Talk:Sotk gold mine

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Requested move 27 May 2021

Zod gold mine → Sotk gold mine – The WP:COMMONNAME of the gold mine is very obviously the Sotk gold mine, not the Zod gold mine. The town of Sotk, located in Armenia, was once inhabited by Azerbaijanis, but the gold mine itself has always been operated by Armenians in Armenia under the Armenian name Sotk.

Let's do a quick search on Google and Google Scholar: "Sotk gold mine" brings up 33,200 and 116 results on the platforms respectively, while "Zod gold mine" has a mere 772 and 9 results. Interestingly, the lion's share of results that display "Zod" also happen to inhumanely display Armenians as thieves and charlatans. For example, the Iranian Azeri photographer Reza Deghati boasts on Twitter that "the armenian occupants have looted the Azerbaijani part of the ZOD gold mine", even though the gold mine was illegitimately occupied by Azerbaijan after the 2020 NK war ceased. Alternatively, "KavkazPlus", a notorious Georgian far-right site known for denigrating Armenians worldwide, proudly declares, "Zod gold deposit in Kelbajar region is freed from Armenian marauders".

As objectively illegal as the annexation of Az. territories by Armenian forces after the First NK war was by international law, as illegal is the forceful occupation of the Sotk gold mine by Azerbaijan. Thus, the legitimate names should be used in both situations. And the legitimate name for the Sotk gold mine is Sotk and nothing but Sotk. BaxçeyêReş (talk) 20:26, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

• Keep. The larger portion of the mine is located on Azerbaijani territory, and the Azerbaijani name of the mine is "Zod". "Zod" was also the official Armenian name of the mine until 1991. WP:COMMONNAME does not apply. Parishan (talk) 01:25, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

The mine was illegally annexed by Azerbaijan, and it is on Azerbaijani territory now, but has been Armenian territory for eons. Annexations/Occupations do not warrant a name change as if it is "legitimate". And WP:COMMONNAME does apply because the move was unilateral.BaxçeyêReş (talk) 01:48, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

What makes you think it was illegally annexed? Are there any sources stating that Azerbaijan taking control of one part of the mine is considered annexation? Parishan (talk) 02:12, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Given that the World Bank clearly states that the mine is in Armenian territory, it's safe to say that Azerbaijan taking control of part of it means that its an annexation. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 12:41, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Here is a Moscow-published Soviet source from 1957 describing the Zod mine as located in Azerbaijan: "В эту полосу входит Ипякское месторождение в Лачинском районе, Гейдаринское, Зодское, Джомартское в Кельбаджарском районе и Шахдагское месторождение в верховье p. Шамхорчай." (М. Кашкай, П. Алампиев. Азербайджанская ССР. Экономико-географическая характеристика. — М.: Государственное издательство географической литературы, 1957). Parishan (talk) 02:36, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support. per nom and WP:COMMONNAME. Sotk Gold Mine is the most commonly used name in English, per Wikipedia policy articles should be named after the most widely used name in English since this is English Wikipedia. WP:OFFICIALNAME does not apply seeing as the mine is split between the territorial integrity of Armenia and Azerbaijan per the article itself. Also, the mine is named after the locality of Sotk, it makes no sense to have that page named Sotk and this one Zod. Analyzing RS that report on this mine they almost all describe it as Sotk (Zod) with Zod being displayed as an alternative name not the common name.[[1]][[2]] even the Pro-Azerbaijani news site Vestnik Kavkaza says “Sotk (Zod).” Per nom almost all the publications that use Zod aren’t reliable sources, it is clear from the google results that Sotk is the most widely used name in English for this mine. TagaworShah (talk) 03:25, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

The terrotory of the mine was under de-facto Armenian occupation/control for almost 30 years thus the Armenian name appears to be more used in the Internet, but as it was mentioned above, the most part of the mine is located on the terrotory of Azerbaijan, and the name Zod was also the official name of the mine during the Soviet times. Argumentation that "Kalbajar is occupied by Azerbaijan" is not applicable as 1) that is not true 2) it clearly demonstrates pro-Armenian bias to everyone who thinks this way --Mastersun25 (talk) 10:09, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, but who ever suggested that "Kalbajar" was "occupied by Azerbaijan"? BaxçeyêReş (talk) 15:48, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

• Keep. per the above --Mastersun25 (talk) 10:09, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support. Per nominator's points and also that per the World Bank, Sotk is in Armenian territory, which you can see here, go to page 8 KhndzorUtogh (talk) 19:13, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes, about 1/3 of the mine is on Armenian territory. Rest 2/3 is on the territory of Azerbaijan's Kalbajar district. [3] --Mastersun25 (talk) 19:41, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Did you really just link to a wikimedia commons image to prove that the mine is in Azerbaijani territory? Literally the world bank says it is in Armenia and you link to an image on commons. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 19:56, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

It is not "just a link to Wikimedia commons" but a satellite image sourced by European Space Agency. The mine is and has been located mostly on Azerbaijani territory since the Soviet times, also the World Bank report does not say that the mine fully lies on Armenian territory as well. Honestly you trying to challenge obvious and well-known facts makes this discussion totally nonsensical. --Mastersun25 (talk) 21:28, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

• support: per nominator, TagaworShah and WP:COMMONNAME. - Kevo³²⁷ (talk) 12:32, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

• support: am / might be coming out of my temporary Wikipedia retirement to support the motion - i've watched for far too long. i can only reiterate the nominator, TagaworShah, KhndzorUtogh, Kevo327. Thank you. ClassicYoghurt (talk) 16:10, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support Per the nominator. Common name now is Sotk. Sotk also has more Google search results, and the town to which after the mine is named, again is also called Sotk. Seems like a clear case to me. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 08:28, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

1) "Sotk" is the common name of the mine only in Armenia; 2) I just checked with the Google, and the combination "Zod gold mine" has more Google results than "Sotk gold mine". 3) The Armenian settlement near the mine is not a town, but a village, and it was also called "Zod" before being renamed in 1995. Given the fact that most of the mine is located on Azerbaijani territory as well as the arguments above, I'm not sure how this case is "clear" to you. Regards, --Mastersun25 (talk) 11:45, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Also I love how @Kevo327: who is accusing me of sockpuppeting, has a tandem partnership with @ZaniGiovanni: on every possible discussion on the AA-topic on Wikipedia. Isn't that a canvassing? Regards, --Mastersun25 (talk) 11:57, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

I chuckled a bit, not going to lie. This is kind of funny and sad at the same time. "Canvassing" based on what again, @Mastersun25: ? I'm going to warn you to stop casting aspersions on other editors, or your account will be reported. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 12:04, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Mastersun25, I duly suspected it and filed an investigation because your conduct was problematic at best, by comparison you are making worthless WP:ASPERSIONS without understanding what canvassing is, assuming bad faith in this way isn't a good practice, I advise you to read WP:AGF as well. - Kevo³²⁷ (talk) 12:12, 3 June 2021 (UTC)