User talk:Bobby fletcher: Difference between revisions

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We're so glad you're here! —The-thing (Talk) (Stuff I did) 21:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit on my talk page

Are those sites on the main Falun Gong page? Jsw663 04:42, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the pointer and info. This is certainly useful! Jsw663 10:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please, no editing of user pages without the user's express authorization. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsw663 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 01:28, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please read New York Times' coverage of the Shanwei Massacre

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/17/international/asia/17china.html?pagewanted=1 this is the report. I think you ought to read the whole thing. It's quite detailed, and I think that this kind of information may assist you to make more informed decisions about your stance toward certain political entities.--Asdfg12345 00:20, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have only expressed opinion about one political entity - Falun Gong. I'm sorry this report is unrelated to my research on Falun Gong's live organ harvesting allegation.

Based on the fact you have maliciousely 'blanked' and altered my edit, I recommend you examine your own behavior in attacking other editors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting#Disputing_Asdfg12345.27s_alteration_of_other.27s_edits_to_lead_section].

Bobby fletcher (talk) 21:24, 21 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Did you read the article? I would like to hear your thoughts about it. PS: You are right that I should examine my own conduct and attitude. That is very true, and thank you for reminding me. Sometimes I become annoyed with the way you present your arguments. On the other hand, I think it will be fine if you simply add information that can be used for the articles to the talk pages, with a very short, bland note. Please let me know what you think about the Shanwei Massacre.--Asdfg12345 16:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I want to know if you have read that NYT article on the Shanwei massacre. Please tell me if you have or have not read it, and if you have not, please find some time to take a look.--Asdfg12345 01:21, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1) You mean the police responded after the villagers threw molotov cocktails at the police? Here's a report from NPR to that fact:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5056500

"KUHN: A man who answered Jung Guanzhee's home phone in Dongzhou confirmed ... only when attacked by spear-wielding Molotov cocktail-hurling townspeople."

2) Here are more facts of the case:

http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=%FCS%CF%A3%D7%8C&cl=3

http://www.google.com/search?q=%E9%BB%83%E5%B8%8C%E8%AE%93

-the armed police did not show up until the mob attacked the unarmed civilian police

-the mob destroyed a transformer

-the mob trapped the unarmed poice

-the mob leader Huang threaten to "raze the building" where the police were trapped in

-the wind farm in the next village that was damaged had no land acquisation issue

3) The NYT article is incorrect on the compensation amount. It is not a one time payment; all compensations total RMB$12,000,000 per year for about 1500 families, not 30,000 people.

4)Is it human rights to attack police with molotov cocktail? We Americans don't have such rights, why shoud it be any different in China? Rule of law means when the police makes an order, we go home and go to court the next day to find out if it was right. Why should it be any differernt in China?

Bobby fletcher (talk) 06:49, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What about where the police would shoot and injure a villager, then walk to them and shoot them again at close range? Do you have a problem with that?--Asdfg12345 19:01, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

May I also ask whether you have lived in mainland China? I would like to understand what you think about these cases like how Hu Jia's lawyer was arrested, and Hu Jia was arrested, and his wife locked in her house, and their laptop, cel. phone confiscated? Do you acknowledge that the CCP is violating the basic human rights of many of its citizens for the purpose of maintaining political power? --Asdfg12345 23:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am not from Mainland China, nor have I ever been a citizen of the PRC. I have no connection with the Chinese government, as most Americans do not. If you are into Truthfullness, then take a look at the balanced reporting of China.

I have answered many of your question. Can you answer my questions? Is it human rights to throw molotov cocktail at unarmed police?

Bobby fletcher (talk) 08:03, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course not. It's wrong. Using violence against violence is what people do and have done since always, with few exceptions. I can see how you will be against this, but if you are against violence--ie, the villagers throwing the molotov cocktails--aren't you also against the police shooting the villagers from far away then killing them at close range? And all the other things like torturing dissidents and beating them? Just for speaking against the govt.?--Asdfg12345 16:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/6-3-2/38865.html this might be interesting for you. It's a letter by Gao Zhisheng about Hu Jia's disappearance. What do you think?--Asdfg12345 16:29, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's another letter, this is from Guo Feixiong's wife: http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-1-21/64409.html. He isn't guilty of any wrongdoing, but his speaking up for the oppressed is inconvenient for the ruling Party, so they torture him and lock him up. Aren't you disgusted by this?--Asdfg12345 21:25, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any non-Epoch Times link? Epoch Times, I quote, is "piss poor" as reliable source and you have not responded to my debate on reliability of Epoch Times (you archived the discussion, quite dishonestly IMHO.)

Bobby fletcher (talk) 22:33, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But these are open letters, it is just that they have been published in Epoch Times and that's where I saw them. They could have been published anywhere. Epoch Times doesn't have much to do with this. C'mon, that's obvious. I don't know what there is to debate about the reliability of the Epoch Times. I would treat it in the same way as any other primary source for these Falun Gong articles.--Asdfg12345 22:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have you seen them anywhere else? Like major media? I'll ask you again - Do you have any non-Epoch Times link? Epoch Times, I quote, is "piss poor" as reliable source and you have not responded to my debate on reliability of Epoch Times (you archived the discussion, quite dishonestly IMHO.)

Bobby fletcher (talk) 05:24, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm asking you direct and simple questions about your view on basic violations of human rights by the CCP. Why are you avoiding it?--Asdfg12345 13:26, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm asking you a direct, simple, and easily verifiable question weither you have non-Epoch Times link. Why are you avoiding it? I believe I have answered your question in good faith; it is time for you to act truthfully and in kind. Bobby fletcher (talk) 18:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, there's plenty. I will even copy you the text of Guo Feixiong's wife's open letter here, I found this on a non epoch times site: http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2008/report2008-01/GuoFXwife080120BushGletterA331-W175.htm:

郭飞雄妻子张青致美国总统布什先生的公开信

注：郭飞雄先生为魏京生基金会2006年第三届“魏京生中国民主斗士奖”得主。请大家关注他的遭遇，并对他及家人提供道义及其它方面的同情与帮助。

尊敬的总统先生：

您好！

我是中国公民张青。我今天给您写这封信是希望您能伸出援手，援救我的丈夫郭飞雄。

郭飞雄曾是二00六年五月您预定要接见的中国民间人权活动人士之一。在二00六年的四月底，郭飞雄应邀到美国参加一个主题为《宗教信仰与法治》的研讨会。在会议结束后的五月十一日，您在白宫接见了从中国前来参加研讨会的三位人士，我丈夫却因非他个人能控制的原因，没有能参加您在白宫举行的与中国民间人权活动人士的会见。虽然他没能参加这次会见，但他非常赞赏您的这一有著特殊意义的举动，他说，这是美国政府对中国民间人权活动的认同和支持。

郭飞雄是中国活跃的人权人士，曾参与多起中国著名的维权事件，例如太石村农民罢免事件，发起并组织营救维权律师高智晟的声援活动等。为此，他屡遭打压，多次入狱。

二00六年九月十四日，郭飞雄又被捕入狱。政府罗织罪名指控他“非法经营”，说他出版了一本揭露中国政坛腐败的杂志《沈阳政坛地震》。早在二00一年，官方就以这个指控罚款郭飞雄十万元。现在，司法当局又搬出这个莫须有的罪名拘捕了郭飞雄。

在广州第一看守所拘留期间，郭飞雄被连续审讯十三个日夜，被强迫不准睡觉；被手脚穿插、全身弯曲地固定铐在木板床上达四十二天；被戴脚镣一百多天。

最残酷的是，二00七年一月二十日，广州司法当局把我丈夫转押到中国东北城市沈阳。沈阳警方把郭飞雄与死刑犯关押在一起，并对他施行了更加惨无人道的酷刑。

二00七年二月十二日，沈阳警方办案人给郭飞雄戴上黑头套，押到秘密地点暴打；反吊我丈夫的双手长时间悬吊在空中；用高压电棒电击他的生殖器。二月十三日，郭飞雄不堪电击生殖器的极度痛苦和羞辱，奋力撞向玻璃，但求一死了之。三月十九日，他们再次用电警棍电击郭飞雄生殖器，达五、六分钟之久。

二00七年十一月十四日，司法当局在没有有效物证的情况下，以用高压电警棍电击生殖器等酷刑逼供得出的口供为证给郭飞雄定罪，判处郭飞雄有期徒刑五年，罚款四万。

二00七年十二月十三日，经过长达十四个月的非法拘留和无数次的酷刑后，郭飞雄从广州第三看守所转到广东省梅州市监狱服刑。郭飞雄到监狱的当天就受到狱方的威胁，威胁要送他去精神病院。此外，狱方还规定不准他看报读书，不准他与其他犯人说话。同时，强迫他做长时间体力劳动。为了抗议这非人的待遇，郭飞雄在转到梅州监狱的当天宣布绝食一百天。

十二月十八日，在郭飞雄绝食的第五天，在二百多服刑人员面前，狱方暗中指定一个犯人对郭飞雄进行长时间毒打，直到周围观看的二百多犯人看不下去出声制止，打人者才住手。

更令我伤心的是，我的儿子去年九月应该入读小学一年级，可是他却遭到校方的拒绝，现在我的儿子已经失学在家五个多月了。我的将要升中学的女儿也受到失学的威胁，政府有关方面的人威胁郭飞雄说，“我们不会让你的儿子上小学，不会让你的女儿升初中。”

我的孩子经常问我，“为什么爸爸还不回家？为什么我不能上学？”

总统先生，现在我的丈夫还在狱中进行绝食抗争，已绝食三十四天，（狱方给其灌食少量流质食物，灌食量是一天食物量的四分之一。）他的险恶的处境令我极度担忧。我给我国的胡锦涛主席也写了信，但没得到回音，我只好求助于你，求助于崇尚人权的美国政府，希望美国政府能够发出声音，帮助制止中国司法机构这种严重侵犯人权的迫害和酷刑，帮助我的孩子免受歧视和失学的不公，督促中国当局释放郭飞雄。

非常感谢你对中国人权的关注和帮助。

张青

二00八年一月十五日

You can do a search for the text of Gao Zhisheng's letter about Hu Jia's kidnapping. I would like to know what you think about these cases. Please have a read and a think and get back to me.--Asdfg12345 19:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Still waiting on a response.--Asdfg12345 05:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I too am stil waiting on your response to Epoch Times using breast cancer photo to fake a "sexual torture" story. As least I am not so dishonest to "archive" the discussion so I don't have to deal with it. Bobby fletcher (talk) 16:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't aware that you expected a response from me on that. It's actually irrelevant to the Epoch Times page since there are no reliable sources behind that. It can't be proven either way, so I don't know what the issue is. It's one peoples' words over another. If someone says it looks like breast cancer, that's fine. That doesn't mean that it doesn't also look like electric baton torture. How many people have seen breasts tortured by electric batons? Not very many at all outside prisons in China, I'd say. To rule out that that could be the cause, given the mountain of evidence around the persecution, and also reliable reports of widespread genital mutilation against practitioners is too much a leap of faith for my tastes. But I'm beginning to think that there's no point communicating with you any further on these points. I can't figure the rationale behind what you are doing, and I'm starting to think that there may not really be one. Let's just keep it business-like from now on. In the meantime, please do stop editing in contravention of WP:DE and WP:TE.--Asdfg12345 20:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reporting vandalism

You can bring up problems with users at WP:AIAV, which is the best way to bring the issue to the attention of the administrators. - Koweja (talk) 14:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If someone is vandalizing and needs to be blocked, make an WP:AIAV report. If someone vandalizes once revert it. In this case, a revert and a warning is sufficient, and that's what has happened. Mango juice^talk 14:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Li Hongzhi's supernatural abilities

Hi, thanks for the list, but my English is just no good enough to contribute to the article, May i suggest you to add these claims by Li Hongzhi to the article, and I think Martin is happy to do the copy editing, as long as it is well sourced. If any of those FLG editors has any objection I will back you up (Yes I believed we share the same view on Falun Gong). Again, thanks for your work on FLG related articles. Zixingche (talk) 09:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Blanked edits

If you have material backed by reliable sources that you feel is being unfairly blanked, collect them on a user subpage or in a sandpit where they can be looked over. --Simon D M (talk) 18:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Editor Asdfg12345's blanking of facts from notable source

1) removal of citation from Zonaeuropa, a source Asdfg had previously accepted:

a) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting&diff=199252635&oldid=199162090

b) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting&diff=195911630&oldid=195868915

c) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting&diff=195814588&oldid=189453120

2) blanking citation from ClearWisdom, a source Asdfg has used himself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting&diff=198095416&oldid=198012180

3) blanking news report from The Ottawa Citizen

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting&diff=178483849&oldid=178482051

4) blanking report from US Congressional Research Services

a)http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting&diff=185211623&oldid=185097691

b) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting&diff=195814588&oldid=189453120

5) blanking neutural POV report by Asia Times reporter Francesco Sisci

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong&diff=199256756&oldid=199249051

Editor Fnhddzs' blanking of facts from notable source

(TBD, starting in 2006) 1) Removal of citation from usinfo.state.gov relevant to article

a) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting&diff=70909412&oldid=68882272

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Personal information of other users

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@@ Line 197: / Line 197: @@
 == Possibly unfree Image:2008 Olympic Torch London Attacked.jpg ==
 An image that you uploaded or altered, [[:Image:2008 Olympic Torch London Attacked.jpg]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images]] because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the [[:Image:2008 Olympic Torch London Attacked.jpg|image description page]]. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at [[Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images/2008 April 23#Image:2008 Olympic Torch London Attacked.jpg|the discussion]] if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. [[User:Aleenf1|Aleen]][[User talk:Aleenf1|<font color="black">f</font><font color="red">1</font>]] 06:26, 23 April 2008 (UTC) <!-- Template:Idw-pui -->
+==Personal information of other users==
+Please do not post personal information regarding other users as you did in recent edits to [[Talk:Falun_Gong#My_own_analysis]] and [[Talk:Falun_Gong_and_live_organ_harvesting#STRONGLY_disputing_Asdfg.27s_.22blanking.22_of_fact_from_previously_accepted_source]]. If you have evidence of such a nature, please forward it privately to the Arbitration Committee. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred]] [[User talk:Fred Bauder|Talk]] 13:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)