Bureau Of Land Management Director Tracy Stone-Manning Faces Grilling In Senate Energy Committee

3 months ago

On Thursday, the Senate Energy Committee held a full committee hearing “to Conduct Oversight of the Bureau of Land Management.”

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Transcript

00:00:00This morning the committee is convening to conduct oversight of the Bureau of Land Management also known as BLM

00:00:04Which is situated within the Department of the Interior. I'd like to welcome

00:00:08Director Stone Manning back to the committee and thank you for joining us this morning

00:00:11I also sit on the Armed Services Committee which you know

00:00:13And that's where I'm going to be going to

00:00:14Though West Virginia has very little BLM managed lands as compared to other states as chairman of this committee and as an American

00:00:20I'm always astonished at how much land in the United States is

00:00:23Managed by the federal government especially in the western states my simply to all of you

00:00:29In total the BLM is responsible for more than one in every ten acres of land in the United States and

00:00:35approximately 30% of the nation's minerals

00:00:37That's approximately 245 million acres of surface land and 700 million acres of subsurface mineral estate

00:00:45This land together with all the natural resources and beauties is owned by the American people and has been entrusted to the BLM to sustain

00:00:52Its health diversity and productivity for the use and enjoyment of present future generations

00:00:57This includes managing wildfires and drought and protecting and restoring watersheds

00:01:02Native and recreational fisheries and ecosystems across BLM managed lands

00:01:06BLM also plays a significant role in providing for our nation's energy and mineral security

00:01:11Roughly 10% of US oil and gas production occurs on BLM managed lands in fiscal year 23

00:01:17We produce 516 million barrels of oil from federal onshore lands

00:01:233.7 trillion cubic feet of natural gas

00:01:27This is why it is so important that the Inflation Reduction Act ensured onshore oil and gas leasing will continue

00:01:33By tying BLM's authority to issue rights away for solar and wind projects to weather

00:01:38Substantial oil and gas lease sales are also occurring in public lands and really what it's about is an all-in energy policy using everything

00:01:45We have in the cleanest fashion, and we're producing this energy more cleanly than ever while also addressing the legacy

00:01:52Impact on our energy communities through initiatives like the 4.7 billion

00:01:56Dollars of Congress provided an infrastructure law for the orphan well program, which is managed by the BLM.

00:02:04I was also pleased to see the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals earlier this year finally overturned the executive branch's decade-long

00:02:12moratorium on new federal coal leasing giving that nearly 40% of our nation's coal comes

00:02:18From the Powder River Basin in Wyoming and Montana much of its BLM managed lands

00:02:22But unfortunately the BLM quickly followed that up by choosing no more coal leasing as their preferred option on those federal lands

00:02:29I guess when you look at the regulations this administration is putting out

00:02:32It's clear they think that coal won't be needed anymore, which I disagree with

00:02:36respectfully

00:02:37But I'm here to tell you what it's actually doing is putting our grid reliability at risk right now

00:02:42And the problems aren't limited to fossil fuels the administration doesn't want to talk about that

00:02:47There's nearly a 300 mile transmission project across, Oregon, Idaho

00:02:51There's been trying for over 18 years to get permitted and

00:02:55Constructed when complete the 500 kilovolt line would deliver badly needed energy increased liability to the nation's electric grid

00:03:02But just when the developer thought they were about to cross the finish line

00:03:06BLM decided to restart to previously completed cultural and historical surveys

00:03:11I've heard similar challenges with geothermal developers where nearly 30% of their capital is to tied to just

00:03:17environmental reviews

00:03:19They simply cannot afford to be stuck in the endless permitting nightmare while the remaining financial support rides on whether

00:03:24They can ever obtain a permit to start their commercial operations to produce geothermal energy

00:03:30To show how bad the problem is this chart behind me is based on work from Stanford University

00:03:35And looked at every single environmental impact statement completed from 2010 to 2018

00:03:42Across the entire federal government the BLM led more of these EIS's than any other agency

00:03:49Stanford found that solar is the most frequently litigated and canceled project type

00:03:54with wind a close second in terms of cancellation in almost all of these cases the litigants were environmental groups as

00:04:02Evidenced by the research from Stanford comments submitted to BLM's regulations and feedback

00:04:06I've heard directly from developers, and it is clear there remains a major challenging permitting energy

00:04:12projects on BLM managed lands

00:04:14Regardless, and I say that again regardless of the type of energy that will be produced

00:04:19Unfortunately the situation for critical minerals on public ends is just as bad

00:04:24Put that put that up again if you will

00:04:27I don't know if kind of moving around if you all have been able to see where it's coming from

00:04:32What's been litigated and what's been canceled?

00:04:34and it's astonishing and I think people don't realize we all need permitting reform and

00:04:40Some people think what helps one group more than the other and it really doesn't

00:04:43It basically levels a playing field so we can have reliable energy in a grid system that works

00:04:48Some estimates say that more than 300 new mines will be needed in order to meet projected demand for critical minerals

00:04:54According to the International Energy Agency

00:04:56Demand for electricity vehicle batteries will increase from around 340 gigawatt hours today to over

00:05:033,500 gigawatt hours by 2030

00:05:05Requiring as many as 50 new lithium mines

00:05:0841 new nickel mines and 11 new cobalt mines

00:05:11This demand simply cannot be met to recycling alone and new mines must be built in the US and on BLM managed lands

00:05:19We directed the BLM and the bipartisan infrastructure law to provide us with a report

00:05:23On how we can do that and how we can improve and expedite the permitting around our domestic

00:05:28critical critical mineral supply chain

00:05:31The report we received which was many months late

00:05:34Recognized the hard truth the demand for critical minerals will at least double by 2040

00:05:39But then it clearly failed to meet the requirements set by Congress

00:05:42It barely contained any concrete recommendations to actually accelerate mine permitting

00:05:47Instead it calls for more regulations more staff more funding less mining wherever BLM believes permitting will take longer and

00:05:55multi-year effort to completely

00:05:57Overhaul the entire mining regulatory system. The report was so bad

00:06:01in fact that interiors own inspector general found the department failed to meet Congress's direction and

00:06:06Instructed interior to provide the additional legally required information. We really need you to do better

00:06:12Director Stone Manning, I fully appreciate your responsibility to manage our nation's precious resources

00:06:18I also implore you not to forget your role in our nation's economic and energy security

00:06:23Now I'm going to recognize Senator Brasso for his opening statement. Well, thanks so much. Mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding this important hearing

00:06:29Look, this is the first time that Miss Stone Manning has appeared before the committee in three years

00:06:33The director of Bureau of Land Management has a profound impact on the people of my home state in Wyoming

00:06:39I saw it and heard about it last weekend in Wyoming as I met with the Wyoming Mining Association

00:06:44And with the Wyoming Stock Growers Association our ranchers heard about it again last night

00:06:49on a conference call with each of our Wyoming County Commissioners from each and every one of our 23 counties and

00:06:55it's because nearly half of the land in Wyoming is owned by the federal government and

00:06:59Nearly 70% of the minerals in Wyoming are owned by the federal government and the director manages most of this land

00:07:07In Wyoming the director's decisions have a significant effect on people's jobs

00:07:12On their family budgets on the quality of public education and on our entire state's economy

00:07:19That is why I find Miss Stone Manning's record and her unwillingness to appear before us until now

00:07:25so very troubling

00:07:28Since 2021 Miss Stone Manning has been busy making decisions

00:07:32Which will crush Wyoming's economy and lay waste to our local communities in the years ahead and the examples abound

00:07:40in August of 2023

00:07:43The Bureau's Rock Springs field office issued a resource management plan that would devastate communities in southwest, Wyoming

00:07:51This is the home of some of the nation's largest deposits of natural gas and a mineral called Trona

00:07:58These resources support tens of thousands of good-paying jobs

00:08:03Under this plan

00:08:05The Bureau would lock up over 2 million acres of federal land from productive use

00:08:10It would prohibit future energy and mineral development

00:08:14prohibit grazing and even recreation

00:08:17recreation

00:08:18the governor the state legislature our entire congressional delegation and the county commissioners all

00:08:26Strongly oppose the Bureau's plan

00:08:30We know what will happen if the plan goes forward

00:08:33The director is making similar decisions in other parts of our state

00:08:37Last month the Buffalo Field Office issued a proposal to end new coal leasing in the Powder River Basin

00:08:45Last year the Powder River Basin supplied 45% of all of the coal mined in the United States of America

00:08:53Wyoming's coal production is the lifeblood of Gillette and Northeast, Wyoming

00:08:58It supports tens of thousands of jobs

00:09:00It helps fund K through 12 public education in our state and there is absolutely no reason to pursue this

00:09:09irresponsible and irrational

00:09:11proposal

00:09:12We all know that President Biden wants a carbon-free grid as of now

00:09:17This is a pipe dream and according to experts the world over without an

00:09:23extraordinary

00:09:24Technological breakthrough it will likely never happen never in the meantime

00:09:30We must not block access to the nation's single richest area of abundant available and reliable energy

00:09:39The Bureau is also wreaking havoc in other areas of the state

00:09:43In March of this year the Bureau issued a resource management plan to address the greater sage-grouse

00:09:49for over 15 years the state of Wyoming has been at the forefront of efforts to protect the species and

00:09:56conserve and restore its habitat

00:09:59Wyoming has done so while balancing the need for economic development

00:10:03The Bureau is now proposing to undo Wyoming's efforts and block access to millions of acres of federal land

00:10:12The list goes on

00:10:14In April the Bureau finalized its so-called public lands rule

00:10:18This rule turns multiple use the Bureau's decades-old bedrock principle of federal land

00:10:26Management turns it on its head

00:10:29It will allow third parties to lease federal lands in order to block the productive use of the land

00:10:38This is land which by law is to be used for grazing for energy for mineral development and for recreation

00:10:45again families and communities in Wyoming throughout the West

00:10:49Depend on federal lands for energy and mineral development for grazing for forest management and for recreation

00:10:57Multiple use is enshrined in federal law yet. Ms. Stone Manning is attempting to repeal it all on her own

00:11:07If this weren't enough, Ms. Stone Manning is also sabotaging her own Bureau's oil and gas program

00:11:13She has failed to hold quarterly lease sales

00:11:17She has nearly tripled timelines for permits and she has refused to deliver leases to the winning bidders

00:11:24She has issued a series of regulations to make it prohibitively expensive to explore and produce on federal lands

00:11:32None of this should surprise us. I fought her nomination because Ms. Stone Manning has long shown her hostility

00:11:40To the people of this country who live near and depend on federal lands

00:11:46And I'm glad today that the committee will finally call her to account

00:11:51Thank You, Mr. Chairman

00:11:55Ms. Stone Manning

00:11:57Mr.

00:12:01Mr. Chairman ranking member Barrasso and members of the committee

00:12:05I'm Tracy Stone Manning and I have the honor of serving as the director of the Bureau of Land Management

00:12:10Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the priorities and mission of the BLM

00:12:16We are the nation's largest land manager responsible for one in ten acres in this country the multiple-use

00:12:23Sustained yield mission established by the Federal Land Policy and Management Act or FLPMA

00:12:28directs us to sustain the health diversity and productivity of

00:12:33245 million acres of public lands and

00:12:36700 million acres of the mineral estate for multiple uses

00:12:40These lands provide food fiber minerals energy clean water

00:12:45Habitat and lifetime memories for countless families

00:12:49We owe a great deal of gratitude to the nearly 10,000 BLM civil service

00:12:55Employees that do the hard work day in and day out of balancing our mission

00:13:02New and growing challenges over the past few decades have made it more difficult for the BLM to achieve this careful

00:13:09balancing of the many resources and uses of public lands and

00:13:14What they offer to all Americans as the stewards for more than more land than any other agency

00:13:20We've experienced increasingly negative effects associated with climate change including extreme drought

00:13:27Elevated and longer

00:13:29fire seasons and greater disruption to sensitive species of wildlife and plants

00:13:35To address these challenges the BLM aims to prioritize

00:13:39Landscape health in order to ensure that our public lands can provide the countless resources and experiences that they always have

00:13:47While the BLM has taken many actions to prioritize landscape health during this administration. I'm going to focus on to

00:13:55restoring public lands and waters and

00:13:58facilitating the transition to a clean energy economy

00:14:01Prioritizing landscape health means ensuring future generations

00:14:05Inherit public lands as good or in better shape than we found them

00:14:10It means making public lands more resilient to the impacts of climate change. It means fulfilling our mission

00:14:18healthy resilient landscapes sustain numerous commit communities and economies and

00:14:23They are essential to the BLM's ability to manage public lands for multiple use and sustained yield

00:14:30the BLM is working to improve the health of our lands and waters and

00:14:34Enhance overall ecosystem function through key regulatory updates that will help safeguard the health of public lands and waters for current and future

00:14:43Generations. We're also making historic investments on the ground for land and water restoration

00:14:50Last month the BLM finalized the public lands rule, which will help guide balanced management of public lands

00:14:57This important rule provides tools for the BLM to help improve the health and resilience of public lands in the face of a changing climate

00:15:06conserve important wildlife habitat and

00:15:08intact landscapes and facilitate responsible development and better recognize unique cultural and natural

00:15:16resources on our public lands

00:15:18the BLM's efforts to prioritize the health of our public lands and waters also includes historic on-the-ground investments as

00:15:25Part of President Biden's investing in America agenda

00:15:28The BLM has identified 21 large landscapes across the West for targeted efforts to restore degraded or

00:15:36damaged public land resources

00:15:38these efforts include restoring wildlife habitat in the sagebrush steppe of the high desert

00:15:45recreating wetland meadows and

00:15:48repairing watersheds on formal industrial timberlands just among many other projects

00:15:55As we work to keep public lands and waters resilient from the effects of a changing climate

00:15:59We must ensure we do our part to help reduce carbon pollution and other greenhouse gas emissions

00:16:05The primary drivers of climate change impacts to our public lands

00:16:10President Biden has asked us to ensure an electricity sector free of carbon pollution by 2035 and

00:16:16Economy wide by 2050 and our public lands play an important role in that work

00:16:22during this

00:16:24Administration the BLM has approved over 7.3 gigawatts of renewable energy projects

00:16:30Helping to surpass the administration's goals of permitting 25 gigawatts of clean energy projects on public lands by 2025

00:16:39To help foster this work the BLM finalized the renewable energy rule last month

00:16:44Which will help guide where renewable energy development occurs improve project application processes and incentivize

00:16:52Developers to continue responsibly developing solar and wind projects on our public lands

00:16:58While the BLM has made great progress

00:17:01Transitioning to the clean energy future oil and gas production continues to be a substantial part of BLM's energy portfolio

00:17:08Our work which has included the first comprehensive update to our oil and gas leasing regulations in many decades

00:17:16Has ensured that conventional energy development is as environmentally responsible as possible and that it provides a fair return to the American

00:17:24taxpayer

00:17:25Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the important work

00:17:29The Bureau is undertaking to manage the nation's public lands for present and future generations

00:17:35I welcome any questions you may have

00:17:39Thank you for your for your testimony and I want to start by just thanking

00:17:44You and all the employees at the BLM for your stewardship of

00:17:49Places that are particularly important to my constituents

00:17:53from the Rio Grande del Norte National Monument to the Oregon Mountains Desert Peaks

00:17:59Cabazon Wilderness Study Area to Chama River Canyon

00:18:02The BLM manages some of the places that New Mexicans have the the most

00:18:08Identity with the most pride with and then I want to thank you for your work on

00:18:14permitting transmission and renewable energy projects the the Arizona, New Mexico offices of the BLM have been

00:18:22critical in

00:18:24moving the Sun Zia

00:18:26project forward and for a little context Sun Zia is going to

00:18:31Facilitate about three and a half gigawatts of clean energy onto the grid

00:18:35That's bigger than the Hoover Dam

00:18:37that's the single biggest renewable energy project ever built in the Western Hemisphere, and it would not have been possible without the

00:18:47the employees at the BLM

00:18:49Can you tell us a little bit about you know, we've heard a lot of hyperbole about the public lands rule

00:18:55Talk about how the public lands rule fits into the multiple-use

00:19:00mandate of the Bureau of Land Management

00:19:03Thank You senator for the question

00:19:06The public lands rule is going to help BLM build and maintain the health of public lands in three important ways

00:19:13It's going to ensure that we protect the most intact landscapes

00:19:17It's going to help us restore the degraded lands that need it and it's going to help us make wise

00:19:22decisions across our development portfolio

00:19:25That's backed by data and science to make those decisions durable

00:19:30The Federal Land Policy and Management Act as you know tells us to do many things

00:19:36And in those multiple uses it tells us to manage for fish and wildlife habitat for conservation

00:19:42for a natural and scenic values

00:19:45FLTMA tells us to do these things and for the first time we're going to put some

00:19:50consistency to how we deliver the conservation part of

00:19:54FLTMA's charge to us

00:19:56Great. Yeah, I don't think it's too much to ask that the BLM managed for fish and wildlife habitat

00:20:02Yeah, that is something near and dear to many of my constituents

00:20:06I hear more and more from tribes in New Mexico who want to help care for and steward public lands

00:20:12alongside federal agencies including the Bureau of Land Management

00:20:15And I know the BLM and the Forest Service are working with Tesuque Pueblo on an agreement for the Caja del Rio area

00:20:23I believe you met with Tesuque leadership when you were in New Mexico last month. Can you give us a little update on those discussions?

00:20:30Thank you senator for the question

00:20:32I did meet with the Tesuque Pueblo here in DC actually

00:20:35but I have been out on the Caja and recognized the need for us to work together to

00:20:41improve that habitat and maintain that incredible connectivity that it

00:20:47delivers to New Mexicans.

00:20:50I'm confident that we are going to

00:20:55soon sign a co-stewardship agreement with the Tesuque and the Forest Service so that we can manage these lands together. Great

00:21:04We're seeing

00:21:05delays in project approvals for projects on BLM land in New Mexico and very frequently

00:21:11I think the cause is a lack of sufficient realty staff to final finalize things like rights-of-way

00:21:17land acquisition surveys

00:21:19It's an issue that dogs the Forest Service as well, but this affects everything from recreation to land exchanges to renewable energy development

00:21:28What can we be doing to get more staff at the BLM offices in New Mexico that we can speed up these project approvals?

00:21:35Yeah, thank you senator for that question

00:21:38Hiring realty specialists for people watching online. We're hiring is really vexing across our portfolio across all of our states

00:21:46But I'm pleased to tell you that when we came in in January of 2021, there was a roughly

00:21:528,800 BLM employees. We are typically land between 10,000 and 10,500. We've made great progress

00:21:59We're over 9,600 now. So we're we're getting there and rebuilding to the place that

00:22:05BLM career employees deserve and the country deserves

00:22:09we're using every tool in the toolbox to try and

00:22:13Specifically target realty specialists and could use any ideas would be welcome

00:22:20I want to before my time's expired. I just want to touch on one other thing, which is the legacy restoration fund

00:22:27Those are the Great American Outdoors Act

00:22:30funds

00:22:32The Bureau's only obligated 69% of the funds in the three-year window

00:22:38How can we be getting more deferred maintenance dollars out the door and onto the ground for everything from

00:22:44Campgrounds to all the other infrastructure that supports the public on our BLM lands

00:22:49Yeah, thank you for this question senator, as you know deferred maintenance projects are

00:22:54Our multi-year projects they take some running time

00:22:58We have dozens and dozens in the pipeline now and I can get you those specific numbers

00:23:03But I'm feeling pretty good that we're going to catch up and hopefully the Congress will reauthorize the Great American Outdoors Act

00:23:11So now that we are now that we've got a pipeline we can continue to fund those projects. Thank you. Senator Barasso

00:23:17Thank You. Mr. Chairman Stoneman the Bureau's Rock Springs Resource Management Plan will devastate the people of South of Southwest

00:23:24Wyoming lock up millions of acres of land local communities the entire state relies on those lands the governor state

00:23:32Legislature county commissioners local communities all strongly oppose this plan

00:23:37So why are you ignoring Wyoming's opposition to the plan across the board?

00:23:42Senator thanks for the question. As you know, the Rock Springs plan is there's a draft-out. There was a public comment period

00:23:49There was a lot of hyperbole about

00:23:52facts

00:23:54That were not true about the plan

00:23:58So we've done a lot of education work with your constituents about what's in the plan more importantly

00:24:03We extended the public comment period and worked with the governor

00:24:06He stood up a task force and those folks got to walk in the shoes of our BLM and field staff in Rock Springs

00:24:14to give us

00:24:16recommendations for for the final we're digging in looking at those recommendations and

00:24:21I am certain that Wyomingites will see their voices reflected in the final

00:24:27Well, I just hope the BLM does not dig in but actually reverses course on this issue

00:24:32Last month the Bureau took steps to prohibit coal leasing in the Powder River Basin

00:24:37The Bureau claims that coal production in the region won't be impacted until the year

00:24:422038 so 14 years from now the Bureau claims that existing leases are sufficient to meet expected demand for coal

00:24:48My question then is why is the Bureau taking this action now if you don't say it's going to have any impact for at least

00:24:5514 years

00:24:56Senator thanks for the question. As you know, the president has asked us to turn and transition to a clean energy economy

00:25:04the lands in the Powder River Basin are leased through 2041

00:25:08and so we

00:25:11You had you see the

00:25:13Draft before the final before you the record of decision is still in formulation

00:25:21Well, I'd point out that the front page story in the New York Times not too long ago pointed out that this president's pipe dream

00:25:27Is not actually something that can be possibly done in our country and our needs for energy as the committee hearings have shown

00:25:34Again, and again and again, I think this plan is completely reckless last year the Powder River Basin supplied

00:25:4045% of all the coal mined in the United States and if this

00:25:45Carbon-free grid doesn't materialize and I don't believe it will

00:25:49What do you do suggest that we start importing coal from China and other places?

00:25:54Senator I have great faith and the ingenuity of the American people. We are hard at work every day. We have

00:26:02Permitted seven point nine gigawatts in just three and a half years

00:26:06I believe we can reach the transition. The president has asked us to reach. Well, I agree that in the ingenuity American people

00:26:12It's really hard when your agency continues to block efforts to produce the critical minerals that we need

00:26:18And so much of the product that we need for the American economy

00:26:21So in April your bureau issued a rule that will dramatically raise bonding requirements on oil and gas producers

00:26:28This is money that producers must pay up front in order to operate on federal lands

00:26:33According to the data from your own department

00:26:36There were only 37 abandoned wells on lands managed by the Bureau

00:26:40It's less than one-tenth of 1% of all the wells that the Bureau manages

00:26:45So, how do you justify your decision to increase bonding requirements by as much as 25 fold?

00:26:51Senator both the Government Accountability Office and the Inspector General have written reports that suggest I think rightly

00:26:58So that our bonding rates which are over 60 years old are not high enough

00:27:04we have thousands of idle dwells on our public lands and idle dwells are the last stop before

00:27:12they become orphans not all of them become orphans, but

00:27:16The GAO found that thousands of them will yeah, well, I don't buy it

00:27:20You know, this this rule to me is completely arbitrary

00:27:23It's punitive and you're trying to drive oil and gas producers off federal land. I think it's disgraceful

00:27:28Finally in my remaining time Wyoming is home to the large population of greater sage-grouse and its habitat

00:27:34For over 15 years with Republican governors Democrat governors working together

00:27:39Wyoming has been at the forefront of adopting new management approaches to protect the species

00:27:44Instead of working with Wyoming your bureau plans to upend the state's successful efforts at balancing

00:27:50conservation with economic development

00:27:53Why are you ignoring a state that has proven time and again that can successfully protect the species?

00:28:00Senator respectfully I have a different view on our work with your state

00:28:05We've been meeting twice weekly with the state of Wyoming as we develop the sage-grouse plans

00:28:12The only way to make these plans work is to work together

00:28:16With our partners in the states and we have been doing so and Wyoming has been helping us lead the way with the Wyoming

00:28:23with the

00:28:24sage-grouse tax force at WGA

00:28:28We we are literally line editing the documents together

00:28:33So I believe that they are going to have the durability that they need for success for the sage-grouse

00:28:38Yeah, John Kennedy spoke at the University of Wyoming

00:28:421963 and it was part of his

00:28:44Tour of conservation in the West and he said we need to maintain a living balance between man's actions and nature's reactions

00:28:52I have a picture of him giving that speech Tom Udall's dad who was Secretary of Interior was with him that day

00:28:57in Wyoming and it just seems that the BLM has gone a long way away from

00:29:02Maintaining a living balance and basically trying to shut down the state of Wyoming. Thank you. Mr. Chairman senator Cortez Masto

00:29:10Thank you

00:29:12Director thank you for being here. I have to say I do agree with

00:29:16Former President Kennedy as well as our ranking member

00:29:20We need to maintain a living balance and that's why I appreciate you working with us

00:29:25Particularly in Nevada because you know the footprint BLM has in Nevada

00:29:28I do want to talk a little bit about the resource management plan Martin

00:29:32Modernization in Nevada for that reason because I think this is part of that living balance last year

00:29:38I sent a letter supporting efforts by BLM state office in Nevada

00:29:42Undertaking that statewide resource management plan to allow for comprehensive science-based approach to determine

00:29:49Management for BLM lands across the whole state and would thus be able to incorporate entire

00:29:55Echo regions competing land use needs and varied stakeholders

00:30:01The effort is important as you well know in Nevada because there's about 48 million acres of BLM managed land in my state

00:30:08that's three-fifths of Nevada's total landmass and

00:30:12currently there are 12 resource management plans in effect and

00:30:17With some completed over 36 years ago. These plans are out of date. They're impacting BLM's multiple-use management mission across, Nevada

00:30:28Several rules are being processed at the department level that have significant impact to how the lands are managed in my state

00:30:34Which is very confusing for our state local users our local state holders and local governments

00:30:40Including let me just name a few the oil and gas leasing rule the solar PIS the public lands rule

00:30:47I can go on and on there's there's over 12 of them

00:30:49So I I've been asking this and I hope your answer today is similar to

00:30:55At the end of the day what I'm looking for is an alignment of all of this so that our stakeholders know

00:31:03What to anticipate

00:31:05And so my question for you is how are you managing the alignment for these nationwide rules with the particular needs in my state?

00:31:13And other western states that are dealing with these as well

00:31:16Senator thank you for the question and it gets at the sort of through line to our work

00:31:21Which is managing for landscape health

00:31:24And doing so in a responsible way that is fair to the American taxpayer

00:31:30So you'll see how the renewable energy rule for example lists

00:31:38Priority criteria for helping to drive where development goes it

00:31:44Incentivizes that development by dropping fees by 80%

00:31:48that

00:31:50coupled with the public lands rule that

00:31:53Ups our game on using science and data to inform our decision-making to make those decisions more durable

00:32:02those then would be

00:32:04driven by

00:32:05Resource management plans that allocate uses across the landscape. And so I think that the statewide RMP for Nevada is

00:32:14It I'm hoping it will be a model for the BLM. We've not done that

00:32:19Anywhere else where we have one big overarching RMP. And so we're committed to seeing that through and

00:32:26Perhaps having Nevada lead the way like it is on renewable energy

00:32:29Do you have a time frame on anticipate when that's going to be done? These processes take time and we are behind

00:32:36I inherited a backlog

00:32:40tens of millions of dollars of backlog of planning

00:32:43But it's in the mix and it's a priority so it will be moving forward here

00:32:48Yeah, just and I appreciate that

00:32:50just keep in mind all of the the clean energy projects the economic development the environmental protection all of the above is put on hold

00:32:56at times waiting for

00:32:59BLM to respond in this resource management guide that I think is important for the reasons that you've just said

00:33:05Yeah, and the chart that the chairman held up earlier

00:33:07I mean if we have up-to-date resource management plans that makes our decisions more durable

00:33:12Let me jump really quickly to a protecting Ash Meadows

00:33:17Ash Meadows in

00:33:20Southern Nevada is a National Wildlife Refuge and the devil's whole unit of Death Valley National Park in my county. It's a spectacular resource

00:33:30The fish there is being threatened by a proposal to drill into the sensitive groundwater

00:33:35Which would dry up seeps and springs that at the core of the refuge

00:33:39I toured this last month and let me just say every community leader that lives in that area

00:33:44They're unanimous to see the department move forward with withdrawal as quickly as possible land withdrawal to protect

00:33:52This area now I get that Ash Meadows is managed by a different agency, but the withdrawal comes within BLM's

00:34:01Responsibility can I get your commitment to work with me and our constituents in working on that withdrawal to protect

00:34:07Not only the fish there, but that whole

00:34:10Wildlife Refuge. Yeah, Senator

00:34:12I commit to you that I'm going to come and visit it and learn about it firsthand so that

00:34:17I can speak with the secretary about it

00:34:19She of course is the person who's has the authority to do mineral withdrawals

00:34:23But I commit to you that I will dig in and learn about this issue

00:34:27And then finally I'm gonna submit for the record affordable housing

00:34:30Thank you for the work that you're doing in Nevada around affordable housing

00:34:33I would like to know though the most recent agreement that was entered into and thank you with HUD

00:34:38Yeah, is it working and maybe we can have a follow-up on that. I know my time is up

00:34:42Yeah, thank you. Senator that agreement happened because you asked me about it in my confirmation

00:34:47Thank you. Thank you

00:34:48senator Lee

00:34:51The conservation and landscape health rule that you recently finalized

00:34:56elevates non-use

00:34:58either on par with or arguably above

00:35:02Multiple use now according to FLIPMA BLM is required to manage for multiple use and

00:35:09for sustained yield with multiple use

00:35:12Referring to things like grazing timber harvesting energy mining and recreation

00:35:17Can you cite a provision of FLIPMA that that allows for you?

00:35:23To depart from that standard and to prioritize non-use instead of multiple use and sustained yield

00:35:29What provision of FLIPMA allows you to do that

00:35:32title section title 1 section 103 is

00:35:37Where the multiple-use definition occurs?

00:35:40In FLIPMA and it is very explicitly clear that managing for fish and wildlife habitat managing for natural and scenic values

00:35:49Those are direct words from FLIPMA is our responsibility

00:35:54yeah, look I understand that in this as part of the sort of the recreation portfolio and

00:35:59You've you've got the ability to do that. I don't I don't think there's anything in there though

00:36:03Do that that authorizes you to do exactly what you're doing here, which which really is for

00:36:11Deliberate long-term

00:36:13non-use

00:36:15This is a frustration that that I have and it's not just me that has it

00:36:20I hear every day all the time from constituents from local officials

00:36:25Who are increasingly frustrated that at the direction that BLM is taken

00:36:30Under your lead now keep in mind the federal government owns 67% of the land in my state and the biggest share of that

00:36:38Is Bureau of Land Management, and so we live as as subjects

00:36:46Subjects to the Bureau of Land Management and

00:36:49Increasingly BLM under your leadership seems to have taken an approach that manages these lands like a museum

00:36:57It's a it's a you can look but you cannot touch sort of approach

00:37:01These are in people's backyards

00:37:03You can hardly throw a rock in any direction in Utah and not hit federal land

00:37:09now

00:37:10that portion of the land in my state the portion of the

00:37:1567% of the land in my state owned by the federal government your portion of it

00:37:18amounts to 22 million acres in Utah

00:37:23That's 7 million acres more than all of the land not just the federal land

00:37:29but all the land in the state of West Virginia and

00:37:31Month after month a sweeping new policy or management plan seems to be imposed by your agency

00:37:37Harming Utahns who rely on the land for their livelihood who rely on the land

00:37:42for all sorts of things

00:37:45Now the agency is strayed pretty far from its its its statutory mandate

00:37:51to manage this land for multiple use and sustained yield the conservation rule is a pretty blatant example of this museum approach of

00:37:59You can look but you can't touch

00:38:01One that's taken over the BLM and I I don't think it can be fairly reconciled with FLPMA now

00:38:08NATO Wolf Culvert

00:38:10Currently serves as the director of policy and programs at BLM and as you know, Ms

00:38:15Culver previously worked as senior counsel and

00:38:19director of the BLM Action Center at the Wilderness Society

00:38:22While in that position, Ms. Culver was personally involved in advocacy and litigation regarding travel management planning and

00:38:31Route closures in Utah and in fact, Ms. Culver helped negotiate the settlement agreement a few years ago between

00:38:38Various environmental NGOs and the Obama administration

00:38:42That established the process and the timelines for updating Utah travel management plans

00:38:48last fall

00:38:49BLM closed

00:38:51317 miles of historic roads in Utah as part of the update to the labyrinth

00:38:57rims Gemini Bridges travel management plan

00:39:01Director Stone Manning Ms. Culver

00:39:04reports to you and her current role

00:39:07As deputy director, so I'd like a yes or no answer on this

00:39:11Did did Ms. Culver have any involvement in the decision-making for the labyrinth rims?

00:39:15plan

00:39:17Principal deputy director Culver does report to me and

00:39:22That the labyrinth travel management plan decision

00:39:26Came from the ground where it should come from and it was a part of a legal settlement

00:39:32And no, I get that that's not my question. My question is whether she herself had any any involvement in that

00:39:41Senator decisions like that sometimes come to headquarters for review. I don't know if that particular plan came for review or not

00:39:50Okay, so

00:39:53Look

00:39:54Shoot either recused herself from that decision or she didn't

00:39:59Which is it?

00:40:00Senator she worked for the Wilderness Society and was wildly competent in that job

00:40:04Oh, I don't doubt that seven or eight that is that is not that is that is not the subject of my question

00:40:09What I want to know is was she or was she not involved in that?

00:40:13She she does not have to recuse herself from the Wilderness Society. She is out of the recusal period

00:40:19Okay, so you're saying that it's okay for someone with a history of advocacy and litigation on these routes

00:40:25Not just routes like these but on these

00:40:29Specific routes she was involved in litigation as an advocate specifically on these routes her name

00:40:34I believe is on the settlement the consent decree documents that resulted in this process

00:40:40Saying that it's okay for her to do this and that she can impartially oversee the BLM's travel management planning in that area

00:40:49Senator we adhere to high ethical standards at the department and we've done so here. All right

00:40:56Senator

00:40:58That's one follow-up. I'll be quick

00:41:01Very quickly, please. All right. Look

00:41:04You're updated Western solar plan expands solar development on public lands

00:41:09How how are you going to ensure that the expansion doesn't disproportionately limit other?

00:41:14critical land uses

00:41:16things like

00:41:18recreation and wildlife conservation and

00:41:22Grazing

00:41:23Senator you've hit the nail on the head on what we do every day

00:41:25Right is balance all of those uses and the Western solar plan is going to help us

00:41:30Guide solar development to places so that those decisions become more durable

00:41:35So we've got this programmatic look at where development should go so that when we do the individual NEPA analysis

00:41:41It becomes more durable

00:41:45Senator Hickenlooper

00:41:48Great and thank you for your service. Thanks for being here. I

00:41:54Think we start with

00:41:57the public lands rule

00:41:59and I

00:42:00Again want to discuss its impact on the clean energy deployment

00:42:05particularly at the at the state and local levels

00:42:08Some clean energy advocates worry that the rule is going to hinder projects if if it's not properly implemented

00:42:14If we don't get the right framework in place, how are you gonna?

00:42:19How well you collaborate with?

00:42:21state and local officials

00:42:24To ensure we continue advancing clean energy

00:42:28On you know, we get to those goals and clean energy on public lands

00:42:34Senator thanks for that question

00:42:36We work very closely with our partners in the states

00:42:40Fish and game agencies are critical to our work informing our work about where where we should avoid

00:42:49Developing and where it's okay to develop

00:42:51I think the public lands rule is going to help renewable energy development in a couple ways again. It's gonna

00:42:57Make now that we are assessing all of our work against land health standards. All of our work is going to be more durable

00:43:05and the mitigation portion of the public lands rule that allows

00:43:10mitigation leasing on our public lands will give

00:43:13these energy development companies the ability to offset their impacts and that kind of

00:43:19Mitigation typically had been done on private ground and now we have a consistent way to invest those dollars on our public ground

00:43:26There's just great conservation success for mitigation. And now we get to see that success on public lands

00:43:33Great. Thank you

00:43:36Another issue separate issue completely we continue to be falling behind

00:43:41in securing

00:43:43Critical minerals essential minerals the kinds of things we're going to need to really make a transition to a clean energy economy

00:43:49Lithium copper, I'm going to need more copper than we've ever really imagined

00:43:54And we're falling behind in securing supply chains for these minerals and

00:44:00Because consistently that's making us more and more vulnerable to our rivals like China that are

00:44:08Investing more and making and I think setting up

00:44:11broader

00:44:13larger supply chains

00:44:15Given BLM's role in permitting and resource production on federal lands

00:44:19How are you coordinating with the Department of Defense for instance or the Department of Energy to ensure reliable?

00:44:26Supply chains for our critical minerals and

00:44:29overall our energy security

00:44:32Senator thanks for the question. One of the frustrations about the 1872 mining law is that we don't get to drive

00:44:39What kind of minerals we're going for and where we react to proposals that come in the door?

00:44:45And I'm proud to say that we've permitted five critical mineral mines in this administration

00:44:52We have another big one in the world

00:44:54We have another big one in the works at Rhyolite Ridge the Thacker project

00:45:01is going forward is going to

00:45:04Is going to produce probably 20% of the world's lithium supply

00:45:09So we are working very hard to again get these

00:45:14Projects done and and again make sure they're durable and stand the test of time. Well, I appreciate that it is

00:45:20It's a

00:45:21strange bedfellows in a way that the people that really believe in and protect the environment

00:45:27recognize climate change and and

00:45:29Need to find ways to get minds open in order to protect the the planet from from severe change

00:45:36It's what I love about the BLM

00:45:37The multiple-use mission is hard and and it's why our employees are so excited to go to work every day because they like hard things

00:45:44Gluttons for punishment I might say

00:45:47Obviously BLM offers access to the great outdoors on many different levels in Colorado

00:45:54it's a just as you know, it's a really big deal from hiking to mountain biking to fishing to you know, all manner of

00:46:02outdoor recreation

00:46:04Just on BLM lands alone. We have about 1.4 billion dollars of economic activity

00:46:11in

00:46:12as

00:46:13Which is basically about 10% of our overall 14 billion dollar

00:46:18economic activity on outdoor recreation told in total

00:46:22But along with the abundance of great chair trails in the BLM lands

00:46:26There's also a major need to you know to maintain these lands

00:46:31And so how is your agency responding to the growing interest?

00:46:35In BLM lands and you know this risk that people are going to love them to death

00:46:39Yeah, thank you for that question 82 million people visited our public lands last year a record

00:46:45I think that they were rediscovered in the pandemic and folks aren't going back which is a great thing

00:46:50Right that people love their public lands. They want to visit

00:46:53I asked the team to put together a recreation blueprint for the 21st century to help guide our work

00:47:01You know, we haven't been seen as a recreation agency, but the American public sure sees us that way

00:47:07And so we're trying to catch up

00:47:09Using this recreation blueprint to then get some state implementation plans to help guide the work

00:47:16Funding is an issue. You know, I

00:47:19for every visitor to Park Service lands

00:47:23There's a five dollars and twenty cents appropriated for every visitor to the Forest Service. It's about a dollar seventy for us

00:47:29It's seventy nine cents

00:47:30So we're doing a lot with a little and we're that means we're going to have to create partnerships very excited about the foundation for

00:47:37America's public lands that is helping us build those partnerships so that we can get the resources. We need to take care of these lands

00:47:44Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for your service. Thank you

00:47:48Senator Murkowski, thank you. Mr. Chairman director stone Manning. You've said that

00:47:53What BLM does every day is try to achieve balance but yet in my state in Alaska

00:47:59It seems that you have abandoned any any pretense a balance

00:48:05You know except for the reapproval of willow following the law. We appreciate that BLM is restricting development

00:48:11However, and wherever it can and we've seen this in our petroleum reserve

00:48:17We've seen this in the 1002 area through the public land orders the resource management plans the rejection

00:48:23Just recently of the ambler access project

00:48:26It feels like an onslaught to me and it's not just me that's noticing this it is other people who are

00:48:33Making a joke out of it. It's not a joke. You see

00:48:39What what they're putting sanctions on oil and gas production where Iran Venezuela no, Alaska

00:48:46It's a red state. It's a joke there, but it's not a joke back home

00:48:50It's not a joke at all because it has direct consequences on our jobs on our revenues

00:48:55It hurts our energy our mineral security

00:48:58Despite the press release is coming out of the administration. It doesn't help the environment because what it's doing it's helping to degrade

00:49:06global ecosystems by

00:49:08Incentivizing foreign projects to move forward with without the protections and the standards that we would have here

00:49:15So I'm I'm angry. I'm frustrated. You know that I've suggested that we need to clean house

00:49:21We need to cut BLM's budget at least until the agency realizes that they've got to follow

00:49:27Follow follow federal law that it actually matters that the commitment to balance matters

00:49:32So let me start my questions with something that we just learned about

00:49:37Yesterday and unfortunately, we didn't learn about it from BLM. We didn't learn about it from DOI

00:49:43We learned about it from the governor's office who asked for information from my office about what's the deal with PLO?

00:49:515150 so, you know very well what I'm talking about

00:49:55BLM recently finalized its central Yukon resource management plan

00:49:59It's our MP and as part of that BLM decided not to lift PLO

00:50:055150 for the taps pipeline corridor the state and selected this decades ago as part of its statehood entitlement and

00:50:12By law by law

00:50:14BLM is supposed to convey the selected lands in a timely manner

00:50:18They hadn't been moving on it. So I passed a law 20 years ago my law in

00:50:252004 directs BLM to lift PLO's in Alaska and then in 2006

00:50:32BLM recommends lifting PLO's on over 50 million acres and recommended that the best way to do that is through the RMP process

00:50:39So we've got an RMP process. We got it for the central Yukon. It's been going on for over a decade and now what happens

00:50:47BLM reverses course from the previous administration refuses to lift PLO 5150 as part of its land planning process

00:50:55Instead they got a new promise here

00:50:57What we're going to do is launch a new process with a tiered environmental assessment as soon as central

00:51:03Yukon plan was finished and this is going to allow BLM

00:51:06To finalize the RMP and then move forward on a compromise for PLO 5150

00:51:12And this was going to be a compromise developed by the state of Alaska that would protect subsistence and involve far less changing ownership

00:51:21We didn't really think that that was perfect

00:51:23But everyone that I knew of was willing to support it BLM

00:51:27Repeatedly repeatedly until like last week told my office and Alaska DNR that they were going to do it

00:51:34and so the state worked with the BLM for more than a year and

00:51:40You're very well read into this because you drove the Dalton Highway last summer with a commissioner and the deputy commissioner and then this week

00:51:47We learned nope, it's not happening. It's over

00:51:50The plan is dead. The commitment is revoked. The central Yukon RMP is over

00:51:57It's done. There won't be a supplemental process to lift the outdated

00:52:02PLO for the pipeline corridor

00:52:04Yeah, I

00:52:05Don't understand how you can sit here how those in your department all the way up to the secretary

00:52:11can sit here and make these empty promises and then break them whenever you feel like you want to break them and

00:52:18So I want I want to know

00:52:20Who canceled?

00:52:22BLM's commitment to move forward on the state of Alaska's compromise on PLO

00:52:285150 and if it wasn't you who was it?

00:52:31Senator I know that's really important to you. I know it's really it's really important and we got zero word zero nothing

00:52:39And is it happening? I wouldn't call it canceled. Okay, what would you call it? My my conversation with the commissioner last week?

00:52:48was about how they're

00:52:52We're up against some timing issues and some

00:52:56Workload issues throughout the department. What does that mean? And our plates are full and

00:53:02that that that that we're not moving forward with the EA in the timeline that

00:53:07We had originally I don't understand what you have just said is that is the project

00:53:12Cancelled no is the project delayed

00:53:17The the EA is

00:53:20Yeah, I guess delay is the project delayed

00:53:23For the duration of this administration, or are you continuing to work on it?

00:53:28Is it dead as far as your office is concerned?

00:53:31Senator no, it is not dead as far as my office and what's happening

00:53:35as I was saying that we are we are

00:53:40Our plates are full. I like to make sure that we get things done and who made this decision and done well

00:53:46Who made the decision?

00:53:48It was it was a collective decision about workload

00:53:51Which I always was it was it you was it someone at the department or was it out of the White House itself?

00:53:56It was a collective decision about workload with with the department with the department. So the White House wasn't directing this

00:54:04Not that I know of

00:54:06Okay, I'm I'm actually just stunned with your response here today

00:54:12you knew we were going to have an

00:54:15Opportunity to discuss this and the fact that you can't give me really a straight answer as to where you are

00:54:23Workload give me a break. You've been working on this for 10 years

00:54:2910 years and

00:54:30now

00:54:32You've come and you can't tell me whether or not it's cancelled

00:54:36It's delayed if it's going to continue if it's dead for this the duration of this administration

00:54:42My time is over, but I'm hopeful we have a second round

00:54:45Senator Wyden, thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, and

00:54:48I want to talk briefly about a bill that is really historic for Oregon and that is the Malheur County

00:54:56Empowerment for the Oahu

00:54:58Legislation there has been gridlock on this issue for literally 50 years in my state

00:55:05and now we've been able to bring together the ranchers and

00:55:11environmental folks

00:55:13It's passed this committee. Senator Barrasso has given us valuable input, you know in terms of grazing

00:55:21flexibility and we're very excited about

00:55:24What is at hand and what we want to do is make sure

00:55:30Apropos of today that issues like grazing for example are is compatible with

00:55:37conservation

00:55:38Objectives on the landscape and I'd like to hear your thoughts with respect to the rule that you're talking about

00:55:47Because I'm particularly interested in getting input on how we keep building on this goodwill

00:55:54In other words, it's not an accident that it's taken 50 years to get common ground

00:56:00I mean, this is a very challenging area people back east for example

00:56:05Call this, you know, Oregon's version of the Grand Canyon

00:56:08My constituents call it home and they want to have the ranchers and environmental folks get together

00:56:13We've made a lot of headway. We continue to make more headway with respect to grazing

00:56:20Flexibility. So tell us a little bit about how our approach

00:56:25Fits in with what you all want to do particularly on grazing

00:56:29Senator thank you for the question grazing and conservation

00:56:34Could and should and do go hand in hand

00:56:37We're really clear about that in the preamble of the public lands rule that grazing done

00:56:42Well is a tool for conservation you and I have seen it on the ground

00:56:45I have seen I have seen dry desert turned into riparian

00:56:50oases through

00:56:52through grazing done well

00:56:55And so we see our permittees across 155 million acres as partners in this work

00:57:02Will you commit this morning because I think that what we're doing with grazing flexibility

00:57:09Has a lot of potential in other words in my conversations with Senator Barrasso and other senators of both political parties

00:57:16I said, you know, we're trying to get our why he

00:57:18Legislation passed but we got a concept here that can be you know a winner in an area again where there's been

00:57:25intractable kind of gridlock and you know

00:57:28I look at what my ranchers say they want they really just want some flexibility

00:57:34So that when they're doing good work, they're going after noxious weeds or something like that

00:57:37They can have the flexibility to do it

00:57:39so will you commit to working with the rural communities in my home state and

00:57:45in other states to make sure that we really look at ways to tie grazing and conservation and kind of other

00:57:54Approaches so that there's flexibility for all users and we don't operate under the assumption

00:57:59We're gonna throw safety and environmental issues in the trash can we're just getting some flexibility

00:58:04Will you work commit to working with rural communities in the days ahead in Oregon and elsewhere on getting that done?

00:58:11Yes, senator. I would be really pleased to do so. We do need those flexibilities. Great. Thank you. Thank you

00:58:18Thank you

00:58:20Senator Risch, I'm mr. Manning. We're going to talk today about the Lava Ridge project. You're familiar with it. Okay, that's good

00:58:28I represent 1.8 million angry people

00:58:32Angry at you personally and it isn't just it isn't just the people of Idaho

00:58:38We've got the legislature voted unanimously House and Senate

00:58:42Objecting to this project saying don't do it

00:58:44We have the seven Idaho counties that are affected unanimously adopting a resolution of disapproval saying don't do it

00:58:52your own

00:58:54BLM resource

00:58:56advisory council voted

00:58:58Unanimously not to do this and said don't do this. The Shoshone-Bannock tribe submitted two comment letters in

00:59:06opposition to this project. The Friends of Minidoka, Minidoka Pilgrimage Planning Committee and Japanese American Citizen League who operate

00:59:14The sacred ground in there where they have a Japanese internment camp in World War two said don't do this

00:59:22We don't want this we are angry about this and I want to put this anger for you into perspective that you will understand

00:59:30You remember

00:59:31Previously your foray with Idaho was engagement in a conspiracy

00:59:38To spike trees in the National Forest in Idaho

00:59:41You recall that after you did that the people that were charged that you testified against and returned for an immunity

00:59:48Agreement went to prison over it

00:59:50Idahoans were angry. They were angry with those people. They were angry with you

00:59:55Now they're seeing the same thing out of you because none of them want the debauchment of this

01:00:01100,000 acres with these

01:00:03660 foot towers on it. So

01:00:06Do you understand how angry we are about this?

01:00:10Senator I can hear the anger in your voice and I know that change is difficult. This wind proposal is big

01:00:18but what we did do with your constituents was listen very hard and the

01:00:23Proposal now. No you didn't. The proposal now is halved

01:00:27And and yet it will still provide energy for up to 500,000 homes almost a gigawatt of power. Were those homes located?

01:00:35I'll tell you California, you know that you think that makes us happy

01:00:40Why don't you put this project in California if they need the energy so bad do it down there

01:00:46We don't want this project in Idaho

01:00:49So I want I have a question for you

01:00:51You did this by the way, you were talking about the shortage of your manpower you put out this this 832 page

01:00:59Environmental impact statement. That's nothing but drivel

01:01:02In this statement, you know what I can't find

01:01:05Anybody who supports this from Idaho? Can you name somebody or some entity in Idaho that supports this project?

01:01:13Senator I have seen a couple hundred comments in support from compared to how many opposed

01:01:20I I don't know the vote count. I'll help you out. Yeah, it's in the tens of thousands

01:01:27Nobody wants this

01:01:30Nobody wants this

01:01:33Can you name anybody or any entity that wants this

01:01:38Senator the anger that you're talking about is of concern to me on the ground. I'm not going to rise to the rhetoric and name names

01:01:47So what are we gonna do about this be with all the opposition from Idaho and us getting no benefit out of this

01:01:55whatsoever

01:01:56What are we gonna do about this that you just set that aside and proceed on who wants this

01:02:01Who who is it that's pursuing this? Is it you?

01:02:06Senator we responded to an

01:02:09Application from a company to develop public lands. It's what we do every day

01:02:13So it is a company that came forward and you're responding to them and ignoring

01:02:191.8 million people

01:02:22Plus the entire

01:02:24Establishment of our government in the state of Idaho. You're ignoring that for the company that came in and said

01:02:29Oh here we wanted to botch a hundred thousand acres and put two hundred and forty one windmills up on this land

01:02:35That's that's how you're gonna proceed

01:02:38Senator the final EIS does call for that the original proposal called for 400 turbines

01:02:45and

01:02:46We listened to your constituents we listened you didn't hear any constituents say cut the four hundred and a half

01:02:53Every constituent said don't do this

01:02:56So you didn't listen

01:02:59Senator I hear the frustration and anger in your voice

01:03:02We have issued the final environmental impact statement, of course is not the final decision that comes at the record of decision

01:03:09You know, I

01:03:11Warned everyone when your confirmation was up if you had someone who had such disrespect for the natural resources of

01:03:19America for our country and for my state, Idaho

01:03:22This is what we were going to see you ought to be ashamed. The administration ought to be ashamed

01:03:28The Secretary of Interior ought to be ashamed. This is awful. Awful. Awful

01:03:34Management of our public lands. It's not multiple use. It's abusive our public lands

01:03:40Senator Hovind

01:03:44Thank You, mr. Chairman

01:03:49Director

01:03:50Right now you're working on a draft resource management plan RMP

01:03:55for BLM lands in North Dakota

01:03:59On that the

01:04:01You put out a preferred alternative that we have serious concerns about

01:04:06Myself senator Kramer representative Armstrong sent a letter to you

01:04:11Expressing those concerns and I'd like mr. Chairman to ask unanimous consent to make that letter a part of the record

01:04:18mr. Chairman

01:04:20Without objection. Thank you

01:04:23Essentially this preferred alternative would close off new leasing

01:04:28to 45 percent of

01:04:31Potential federal oil and gas acreage and it would close off new leasing to

01:04:3695 percent of federal coal acreage now, it's important to understand that in the in the

01:04:43grasslands the BLM lands in North Dakota you have

01:04:49Checkerboard issues, so it's a split estate ownership. So in a lot of cases where

01:04:54The federal government may own the surface acreage. They don't own the minerals

01:05:00It's those are privately owned by private

01:05:03individuals, so

01:05:05the net result is because of the checkerboard on the surface and then the split estate ownership where

01:05:11The federal government may own the land but not the minerals underneath

01:05:15by

01:05:16Restricting this access you are restricting private owners from accessing

01:05:22Their property you're disenfranchising them in essence of taking with no compensation

01:05:28And so in this draft management plan, that's exactly what you're doing. You are

01:05:34stranding

01:05:36private owners mineral rights and

01:05:39Denying them their ability to receive very significant revenue for for their minerals. So

01:05:46Please explain to me how that is in any way

01:05:49reasonable or fair to do that under this type, I mean

01:05:55How can you do that in a resource management plan and in any way shape or form

01:06:01Believe that that is fair and equitable

01:06:04Senator thanks for the question a resource management plan, of course is about land and mineral allocation

01:06:11We've issued the draft. We are

01:06:14We are hearing the comments and I look forward to reading your letter

01:06:19I don't think I've seen it yet, but I I will find it and read it

01:06:22Would you agree though, for example if you were the owner of whatever property rights and the federal government was

01:06:30Preventing you from utilizing those in full compliance with the law that that would be an unfair taking

01:06:38Senator I'm not an attorney, but what I do know but then just on the common sense and just common sense fairness

01:06:45So, I mean, it's your neighbor

01:06:47You restrict your neighbor from the use of his property

01:06:51Arbitrarily, is that a fair or a reasonable thing to do just in general? Yeah, it's senator

01:06:57I hear your frustration. What we try to do is balance the laws and

01:07:02And the objectives of the administration laws require multiple use on these federal lands

01:07:09So whether it's this resource management plan or your recent April 18th rule regarding public lands

01:07:16Where you are now putting in place?

01:07:19Restoration or mitigation leases, okay, which lock away the ability for multiple use once you've put these

01:07:28Mitigation leases in place and we don't even know for how long

01:07:32Now that's limited to one use that violates the law of multiple use

01:07:37So on the one hand, you've got an unreasonable taking and second you're in violation of the law that requires multiple use

01:07:44How can you go down that track and say that you're either being fair to people or complying with the law?

01:07:51You're doing this through

01:07:53executive fiat

01:07:55You're not you're not adhering to some new law

01:07:58There was no law passed that suddenly said you can abrogate all fairness and former laws or laws in the books

01:08:05There's nothing that says that you just threw through executive fiat are blowing right by the absolute requirements of the law

01:08:14Senator

01:08:15With respect mitigation leases won't be single-use

01:08:19Well, really? Yeah, tell me about that. So you're gonna allow you're gonna allow farming

01:08:24You're gonna allow energy development all those things on these

01:08:27Mitigation leases so because I'd like to see that in writing because you know, you know, that'll be great

01:08:32I want to see that in writing for you. It is in the rule that that

01:08:36There are often overlapping uses in in in what we do

01:08:41So for example, there could be a grazing

01:08:45Permittee who's got a grazing lease on a piece of ground

01:08:49Mitigation company wants to come in and say hey, I'd like to improve your grass

01:08:54Can I work with you? Can we put a mitigation lease on on this?

01:08:58They come to the BLM and say we'd like to do a mitigation lease

01:09:01And so those uses then become compatible transmission line across

01:09:06Across the section for example can be compatible with we won't crease production. We're trying to get to through the mitigation

01:09:13We'll want those assurances from you in writing

01:09:16And so we'll want you to come out and explain that to our ranchers and to our energy industry to our tourism industry

01:09:23We we truly do have multiple use in compliance with the law which benefits everybody and we're gonna want your commitment

01:09:30That that can continue it is exactly what the rule envisions

01:09:34Senator Hawley

01:09:37Thank You. Mr. Chairman

01:09:39Before I start mr. Chairman, I want to say thank you for your strong statement on the RICA

01:09:44Legislation yesterday and for your your leadership on this issue. It's it's much much appreciated

01:09:51Director sound Manning. Let me just start with this when you came before this

01:09:57Committee in 2021. This is before I was a member of the committee

01:10:00You were asked as part of your confirmation whether you'd ever been investigated arrested

01:10:04Charged by any federal state or local law enforcement authority for the violation of any federal state or local law

01:10:09Regulation or ordinance other than a minor traffic offense. We asked that question of all people for the committee you answered

01:10:15No, do you stand by that testimony?

01:10:18Senator I do stand by that testimony and was proud to be confirmed to do this job. What's tree spiking?

01:10:25director

01:10:28Senator again this committee

01:10:32Engaged quite a bit and that's a factual question. Do you know what it is?

01:10:35And I do it is you want to tell us go ahead. Yeah, it's when people illegally put metal objects into trees

01:10:43so that they

01:10:45Prevent a timber sale what happens if the chainsaw hits a spike?

01:10:51Sometimes when a chainsaw hits a spike it can buck the saw

01:10:54Yeah violently recoil potentially kill or seriously maim the loggers

01:10:58yeah, which is why I

01:11:00Notified the federal authorities that I had heard that that loggers like for instance George Alexander

01:11:06this is from an article in The Washington Post explaining what happens when

01:11:11Trees get spiked loggers who are blue-collar workers. By the way, these are not wealthy people

01:11:16These are not people who have had the advantages

01:11:20Perhaps you and others have had people like George Alexander who for example in May 1987 at age 23

01:11:26His chainsaw hit a tree spike. I'm quoting his face was slashed from eye to chin

01:11:32His teeth were smashed. His jaw was cut in half. That's a typical

01:11:37typical reaction when a logger hits a

01:11:41Spike now you just said I think just a second ago that you were involved

01:11:45There were two people convicted in 1989 to putting 500 pounds of spikes in an Idaho forest

01:11:53Senator Rich mentioned this just a moment ago

01:11:56You testified you sent a letter to the Forest Service on their behalf

01:11:59I have it here the letter says among other things this letter sent to notify you that the post office sale

01:12:05That's the forest sale in Idaho has been spiked heavily

01:12:09The reason for this second for this action is that this piece of land is very special to the earth that is home to the

01:12:14elk, deer, mountain lions, birds, and especially the trees

01:12:18It goes on I would be more than willing to pay you a dollar for the sale

01:12:21But you'd have to find me first and that could be your worst nightmare

01:12:24P.S. You bastards go in there anyway, and a lot of people could get hurt

01:12:28Why'd you send this?

01:12:30Senator as I said at the time over 30 years ago a really

01:12:36Angry and turns out violent person handed me that letter

01:12:41And said will you send this to the Forest Service and you did why I would

01:12:46What you just talked about in 1987 to a logger. This is

01:12:511989 I understood that people could get hurt. Why did you notify the federal authorities?

01:12:57What why did you send this threatening letter on behalf of these two men who were convicted of crimes?

01:13:03I was terrified of them and

01:13:05And

01:13:07Wanted no involvement with them

01:13:08Which you want to know involvement that you sent a letter that says you bastards go in there anyway

01:13:12And a lot of people could get hurt

01:13:14Why didn't you just contact the FBI or any anybody any local authority?

01:13:18because the

01:13:21Because the person who did this act

01:13:24Threatened people's lives if they disclosed who did it. Yeah. In fact, you were investigated for being involved weren't you?

01:13:31here we have the letter sent to this committee from

01:13:34the special agent of

01:13:36The USDA Forest Service Michael Merkley who was in charge of the investigation

01:13:40He says and he details this in the letter to this committee that he investigated you for your involvement

01:13:48He says and I'm going to quote now

01:13:50Grand jury subpoenas were issued for hair samples handwriting exemplars

01:13:55Fingerprints these subpoenas were served on person suspected of being involved having knowledge of the incident including miss Tracy stone Manning

01:14:04You've testified you were never investigated ever for anything. Why did you lie to this committee?

01:14:09Senator

01:14:13This committee

01:14:15delved deeply

01:14:17Went into the court records where I testified against these men were you issued subpoenas?

01:14:23No, you were not issued. I was issued a subpoena to appear before a grand jury with really because here's what he says

01:14:31Miss stone Manning was extremely difficult to work with. She was antagonistic

01:14:34She was uncooperative refused to provide her hair handwriting exemplars and fingerprints as ordered by the grand jury

01:14:41It was not until after we informed her

01:14:42She would be arrested if she did not comply with the subpoenas that she provided the samples to me

01:14:47So you were senator Holly you were the target of an investigation. You have a question

01:14:52You were the target of an investigation. You lied to this committee. Why?

01:14:56Senator I never received a target letter. I'm curious

01:14:59I understand why

01:15:01This committee jumped over 30 years of my career

01:15:06but in considering my nomination and went to a

01:15:10Salacious moment from graduate school where I where I tried to protect people

01:15:14What I don't understand is why we're not looking at the last three and a half years now

01:15:18Here's why senator because people are killed in these kind of incidents

01:15:23It is an act of your time is expired a special agent in charge found that you were involved

01:15:28You lied to this committee and saying that you were never investigated senator

01:15:32Investigation. In fact, you were your time lied to us blatantly fire and you know it

01:15:38Senator James

01:15:41Chairman ranking member. Thank you

01:15:43Dr. So many I would like to talk about the last three and a half years great

01:15:47This is the first time you're in front of the committee since your nomination back in June of 21

01:15:52Since then your actions your agency has taken or failed to take have been

01:15:57Devastating to Montana and a rural communities that depend on federal lands for their livelihoods

01:16:03It's no secret the Biden ministration the EPA

01:16:06Department of the Interior and the BLM are doing everything they can to eliminate oil eliminate gas eliminate coal production in the United States

01:16:14And if anybody doubts that go to the White House gov website

01:16:18You can see it says stop LNG eliminate fossil fuels at least their public about it

01:16:22Let me name just a few actions that impact, Montana

01:16:26on day one

01:16:28President Biden cancels the Keystone XL pipeline a gut punch to so many eastern Montana counties a million barrels a day

01:16:36stopped by Joe Biden

01:16:39day one Biden

01:16:41Starts stopping oil and gas leasing on federal lands and then we've had an onslaught of rules from the EPA

01:16:48Methane rules targeting small oil and gas producers the mats and clean power plant 2.0

01:16:55That's targeting the coal strip power plant

01:16:58We are now on a path

01:16:59Two of our four coal ship has been shut down power units. The last two now will be shut down unless these

01:17:07Overreaches come from the Biden ministration are stopped

01:17:12The Department of Energy stops. They said pause

01:17:16Good grief

01:17:17they stopped LNG export permits the Office of Surface Mining slow locks coal permits in Montana in hopes the mines will be forced to

01:17:25close down and

01:17:26now to the BLM

01:17:28The BLM has only held two oil and gas lease sales in Montana since Biden took office

01:17:35This is under your watch. You're supposed to have at least for a year

01:17:41BLM's new public lands rule seeks to sideline oil and gas production BLM's new oil and gas leasing rule sets bonding requirements

01:17:48So high our small producers can't keep up and just last month the BLM announced a proposed plan to eliminate

01:17:57coal leasing in Montana and Wyoming

01:18:01Wyoming's the number one coal producer

01:18:03Montana has the most coal potential of any states in the United States and these are just the tip of the iceberg

01:18:09The Biden administration has one goal it's radical is to end oil

01:18:16gas and coal production in the United States and you aren't hiding it

01:18:21Director stone manning the proposed mile city and Buffalo management plans seek to end all coal leasing in the Powder River Basin

01:18:29This extreme proposal seeks to end leasing in the largest coal producing area in the United States

01:18:35We're almost half of all the country's coal is produced in where coal mines serve as a key driver of the economy and

01:18:43Maintains strong support from local communities and leaders

01:18:47What reasoning?

01:18:50Besides simply being opposed to coal does the BLM have for closing leasing on?

01:18:56America's largest coal field

01:19:00Senator the president has asked us to transition to a clean energy economy

01:19:04Free of carbon pollution by 2035 an economy wide by 2050

01:19:12Lands leased in the mile city field office

01:19:15Are leased through do you agree with the president's goal on that? Is that is that the right goal?

01:19:19I do so you think we shut down oil and gas and coal. I

01:19:24Think we're at record production. Should we shut down? I don't mean you just told me what you're trying to go to zero

01:19:30Do you believe we should shut down oil gas and coal production the United States, I believe that we should become

01:19:37Energy secure through you're not answering my question

01:19:39You just said you want to go to zero carbon you if you if you if you agree with the Biden administration's objective and vision

01:19:45I'm asking you do you think we should shut down oil gas and coal?

01:19:50Yeah, if you can let me finish my sentence, I would say to you

01:19:54I believe that we need to transition to a clean energy economy built on renewable energy

01:19:59Which will keep this country secure. Okay, then that's green speak

01:20:02Yeah, I just want but I just want we chance question. Does that mean by getting to that that we shut down oil gas and coal?

01:20:08We're gonna use oil and gas and coal for decades through the transition. But ultimately do you believe we should ultimately shut it down?

01:20:15We need it through the transition

01:20:18But you believe we should shut it down I believe that we're gonna need it through a transition to a clean energy economy

01:20:25You should go talk to the Germans about that vision. See how that's working out for them

01:20:28have

01:20:29Have you personally talked to Montana coal communities and the families who will be negatively affected by your proposed plan?

01:20:36Have you talked to the Montanans out there?

01:20:39Senators, you know, I had the honor of serving. I know you didn't under governor Bullock

01:20:43I just want to know have you talked to Montana families about this

01:20:46Have you talked to the families impacted by the Keystone pipeline when you shut it down?

01:20:49If you took been to Coal Strip and talked to the families out there

01:20:52They're scared to death of what's going on with the Biden administration is shutting down their livelihoods

01:20:56I have been in Coal Strip in front of 400 people when I was DEQ director. No, wait, I don't know

01:21:01No, I I know

01:21:02How about as now you're a fed have you been out there since you have been out implementing these policies shut it down?

01:21:08I have I have not spoken directly with families. That's what I was asking. Yeah

01:21:13Okay, I didn't think so because if you did you might get a little different view

01:21:16You probably might get my view versus the view hidden from Joe Biden

01:21:19Which is so out of touch with where most Montanans are the BLM's senator Daines your your times expired

01:21:25I'm gonna try to give everyone a second round. Okay, we're limited on time

01:21:30I'm gonna forego my second round of questions

01:21:33But I would ask people to try to keep their questions to three minutes so that we can get through everyone who wants a second

01:21:38chance, thank you, Jim

01:21:40Thank You member process Thank You. Mr

01:21:42Mr. Stoneman the bureau has yet to issue leases to the winning bidders of the December 2020 oil and gas leases

01:21:49So it's now 2024 2020 to 2024. When do you plan to issue the leases?

01:21:54Senator thank you for that question. We are still working our way through

01:22:00multiple court decisions

01:22:02When when we issue them we want them to be durable and stick because you know

01:22:07The law requires you issue the leases within 60 days and it's now been over three and a half years

01:22:12So when do you plan, you know, give me a date when you plan to issue these leases that by law should have been

01:22:19Leased senator. I don't have a date for you at this time. Okay

01:22:23Three and a half years long time again

01:22:26We need a date next in June of 2022 the bureau settled a lawsuit related to oil and gas leases

01:22:32that it had issued between

01:22:342015 and 2020 in Wyoming in that settlement the bureau agreed to update the environmental analysis of the leases

01:22:42So the Bureau's Wyoming office the state office in Wyoming of the Bureau of Land Management

01:22:47Says they finished updating exactly what you wanted last summer

01:22:51Finished what you asked for last summer. So why is your bureau not then release this updated analysis?

01:22:58Senator again as I was mentioning we are

01:23:02reconciling a different court decisions and opinions throughout our

01:23:07Throughout the West and we want to make sure that we are consistent

01:23:11It seems like a lot of foot dragging either the state officers in can't issue the permits to drill on these leases refuses to until the

01:23:17Bureau releases the updated analysis

01:23:19Which is now done over which is done a year ago. So again, when will the Bureau release that analysis?

01:23:25I'm sorry, which analysis the one that was done a year ago by the Bureau Wyoming's Bureau of Land Management based on the

01:23:332022 settlement. Yeah again senator. I don't have a date for you

01:23:35Yeah, well, we need a date and this you can see how every member of this side says this is a deliberate

01:23:41sabotage of American energy by an administration with this approach

01:23:47Which is a pipe dream about their view of when we can get to a

01:23:51carbon-free

01:23:53America and as our hearing showed last week, mr

01:23:56Chairman China's beaten us to this because they're putting all the energy into AI and that puts us at a competitive world

01:24:03Disadvantage final questions that we're trying to keep this under three minutes

01:24:05So last weekend I was at the Wyoming stock growers summer convention in Douglas

01:24:10Number folks expressed concern about the process by which your bureau considers public comments

01:24:16Does the bureau require individuals who submit public comments to identify who they are and where they are from?

01:24:24Senator I

01:24:25Believe that is the case and if I could revisit one if I could revisit your last question

01:24:32I don't think it's sabotaged to be at record production highs for oil

01:24:38And to issue 11,000 a PD

01:24:40It's a sabotage of public land use of the multiple use of the lands on publicly

01:24:44Well, so this is the question getting with a question at front right now

01:24:47So someone from a country like China or Russia or a computer which doesn't want us to develop our energy or our mineral resources

01:24:55Are they allowed to submit public comments?

01:24:58Is that correct? Because that's what we're hearing

01:25:02The answer is yes, yeah, I assume it is

01:25:05Yeah, so they can we euro even determine then whether a comment has submitted by a human or by a machine

01:25:12The the answer is no you can't in light of all this shouldn't the bureau give the most weight to

01:25:19comments from the people and the

01:25:21Communities who actually live as my friend and colleague just said of what's happening in Idaho and what's happening who actually live in most affected

01:25:27By the proposals you might have suggested that that your colleague has bots putting in comments. I don't think that's true

01:25:34We we read the comments very thoroughly

01:25:37I think that we can tell when it's a bot and when it's a Russian and when it's when it's an actual, Idaho

01:25:43And as as the case is with what we got from the lava project

01:25:47I don't think I don't understand what you're getting at senator

01:25:49We're getting at the fact that it seems that the comments coming in and are being counted as equal those have been in the land

01:25:54For five generations and those coming from Communist China. Thank you. Mr. Chairman

01:25:58senator Murkowski

01:26:00Let me just try to wrap up where we were with PL 5150. Do you have any idea the cost of?

01:26:08The process what it took to to get to the draft

01:26:13RMP is

01:26:16That yeah the for the central Yukon, yes

01:26:19I don't it's in the millions of dollars

01:26:22But I don't have the 2020 draft RMP is cost the BLM a little over 5 million to produce the final

01:26:29RMP is document says that it cost the lead agency BLM

01:26:336.7 million to produce to kind of put that into perspective

01:26:37the FY 25 budget

01:26:40requests

01:26:4128.8 million for the entire Alaska conveyance account. So

01:26:47You can see my frustration here. You've spent somewhere between five and six million dollars of a

01:26:5328 million dollar in title entire budget

01:26:56Ten years and have gotten nowhere and what you've told me is you have a manpower issue

01:27:03Which makes no sense to me that you would invest this money invest this time and then say well later

01:27:13You made a commitment to me

01:27:15when

01:27:16You were before this committee three years ago, and you said you have my commitment that I understand

01:27:23The job is to follow the law and that the federal government has commitments to the state of Alaska

01:27:29You acknowledge those commitments to the state of Alaska, you know

01:27:33Very well, the Alaska Land Transfer Acceleration Act because I asked you about it. Then I

01:27:39mentioned the the report in 2009 the updated report in in 2019

01:27:45Finding that the lifting of the vast majority of these withdrawals for the PLO's would be can quote consistent with the protection of the public

01:27:53interest in these lands

01:27:55Approximately 95% of these withdrawals would be that could be lifted are consistent with the protections of the public's interest

01:28:03So you've got these findings you've got the recommendation

01:28:07How I don't understand how the recommendation within the central

01:28:12You can't Yukon RMP to not lift any of the public land orders in that area is

01:28:17consistent with the act

01:28:20Consistent with your commitment to me that says I get it

01:28:23I know that the federal government has commitments to the state of Alaska. They're outlined in the law and

01:28:30then ten years

01:28:32Millions of dollars and never mind because that's where we're feeling like we are right now

01:28:37Senator I'm gonna get back for the record for you the the budget question

01:28:41It's my understanding that the central Yukon RMP budget came out of our planning budget not the conveyance budget

01:28:47So whether it came out of the conveyance budget or the planning budget

01:28:50I've spent millions of dollars ten million ten years and you've gotten nowhere. The last thing that I would like

01:28:56From you is in her hearing on May 8th. Secretary. Holland was before this committee and in response to me

01:29:04On the Ambler Road, she promised that she would quote be happy to follow up with me on specific

01:29:12legal

01:29:13Justifications I asked the secretary to provide

01:29:17To to make clear where it says

01:29:21that the

01:29:23Access is superseded

01:29:25Ambler's access is superseded by general right-of-way authorities for BLM provided by flip month. So as a lawyer

01:29:31I looked at that and said that makes no sense to me. So I asked her give me the specific legal

01:29:37Justification she said happy to follow you follow up. That was over a month ago

01:29:42Can you can you give me that analysis that the secretary promised

01:29:49senator the the

01:29:51Legal underpinnings especially on our 810 requirements under a nilka for subsistence are going to be

01:29:59Outlined and documented in the record of decision, which is forthcoming

01:30:03well, it seems to me that when I asked the secretary and she says I will be happy to follow up with

01:30:10Me on

01:30:11Specific legal justifications. I don't feel like I should have to wait until I get a final record of decision

01:30:19To understand that I think I had a commitment from the secretary as I think I had a commitment

01:30:24From you three years ago, and I don't think that either one of you are following up on it

01:30:29Thank You. Mr. Chairman senator Rish

01:30:33I guess I

01:30:36Can see you're a little aggravated that we're after you for something that happened quite some time ago

01:30:42But I want you to know that that

01:30:46Ecoterrorism is so bad that when someone commits that they certainly ought to be disqualified from management of public

01:30:53Resources, that's why we're angry about this now senator

01:30:57Holly wasn't here

01:30:58But I was here when you had your hearing and you didn't tell us anything about that

01:31:03You swore that you had never been investigated and you knew better than that

01:31:07In fact, you had an attorney that attorney negotiated an immunity agreement so that you wouldn't go to prison. Isn't that true?

01:31:15Yeah, it's a yes or no, ma'am

01:31:18Senator I never received a letter saying I was under investigation. That was the question

01:31:24and I

01:31:27There was there was never a question about whether you received a letter that you were under investigation

01:31:32The question is the question that was asked you was have you ever been under investigation and you knew you were under investigation

01:31:38We were never able to cross-examine you on this and as a matter of fact after that when it came to light we started

01:31:45sending

01:31:47Letters asking questions about it and you wouldn't answer those letters and you wound up getting confirmed on a party-line vote

01:31:53Of course senator all of this came out also in my Senate confirmation at the state of Montana

01:32:00Where we went into great depth about don't know anything about the state of Montana

01:32:05I'm talking about sitting right here looking like this where you were trying to become the head of the Bureau of Land Management

01:32:12Let me let me say something else. It really troubles me is the lack of remorse of your involvement in this

01:32:19You're saying over there. I was handed a letter and I had to send it because I was scared the the investigation

01:32:26Had things very different than that

01:32:27There's a statement in there by the investigator that says Stone Manning quote was an active member of the original group that planned the spiking

01:32:36There is a quote in here from a witness who overheard you

01:32:40She said that she had overheard we're in a conversation where Miss Stone Manning along with other

01:32:47Co-conspirators planned the tree spiking and discussed whether to use the ceramic or metal spikes in the trees

01:32:54We all know the different how important that is whether you use metal or ceramic

01:32:58Lastly the ringleader of the whole thing. Mr. Blunt said after your hearing and you said oh, well, you know

01:33:04I didn't know anything about this till he handed me the letter

01:33:06He said this is the ringleader of your conspiracy said quote

01:33:10She knew about it far in advance a couple of months before

01:33:15So your lack of remorse here is despicable to be honest with you senator

01:33:20I have to say for the record none of what you just said is true

01:33:24Well, somebody sure thought it was

01:33:27And I did you sign an immunity agreement? I actually couldn't tell you the difference between a ceramic and a metal spike

01:33:32I actually don't know the difference

01:33:35Well, the difference is you know is when they go through the mill their x-rayed and if there's metal in it

01:33:40They'll be able to kick it out. If you put a ceramic spike in they'll never pick it up and it'll kill mill workers

01:33:45That's the difference between ceramic and metal and they overheard you having this conversation with with someone else

01:33:51Look I I can't tell you how

01:33:55Deeply disappointed I am not only in what you've done

01:33:58You wanted us to look at the last three and a half years the last three and a half years has been a disgrace

01:34:04As you've heard here today. Thank you. Mr. Chair Senate senator dates

01:34:09Chairman, thank you

01:34:10I want to talk about the bonding the BLM's most recent oil and gas leasing will increase the minimum lease bonds from

01:34:17$10,000 to

01:34:19$150,000 to radical change

01:34:23Disregards the cost to reclaim a Montana. Well, it punishes the small family-owned oil and gas producers in our state

01:34:30simply put Montana's oil and gas producers can't afford a

01:34:351,500% increase in bonding. Did you talk to Montana producers on how this new rule affects them?

01:34:44senator we

01:34:46First I'll start with

01:34:48Simple it's a simple question. Did you speak directly with any Montana producers and how this rule would affect them?

01:34:53I've spoke with the Western Energy Association and I think there was Montana producers in the room, but I can't remember

01:35:01You can't think of a Montana producer you spoke to them because I tell you they would have given you an earful on this

01:35:08Because they're giving me an earful on them

01:35:10So the bonding rates have not been raised in over 50 years

01:35:14The GAO and the inspector general both advised that we do so to protect the American tax

01:35:19But do you think it might be good to mean maybe go out to Montana and ask the producers?

01:35:26What a 1,500% increase might do to these small producers. Well, we did that in a draft comment period

01:35:31That's what that's what it's helpful to go talk to the people that are going to be affected. Just a good lesson in life

01:35:37I

01:35:39want to talk about

01:35:40What's going on grazing the grazing on federal lands provides billions of dollars each year in ecosystem services

01:35:47Your agency feels need to attempt to separate grazing from other conservation values. Do you believe that grazing provides a conservation benefit?

01:35:56It can I do you do great

01:35:59Will you commit to ensuring that the implementation of the public lands rule will not push Montana ranchers off?

01:36:05their BLM grazing allotments

01:36:08Senator in no way. Does the public lands rule envision that?

01:36:12So if you see any of that, would you confront it and say we've got to change something here. So we're not pushing

01:36:18Grazing activities off of BLM lands

01:36:21Yeah, okay. Thank you. Yeah

01:36:24Areas are critical environmental concern or public lands where special management is needed to protect unique resources and see Atlanta to protect from hazards

01:36:31I've got a question

01:36:34They put these implementations as restrictions on land while waiting for formal change to land use plans

01:36:39What public input would be required prior to these restrictions being put in place? Sorry, I missed the beginning of that

01:36:45So it's the aerials of critical environmental concern, right? So what inputs required to before putting these restrictions in place? Do you think so?

01:36:54As you know areas of critical environmental concern are only designated through management plans

01:37:00And so and management plans last decades and in some cases if somebody brings us a nomination for an ACEC

01:37:10Something arises that we need to address

01:37:13we

01:37:14Look at the relevance and importance criteria as Flipma tells us to do

01:37:18If we find that it meets that criteria that it's relevant and important and requires specific management

01:37:24We can put that temporary management into place until we get into the next planning period one follow-up question

01:37:31Chairman and I'll be finished

01:37:32back on the the increase here in the bonding would you

01:37:37Meet with some of my Montana producers so you can hear firsthand from them. I

01:37:41Would love to okay. I'd love to set that up. So commit to that. We will get the Monty producers because I think you're gonna hear a

01:37:491,500 percent increase all at once here is something that is going to be very detrimental here back home in Montana. Thank you

01:37:57Thank you to our witness

01:37:59Members will have until closing business tomorrow to submit additional questions for the record and this committee stands adjourned

01:38:18You

Bureau Of Land Management Director Tracy Stone-Manning Faces Grilling In Senate Energy Committee

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