Presumably they meant the mileage limit on the warranty since that's the only bit dependent on how much you drive. That is an awful lot of driving for 5 years though. There are definitely some people that drive that much, but saying "real world" to imply "typical" is a stretch.
I could go dig out my travel charger and see what the power factor is for mine on L1 charging. I don't have a way to measure it for L2 charging though.Nobody bats an eye at every house having air conditioners with large electric motors that kick on all the time. Make it is an EV charger and suddenly they lose their minds.
There is an interesting thing to consider that AC units are most likely more difficult for the grid to handle due to being large inductive sporadic loads versus EV chargers which most likely have significantly higher power factors. (If anybody can find anything looking at the power factor of specific EV models I would love to read it.)
Other than the fact Elon didn't like our coverage because we didn't suck up to him?
Yeah it is a tricky thing to measure because the EVSE doesn't really control the power factor. It is all in the charger in the vehicle, so your power factor will change depending on what vehicle you are charging.I could go dig out my travel charger and see what the power factor is for mine on L1 charging. I don't have a way to measure it for L2 charging though.
Other than that somebody has to buy a new car or else there are no used cars.Once again, for the people in the back, 75 percent of all car buyers in the US buy used cars. There is no reason why someone has to buy a new car.
Generally speaking, 4WD vehicles lock all the wheels together leading to "crab walking" while turning on pavement. Because of this, they disclaim that 4WD is only legal off road. AWD cars on the other hand are loaded up with differentials so that the wheels all turn independently and have no low-traction requirements. I don't think how this is implemented comes in to play. Dual motor, tri-motor and 4-motor AWD EVs exist, using differentials to balance the absence of motors. There are also AWD hybrids with no mechanical connection to the back wheels - they just put a motor on the back axel.I'm still not totally sure about this but I don't think there's such a thing as an electric AWD. The ones with four driven wheels have a motor on each axle and no central driveshaft so they're really low-clearance 4WDs.
I would expect the charger to have a good power factor, but I've never seen it measured. I'll give it a try.Yeah it is a tricky thing to measure because the EVSE doesn't really control the power factor. It is all in the charger in the vehicle, so your power factor will change depending on what vehicle you are charging.
If you can measure power factor for L1 charging though it should give you a good idea of power factor for L2 charging for the same vehicle.
They're supposed to be power factor corrected like a switching power supply. TI makes a controller for this specific function.Yeah it is a tricky thing to measure because the EVSE doesn't really control the power factor. It is all in the charger in the vehicle, so your power factor will change depending on what vehicle you are charging.
If you can measure power factor for L1 charging though it should give you a good idea of power factor for L2 charging for the same vehicle.
Define thousands upon thousands down... is $3k a lot for a lease? (I honestly don't know)/ This Nissan Leaf lease seems pretty reasonable at $52/month with $3k down. That comes to $5k over 3 years total - which is probably roughly the depreciation of a vehicle over 3 years anyway. A friend leasec Nissan Leaf like this and drove it for his 90-100 mile round trip commute (they closed his satellite office and he had to drive to another one), he said that the savings in the gas was more than the cost of the lease.LMAO... literally NONE of these can be leased even close to $200 a month, so I have no idea where the author is pulling that from. Unless you put thousands upon thousands down, in which case - why lease? You'll never get that money back.
So that's what, 20,000 miles a year? Pretty healthy usage. Did you get that sweet free Supercharging and go bananas?Our 2018 (July) Tesla Model 3 (LR RWD) came with an 8 year, 120,000 mile battery warranty.
We are now 148 miles from the expiration of that warranty.
There are a number of ways in which leasing, yes with the downpayment included, can make more sense than buying. It's not a 'scam', it's simply something you have to calculate based on your needs.
This is really basic stuff that a million articles have been written about, so I don't see the point in rehashing it all in the comments.
But I do think that for anyone who has uncertainty about the life of batteries that it's one more reason to consider leasing, since that's removed from the equation.
You know, our recently purchased almost new EV is very close to what we paid for our small SUV 25 years ago. The SUV still runs and drives. Passed it along to our son.Not that it's really all that important, but a Civic doesn't actually start at 24k, it's 25k, and it goes up from there pretty easily. From Edmunds:
View attachment 82244
People just need to adjust to the reality of car prices. What you bought your car for years ago isn't relevant to the world now.
In a funny counterstory, I had to drive our son to the gas station in our EV b/c his CRV ran out of gas this morning. Unfortunately it left the interior of my EV smelling like a leaky gas can. I'm sure that will pass.Quick story - our CFO is a moron who drove his car until it ran out of charge, and then wasted valuable employee's time to pull his chestnuts out of the fire.
I mean, it's not like every single EV out there does not have a clear and highly visible indicator showing the state of charge and remaining range. If your CFO can't track a single number on a car dash, then how can that person track the hundreds of financial metrics to do their CFO job?
Also a reasonable take. Lease now, to get into an EV, and wait for the dust to settle before you consider buying.An EV screams for a lease and not buy.
The tech moves too fast imo.
This is always the issue with tech: there’s always a new shinier version about to come out.An EV screams for a lease and not buy.
The tech moves too fast imo.
You mean like the Corvette? And the Ferrari?The Fiat 500e is hilariously overpriced for something that is really only suitable for driving to the grocery store with at max one adult passenger.
Did you miss my footnote? I specifically excluded Chinese models like BYD for that very reason. All of the four I mentioned are made in the EU by EU or EU‑US companies. Assembled in Zaragoza, Turin, Douai, Trnava factories. ETA: Citroën even hinted at a later, cheaper 200km e‑C3 with a 20,000€ price target.
My very first car was a Puegot 504 that was more rust than metal and had a gas tank from a completely different car. It revved at high speed when you pressed the clutch. I do now appreciate a car that doesn't do that.Part of the reason cars are more expensive now is our expectations have changed.
That's why most people buy used cars.Sticking with ICE vehicles for now Corolla Base MSRP for 22K no special tax credit needed etc.
let me know when a peoples EV shows up. Something for the working person who just wants affordable transportation to get to work and do errands.
The insurance on my EV is within $10 of my ICEV family vehicle.BS. I challenge you to find a common EV that insurance companies don't touch. Sure, you can point at a Fisker or Cybertruck, but any common EV should not be a problem.
In fact, many of them a dumping Kia ICE vehicles because of the lack of immobilizer and the spate of "Kia boys" joyrides that have been occuring.
You get downvoted, (this is expected this is an ev thread on Ars) but you're right. 49k for the Kona is double what I paid for my Corolla, if this is the new normal, I guess I will walk and bike a lot in the future.Those are certainly not in the affordable range in Canada. The Nissan Ariya starts at 55834 and the Volvo Ex30 is 56450, the Hyundai Kona is 49k CAD.
Depending where you live there may be provincial and federal rebates but the prices are eyewatering.
If the author can point me to where I can get such a deal- any part of the country- I would buy. This list seems, er, made-up.
let me know when a peoples EV shows up. Something for the working person who just wants affordable transportation to get to work and do errands.
I'm 5'11" and have no problems driving the Leaf. It is quite comfortable. Maybe the seat wasn't far enough back for you? Or you daily a pickup truck normally?Has anyone driven a newer (last 5 years) model Nissan Leaf recently? I was wondering if they managed to make the drivers seating area able to accommodate anyone over 5' 9". I have tried a couple of times to sit in a Leaf at a car show, only to feel like I'm sitting in a clown car with my legs jammed up. It wasn't just me that I saw this happen to.
We have to make a point of driving our ICEV once a week to keep the 12V battery charged. The EV gets everything done that we need doing.We actually find our EV the more useful car. My wife is out of town in the EV. She didn't have to stop at the gas station before leaving, she didn't have to stop for juice when visiting her parents, she didn't have to stop while running around there, and she won't have to stop to come back. If she still had her previous ICEV, she would have to get gas on her way out (because you never just get to start with a full tank) and she would have had to stop somewhere on the way back, or maybe get home with an absolutely empty tank and fill up first thing the next time we go anywhere. Yesterday I drove my ICEV a few miles to get lunch, but since I didn't get gas the last time I went somewhere, the tank was down to 1/4, and I don't have a gas pump in my garage, so I had to stop to put $50 in my tank. $50 in the EV is like 1300 miles and it charges completely unattended in the garage every night.
My ICEV has a battery tender. Originally that was because it spends the winter sitting in the garage, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't get some use year round.We have to make a point of driving our ICEV once a week to keep the 12V battery charged. The EV gets everything done that we need doing.
Oh, it sounded a bit to me like you were saying the cheaper EU models I listed would be harshly affected as well. And yes, even here in the EU I am quite concerned about Chinese subsidies and BEV dumping, for some pretty obvious reasons. I want cheap BEVs as much as anybody, but not when nobody here could afford them due to local automotive industries here going bust. The whole automotive sector employs some 14 million Europeans after all, IIRC. Not much keen on losing 14 million jobs due to Chinese subsidies, myself!No, I did see your note, I just felt like noting that its hardly just the US that's scared about EV dumping.
I looked up the price of an OEM EV battery for my EV (Kona). $12K from an online OEM source. The Leaf Plus replacement battery was $15K last time I looked.$7,150, down from $8500 last time I brought this up weeks ago.
If your battery isn't covered by insurance, why on earth are you insisting upon a brand spanking new OEM battery assembly in the first place? When the transmission went on my ICE minivan, I bought a rebuilt, not the Chrysler/Dodge parts inventory gold plated whizzu.
Sticking with ICE vehicles for now Corolla Base MSRP for 22K no special tax credit needed etc.
let me know when a peoples EV shows up. Something for the working person who just wants affordable transportation to get to work and do errands.
This is always the issue with tech: there’s always a new shinier version about to come out.
However, the old car will still work in its principal role of being a motor with four wheels no matter how shiny the new car is. Unlike phones where the principal use is to play candy crush, which would stop working when their servers updated and you couldn’t install the new client on your old phone.
My ICEV has a battery tender. Originally that was because it spends the winter sitting in the garage, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't get some use year round.
Low mileage used Kona? Leaf? Bolt? Our 30K mile Kona was ~$20K. You could go for the lower trim packages and save even more money.I just wish there were more EVs focused on being “wildly practical”. Think something like a Honda Fit or Toyota Matrix: small enough to be a cinch to park without being tiny, fold-flat back seats to get you cargo space for days, a hatch that doesn’t constrict vertical cargo volume like trunks and liftgates do, and a balanced feature set that covers the basics well. The kind of car that someone wouldn’t mind using as a workhorse that’s bound to accumulate some dings.
I wouldn’t mind paying a premium for this, but it doesn’t really exist. The closest are perhaps the Kona EV and EX-30 but they chase the premium segment too much and don’t have fold-flat seats.
The Leaf is a fine car if charged L1/L2. Too many L3 charges and it will take a toll. That said, my employer has several Leafs and none of them are having serious battery degradation problems. Also 80%-20% rule is important and Nissan removed the automatic charging limits. That was short sighted. What we do is plug them after use and set a timer so they charge in the early morning so that when they are needed, the charging is just reaching 80%.Anyone who's done a modicum of research on EVs has come across the articles and stories of Leaf batteries prematurely dying from not having a proper water cooled system. There's just no excuse to not use one, as early EVs on the cheaper side of the scale, like the Chevy Spark and Fiat 500e, had liquid cooled batteries.
The Bolt 1LT is $19,995 MSRP after rebate and you want me to spend $24,500 on a Corolla Hybrid?!? You rich people and your >$20k carsNon-exhaustive list:
Mazda 3
Honda Civic
Hyundai Elantra
Chevy Malibu ($25,100 technically is over)
Nissan Versa
Nissan Sentra
Toyota Corolla, AND Corolla Hybrid
Subaru Imprezza
Subaru Legacy
Ford Maverick
Kia Soul
Kia Seltos
Kia Forte
Mazda CX-30
Really hurts the narrative that EVs are anything but rich people's playthings even still.
Your logic is disjointed.LMAO... literally NONE of these can be leased even close to $200 a month, so I have no idea where the author is pulling that from. Unless you put thousands upon thousands down, in which case - why lease? You'll never get that money back.
Used cars serve this purpose. Always have. There are VERY nice used cars with 30K miles on them if you look a bit.This is really a case where average doesn't tell much, and median would be more meaningful. Obviously there are plenty of mid-price cars, but there are also a lot of $24k Civics rolling around my town, and a few $200k Mercedes. That average is going to misconstrue where the greatest need is.
It's great that there's all these electric cars in the mid-30s, but we really need something in the 20s to serve that market. Even with gas cars, it's already a shame how much subcompacts have gone up in price. As recently as 5-6 years ago, there were solid options in the upper teens.
Thanks. Surprised the credit was mentioned on some vehicles but not others.I believe the Model 3 RWD and Long Range AWD are no longer eligible because they now use Lithium-Iron-phosphate batteries from China.
The Model 3 Performance and all flavors of Model Y use Lithium-Ion packs and are eligible for $7500.
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Federal Tax Credits for Plug-in Electric and Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles Purchased in 2023 or After
Save up to $7,500 on qualifying vehicles!fueleconomy.gov