Driverless racing is real, terrible, and strangely exciting
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
This is all interesting, but I'm really interested in why we haven't seen racing with remotely piloted cars (like these big open-wheel ones). It seems to me that it could be very exciting, as once you take the meat bag out of the cockpit, you can then dial up the performance of the cars. If the virtual racers were on site, the latency could be very low and doable.
Of course, that takes the danger out of the remote driver's mind, but there is still a penalty for crashing your expensive race car too often, which is, of course, losing your virtual seat.
With VR and augmented reality, it seems this is doable and would be far more interesting in my mind than watching a bunch of AI race each other.
Of course, that takes the danger out of the remote driver's mind, but there is still a penalty for crashing your expensive race car too often, which is, of course, losing your virtual seat.
With VR and augmented reality, it seems this is doable and would be far more interesting in my mind than watching a bunch of AI race each other.
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Not much of a racing fan, but I've always felt the meat-bag has been holding it back.
I'm really hoping we do the obvious thing with this...
After ramping up the performance, we add weapons and counter-measures.
I'm really hoping we do the obvious thing with this...
After ramping up the performance, we add weapons and counter-measures.
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There’s a startup doing FPV RC racing but not with full-size cars. The scale speeds are quite high though. Keep meaning to dig into them for a story but still haven’t had time.
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Pretty disasterous if you watch any video of the event.
I have seen racing RC cars converted to be autonomous racing that was more exciting.
I have seen racing RC cars converted to be autonomous racing that was more exciting.
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This was a well-written article and a nice start to the day. I’m not a racing aficionado by any definition but I did find myself interested as I went along, so well do e to the writer AND to the choice of photos to include.
As I was reading, I could almost recall there was a sci-fi movie from my youth — maybe even back in the 80s or 90s where —simply as background/atmosphere—there was an event where people cheered for various racing robots. But IDK, it might’ve been some B-movie only on TV. The article just brought back flashes of memory.
Either way, good job and very interesting.
As I was reading, I could almost recall there was a sci-fi movie from my youth — maybe even back in the 80s or 90s where —simply as background/atmosphere—there was an event where people cheered for various racing robots. But IDK, it might’ve been some B-movie only on TV. The article just brought back flashes of memory.
Either way, good job and very interesting.
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HuntingManatees
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Oh, absolutely. Personally, the appeal of driverless racing lies in pushing the vehicles' capabilities beyond human limits. Just slapping a motherboard on an otherwise normal Formula car doesn't do it for me.
I'm 100% on board with watching robots and remote drivers compete in 80s dystopian movie-style racing events where the cars are equipped with giant saws, drill bits, meat tenderizing hammers, captive bolt guns and such. Sorta like a mix of "Robot Wars" and democross -- or, like, put rocket engines on a bunch of PT Cruisers and and send them down a Scandinavian rally course.
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That was teased a looooong time ago with Jetson’d episode featuring the football game.
View: https://youtu.be/LjuYd0I23k0
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Fascinating!
Thought it hurts me to admit, I too had images of Death Race 2000.
Thought it hurts me to admit, I too had images of Death Race 2000.
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Haven’t seen any footage of the event yet, but the description that “the cars did repeatedly negotiate the track” does indeed sound as if it might not have been the most exciting spectator sport.
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Without the drivers and prospect of junior series - this… just seems like a soulless series that is more emissions than online racing but also more soulless.
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I'm kind of surprised Microsoft and Sony didn't get involved. Seems the perfect avenue for marketing their ingame AIs.
Granted, they may not have for obvious reasons, terrible performance wouldn't sell games very well.
Granted, they may not have for obvious reasons, terrible performance wouldn't sell games very well.
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So, I'm up there with ya. Sure, a real life incarnation of Steve Jackson's "Car Wars" with robots and remotely piloted vehicles would be cool.
Unfortunately I think the "combat" part would be cost prohibitive as much as I would love to see it.
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https://scifi.stackexchange.com/que...anned-robots-that-would-drive-instead-of-walk has a few possibilities. Let us know if you find it! Sci-fis that come true during my lifetime are fascinating to me.
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I know this is a thing. But for me, it's never been about the people in the cars, nor the team or anything people related. For some reason my brain doesn't really compute that as part of the entertainment equation. In fact, it tends to label all of that as "drama" and I really dislike drama.
Of course, I probably don't fit the profile of a "motorsport devotee", given the last time I watched a race was before it all moved to Cable and one could still get UHF and VHF on their televisions. But when I did watch it, for me, it was about the cars, the action on the track, and the skill involved in those too-infrequent times (compared to the hours long duration of most races) when quick reflexes could make or break race.
It didn't seem like a teams thing to me. I get that it is, but I don't see "team" out on the race course. And the only times I ever saw the drivers during a race was during closeups, pit stops and the occasional, sad moments when they were pried from or carried out of wrecks. Once the race was over, I skipped the recaps and celebrations and went to do something else.
But because sports is inherently damaging to the players (except, maybe, golf, where a sunburn seems to be the riskiest part of the thing, and bores the everloving fuck out of me to watch), things there have changed.
So it kind of begs the question, would the Roman Games have been as popular without the blood? Probably not. That was kind of the point then. Appease the people by giving them blood and circuses.
But people today are somewhat more civilized, the hammer is coming down on sports that create long-term injuries and brain damage in the normal course of play, rather than just from missteps or miscues. "Blood sports" are beginning to lose their appeal as the barbarism in them doesn't tend to draw the crowds they used to. Legislation to civilize the sports is increasing, and even leagues and organizations are creating rules for safer players. All because people don't really want to see people being damaged. Even boxing is much less popular today than it was 40 years ago.
Taking the human element drama out of it removes both the good (if you're a race car driver or are in it for the people, and not the actual races, as some fans I know were) and the bad (dead/injured drivers), but may offer huge appeal to people who love the spectacle and the crashes, and not so much the blood.
Even if the blood is being drained from professional sports, people still want sports, or competitions, to watch. So, yeah, I'd say they can find an audience. At least enough to get it going. How far it goes remains to be seen. I don't see achieving parity with racing human-driven vehicles anytime soon, though.
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I'm not so sure about that. Because the hardware is fixed1, and the course is closed, the only changes that need to be made are to the software. And that software could be tested in massively parallel environments (EG see all the robotics research being done by shoving several thousand virtual robots into an environment and letting them flop around until they slowly evolve to walk). But a human driver can only learn in a linear time frame. So IMHO the odds are stacked against the human drivers.
1. I didn't see anything the article about tuning the cars. From my limited understanding of car racing, better tuning does help differentiate racing teams (and this may actually be where a human driver is superior, as they can better articulate how a car feels on the track and how it responds to changes to the setup).
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Personally, I love the idea of an autonomous race. I'd change the format a little bit. Take those cars and shrink them to 1/5 or so size so that people not funded on the blood money of a slave empire can participate in a place that isn't a brutal monarchy. Shrink down the cars so you can make a significantly cheaper cars closer to an amateurs price range. Start the league with just boring old racing in circles. Then, as time goes on, start removing rules.
You need to develop this technology on a cheaper platform. Get it working so that cars can get around the track consistently. Once you get that though... it's time to start removing rules and start playing Mario Kart. The ultimate form this sport is having autonomous cars battle around a track, violently ramming each other, and eventually deploying weapons.
When we get really good we are going to upgrade from Mario Kart to Twisted Metal where you have battle bats fighting in a remote arena with real weapons.
You need to develop this technology on a cheaper platform. Get it working so that cars can get around the track consistently. Once you get that though... it's time to start removing rules and start playing Mario Kart. The ultimate form this sport is having autonomous cars battle around a track, violently ramming each other, and eventually deploying weapons.
When we get really good we are going to upgrade from Mario Kart to Twisted Metal where you have battle bats fighting in a remote arena with real weapons.
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Seems odd as to why they would pick an open wheel platform to test this. I would think a more robust vehicle would be preferable.
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The weird part for me was how out of nowhere this thing was. All of a sudden every major f1 media outlet was doing a podcast or article or coverage of this fairly mediocre performance. With no warning or pre-event plugs.
It was like they forgot "oh shoot we need media coverage" until 2 days before, but then couldn't rebook the track. Why not have the race before or after the f1 finale when all the media you want are all done their f1 duties and are already there.
It was like they forgot "oh shoot we need media coverage" until 2 days before, but then couldn't rebook the track. Why not have the race before or after the f1 finale when all the media you want are all done their f1 duties and are already there.
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It was not. I watched way too much of it and it could definitely be described as a bit of a joke, especially if you don't have any knowledge of what's involved and how severe the time crunch was. As usual I recommend avoiding Youtube comments. Too many people don't understand that nascent technology is gonna be worse than established tech. Shocker, I know.
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Driverless car racing is really supersized remote control cars or slot cars. What’s next, we replace boxing with rock’um, sock ‘um robots?
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If you or Jonathan could provide some insight into how motorsports are simultaneously at the bleeding edge of technology while data logging barely works and seemingly every online store is from 1997....I'd appreciate it.
My partner is ripping her hair out dealing with the poorly documented lap timing for my local racing org. While I have to buy slicks via text message
My partner is ripping her hair out dealing with the poorly documented lap timing for my local racing org. While I have to buy slicks via text message
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I don't know, F1 drivers have raced along side the likes of Maldonado and Stroll full well knowing they could crash into them at any second. Seems like racing a computer might be safer?
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On that topic I would also strongly recommend reading Hazel's piece about going to Saudi Arabia to report on Formula E, as a woman. It's much more thoughtful than you might expect:
View: https://hsouthwellfe.medium.com/what-its-actually-like-to-visit-riyadh-alone-for-formula-e-ce88cfc0f4cd
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I think that the "high performance" RC-cars would get absolutely demolished by standard human-driven ones. The trick of remote piloting is that you're missing enormous amounts of information that your body picks up - back forces from the wheel, G-forces, the sound of the engine, everything. I fly FPV drones, and yeah you can do all sorts of amazing things with them, but I think it's less because they're high performance and more because when I crash I can immediately fly again. That works with a 3" or even 5" drone most of the time, it's NOT true for 7" drones or bigger, and it's definitely not true for a race car.
Unrelated, but I'm certainly a proponent of RC and autonomous vehicles as sport - but I kind of want to see weapons on them? It would be super fun to watch RC aircraft dogfights in a designated arena area well away from humans.
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Related to your FPV drone flying, and autonomous vs human control, IEEE published this in 2022:
Autonomous Drones Challenge Human Champions in First “Fair” Race
Watching robots operate with speed and precision is always impressive, if not, at this point, always surprising. Sophisticated sensors and fast computing means that a powerful and agile robot, like a drone, that knows exactly where it is and exactly where it’s going can reliably move in highly dynam
spectrum.ieee.org
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Okay, hear me out... Let's do this for Robot Wars.
I would pay good money to see teams spend months building and training a bot they have absolutely zero control over once it's in the ring.
I would pay good money to see teams spend months building and training a bot they have absolutely zero control over once it's in the ring.
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Zero excuse for Indy Autonomous Challenge not to be discussed or even linked.
arstechnica.com
Maybe a visit to the next race (September 6th, 2024) is in order (only a 3 hr drive from Chicago)?
No driver? No problem—this is the Indy Autonomous Challenge
Ars meets the college engineers who hope to revolutionize racing.
You have already forgotten Marbula E by Jelle's Marble Runs?
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