Commons:Deletion requests/File:Warren Beatty as Dick Tracy.jpg
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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
At the source page on Flickr, the uploader states "Photo given to me by Shel Dorf." It is not immediately clear if the uploader has the right to license this photo. In other photos in the same stream, he has put a license on photos he clearly does not own the copyright to e.g. a movie poster for Air America, a clipping from the National Enquirer, and an article from TV Guide. FredWalsh (talk) 18:14, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- There is no attempt in the other examples shown to claim that the images used belong to Alan Light. In the Dick Tracy image he says that the photo was given to him by Shel Dorf, the person who appears in the photo next to Warren Beatty in the original Flickr image: [1]. A Google image search shows the only usage on the internet is from Wikipedia (the examples are cropped in the same way), and a number of those give credit to Alan Light. There is a legal tangle of who owns the photo because the original owner did not take the picture as he appears in it, but an assumption can be made that Dorf's camera was used, so he would be the owner. There is no information contained in the image - that appears to have been lost in the transferring of the photo from Dorf to Light. We have no proof of Light's ownership, but we also have no conflicting evidence against that. What we have is Light's explanation that the photo was given to him by the owner, and Light granting permission to reuse the image provided he is credited. I think in the circumstances it is fair to assume copyright was transferred to Alan Light by Shel Dorf. SilkTork (talk) 16:14, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- @SilkTork: That’s not how copyright is transferred. It is a common mistake people make - confusing physical ownership of a photo with owning the rights to the photo. We should assume that copyright remained with Shel Dorf and his heirs unless there was an explicit transfer of copyright. FredWalsh (talk) 16:23, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- We could assume either way. What we have is an implied assertion by Alan Light that he has the copyright, and absent any conflicting evidence we can take that as our basis for using the photo. Any issue regarding actual copyright issue would be between Alan Light and Dorf's heirs. We have done due diligence, and used this image for over 13 years on around 40 articles on 20 wikis around the world. There is no screamingly obvious copyright theft and absolute zero possibility of Wikipedia getting sued or even blamed if we have got this wrong. There are battles to fight regarding misuse of images, yes, but I don't see this as being one of them. SilkTork (talk) 17:21, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- The default assumption should be that Shel Dorf retained copyright. Nowhere does Alan Light say that copyright was transferred to him. By going into "implied assertions" we would be creating new policies. Flickr users quite often tag photos with licenses without really thinking them through. Look at the sheer number of Flickr files that are deleted from Commons because they are tagged as {{Flickr-public domain mark}}. The only evidence that we can say with certainty is that Alan Light has the photo in his possession. Nothing more than that - it does not matter how long the file has been on Commons. We need certainty in copyright, not assertions or guesswork. FredWalsh (talk) 21:50, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- We could assume either way. What we have is an implied assertion by Alan Light that he has the copyright, and absent any conflicting evidence we can take that as our basis for using the photo. Any issue regarding actual copyright issue would be between Alan Light and Dorf's heirs. We have done due diligence, and used this image for over 13 years on around 40 articles on 20 wikis around the world. There is no screamingly obvious copyright theft and absolute zero possibility of Wikipedia getting sued or even blamed if we have got this wrong. There are battles to fight regarding misuse of images, yes, but I don't see this as being one of them. SilkTork (talk) 17:21, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- @SilkTork: That’s not how copyright is transferred. It is a common mistake people make - confusing physical ownership of a photo with owning the rights to the photo. We should assume that copyright remained with Shel Dorf and his heirs unless there was an explicit transfer of copyright. FredWalsh (talk) 16:23, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Deleted. No reason to believe that copyright was ever transferred from the photographer to anybody else. Thuresson (talk) 22:04, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
