Ben Cardin Calls For 'Personal Sanctions As Well As Sectorial Sanction' To 'Advance American Values'

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Prior to the Congressional recess, during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing, Sen. Ben Cardin (D-MD) questioned Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell about US-China relations and global policy

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Transcript

00:00Thank you very much Secretary Campbell. We'll now have five minute rounds. Let me

00:05start if I might. What really differentiates the United States from

00:09China, PRC, is the way that we conduct our foreign policy wrapped in our values.

00:14They conduct foreign policy based upon transactional objectives and President

00:21Biden's made it clear that our foreign policy will be wrapped within our values.

00:25So we promote democracy, good governance, respect for human rights. China uses

00:33corruption and force if need be as they're threatening to Taiwan to try to

00:37carry out their foreign policy. So my question to you as we develop our

00:41relationship with the PRC, how do you balance our commitment to advance the

00:47values that our foreign policy is based in? Not just with our direct bilateral

00:53relations with China, but in countries in which we're competing with China. How

00:57do we balance the advancement of our values that are critical to our national

01:03security with the realities that we're dealing with regimes that differ from us

01:10and are prepared to do things that we find very objectionable? Senator, it's a

01:16great question and I think you understand the context of it very well. I

01:20would simply say that a number of countries where we are contested,

01:25contesting intensively, countries like Vietnam, even a country like India, a

01:33close partner, there are occasionally challenges that are presented in terms

01:38of the conduct of domestic affairs. I think the truth is that the United

01:44States, it is just intrinsic, both Democrats and Republicans, raise issues

01:49of concern in every endeavor. I think that's critical. Most of our partners

01:56understand that and appreciate the need to address the issues that we raise. I

02:01would simply say that we cannot go back to a period where we place

02:07strategic interest at such a premium that we look the other way at

02:14egregious acts that cause concern to us. I don't think that has been done. I do

02:20believe that in almost every case the United States has been able to balance

02:24our strong foreign policy national security interests with, as you put it,

02:30our key inherent interests in promoting democracy and human rights. So

02:35ultimately what we're looking to do in some of these very challenging

02:40circumstances is to bend their trajectory, sometimes slightly, sometimes

02:46transformationally, in directions that support freedom, that support

02:52democracy, and closer association with like-minded nations that we're working

02:57with on the global stage. I appreciate that. Congress has been your partner.

03:02Sometimes we can, as an independent branch, help you advance our values where

03:07diplomats have a hard time pursuing. We've done that in trafficking in humans

03:12with our TRIP reports. We've done that in the sanctions, the Magnitsky and

03:17others that require you to consider personal sanctions as well as sectorial

03:22sanctions. We did that with anti-corruption in the last Congress. So

03:27we look for you to give us additional ways in which we can be helpful to

03:31advance American values, Western values, global values in our relationship with

03:36other countries. You have to set priorities. We have to set priorities. We

03:40have a limited amount of time left in this Congress, and I want you to give me

03:44how high a priority is it for the United States Senate to confirm, particularly

03:49career ambassadors, where we have so many that are vacant today. If we do that,

03:53takes floor time, takes committee time. There are other issues we need to deal

03:57with. How high of a priority is it for you to accomplish your missions to

04:01represent us in the State Department, for us to take up and confirm the vacant

04:07positions we have now in the State Department? So look, it's a good point, and

04:10I do want to just underscore clearly your first issue. When Congress, when

04:17senators engage internationally, it helps us enormously. To the extent that we've

04:23had any assistance, and it's been modest at best from China, on fentanyl related

04:29issues, it is largely because of delegations from Congress, from the

04:34Senate, going over, making the case powerfully about that this is not just

04:39an executive branch issue. It is broadly shared with the American people. When

04:44Delegation Senator Shaheen was in Britain recently engaging the new

04:49British government, they were able to hear directly bipartisan interests for

04:55why the special relationship is so important. So I will tell you that we

05:00are much more effective when you guys are engaged internationally. I support

05:04it. I very much want to see you guys out on the playing field. It helps us

05:09consequentially. To your very good point. Look, I would say that, you know,

05:15politics is a tough game. Take it out on us, the political guys. I work with

05:20wonderful people, professionals, and frankly they deserve to be confirmed.

05:26Dorothy Shea is up in front of your committee now. She's been waiting almost

05:30two years. The place that really the Chinese are taking it to us is in

05:34international organizations. We have to be able to contest there. I don't like

05:40going to a country in which we sit down with the leader, and we don't have an

05:46ambassador there. Hasn't been there for a couple of years. I find it

05:48embarrassing. I think it is antithetical to our strategic interests. And so, yes,

05:53I do believe we should put these folks on the field. Look, no one quarrels with

05:59strong military engagements. We have to do that. We have to invest in our

06:02military. But I think there sometimes is a tendency to underestimate how

06:07important our diplomats are in international organizations, in the

06:14global South, particularly when in small countries in Africa, they view

06:20the ambassador as the representative of the United States. Washington is

06:24distant. And so getting those people in place, I would say, is among our most

06:29important priorities. I'm sorry to go on so long on that, Chairman. Senator

06:32Risch.

Ben Cardin Calls For 'Personal Sanctions As Well As Sectorial Sanction' To 'Advance American Values'

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