Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests: Difference between revisions
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=== Bus stop === |
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: '''Initiated by ''' [[User:Warlordjohncarter|John Carter]] '''at''' 14:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC) |
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==== Involved parties ==== |
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*{{userlinks|Bus stop}} |
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*{{userlinks|warlordjohncarter}} |
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*{{userlinks|Cleo123}} |
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*{{userlinks|Scottperry}} |
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*{{userlinks|Demong}} |
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*{{userlinks|C.Logan}} |
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*{{userlinks|JJay}} |
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*{{userlinks|ObiterDicta}} |
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*{{userlinks|Metzenberg}} |
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; Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request |
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[[User talk:Bus stop#Request for arbitration|Bus stop]], [[User talk:Cleo123#Request for arbitration|Cleo123]], [[User talk:Scottperry#Request for arbitration|Scottperry]], [[User talk:Demong#Request for arbitration|Demong]], [[User talk:C.Logan#Request for arbitration|C.Logan]], [[User talk:JJay#Request for arbitration|JJay]], [[User talk:ObiterDicta#Request for arbitration|ObiterDicta]], [[User talk:Metzenberg#Request for arbitration|Metzenberg]] |
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; Confirmation that other steps in [[Wikipedia:dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] have been tried |
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*Request for mediation - [[Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Rejected/20#List of notable converts to Christianity]] |
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*Request for comment - [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_comment%2FBiographies&diff=126261868&oldid=126193699 here] and [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Religion and philosophy]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_comment%2FReligion_and_philosophy&diff=126278658&oldid=126195966 here] |
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==== Statement by [[User:Warlordjohncarter]] ==== |
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A user who has already been blocked twice for editing to content regarding [[Bob Dylan]] and his inclusion on the [[List of notable converts to Christianity]] is continuing to use the talk page of that article to repeat his statement that in his belief the party in question does not qualify for inclusion in the article. That user has been repeatedly asked to substantiate in any way his justification for these statements, and has yet to provide in the eyes of the other editors involved (myself included - simply indicating that I may have a preexisting bias) any coherent argument based on policy and guidelines to support it. That user, [[User:Bus stop]], has also specifically denigrated all parties who disagree with his position in language such as "Stop pretending he converted to Christianity" [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AList_of_notable_converts_to_Christianity&diff=126253431&oldid=126192632 here], despite editors repeatedly providing sourced, verifiable information to that effect, explicitly stating that the parties who disagree with him, including those who have responded to a request for comment [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_comment%2FBiographies&diff=126261868&oldid=126193699 here] are part of "an extremely small clique" who have a "clear agenda" relative to the Christianity project [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AList_of_notable_converts_to_Christianity&diff=128302474&oldid=128298738 here], and a variety of other accusations at least bordering on personal attacks on those parties who disagree with him. This party has also recently nominated the article for deletion on the basis of his disagreement with its content, been the only party who was directly involved in a recent request for mediation [[Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Rejected/20#List of notable converts to Christianity|here]] on the subject to not agree to such arbitration, and has explicitly described on his own user page his interest in this subject being an "obsession". It has been called to my attention on my talk page that it is possible to block certain editors from repeated posts on the same page. As several parties in this discussion have already indicated to this user that he never directly responds to any arguments made against him, but for the most part simply repeats his statement which has already been answered by others, I was wondering whether it might be possible to either limit the number of times he can post to the articles per day and/or to perhaps block him from editing the [[Bob Dylan]] and [[List of notable converts to Christianity]] entirely. He does seem to, according to others, engage in more constructive contributions elsewhere, so I don't think a total block or ban is necessarily appropriate. However, he has clearly already displayed less than complete objectivity in this matter. [[User:Warlordjohncarter|John Carter]] 14:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC) |
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==== Statement by [[User:ObiterDicta|ObiterDicta]] ==== |
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This dispute stems from an argument about the inclusion of one item on a list: Should [[Bob Dylan]] appear on [[List of notable converts to Christianity]]? I came to the debate only a few days ago, after seeing it on the [[WP:BLP/N|biographies of living persons noticeboard]], so I'm not really sure how involved I am. However, looking at the history of the [[Talk:List of notable converts to Christianity|talk page]], it appears that Bus stop initially argued that Dylan should be excluded from the list because the sourcing was insufficient, but when sources were found (''Encyclopedia Britannica'', ''New York Times'', etc.) that explicitly stated Dylan converted, Bus stop started arguing that the criteria for the list were invalid. |
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The discussion has become heated, although this is not entirely Bus stop's fault. At the present time, Bus stop (and ''perhaps'' one other editor) seems to be the only editor who wants Dylan completely excluded from the list. Currently, the discussion on the page revolves solely around the Dylan issue, which is unfortunate because the list clearly needs a lot of work. The discussion is going nowhere, as Bus stop is simply repeating arguments (many emotion laden, conclusory or filled with logical fallacies) that have already failed to convince the other editors on the page. |
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The dispute resolution process seems to have broken down here. An Article RFC was requested on whether to include Dylan, but did not solve the problem. Bus stop rejected mediation and does not appear open to a compromise version that would note parenthetically that Dylan no longer practices Christianity. There has not been a [[WP:RFC/U|request for comment]] on Bus stop yet and perhaps one would be appropriate. However, a discussion on the Community Sanctions noticeboard was closed as [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Community_sanction_noticeboard&diff=128223288&oldid=128223118 pointless bickering] and it seems that an RFC would simply be a rerun. |
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==== Statement by [[User:Bus stop|Bus stop]] ==== |
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You don't contrive parameters to achieve the results that you want on a list. A list is more "results oriented" than an article written in sentences and paragraphs. Especially concerning a living person, an article written in prose (composed of sentences and paragraphs) can accurately convey a particular person's situation at a point in his life. A "list" does not lend itself as well to this. And once you start massaging the parameters of that list to achieve the results you want, you have thrown objectivity completely out the window. The [[list of converts to Judaism]] states at the very top that it is a list of Jews. That is important, because a list is incapable of conveying shades of grey. A list is an article in which the name of the person appears or does not appear. The [[list of converts to Judaism]] does not deal with those notable people who at some point in their lives might have dabbled in Judaism. If the person is alive and not practicing Judaism then they shouldn't be on the [[list of converts to Judaism]]. If anyone finds a non-Jew on the [[list of converts to Judaism]] that name should be removed. The [[list of converts to Christianity]] does not take this straightforward approach regarding itself. That list defines it's parameters as "those notable people who have '''ever''' converted to Christianity." That raises more than one problem. First of all conversion to Christianity is a notoriously amorphous thing: almost anything can constitute conversion to Christianity. But more importantly, those parameters are contrived. That contrivance does not serve any good purpose on Wikipedia. That contrivance is only about achieving desired ends. No editor defending this newfangled parameter has been able to tell me how this represents an improvement over the straightforward criteria employed by the [[list of converts to Judaism|"Jewish" list]]. It certainly represents a ''larger'' list. But is it a more accurate list? Is it fair to the living people on it who don't happen to be Christian? The contrived parameters represent a violation of [[WP:BIO#LIVING]], [[WP:ADVERT]], [[WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE]], [[WP:NOT#SOAPBOX]], and [[WP:NPOV]]. [[WP:NPOV]] says, |
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:{{policy in a nutshell|align=center|All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a ''neutral point of view'', representing views fairly, proportionately and without bias.}} |
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I contend that altering parameters to achieve results is a primary abrogation of neutrality. |
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There is of course plenty more a person such as myself can and should be saying on this issue and the stance I take on it. I will be glad to do more writing if called for. But for now I just refer you to the most recent Talk page discussion [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_notable_converts_to_Christianity#Getting_down_to_tacks_of_the_brass_variety here]. Please review that discussion for the gist of this matter. Especially in my first entry under that section title heading and my last two entries (as it stands now) I try to enunciate why I object to the parameters chosen by the [[list of converts to Christianity]]. [[User:Bus stop|Bus stop]] 20:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC) |
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==== Clerk notes ==== |
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: (This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.) |
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==== Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/6/0/0) ==== |
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* Accept. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 16:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC) |
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* Decline. [[User:UninvitedCompany|The Uninvited]] Co., [[User_talk:UninvitedCompany|Inc.]] 19:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC) I believe that the community is capable of dealing with this matter without our assistance. |
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* Decline. Seems to mostly be a content debate about a fairly minor issue. There has certainly been some problematic behaviour, but I don't see anything that would yet merit an ArbCom case. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 20:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC) |
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* Decline. [[User:Mackensen|Mackensen]] [[User_talk:Mackensen|(talk)]] 20:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC) |
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* Reject per above comments. [[User:FloNight|FloNight]] 21:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC) |
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* Decline. per above. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|☎]] 17:00, 16 May 2007 (UTC) |
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* Reject, per above. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 10:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC) |
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---- |
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== Requests for clarification == |
== Requests for clarification == |
Revision as of 12:10, 18 May 2007
A request for arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution for conduct disputes on Wikipedia. The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and review previous decisions. The entire process is governed by the arbitration policy. For information about requesting arbitration, and how cases are accepted and dealt with, please see guide to arbitration.
To request enforcement of previous Arbitration decisions or discretionary sanctions, please do not open a new Arbitration case. Instead, please submit your request to /Requests/Enforcement.
This page transcludes from /Case, /Clarification and Amendment, /Motions, and /Enforcement.
Please make your request in the appropriate section:
- Request a new arbitration case
- Request clarification or amendment of an existing case
- This includes requests to lift sanctions previously imposed
- Request enforcement of a remedy in an existing case
- Arbitrator motions
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- recent changes
- purge this page
- view or discuss this template
Currently, there are no requests for arbitration.
No cases have recently been closed (view all closed cases).
Currently, no requests for clarification or amendment are open.
Motion name | Date posted |
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Arbitrator workflow motions | 1 December 2024 |
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/How-to
Current requests
Requests for clarification
Requests for clarification from the Committee on matters related to the Arbitration process. Place new requests at the top.
Appeal from Olaf Stephanos
In the recent Falun Gong arbitration case, User:Mcconn was placed on revert parole. However, according to CU performed by User:Dmcdevit, we have found out that the banned editor User:Samuel Luo has been using a wide variety of sockpuppets during the course of the last year. Among them are User:Pirate101, User:Yueyuen (an involved editor in the ArbCom case!), User:Kent888, User:Kent8888 and User:Mr.He, probably newly registered users User:Foullou, User:Shimanan, User:IamYueyuen, User:Gtyh and User:Fufg as well. Most incidents of Mcconn's revert warring took place against these sockpuppets. Therefore, I plead the ArbCom to lift the revert parole that was imposed on him, as it hardly feels justified in the light of this recent information. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 17:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- User:Mcconn needs to have the self control to deal with other users if they disagree about content. And follow the proper channels for dealing with problem users. This includes users that are using sock puppets. FloNight 18:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- Is there any chance for him to get his parole lifted if he now begins to edit in a completely respectable and proper manner? ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 09:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
- Yes. Although, I'm not exactly sure why he needs to revert. If for a period of time (at least 2-3 months, I think) he shows self control in his editing, he can request his revert parole be modified or dropped. The key thing is for him to show that he can work collaboratively with other users. FloNight 16:47, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
- This would seem to be inconsistent application of the COI rule. FG activists are allowed not only to edit, but also can be let off the hook after 2-3 months. Olaf has demonstrated much incivil behavior yet he hasn't even been warned about it. Yet less controversial alter egos of Sam like Yueyuen have been banned for eternity, and even Tomananda for their 'activism'. This is direct contradiction in logic. I have asked some Arbitrators on this matter, but no explanation has been given apart from 'dealing with the worst offenders'. Surely ArbCom should be aware by now that excommunicating one side at the total expense of the other will only result in worse edit wars. If Wiki FG-related entries wants to avoid being a battleground, temporary protection is not enough; we need a balance. Can Checkusers be done on ALL FG editors? If we are to defend human rights (e.g. all persons are created equal) and freedom on Wiki, we need to ensure fairness for all users, even if you disagree with their beliefs and principles. Please tell me if what I said was objectionable or disagreeable with any Wiki policies; whilst the ArbCom's hard work is always admired and appreciated (because I myself could never make that kind of commitment!), we need to ensure fairness and avoid falling into propaganda traps and ensure, in a way, balance-neutrality not only in principles, but also in the APPLICATION of principles to ALL users. Jsw663 12:53, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- I have apologized for all incivility I might be guilty of. The situation was quite tense with Samuel and Tomananda, and their legacy lingers on until we've reformed the articles. By the way, like I've said several times before (but never getting a response from you), it is quite uncivil on your part to keep accusing "pro-Falun Gong vandals/apologists" of vandalizing your user pages, even though we found the guy (User:NuclearBunnies) who made matching edits. I have nothing against a checkuser for all involved editors. I know for certain that none of "our party" is using sockpuppets. There will be no edit wars as long as everybody adheres to the policies. I'm not here to insist on blatantly substandard content like the puppetmaster(s) from Frisco. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 11:25, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
- This would seem to be inconsistent application of the COI rule. FG activists are allowed not only to edit, but also can be let off the hook after 2-3 months. Olaf has demonstrated much incivil behavior yet he hasn't even been warned about it. Yet less controversial alter egos of Sam like Yueyuen have been banned for eternity, and even Tomananda for their 'activism'. This is direct contradiction in logic. I have asked some Arbitrators on this matter, but no explanation has been given apart from 'dealing with the worst offenders'. Surely ArbCom should be aware by now that excommunicating one side at the total expense of the other will only result in worse edit wars. If Wiki FG-related entries wants to avoid being a battleground, temporary protection is not enough; we need a balance. Can Checkusers be done on ALL FG editors? If we are to defend human rights (e.g. all persons are created equal) and freedom on Wiki, we need to ensure fairness for all users, even if you disagree with their beliefs and principles. Please tell me if what I said was objectionable or disagreeable with any Wiki policies; whilst the ArbCom's hard work is always admired and appreciated (because I myself could never make that kind of commitment!), we need to ensure fairness and avoid falling into propaganda traps and ensure, in a way, balance-neutrality not only in principles, but also in the APPLICATION of principles to ALL users. Jsw663 12:53, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Appeal from Koavf
Koavf (talk · contribs · block log) recently contacted me via email, asking for an appeal by the ArbCom of his indefinite block, which was placed in November by Dmcdevit with the log summary of "Extensive block history for perpetually edit warring and disruptive behavior, but behavior is unmodified. Exhaustion of the community's patience." Koavf's reasons for his unblock are copied below:
- I personally desire to be unblocked because I enjoyed editing Wikipedia and I was in the middle of several articles that were enjoyable for me to write. As for the community at large, I feel like I have made several thousand useful edits, including writing whole articles that were valuable and may not have been written with the quality or expediency that I brought to them (I am particularly proud of List of African Union member states by political system.) Furthermore, the contributions on Western Sahara-related articles has completely stagnated as I've been gone and there is no indication that this trend will reverse. I feel like I can engage the community as a mature member and that the block I have been given is disproportionate to the amount of quality that I added to the endeavor at large.
He also wrote that "I am seeking to be unblocked by the Arbitration Committee; I have been blocked for several months and was a very active contributor to Wikipedia prior to the block. I have tried several means to get unblocked, and none of them have borne fruit (e.g. the most recent was e-mailing the blocking admin, who has not responded in over a week.)"
Following some discussion on our mailing list, it was suggested that Koavf be unblocked and instead placed on standard revert parole. This seems reasonable; his block log shows multiple prior blocks for 3RR violations, and a revert parole would thus hopefully address that issue while allowing him to continue his ways as a productive editor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flcelloguy (talk • contribs)
Motion for Unblock and standard revert parole (4/0/0/0)
Koavf (talk · contribs) is unblocked and placed on standard revert parole. He is hereby limited to a maximum of one content revert per page per day for one year. Each revert must be explicitly marked as such. Any such violations may result in further blocks of up to 24 hours, and multiple violations (i.e. three or more) may result in longer blocks or the resumption of the original indefinite block, depending on the administrator's discretion. Blocks should be mentioned on the requests for Arbitration page.
- Clerk note: There are currently 11 active arbitrators, so a majority is 6. Newyorkbrad 04:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- Support. Flcelloguy (A note?) 21:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- Support Fred Bauder 04:47, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- Support. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- Support. Kirill Lokshin 16:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Support. Paul August ☎ 16:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)Changed my mind per comments below. While, given what I currently know, I would support the unblock and revert parole, I do not think that this is the best way to go about it. Paul August ☎ 17:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Comments
(Not sure where you want this.) I don't quite understand this particular motion without a case. I don't feel vehemently about any half-year old ban of mine, but I do disagree that it should be done this way. Mostly, an arbitration case should never take anyone by surprise. The original ban was endorsed by several admins, and no one in the community was willing to unblock after an ANI discussion. If anyone (arbitrators included) think that a revert parole is a better option, it would have been better to 1) discuss with the blocking administrator and then 2) put it to the community on some noticeboard. That's normal admin courtesy. I can't avoid the feeling that, by bypassing the usual options, arbcom has essentially (whether intentionally or not) mixed up their administrator and arbitrator hats. Dmcdevit·t 07:35, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- I agree this seems like a bad idea, and is without precedent in the 9 months I have been a clerk. Unless FIcelloguy wants to act directly as an admin and unblock Koavf, the Arbcom precedent would be to list the appeal as a routine request. If four or more arbitrators agree to hear the case, a full case with an evidence and workshop page would be opened. Here you are going directly to the final decision without any input from the blocking admin or other editors who discussed the case when it was reported on the noticeboard. Thatcher131 14:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- Full link to discussion of indefinite block is here. Thatcher131 14:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- I think the reason this procedure is being used is that the editor in question is blocked indefinitely, so he has no on-wiki method of requesting a reduction in the sanction against him. Therefore, he properly wrote to the Arbitration Committee, as recommended, and arbitrators apparently concluded that they could reduce the sanction as indicated without needing evidence and a workshop.
- I think that procedurally, what is proposed here is the equivalent of setting up an expedited procedure ("summary docket") that the arbitrators would use for matters in which they believe ArbCom action is appropriate but the full panoply of opening a case is not necessary. I suppose last month's fast-tracked confirmation of the Robdurbar desysopping would be a procedural precedent, not that the two cases are otherwise comparable in any way. On the one hand, it would make sense that such an expedited procedure be established for less controversial items (perhaps with a caveat that this procedure could not be used if any arbitrator objected, or if more than one arbitrator objected). The counter-argument is that the experience of real-world legal systems is that such special expedited procedures quickly tend to get overused, including for matters that would benefit from more plenary consideration. Newyorkbrad 14:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- To answer a few of the qualms: I, too, was at first a little hesitant about any such appeals method. But the email from Koavf indicated that he had tried other means of recourse, including emailing the blocking admin (Dmcdevit) previously, with no reply. He attempted an unblock request in January of this year, which was denied; people told him to take his appeals process to the Arbitration Committee because he was blocked indefinitely. Whether or not it's technically a "ban" seemed a bit irrelevant; people pointed him to us, citing the appeals process. It was clear that, with that advice having been given to him, that the Arbitration Committee would be the only ones able to listen to his case and act. With that in mind and the appeals of all bans in our "jurisdiction", I was still a little bit hesitant about how to proceed. After receiving his email, I forwarded (like I would any other email pertaining to ArbCom business) his email to the mailing list and asked for thoughts on how to proceed. It was suggested by another Arbitrator that we take the option of unblocking him, and placing him on standard revert parole - his block log and prior discussions indicated that this was one of the primary reasons that hindered him from being a productive editor. Several Arbitrators agreed with this proposal, at which point I asked for advice on how to proceed - how would we treat this? Another Arbitrator responded that it should be treated like a standard appeals and placed in the "clarification" section. With sufficient time given and no objections heard, I proceeded with placing this request on here.
- Regarding the lack of a complete case for this matter: this was something, as I mentioned above, that I asked for feedback on from my fellow Arbitrators, and they all seemed comfortable with this method. I saw little merit in starting a new case; unlike the typical case that we accept, there would be no need for a workshop, proposed decisions, evidence, etc. - the only thing that we were considering is whether or not to unblock this particular editor, and if so, whether or not to place him on standard revert parole. Other editors are, of course, free to comment here, but as no Arbitrator had opposed placing this unblock to a vote, I didn't see a need to vote on whether or not to "accept" a case - an Arbitrator either believes that the editor should be unblocked, or he doesn't. (Of course, they are all free to propose alternate solutions and remedies.) It seemed redundant to vote on "accepting" the case and then voting again on the one proposed action, when, in essence, anyone accepting the case would be supporting the unblock, while those against opening would be against the unblock. Again, no objections were heard at all in the time this was discussed on our mailing list, and we all looked into the circumstances surrounding his unblock carefully.
- Those are the reasons why I felt comfortable proceeding with this request, having discussed this and being advised to proceed in this manner by other Arbitrators. It should also be noted that I contacted Dmcdevit as well after I placed this appeal from Koavf on here, notifying him of the appeal. Perhaps I should have contacted all the other editors who discussed the indefinite block in the first place; if so, I apologize. I - and the rest of the committee - of course respect and understand your qualms about this, but I hope I've made clear why I felt comfortable proceeding in the manner I did. (If I didn't address any of your concerns inadvertantly, please let me know and I'll do so.) Additional feedback and comments about the process or case are, as always, welcome. Thanks for your understanding. Flcelloguy (A note?) 15:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not so concerned about the lack of a case, or "jurisdiction" issues—I've always felt that simple cases should be resolved with open motions, not full cases, but the previous ArbCom never warmed to my idea—but that this block was uncontested, and ArbCom's action came out of the blue. If any of the arbitrators, upon receiving Koavf's email, felt that lifting the ban was a good idea, simply saying so as a respected administrator on ANI would have been enough. The problem here is that by using arbitration to make a simple admin decision–especially when, if you had contacted any of us who had discussed it previously, it would be clear that limiting the ban to some kind of probation is not that controversial–ArbCom seems to be limiting admin discretion in favor of sending more cases to arbitraton instead. (I have a laundry list of users community banned by adminstrators and upheld by the community who still want to be unblocked, probably several a week, if ArbCom would like to have at them all. )Dmcdevit·t 05:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- Those are the reasons why I felt comfortable proceeding with this request, having discussed this and being advised to proceed in this manner by other Arbitrators. It should also be noted that I contacted Dmcdevit as well after I placed this appeal from Koavf on here, notifying him of the appeal. Perhaps I should have contacted all the other editors who discussed the indefinite block in the first place; if so, I apologize. I - and the rest of the committee - of course respect and understand your qualms about this, but I hope I've made clear why I felt comfortable proceeding in the manner I did. (If I didn't address any of your concerns inadvertantly, please let me know and I'll do so.) Additional feedback and comments about the process or case are, as always, welcome. Thanks for your understanding. Flcelloguy (A note?) 15:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I think this appeal should have been exposed to public. No one from the list of people who participated at the AN/I discussion have been informed of this process. I think people should be informed at least.
Anyway, as i had stated in the AN/I back on November 2006, i have no objection to see Koavf contributing again but it remains conditional (partial ban - see AN/I). I still think the same. In parallel, i don't understand that if they revert more than once a day they'd only be blocked for 24h. Why not longer? Why not putting them on a probation period with stricter conditions instead? Anyway, i assume good faith and would not object if Justin is willing to do as they say. I'd have no problems in seeing them contributing again but totally POV-free the same way they have done at Citizendium. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 19:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree with FayassalF. I'm surprised that the arbcom is willing to unblock someone banned with a clear community consensus per discussion on the incident noticeboard and without a strong reason to involve itself. (This does not look like a case that would be accepted if it had been brought back in November.) I therefore think this looks like bypassing the community, which should only be done when it is clear the arbcom can do a better job of resolving the dispute than the community can. That said, I would welcome Koavf back if he promises not to edit war anymore, but has he done so? If so, where? Picaroon (Talk) 21:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't mind the Arbitration Committee taking cases like this, so long as the community is given the opportunity of final appeal (i.e. if ArbCom reverses a ban, the community can restore the ban after another discussion). Ral315 » 02:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- Two things here. If the community would have the final word than why do we have to go through here? Also, who would define the conditions? -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 02:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- To the first point, it wouldn't be a requirement to go through here, merely another way of reversal. Very rarely would there be a case where a ban reversed by ArbCom would be questionable (I'd argue almost never would this happen). Second, the conditions would be defined by the cases where ArbCom chooses to step in, and afterward, in the cases where someone appeals the ban on WP:AN or elsewhere, and the community agrees that the case is worth looking at. Ral315 » 02:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks and partially agree. Because i heard about a 24h sanction in case of a 3RR infraction. Isn't this applied to all users? If the unblock would be executed under such conditions than the community would surely disagree. But where, how and when? -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 02:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- To the first point, it wouldn't be a requirement to go through here, merely another way of reversal. Very rarely would there be a case where a ban reversed by ArbCom would be questionable (I'd argue almost never would this happen). Second, the conditions would be defined by the cases where ArbCom chooses to step in, and afterward, in the cases where someone appeals the ban on WP:AN or elsewhere, and the community agrees that the case is worth looking at. Ral315 » 02:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- I would assume that this wouldn't apply to any short-term blocks - any ArbCom action taken on a community decision would take at least a week, presumably - I'm talking about this covering blocks of, say, 1 month or more. But since this is a rare case currently, I don't think any real rules on it need to be defined. Ral315 » 03:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Is any kind of official motion really required? This is basically a community ban. By my understand, any admin can undo a community ban, since the definition of a community ban is simply a ban that no admin is willing to undo. I would suggest that someone unblock him unilaterally and then if anyone wants him reblocked they can start a full arbcom case. --Tango 10:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to point out that in addition to being Arbcom members, they are still members of the Wikipedia administration community. And as such, any one of them can decide a community ban was inappropriate and overturn it unilaterally. It's patently ludicrous to argue that the Arbcom may not do something in summary motion that they can do as ordinary administrators. It does not really need majority vote either, simply one of the admins saying "I'm dubious over this ban, if people want a ban they should take it to full Arbitration." --Barberio 10:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Motions in prior cases
- (Only Arbitrators may make and vote on such motions. Other editors may comment on the talk page)
Archives
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Completed requests
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Rejected requests (extremely sparse, selective, and unofficial)