Commons:Deletion requests/Linguistic flags

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Linguistic flags

A collection of flags used to represent languages would be fine, but this is a collection of flags that the editors think should or could be used to represent languages, which is out of scope. Prosfilaes (talk) 20:34, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I added the talk page because the main page was protected.--Prosfilaes (talk) 20

35, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

 Keep-The page is a very useful resource. Sure, it is full of flags that we think are good, but it is still a good resource for anyone who would want such things. Shikku27316 (talk) 21:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

COM:SCOPE. That you claim it's a very useful resource doesn't mean it's a valid Commons page.--Prosfilaes (talk) 21:38, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, it would be stupid to delete it. And where else would it go? I could make it my userpage on here, but that wouldn't work because nobody could find it. I say we keep it. It's a gallery of pictures that are there to represent something and to help people. Many galleries here are not within the scope of wiki. Should we delete all the galleries then? Shikku27316 (talk) 22:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

There's many, many places you can host your private pages. Other crap exists is not a deletion argument here any more then Wikipedia, and galleries are very clearly in scope in the general case. One called, say, Paintings you can use to identify languages, yes, I would propose for deletion.--Prosfilaes (talk) 16:24, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Private pages? I don't know. This gallery is not hurting anyone, and it doesn't take up memory (does it?). My examples below show that it's not any less educational than those, and I can find more. I'll be back after I read the scope and find more pointless galleries. Shikku27316 (talk) 23:44, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Other crap exists is not a deletion argument. I said that above.--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:38, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I didn't say "other crap exists", I'm talking about what that "crap" is. And that it has no more educational value than this page. If not less. It fits everything in the scope, but we're debating its educationality. It shows people flags that they could use to represent a language, and shows people, or teaches people, where a language is spoken or what a language's official flag looks like if it has one. People learn better with colourful things. Saying "it's spoken in pockets of central Xinjiang in the northwest of China" is not going to always be as educational as a flag of Uyghurstan. I think, in fact I know, that it has educational value, if that's even the point of a gallery. Seriously, a gallery of paintings won't teach. I think, maybe the name is just what's misleading us here. Shikku27316 (talk) 03:47, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

• I find the whole notion of languages having flags quite absurd, not to mention that quite a few of the images shown aren’t even flags. I don’t see what purpose would be served by deleting the talk page, however—ISTM that would just enshrine the gallery as being beyond criticism or improvement.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 19:51, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
  • As I noted above, the main page is protected, so I couldn't tag it for deletion. That languages don't have flags is not completely true; Esperanto and Lingua Franca Nova have frequently used flags, and Category:SVG flags of languages has a number of flag-shaped images that don't match national flags for use with multinational languages by people who like to use flags with countries. Various forms of UK/US flag blends, with or without Canadian additions for English, etc.--Prosfilaes (talk) 20:28, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

So we may assume that if this discussion favours deleting of the talk page, the gallery would be automatically deleted as well? Anyway, both your examples are conlangs: while I might argue that these are flags of the organizations that promote them, rather than of the languages per se, that’s a rather fine distinction. Accordingly, I would not oppose a compromise that removed all the entries except for those belonging to linguistic, ethnolinguistic, or language-based organizations (including e.g. conlangs and Francophonie), and perhaps the invented flags or animated montages combining flags of the countries with a particular official language (although their educational value is questionable). Nor would I oppose a Move to a more appropriate name, one that didn’t imply that the entries in it—particularly the flags of nations and regions—are all about language. Furthermore, a great many of the places represented do not have an important or distinctive local dialect, an inference an uninformed reader might draw. Otherwise, I’ll say  Delete. I also feel that flags invented for fun belong on a personal or social-media site.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 19:21, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I think a move would be good. It could be "Flags to represent languages by where they're spoken" or something. Let me try to figure this out. "Flags of Languages" or "Flags of places to represent the majority languages." Or, just something else. Shikku27316 (talk) 23:38, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

The Esperanto flag is not proprietary to any one of the organizations that promotes it.--Prosfilaes (talk) 19:58, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, noted. But my main concern is with the national, and especially regional, flags. (Recent disputes & Talk highlight the problem with the latter.)—Odysseus1479 (talk) 20:12, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

• • • Well, I have copied the source down, so if it goes down, I can always either bring it back up in the main space or in a sandbox. But if someone's looking for this, it's here for them. Maybe they want to use flags to represent languages for a project, or whatever. I know I used to be looking for the same thing. Why wouldn't someone else want to look for it? Shikku27316 (talk) 22:45, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
      • If this page ends up being deleted, you can't re-create it in mainspace out of process. You would have to file a request at Commons:Undeletion requests. INeverCry 04:27, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

 Delete These aren't "Flags representing languages", they're flags representing countries. Basing a gallery on personal views or ideas doesn't meet the COM:SCOPE requirement of educational value. Also, it's not difficult to find a flag here on Commons of any country for any purpose, so no real need for this gallery. INeverCry 04:19, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

They are flags representing areas that speak these languages, flags representing cultures who speak that language, or the language itself. It's not personal views; it's more just "what flag could represent this language to say what language it is without bothersome writing?" I didn't know it had to be educational, either. Most of the galleries here aren't educational, be it "Faroe Islands", "Portraits of U.S. Presidents", or "Sexual Identity symbols" (and anything with "sexual" in the title should not be on here anyway). It's difficult to find a flag to represent a language if you need it, because if someone needs Nynorsk, they may accidentally use Norway's flag. Or India for Hindi. Or Spain for Spanish. Someone could design flags each language and propose them (I'll do it!), so maybe we could do that and make a gallery, with this stuff at the bottom or something? Well, I hope I can propose language flags, it would be fun. Shikku27316 (talk) 14:53, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

 Delete per INeverCry reasons cited.--HCPUNXKID (talk) 18:00, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

But I just countered those arguments. Shikku27316 (talk) 05:56, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

 Delete Forgive them, because they do not know, what they are doing. This is original work, this is not allowed in Wikipedia. Taivo (talk) 17:18, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

It's not otiginal work, it's not Wikipedia. It's the Commons, and it's a gallery. It has more value than my examples above. I don't know what we're doing that makes us need forgiveness. Shikku27316 (talk) 23:38, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

 Keep per Shikku. It's not Wikipedia, it's Commons, and it's a gallery, and such things do not have to be verified or backed up by sources. Having said that, anecdotally, i can say that in my experience I have often seen many of these in linguistic use. Evertype (talk) 08:14, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

---

Kept: Potentially useful -- We often see the Union flag used to represent the English language version of a page, the Tricolor, the French language version, and so forth. This can be helpful for people creating versions of pages that have less obvious languages. While it has its problems -- the inclusion of the Australian White Ensign, for example, those can be fixed. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 11:50, 29 May 2013 (UTC)