30 years later, FreeDOS is still keeping the dream of the command prompt alive
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I really appreciate the devs for this project!
I’ve been contemplating running freedos on my old eepc 700 series so I can run Ultima 7 on it.
It would probably be just fine except there are no DOS drivers for the audio chipset on it.
I could run Antix Linux on it and emulate (antix actually runs good on it) but there is definite joy in going native bare metal.
I’ve been contemplating running freedos on my old eepc 700 series so I can run Ultima 7 on it.
It would probably be just fine except there are no DOS drivers for the audio chipset on it.
I could run Antix Linux on it and emulate (antix actually runs good on it) but there is definite joy in going native bare metal.
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Back in the day, DOS was used for bit banging. This was done with the handshake lines on the UART. DOS timing was reasonably steady, perhaps because it wasn't multitasking.
en.m.wikipedia.org
While some application were for generating signals like SPI, there were radio demodulation schemes using slicers.
wiki.radioreference.com
With the serial ports starting to vaporize, code was written to use soundcards for the task. Today the applications use SDR.
This old school stuff required booting to DOS, not a DOS terminal in windows. I'm pretty sure the last implementation I did was with FreeDOS. I had a notebook with PCMCIA or maybe cardbus and cards from a company called socketcom.
I don't want to post an eBay ad but these cards still exist. Here is a description:
"Socket (SL0723-116) Ruggedized Dual Serial I/O. Socket HIS chip for compatibility with virtually all PC Card (PCMCIA) compatible computers, works in Type II or Type III PC Card slot. Date First AvailableJune 21, 2002."
Bit banging - Wikipedia
While some application were for generating signals like SPI, there were radio demodulation schemes using slicers.
Data Slicers - The RadioReference Wiki
With the serial ports starting to vaporize, code was written to use soundcards for the task. Today the applications use SDR.
This old school stuff required booting to DOS, not a DOS terminal in windows. I'm pretty sure the last implementation I did was with FreeDOS. I had a notebook with PCMCIA or maybe cardbus and cards from a company called socketcom.
I don't want to post an eBay ad but these cards still exist. Here is a description:
"Socket (SL0723-116) Ruggedized Dual Serial I/O. Socket HIS chip for compatibility with virtually all PC Card (PCMCIA) compatible computers, works in Type II or Type III PC Card slot. Date First AvailableJune 21, 2002."
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About a year ago, I undertook a project to spin up some VMs running both FreeDOS, and then MS-DOS starting with 4.0 up through 6.22 (and getting Win 3.0 then Win 3.11 up and running on MS DOS).
Because, while I don't really need DOS skills exactly, anymore for any job I would ever be likely doing or any personal project, I feel like it's a good mental exercise, sort of like Sudoku for IT nerds (yes, I also realize Sudoku is Sudoku for IT nerds lol; but humor me).
Like, playing around with tweaking autoexec.bat and config.sys to maximimze lower memory, get device drivers working, etc - it was a good way for me to learn about computers and thinking about troubleshooting and analyzing computer issues, and it still is.
Plus, I suppose, as a Gen X who grew up with DOS, it was a nice trip down memory lane, but one I could keep as long or short as I wanted to lol.
Because, while I don't really need DOS skills exactly, anymore for any job I would ever be likely doing or any personal project, I feel like it's a good mental exercise, sort of like Sudoku for IT nerds (yes, I also realize Sudoku is Sudoku for IT nerds lol; but humor me).
Like, playing around with tweaking autoexec.bat and config.sys to maximimze lower memory, get device drivers working, etc - it was a good way for me to learn about computers and thinking about troubleshooting and analyzing computer issues, and it still is.
Plus, I suppose, as a Gen X who grew up with DOS, it was a nice trip down memory lane, but one I could keep as long or short as I wanted to lol.
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I've only booted FreeDOS a few times, but I regularly use its distribution images to pick out utilities I want to use in DOSBox. FreeBASIC has also been a useful way to write my own utilities. Projects like these may seem like silly anachronisms at first blush, but I'm glad these exist.
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FWIW There is a reimplementation of the Ultima 7 engine that also includes QoL improvements. When I remember the name I will drop a link here if nobody else does.
EDIT: Exult: https://exult.sourceforge.io/
EDIT 2: Github link: https://github.com/exult/exult
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I remember this article! And FreeDOS 1.0. And… I’m going to go eat some fibre(channel) and have a long sleep, I’m feeling old.
Seriously, it is weird seeing an anniversary article of an anniversary article for a retro software project. But good weird.
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For similar reasons, I’ve been wanting to build a modern digital audio workstation or multitrack recorder for FreeDOS that can interact directly with hardware to minimise latency, and use hardware interrupts for timing to reduce jitter. My first forays into computer music were on DOS and Windows 3.0 where the timing (particularly for UART MIDI) was much more stable than can be achieved today with USB MIDI on a full protected mode, pre-emptive multitasking system with a hardware abstraction layer.Back in the day, DOS was used for bit banging. This was done with the handshake lines on the UART. DOS timing was reasonably steady, perhaps because it wasn't multitasking.
Bit banging - Wikipedia
While some application were for generating signals like SPI, there were radio demodulation schemes using slicers.
Data Slicers - The RadioReference Wiki
With the serial ports starting to vaporize, code was written to use soundcards for the task. Today the applications use SDR.
This old school stuff required booting to DOS, not a DOS terminal in windows. I'm pretty sure the last implementation I did was with FreeDOS. I had a notebook with PCMCIA or maybe cardbus and cards from a company called socketcom.
I don't want to post an eBay ad but these cards still exist. Here is a description:
"Socket (SL0723-116) Ruggedized Dual Serial I/O. Socket HIS chip for compatibility with virtually all PC Card (PCMCIA) compatible computers, works in Type II or Type III PC Card slot. Date First AvailableJune 21, 2002."
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Fuzzypiggy
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Much as I find some retro tech too "rose tinted" and trying to make something look better than it actually was, FreeDOS is a very valuable project that's helping preserve DOS software that some companies out there are still using for business.
I cut my teeth on DOS in 1987 as a teen having been through the whole 8bit micro scene since i as 9 years old. I got obessed with DOS to the point I managed to get a book and taught myself assembler when I was 17 so I could learn how code TSRs and prank viruses, simpler times. DOS is still revelvant and DOS Batch skills are somehting I still have to use to this day every so often in some of the automation I do for some older legacy software to this day.
DOS knowledge I learned as a teen secured me my first couple of IT jobs. That's enough nostalgia BS from this old fart!
I cut my teeth on DOS in 1987 as a teen having been through the whole 8bit micro scene since i as 9 years old. I got obessed with DOS to the point I managed to get a book and taught myself assembler when I was 17 so I could learn how code TSRs and prank viruses, simpler times. DOS is still revelvant and DOS Batch skills are somehting I still have to use to this day every so often in some of the automation I do for some older legacy software to this day.
DOS knowledge I learned as a teen secured me my first couple of IT jobs. That's enough nostalgia BS from this old fart!
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Dell actually recommend (but don't support) using FreeDOS from a USB stick to perform BIOS/UEFI upgrades on some of their devices, if you're running Linux.
I can report that it works very smoothly (as long as you make sure you reply "no" when FreeDOS asks if you want to actually install it).
I can report that it works very smoothly (as long as you make sure you reply "no" when FreeDOS asks if you want to actually install it).
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I used DOSBox for that kind of thing, and Win98 in a VirtualBox VM for some olde but not DOS stuff. DOSBox-X is a DOSBox fork that seems for me to work a little better than the original, and supposedly will now support installation of any of the DOS-based Windows versions. I was able to get 3.1 working in the old DOSBox without much problem, which helped with things like the old Train Dispatcher game, and it and the original Railroad Tycoon and Rollercoaster Tycoon* also work well in it.
The DOSBoxes have the advantage of providing their own VM with software emulation of a variety of older processors and adjustable processor timing. The problem I had with DOS5 and even to a degree Windows 98 in VirtualBox was the speed: modern processors are way to fast for a lot of older software. At best, games may be unplayably fast without major tweaking, and at worst they may just not work. One example: I could not run original Tetris in DOS5 under VirtualBox - died with divide-by-zero errors. It works fine in DOSBox.
Haven't tried to run an old copy of Flight Sim in DOS in a VM yet, though. That might be interesting, if I still have it (voyage to the bottom of the junk drawer...), and if it's on 3 1/2" floppies not 5 1/4" (can't get a 5 1/4" drive to work on modern hardware or in a USB case).
* there's now an open-source Rollercoaster Tycoon package in active development (OpenRCT2 of course) that runs all the original and RCT2 content, and it works well on a variety of hardware.
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I figured this thread would fill with people dissing FreeDOS in light of "modern OSes". Instead, I'm loving watching this thread fill with people talking about how much it means to them to have their favorite old DOS software running under FreeDOS. Props to those keeping it alive and well.
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I actually named my 12 year old Tiger Oscar after him. Swim, Swim, Hungry.
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I has to do some BIOS related stuff (try to burn in a serial number on a home built PC so that it would work with Windows Autopilot) so I used FreeDOS. Man that brought back memories, hadn’t had to boot into DOS for literally 30 years (was an OS/2 fanboy shortly before I jumped to 386BSD).
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CP/M on the Comodore 128 has entered the chat.Were I to go down a nostalgic CLI rabbit hole, it would probably look more like this:
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DeschutesCore
Ars Scholae Palatinae
There's a huge resurgence of retro FM synth production across YouTube lately. Amiga, C64, PC all coming back to the zeitgeist, and I am here for it.
Sidenote:
I'm also pleased to see demoscene stuff is kinda tagging along for it's own series of anniversaries, hoping we may see an new article on Ars soon.
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I so miss my Apple II days -- my first exposure to computers, in my local college. I eventually managed to buy a IIGS. Moved from there to an AST computer (Cyrix 486 clone) with MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1 after it was clear Apple had no intention of supporting my investment and I needed something newer and better.Were I to go down a nostalgic CLI rabbit hole, it would probably look more like this:
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Ugh, why do people care so much about such an old OS, given the existence of modern operation systems which are far more capable? I personally am looking forward to leaving all of you losers stuck in your old ways in the dust when BeOS takes over the world!
(In fact, I am not normally into poetry, but I fully intend to write a haiku celebrating this momentous event when it finally happens!)
(In fact, I am not normally into poetry, but I fully intend to write a haiku celebrating this momentous event when it finally happens!)
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Yea you can run that in Linux or windows, but not in DOS (I don’t think). It’s better in many ways but it’s not “native” on DOS.
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El Torogato
Smack-Fu Master, in training
FreeDOS has been my friend for many years. I occasionally still run up my old copy of AutoCAD for 3d household projects. Many thanks to Jim Hall and any helpers he may have had.
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If the number of people I follow on leading-edge social media who started getting into retrocomputing in the last 5 years are any indication, FreeDOS is likely to be seeing increased interest in the future.
Obviously there are multiple layers of selection bias involved, but my feed is stuffed with project updates on all manner of 80s to early 90s class microcomputer builds, every day. Not all or even many will run DOS, but some definitely will.
Obviously there are multiple layers of selection bias involved, but my feed is stuffed with project updates on all manner of 80s to early 90s class microcomputer builds, every day. Not all or even many will run DOS, but some definitely will.
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Writing a basic DOS virus is a really great way to learn a ton of computing concepts (as well as some weird 16-bit x86 ones) in one small functional package. I'd honestly recommend it as a starter project for anybody who wants to go into embedded development on a hardware tier where no interpreted languages, garbage collection, etc will be available.
Edit:
You too?
I did this on a 386 with one floppy drive running in a literal cardboard box, because my parents didn't give a shit about supporting my interests. Taught myself hexadecimal math with paper flash cards I made myself.
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DeschutesCore
Ars Scholae Palatinae
I suggest those that want to understand the core fundamentals start with writing a bootloader. It's not nearly as complex as it sounds, but it quickly becomes so as you learn to blank the screen, interrupt A20, manage and navigate memory and paging, sprinkle in some input handlers and viola, you're dealing with every damned core component.
How to develop your own Boot Loader
This article describes the first steps in low-level programming on the example of developing of simple boot loader
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No they aren't because this isn't a generic meme it's from Commander Keen. And "derp" has been a thing for like 15 years now. That was a Millennial thing.
Edit: also, I found this: https://www.dopefish.com – dopefish has waaaay more cameos that I knew!
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I was joking around. I know how old the dopefish is. I was there playing the first game it appeared in. Swim Swim Hungry and all that. I was just making fun of silly stuff I don't understand like "derp". I had no idea even that was that old, since I only started hearing "derp" about 5 years ago myself I presumed it was "the kids" who came up with it. I thought it was pretty clear I was joking there.
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The myth that Windows detected unofficial versions of DOS like DR-DOS is untrue. There was "AARD code" in the Windows 3.1 beta, but it was not enabled in the final releases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AARD_code
However it's not unreasonable for it to detect and not run on unsupported versions of DOS since that could result in unexpected behavior, which from a user's perspective would be a Windows issue when it wasn't.
Also MS-DOS and PC-DOS were the same thing until about 1993.
Edit: it's not unreasonable*
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