accounts being created at Simple, was a collection of "IUseRosary2", "IUseRosary3", etc, which are impersonations of IUseRosary (someone who people know I am friends with in real life).

These accounts then went to the Requests for Admin page, and put IUseRosary up for adminship. Some users at simple then went on to say that they believed the set of IUseRosarys to be sockpuppets of either IUseRosary or myself.

We find this an utterly bizzare claim, since there would be no apparent reason in making a username so obviously alike to IUseRosary and putting him up for adminship, unless we wanted to get found out, and by all logic, this would of course not be true.

The same is true with the rest of the account creations there, which seem to purposefully do things associated with myself and IUseRosary. For instance, it is well known that both of us have had problems with Gwib (a user there) before, and low and behold, the recent account creations are all aimed at insulting Gwib.

I hope people will not be fooled by this like they were with the original series of sockpuppets created at EN. But a checkuser should clear this up. 78.149.186.121 (talk) 17:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) If this is what we are talking about I don't really see how that points to Iamandrewrice. His IP ranges are well known and unless your checkusers have missed any of them I'll go with assume good faith here. Your checkusers should contact Alison. EconomicsGuy (talk) 17:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

That is part of it, yes. There have also been a rash of other accounts, made in a similar way, and several of them feature profane words. People who have so far encountered me will know that I do not swear, but anyway...

It seems their checkuser (User:Eptalon) is online now. If people wanted to about the IPs used there, they could perhaps enquire there now. Thanks 78.149.186.121 (talk) 17:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Must... avoid.... pointing... to.... Mⁱc_rochip ⁰⁸ 18:05, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

So far no-one has lost their temper or passed any inappropriate remarks. Thanks 78.149.186.121 (talk) 18:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and here's a link to the discussion on Simple. Mⁱc_rochip ⁰⁸ 18:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I have spent a great deal of time speaking with Ben by email over the past couple of weeks, and have expressed to him my very strong belief that this community will tend to be forgiving - in time. I told that I believe the community has not yet healed from the divisions he caused (whether due to a psychological "break" of some type or not, it doesn't change that he hurt people and THEY need to heal). This is a very complex case with massive sockpuppetry and accusations of bad faith: these things don't heal immediately, but they do heal. It is my opinion that he should not yet be unbanned, but I'm personally leaving the door open. - Philippe 18:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

This really should be at WP:AN by now, but I have reason to believe that this editor has recently used an open proxy to out my previous account here. It might not be him but, as I believe EconomicsGuy has mentioned in the past, my ability to assume good faith with this user died a long time ago. He has also bombarded me with PMs on Wikipedia Review, incidentally. Even if that message (on my talk page) was not left by him, it's clear drama follows him around and he openly admits to knowing people in real life who disrupt Wikipedia. We are here to protect the project and if that means some collateral damage, so be it. This user has exhausted the community, and even when he asked the Simple admins/community to let him back, going as far to offering a doctor's note, they refused. Six months is not enough. A year to 18-months, perhaps. George The Dragon (talk) 18:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

"he openly admits to knowing people in real life who disrupt Wikipedia" - Is that somehow my fault?

If I am no longer a threat to the community (since my medication), then it is apparent that the only reason I remain to be banned is punishatitve and not preventative. 78.149.186.121 (talk) 18:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's not up to us to tell you who to associate with in real life, but given they follow you around and cause drama, if the only way of stopping that is by keeping you off wiki, that option has to be considered. Between you and your friends, you've probably created more than 300 socks on here and Simple. It's not on George The Dragon (talk) 18:23, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Sigh... okay I made an effort but this is exactly the sort of thing I was afraid of when I posted my first message on this thread. Clearly there is significant opposition to the unbanning. I support what Phillippe wrote above as well. Are we ready to move this to AN now? EconomicsGuy (talk) 18:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It's unfair that you would ban me just to make sure my friends don't come here.

And anyway, banning me won't have any effect on my "friends" here:

May I draw the attention to: User:Dramaqueen6999 who was here even when I wasn't.

78.149.186.121 (talk) 18:26, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Please take further discussions to the thread at AN George The Dragon (talk) 18:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Good Evening...

...or morning, depending on when (or if) you read this. Just wanted to say hello to you (and every other editor who has this page watchlisted.) - Hello *waves*. Thank god for wikipedia, or I would have nothing to do when work gets slow... ← κεηηε∂γ ^(talk) 13:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Work is still slow, well, i just can't decide whether i want to serve the person waiting, or leave it to my colleague. So instead I thought i would give you my newly created award:

		The WikiHaggis
		I hereby award you the WikiHaggis! This means you are slightly nutty, sorta spicy, and maybe resemble stuffed pig intestines. Pass this WikiHaggis on by putting {{subst:WikiHaggis}} on someone's talk page!

← κεηηε∂γ ^(talk) 13:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Purpose of user discussion page

To All: Please note that this discussion page is meant for suggestion and discussion of improvements that can be made to Jimbo and not to crazy people (or at least crazy people not named Jimbo). --Lemmey talk 22:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

There I've made him bold. Thats better. --Lemmey talk 22:40, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, that was the initial reason for the page. Now it's more of a beehive for crabby IP's and trolls. What a shame. :-( --Koji†Dude ^(C) 23:31, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It has always been a bit of a circus here. I sort of enjoy it. :) And there is often useful stuff in amongst the weirdness. And a lot of nice people!--Jimbo Wales (talk) 01:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

True-er words were never said - and I have to add that I find it problematic that intelligent people like Seth can't seem to accept that people can do things partly because it benefits all mankind and partly because it benefits oneself. Really Seth, must morality be binary? You are smart enough to see that reality is not black and white. WAS 4.250 (talk) 03:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

AHEM!AHEM!AHEM! ... I hate to pull rank, but after more than a decade of involvement in Internet freedom-fighting, which cost me a small fortune and many other personal sacrifices, please consider that I do indeed have a well-formed basis for my views. That is, it's not that I don't understand, but rather that I understand all too well. I'm somewhat constrained from going further, as Jimmy Wales has raised certain concerns, and I've elected not to push the matter too much. -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 09:42, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Unquestionably this is one of the most useful pages on wikipedia. Thanks, SqueakBox 16:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Seth, you are not pulling rank; you are merely offering evidence of your bona fides. If you did that more often, we could call it promotion (a necessary task in capitalism). If you then combined that with a few interesting speeches on freedom (a crowd pleaser in America); instead of costing you money, you could be making money. Doing well by doing good. Why don't you see if Jimbo can hook you up with some friends of his and you can help provide additional leadership to the free culture movement? WAS 4.250 (talk) 20:37, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm admittedly bad at promotion, which is a problem. I did try the leadership route, e.g. see speech on freedom. Unfortunately, by itself, that doesn't pay the rent, buy the food, or get health insurance. It didn't work for me. More deeply, I've ranged myself thoroughly against the way of making money by constructing data-mining systems where a tiny, tiny, elite at the top makes out like bandits while everyone else gets nothing (if nothing else, my sense is that I'm a lot more likely to end up as one of the masses of unpaid laborers who get nothing, rather than as one of the fortunate few). To walk a fine line replying here, while maintaining respect for Jimbo's sensibilities about this page, I suspect he and I don't have much mutual business overlap. However, I want to make the point that I been extensively involved in netroots issues (anti-censorship, software freedom, even changing the world) for many many years, and what I say is in fact from a longstanding cultural "insider" -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 22:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, each to his own. Not every one is cut out to be a free-content rock star. For myself, I like being able to walk down the street and not be bothered by anyone; or dump a girlfriend and not have it make the news. Anyway, for what its worth, I hold you in high regard, Seth. Cheers. WAS 4.250 (talk) 22:46, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Imagine a world

FYI: That stupid old quote of yours is now being translated to Aramaic (Assyrian), currently the 174th biggest language of Wikipedia, see User talk:Chaldean#Re: Translation. --LA2 (talk) 06:15, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Imagine A World, In which every...

Hi. I am the host of the new Radio Wikipedia, a community news radio broadcast. I was wondering whether I could use your voice saying "Imagine a world in which...", in a broadcast. Could I take it from one of your videos. I would like to have an appeal for donations at the end. StewieGriffin! • Talk 12:38, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. StewieGriffin! • Talk 19:32, 31 May 2008 (UTC) You are the best.

Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		You are the creator of Wikipedia a.k.a. my life. Thank You.RETIRED 20:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello Jimmy

On your User Page it clearly states that you and you alone founded Wikipedia, this is not true in fact it is bullshit I think that you are obliged to acknowledge Larry Sanger especially since according to Wikipedia article on you it states you and him are the co-founders of this great project. Wannabe Wiki (talk) 07:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

(Sorry to bump in, Jimbo) Geez, is this really necessary? Singularity 07:02, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

(Re-added above comment which was removed from a different user. :) <3 Tinkleheimer TALK!! 07:39, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

(It is necesary Singularity if that is your real name which i highly doubt) (Thanks Tinkleheimer) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wannabe Wiki (talk • contribs) 07:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Troll. 63.3.15.130 (talk) 07:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)