Wikidata:Property proposal/fanqie: Difference between revisions
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created at fanqie (P5523) |
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{{Property proposal |
{{Property proposal |
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|status = |
|status = 5523 |
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|description = {{TranslateThis |
|description = {{TranslateThis |
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| en = the pronunciation of a monosyllabic Chinese character |
| en = the pronunciation of a monosyllabic Chinese character represented by two other Chinese characters |
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| vi = cách đọc âm Hán-Việt của một chữ Hán theo hai chữ khác ghép lại |
| vi = cách đọc âm Hán-Việt của một chữ Hán theo hai chữ khác ghép lại |
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<!-- | xx = descriptions in other languages --> |
<!-- | xx = descriptions in other languages --> |
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}} |
}} |
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|subject item = {{Q|1899324}}<!-- item corresponding to the concept represented by the property, if applicable; example: item child (Q7569) for property child (P40) --> |
|subject item = {{Q|1899324}}<!-- item corresponding to the concept represented by the property, if applicable; example: item child (Q7569) for property child (P40) --> |
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|infobox parameter = <!-- Wikipedia infobox parameters, if any; ex: "population" in [[:en:template:infobox settlement]] --> |
|infobox parameter = 6th and 7th character of [[wikt:Module:zh/data/ltc-pron]] <!-- Wikipedia infobox parameters, if any; ex: "population" in [[:en:template:infobox settlement]] --> |
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|datatype = item |
|datatype = item<!-- put datatype here (one of: item, external-id, string, media, coordinates, monolingual text, multilingual text, time, URL, number, geo-shape, tabular, lexeme, form, sense, mathematical expression, or a possibly new one) --> |
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|domain = CJKV character (Q item [instance of {{Q|Q53764732}}] or lexeme?)<!-- entity type (item, property, lexeme, form, sense) and types of items that may bear this property; give QIDs if possible --> |
|domain = CJKV character (Q item [instance of {{Q|Q53764732}}] or lexeme?)<!-- entity type (item, property, lexeme, form, sense) and types of items that may bear this property; give QIDs if possible --> |
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|allowed values = two items that are instances of {{Q|Q53764732}} |
|allowed values = two items that are instances of {{Q|Q53764732}} <!-- type of linked items (Q template or text), string pattern (regex if possible), list or range of allowed values, etc. --> |
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|allowed units = <!-- units that are allowed for values of this property --> |
|allowed units = <!-- units that are allowed for values of this property --> |
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|source = {{ |
|source = {{Q|35792}}, {{Q|2189818}}, {{Q|1271885}} <!-- external reference URL, Wikipedia list article, etc. --> |
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|example = [[wikt:鈙#Vietnamese]] → [[wikt:巨#Vietnamese]] ({{statement||||P1545|<nowiki>1</nowiki>}}), [[wikt:禁#Vietnamese]] ({{statement||||P1545|<nowiki>2</nowiki>}}) |
|example = [[wikt:鈙#Vietnamese|<big>鈙</big>]] → [[wikt:巨#Vietnamese|<big>巨</big>]] ({{statement||||P1545|<nowiki>1</nowiki>}}), [[wikt:禁#Vietnamese|<big>禁</big>]] ({{statement||||P1545|<nowiki>2</nowiki>}}) |
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|planned use = <!-- what use do you plan to make of the property within the next month --> |
|planned use = <!-- what use do you plan to make of the property within the next month --> |
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|number of ids = <!-- for identifiers, the number of ids available from the source --> |
|number of ids = approximately 40,000 items <!-- for identifiers, the number of ids available from the source --> |
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|expected completeness = <!-- for identifiers, the coverage we can hope for in Wikidata: Q21873886 (always incomplete) or Q21873974 (eventually complete) --> |
|expected completeness = <!-- for identifiers, the coverage we can hope for in Wikidata: Q21873886 (always incomplete) or Q21873974 (eventually complete) --> |
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|formatter URL = <!-- for identifiers, URL pattern where $1 replaces the value --> |
|formatter URL = <!-- for identifiers, URL pattern where $1 replaces the value --> |
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|external links = <!-- for identifiers, search string to pass to sister projects' Special:LinkSearch pages, e.g. example.com --> |
|external links = <!-- for identifiers, search string to pass to sister projects' Special:LinkSearch pages, e.g. example.com --> |
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|see also = <!-- other, related properties --> |
|see also = {{para|phienthiet}} of [[wikt:Template:vi-readings]]<!-- other, related properties --> |
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|filter = <!-- sample: 7 digit number can be validated with edit filter [[Special:AbuseFilter/17]] --> |
|filter = <!-- sample: 7 digit number can be validated with edit filter [[Special:AbuseFilter/17]] --> |
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|robot and gadget jobs = <!-- Should or are bots or gadgets doing any task with this? (Checking other properties for consistency, collecting data, etc.) --> |
|robot and gadget jobs = <!-- Should or are bots or gadgets doing any task with this? (Checking other properties for consistency, collecting data, etc.) --> |
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* {{weak support}}. Ideally we want a datatype that takes exactly two Lexemes with a specified order. I guess {{P|1545}} and property constraints can help us on this, but this requires the use of a qualifier. This breaks down when we try to list multiple fanqies from different dictionaries - since Wikidata property values aren't ordered by design, the rendering can get quite ugly. [[User:Deryck Chan|Deryck Chan]] ([[User talk:Deryck Chan|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 14:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC) |
* {{weak support}}. Ideally we want a datatype that takes exactly two Lexemes with a specified order. I guess {{P|1545}} and property constraints can help us on this, but this requires the use of a qualifier. This breaks down when we try to list multiple fanqies from different dictionaries - since Wikidata property values aren't ordered by design, the rendering can get quite ugly. [[User:Deryck Chan|Deryck Chan]] ([[User talk:Deryck Chan|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 14:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC) |
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* {{s}} I’m not familiar with {{Q|1899324}}, but data related to Han characters are important. Now Han characters are represented as items (instance of {{Q|53764738}}), so the data type should be item. --[[User:Okkn|Okkn]] ([[User talk:Okkn|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:51, 6 July 2018 (UTC) |
* {{s}} I’m not familiar with {{Q|1899324}}, but data related to Han characters are important. Now Han characters are represented as items (instance of {{Q|53764738}}), so the data type should be item. --[[User:Okkn|Okkn]] ([[User talk:Okkn|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:51, 6 July 2018 (UTC) |
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* {{comment}} marking as not ready - {{Ping|Okkn}} only one datatype can be used for a given property. The proposal template contains multiple datatypes. − [[User:Pintoch|Pintoch]] ([[User talk:Pintoch|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 08:15, 17 July 2018 (UTC) |
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** {{ping|Pintoch}} At the time of this property proposal creation, there was no consensus of how to represent Han characters (i.e. as Items? or as Lexemes?, see [[Wikidata:Property_proposal/radical]]). But now, we have some properties related to Han characters, such as {{P|5425}}, and they deal with Han characters as Items (instances of {{Q|53764738}}). So obviously the datatype of this property also should be Item. I updated the template parameter. --[[User:Okkn|Okkn]] ([[User talk:Okkn|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:23, 17 July 2018 (UTC) |
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* {{S}}. This property is useful for Chinese characters found in {{Q|2191807}} such as {{Q|35792}}, {{Q|2189818}} and {{Q|1271885}}. Readings of {{Q|1899324}} can be obtained from the 6th and 7th character of [[wikt:Module:zh/data/ltc-pron]], eg. [[wikt:Module:zh/data/ltc-pron/鈙]]. The other values in the module are for division and tone which are used for reconstructed middle Chinese readings (not required by this property). [[User:KevinUp|KevinUp]] ([[User talk:KevinUp|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 10:25, 21 July 2018 (UTC) |
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{{Ping|Deryck Chan|KevinUp|Mxn|Pintoch|VIGNERON|Okkn}} {{done}}: {{P|P5523}}. − [[User:Pintoch|Pintoch]] ([[User talk:Pintoch|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 08:56, 25 July 2018 (UTC) |
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Latest revision as of 08:56, 25 July 2018
fanqie
[edit]Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Lexemes
| Description | the pronunciation of a monosyllabic Chinese character represented by two other Chinese characters |
|---|---|
| Represents | fanqie (Q1899324) |
| Data type | Item |
| Template parameter | 6th and 7th character of wikt:Module:zh/data/ltc-pron |
| Domain | CJKV character (Q item [instance of CJKV character (Q53764732)] or lexeme?) |
| Allowed values | two items that are instances of CJKV character (Q53764732) |
| Example | 鈙 → 巨 ( |
| Source | Jiyun (Q35792), Guangyun (Q2189818), Qieyun (Q1271885) |
| Number of IDs in source | approximately 40,000 items |
| See also | |phienthiet= of wikt:Template:vi-readings |
Motivation
This type of pronunciation guide is commonly found in old Chinese and Sino-Vietnamese dictionaries. Minh Nguyễn 💬 07:28, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
Discussion
Weak support (my support is weak only because my level in Chinese is weak). Could we define a constraint based on the pronunciation? Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 13:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC)- Weak support. Ideally we want a datatype that takes exactly two Lexemes with a specified order. I guess series ordinal (P1545) and property constraints can help us on this, but this requires the use of a qualifier. This breaks down when we try to list multiple fanqies from different dictionaries - since Wikidata property values aren't ordered by design, the rendering can get quite ugly. Deryck Chan (talk) 14:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
Support I’m not familiar with fanqie (Q1899324), but data related to Han characters are important. Now Han characters are represented as items (instance of sinogram (Q53764738)), so the data type should be item. --Okkn (talk) 18:51, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
Comment marking as not ready - @Okkn: only one datatype can be used for a given property. The proposal template contains multiple datatypes. − Pintoch (talk) 08:15, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Pintoch: At the time of this property proposal creation, there was no consensus of how to represent Han characters (i.e. as Items? or as Lexemes?, see Wikidata:Property_proposal/radical). But now, we have some properties related to Han characters, such as Han character in this lexeme (P5425), and they deal with Han characters as Items (instances of sinogram (Q53764738)). So obviously the datatype of this property also should be Item. I updated the template parameter. --Okkn (talk) 12:23, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support. This property is useful for Chinese characters found in rime dictionary (Q2191807) such as Jiyun (Q35792), Guangyun (Q2189818) and Qieyun (Q1271885). Readings of fanqie (Q1899324) can be obtained from the 6th and 7th character of wikt:Module:zh/data/ltc-pron, eg. wikt:Module:zh/data/ltc-pron/鈙. The other values in the module are for division and tone which are used for reconstructed middle Chinese readings (not required by this property). KevinUp (talk) 10:25, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
@Deryck Chan, KevinUp, Mxn, Pintoch, VIGNERON, Okkn: 
Done: fanqie (P5523). − Pintoch (talk) 08:56, 25 July 2018 (UTC)