After you die, your Steam games will be stuck in legal limbo
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
A few comments here have touched on or alluded to the bigger issue of what happens to a person's digital assets when they shuffle off this mortal coil. What about the library of Amazon-purchased digital books? What about "owned" movies and video assets in Prime and AppleTV?
Should we be making trusts or LLCs and buying all our assets in the name of those things so that the trust or LLC can continue to be accessed by one's trustees or heirs or, in other words, IRL-descendants?
Should we be making trusts or LLCs and buying all our assets in the name of those things so that the trust or LLC can continue to be accessed by one's trustees or heirs or, in other words, IRL-descendants?
Upvote
65
(65
/
0)
Yeah, this problem is intractable without new legislation from Congress establishing a legal framework recognizing digital property rights.
Upvote
14
(14
/
0)
Is their policy different? GOG is my vendor of choice so I know you can download the game to your HD but can an heir receive the right to do the same via a will?
As we are moving more to a subscription economy, this is something that needs further clarification in law.
Upvote
25
(25
/
0)
I certainly prefer them as well, when the option is available; but I'd be curious whether the legal situation is actually any different.
GoG specifically can't do anything about you just passing your heirs a drive full of installers; but their user agreement describes the license as "for your personal use" and 3.3 states that "Your GOG account and GOG content are personal to you and cannot be shared with, sold, gifted or transferred to anyone else." and (f) of "Rules for Using GOG Services" says "Don’t share, ‘buy’, ‘sell’, transfer, gift, lend, steal, misappropriate or misuse GOG accounts. GOG keys/codes can only be gifted or transferred or used in the ways permitted by GOG."
You obviously have a bigger practical problem with Steam, since you'll need to defeat at least some technical measures to keep using steam games if you lose access to the steam account, while you'd only lose access to redownloads and updates, if any, if you no longer have access to a GoG account; but it looks like the actual position of the two is basically thee same (presumably for a similar combination of reasons related to not wanting the hassle of having processing proofs of death and disposition of estates added to their support process, and potentially having listed some or all of their catalog under agreements with publishers that limit the terms under which they can sell it).
Upvote
59
(59
/
0)
Upvote
34
(35
/
-1)
Legally, GOG is almost certainly in the same position as Valve: they're kind of stuck with what the publishers allow. As a practical matter, the absence of any sort of DRM on GOG titles makes it possible to leave your heir a hard drive full of installers. But it's entirely possible that the publishers of those titles could still sue your heir for copyright infringement.
Upvote
46
(46
/
0)
I've used my late wife's Steam account as my alt account for the last 12 years.
-The password for the primary email account is all powerful, then you can reset passwords for everything else.
-The password for the primary email account is all powerful, then you can reset passwords for everything else.
Upvote
29
(29
/
0)
- Add bookmark
- Featured
- #51
I really wonder what would happen under the EU or national laws here. Could be quite an interesting court case!
Turns out quite a few lawyers have apparently already considered this:
Vučković, Romana & Kanceljak, Ivana. (2019). DOES THE RIGHT TO USE DIGITAL CONTENT AFFECT OUR DIGITAL INHERITANCE?. EU and comparative law issues and challenges series (ECLIC). 3. 10.25234/eclic/9029. [source]
EDIT: Interesting read so far. German Federal Court of Justice already had a case of bereaved parents suing Facebook to access their dead daughter's messages on the platform under German inheritance laws – the court sided with the parents, ordering Facebook to give them full access to the locked "memorial" profile and the sent messages. Though that's a different issue than inheriting a game store account, still the main argument of universal succession was upheld for a digital contract:
"The most important argument was that their daughter’s contract position is transferable according to principle of universal succession. BGH explained that the provisions of terms and conditions do not explicitly exclude inheritability"
Mind you, that was a very specific case where the daughter died in a suspect way and the parents wanted to find out whether it was a suicide or not – quite different case from Steam account inheritance, plus Germany obviously uses a variant of Civil law, so precedents don't really work the US way.
EDIT2: "In other cases, for example in case of accounts created for purchase and music listening, there is no such justification for non‑transferability. Courts should declare such clauses unfair and accordingly null. Additionally, it can be argued that the principle of universal succession should in some cases prevail over the non-transferability clauses" and "When it comes to the inheritability of digital data and digital content, since there are not any special rules in the inheritance law in Croatia applicable in this case, principle of universal succession also applies".
The authors argues that digital inheritance is basically already true under their existing laws in most cases and any licence terms against that automatically invalid*, but that a provision of digital inheritance should be put into later EU directives, as it would simplify it for the heirs, not having to resort to lengthy court procedures. The article was written before the Digital Goods Directive and DSA came into effect, so it might not be entirely up to date. Even if GDG and DSA would likely only strengthen that position of digital inheritability.
Interesting read indeed, even if IANAL!
*: Generally, under the EU law, most licence terms or ToS that contradict legal provisions or take away consumer rights are not only automatically null and voided, but even just publishing such illegal ToS can get the company doing so a pretty hefty fine from the regulator.
Turns out quite a few lawyers have apparently already considered this:
Vučković, Romana & Kanceljak, Ivana. (2019). DOES THE RIGHT TO USE DIGITAL CONTENT AFFECT OUR DIGITAL INHERITANCE?. EU and comparative law issues and challenges series (ECLIC). 3. 10.25234/eclic/9029. [source]
EDIT: Interesting read so far. German Federal Court of Justice already had a case of bereaved parents suing Facebook to access their dead daughter's messages on the platform under German inheritance laws – the court sided with the parents, ordering Facebook to give them full access to the locked "memorial" profile and the sent messages. Though that's a different issue than inheriting a game store account, still the main argument of universal succession was upheld for a digital contract:
"The most important argument was that their daughter’s contract position is transferable according to principle of universal succession. BGH explained that the provisions of terms and conditions do not explicitly exclude inheritability"
Mind you, that was a very specific case where the daughter died in a suspect way and the parents wanted to find out whether it was a suicide or not – quite different case from Steam account inheritance, plus Germany obviously uses a variant of Civil law, so precedents don't really work the US way.
EDIT2: "In other cases, for example in case of accounts created for purchase and music listening, there is no such justification for non‑transferability. Courts should declare such clauses unfair and accordingly null. Additionally, it can be argued that the principle of universal succession should in some cases prevail over the non-transferability clauses" and "When it comes to the inheritability of digital data and digital content, since there are not any special rules in the inheritance law in Croatia applicable in this case, principle of universal succession also applies".
The authors argues that digital inheritance is basically already true under their existing laws in most cases and any licence terms against that automatically invalid*, but that a provision of digital inheritance should be put into later EU directives, as it would simplify it for the heirs, not having to resort to lengthy court procedures. The article was written before the Digital Goods Directive and DSA came into effect, so it might not be entirely up to date. Even if GDG and DSA would likely only strengthen that position of digital inheritability.
Interesting read indeed, even if IANAL!
*: Generally, under the EU law, most licence terms or ToS that contradict legal provisions or take away consumer rights are not only automatically null and voided, but even just publishing such illegal ToS can get the company doing so a pretty hefty fine from the regulator.
Last edited:
Upvote
51
(51
/
0)
Valves position seems unclear. Pragmatically people don't care much about their game libraries so they can get away with being vague unless their policy is contested in court. But I think they'd be hard pressed to prevent me from saying that my library is owned by a trust I created. Then I'd name my kid as a beneficiary and he'd have as much ownership as me.
Valve can enforce one user at a time policies but I don't think they can really enforce a single legal owner. Not a lawyer and would welcome insights from those that are.
Valve can enforce one user at a time policies but I don't think they can really enforce a single legal owner. Not a lawyer and would welcome insights from those that are.
Upvote
10
(10
/
0)
I’d also consider it acceptable for a legal restriction that companies must use the term “rental” for anything which doesn’t have full rights of resale, transfer, or cannot run without their servers. That would set clear expectations and help devalue restricted content.
Upvote
43
(43
/
0)
At this point it seems more likely that they'd enshrine an obligation to pay a heriot to your liege-licensor for the privilege of receiving your inheritance than anything else.
The idea that little people actually get to own things without the permission of their betters is actually something of a historical novelty; and a lot of its ostensible friends only actually show up when it's deregulation or tax rate lobbying time; and are completely mysteriously silent when their employers are busy abolishing private property by contractual means.
Upvote
14
(14
/
0)
My Steam account is about 20 years old now. Assuming Valve an Steam stick around, who’s to say I didn’t live to 200 years old and am playing games in 2200?
There have been pipe dreams (and nightmares) about digitally uploading your brain to a computer. Will I be able to access my Steam library there? That would solve a lot of problems with ergonomics
There have been pipe dreams (and nightmares) about digitally uploading your brain to a computer. Will I be able to access my Steam library there? That would solve a lot of problems with ergonomics
Upvote
26
(26
/
0)
Why? It’s not that I disagree, but you posit it as a fact.
For me, personally, the account does not have value but what’s in there (the games, saves, and whatnot) does. If these digital assets are transferred to someone else, but the account itself was deleted, that would also be fine.
The question really is what you bought. And typically we buy a life-long non-transferable non-exclusive license to consume the content. Is that not enough? Do you really think others would like my old games after I’m dead? I can see some cases in which that would be so, but not nearly everyone feels that much for their old games/music/movies.
Upvote
-10
(3
/
-13)
The obvious workaround is to be appointed the personal representative of the deceased and obtain login credentials through that way.
Or they just write down their login credentials and we wait a hundred years to see if Steam starts getting pissy about accounts older than the oldest living human.
Or they just write down their login credentials and we wait a hundred years to see if Steam starts getting pissy about accounts older than the oldest living human.
Upvote
7
(7
/
0)
Well, seeing as how the Steam age check accepts Feb 31, 1900 as a valid date of birth, I'm going to assume Steam never gets around to noticing that.
Upvote
37
(37
/
0)
The thought of this almost being a concern as I approach 40’s creeps me out. My introduction through an orange Box purchase seems like yesterday.
Upvote
10
(10
/
0)
I'm fairly certain my future children will not be interested in playing any of my Steam games, just like I'm not interested in acquiring my parents vinyl or CD collection: their tastes are mostly different than mine. But it is a shame that I can't bequeath my Steam library to ANYone - some friends could get a lot of use out of it!
This whole thing needs legal challenges and changes to law, because the premise of buying licenses to access digital media is solely a method of getting around First Sale doctrine. Back when we were buying vinyl and CD and VHS, we knew then, just as today with digital media, that we were not buying the right to own that music/movie/whatever and begin making derivative works from, broadcasting, etc, but we did have the ability to gift that physical item or sell it or trade it. We need that ability with our digital collections. License holders can get effed.
This whole thing needs legal challenges and changes to law, because the premise of buying licenses to access digital media is solely a method of getting around First Sale doctrine. Back when we were buying vinyl and CD and VHS, we knew then, just as today with digital media, that we were not buying the right to own that music/movie/whatever and begin making derivative works from, broadcasting, etc, but we did have the ability to gift that physical item or sell it or trade it. We need that ability with our digital collections. License holders can get effed.
Upvote
22
(23
/
-1)
We need a bill of digital consumer rights. All purchases whether physical or digital should belong to the buyer under the first sale doctrine and should be fully transferable at will. All products that rely on external services for functionality should be required to carry an expiration date, before which buyers should be entitled to a full refund should support be withdrawn.
Upvote
11
(12
/
-1)
Ehhh, losing 400+ games will suck, but I'm dead so I guess I won't care.
So glad I downloaded every GOG installer w/ goodies for the titles I own. 8TB holds them comfortably, and is easy enough to repurpose if they don't want 'em.
So glad I downloaded every GOG installer w/ goodies for the titles I own. 8TB holds them comfortably, and is easy enough to repurpose if they don't want 'em.
Upvote
7
(8
/
-1)
Upvote
6
(6
/
0)
The Egyptians had to resort to huge pyramids. Thankfully technical progress has improved data compression methods since then.
Upvote
23
(23
/
0)
DRM really is a crock of shit. As much as I prefer physical media, I'm willing to give it up and go digital since that's most likely better for the planet, but DRM completely messes it up. eBooks are pretty straight forward and easy to circumvent (and take so little storage), CDs are also mostly there and better than plastic disc rot, but movies/TV and games are still mostly a wash. I don't necessarily think my kid will keep all my possessions when I die, but at least I know with a physical book it won't fall into the aether of digital legalese and disappear for no reason and can be donated or sold.
Upvote
9
(9
/
0)
Your post was funny as hell, but it does bring up a thought.
The future requires less consumption on the part of people. That means fewer "things". Like lawn ornaments (as just one example). But people mistakenly believe they own digital "property" and that acts in the same way physical items do. Legally, yes. Practically, not so much. Especially if the power goes out.
But the trend is toward "digital property" these days, and that's not exactly settled law with respect to digital property owner rights.
Back in the day, in much of country (here and elsewhere, still to this day), the "company" owned everything, and you owned nothing. Your clothes, food, home, etc. were all company property, which you lost the ability to access or take with you when you depart from the company. Most of the time, your wages paid the company rent on all that, so you didn't really own it in the first place.
The parallels to that and to today's gaming (and other digital property) are very stark and clear. The rationalizations are equally flawed. You "buy" the game. you don't rent it. So technically, it's always yours and you, as the property owner, should be able to transfer it. Otherwise, you're just paying rent on it under terms that are unfavorable to the person paying for access.
I don't know if, or when, they'll be addressed, but should this trend of "owning" digital property under the full control of someone else continue, digital property ownership rights could potentially become a major issue as more and more of our lives fall under the direct control of companies explicitly trying to milk us for every nickle we have.
Upvote
6
(9
/
-3)
Kyle Orland
Ars Praefectus
That's part of the story, but the other part is that a library needs to be able to legally break DRM to back up those downloads in case the original device becomes inactive. Luckily, there are some exemptions for this, although preservationists are looking to strengthen them.
Upvote
7
(7
/
0)
This general pattern strikes me as a little odd when I think about. With books, people read stuff their parents read all the time. Plenty of novels stay popular for generations. Movies, games, and music all have far shorter lifespans.
Upvote
16
(17
/
-1)
Kyle Orland
Ars Praefectus
Boy can I not relate. I devoured my parents' CD collection in my teens, and I still love tons of music from before I was born!
Upvote
38
(38
/
0)
How would you divide up a library of digital "items" if there are multiple heirs? With physical objects, it's easy to see who gets which part of a collection or the whole collection, but if a parent dies and bequeaths their digital estate to multiple children, it's not obvious how to divide, for example, a Steam account up between multiple children. There would have to be a formalized process where each heir would need to set up a Steam account and take possession of each individual title to ensure that copyright theft does not occur, which means that Steam (or Apple Music or whatever the system is) would need to establish this as a process.
Upvote
13
(13
/
0)
What about games where you can make/buy/sell virtual assets for real money assets? Then the account has a real money value and I would hope be transferable.
Upvote
10
(10
/
0)
Albino_Boo
Ars Praefectus
Have you considered taking a pogo stick into a minefield?
Upvote
8
(8
/
0)
Upvote
7
(7
/
0)
Personal Answer: Because everything just tends to work on Steam, and if you don't mind waiting, you can get everything on there for 75-85% off.
I like that fact that everything I own on Steam installs with no more than a few clicks and about one minute of time, and the fact that Valve has put an enormous amount of effort into ensuring as many games as possible run on as many systems as possible. They kept Windows 7 support going for 4 years longer than Microsoft did.
They've also been one of the few companies that has never pulled a massive screw-over on their customers (to my knowledge).
Upvote
27
(30
/
-3)
It's a symptom of a larger problem. We have a huge portion of our lives online in various places - games, social media, even Ars subscriptions. When we die, who has jurisdiction to cancel or transfer all those accounts and whatever information they may contain, assuming the necessary information to log in or contact the operator even can be found? The process is a bit convoluted, but at least most bank and investment firms have some way to physically contact them and follow legal process. The rest of the business is kind of the Wild West that way.
Upvote
9
(9
/
0)
When I buy a (non-Valve) game on Steam, the license I get for my purchase is between me and the game’s developer/publisher, is it not? How could Valve be expected to transfer that license to a Steam account holder’s heirs? It’s simply not their license. Am I missing something here?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not outright in favor of the current situation. I just think it really shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that’s aware of our “I’m buying a license, not ownership” reality.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not outright in favor of the current situation. I just think it really shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that’s aware of our “I’m buying a license, not ownership” reality.
Upvote
12
(13
/
-1)