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Disputatio:Arma ignifera

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E Vicipaedia

Vide etiam wikt:disputatio:sclopetum. --Alex1011 07:13, 14 Septembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1000 pages

[fontem recensere]

(Copied from Usor:Rolandus/Most important 1000 pages/Firearm. --Rolandus 05:11, 11 Aprilis 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Hmm, can we count sclopetum? --Iustinus 09:13, 19 Martii 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just to mention: At the moment Sclopetum is not linked to en:Firearm. --Rolandus 20:09, 10 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, yeah, oddly it's linked to en:Long gun. It is sometimes claimed that sclopetum means "rifle." I don't know if period sources back up that equation, but modern Latinists generally seem to use it as a general term, and indeed sclopetum has several images of pistols. Now of course en uses the military terminology, i.e. en:Gun covers artillery (which really should be bombarda or tormentum), and en:firearm covers what is commonly called a "gun" by civilians. So imho it's safe to link sclopetum to en:firearm. --Iustinus 04:48, 11 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)[reply]
After dwelling on it a bit, I feel it would be a good thing in the long run to separate "Sclopetum" ="rifle" from "arma ignifera"="fire arms", "carabina"="carbine" (shorter variety of rifle); right now most of this page is a description of "arma ignifera"--Rafaelgarcia 21:29, 17 Augusti 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ex taberna simulatus(Infra) 

--Jondel (disputatio) 12:42, 4 Maii 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings. The article sclopetum have wrong interwiki links. The links lead to shotgun, while the Latin article sclopetum is about another weapon or name. It's discussion page leads to Disputatio:Arma ignifera. I do not really know how to solve it. Please help.

Donatello (disputatio) 00:04, 23 Aprilis 2013 (UTC).[reply]

The English rifle should link to Sclopetum while the shotgun link should be removed. Ok with all?--Jondel (disputatio) 11:00, 23 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I see. That sounds good. :) Unfortunately I couldn't find any name for "shotgun" in Latin. Anybody who knows/can?
Donatello (disputatio) 17:48, 23 Aprilis 2013 (UTC).[reply]
Not clear that we have separate words for "rifle" (= gun with long barrel with spiral groove) and "shotgun" (= any long-barrel gun, typically not rifled). In David Morgan's lexicon I find sclopetum, manuballista ignivoma, pyroballista, carabina (= "rifle"?), bombarda (= "musket" or "shotgun"?). English WP has separate articles for "[[:en:gun|gun]" and "firearm," which seems strange to me. Our Arma ignifera is linked with en:firearm, which is sensible enough. Our Carbina is linked with en:carbine, apparently a kind of short rifle. All our articles seem fairly short. Perhaps it would make sense to link sclopetum to en:gun and make it the most general article, about firearms with long or short barrels, rifled or not -- unless someone has the time, interest, and expertise to distinguish these various kinds of weaponry. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:29, 23 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed with the sclopetum-gun link. I have focile for shotgun and sclopetum striatum for rifle from Traupman. I would like to make changes accordingly however, anyone is free to make these changes.--Jondel (disputatio) 13:05, 26 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good Jondel. :) Thanks. Also thanks for the word to "shotgun". Is focile neutral? And where shoud it be stressed?
Donatello (disputatio) 15:43, 26 Aprilis 2013 (UTC).[reply]
I have to look at my notes. It is great you noticed this Donatello.--Jondel (disputatio) 09:51, 27 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]
the article armamignifera already gives more or less the correct terms. Sclopetum is any long firearm. Shotgun is sclopetum dispergens. Focile is a type of musket, one that uses flintlock mechanism. A rifle is a sclopetum torquens which perhaps better named sclopetum striatum (traupman)--118.160.19.127 18:05, 26 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is great we can agree on rifle. Perhaps we should house this all under the category of Armae igniferae. In the meantime I will work on the rifle article.--Jondel (disputatio) 09:51, 27 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Arma is already plural. The singular 'armum' doesn't exist; instead we use 'telum' for the singular idea; although I think telum is an offensive weapon only and doesn't include the idea of defense like arma does.--118.169.161.194 14:19, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. Could I ask the source for 'sclopetum dispergens'? To salvage the links, I would like to move the sclopetum article to 'sclopetum dispergens'. Then rewrite or translate from the English shotgun article. Can I ask also the source for focile as musket? I think sclopetum has to do with a certain Italian word for 'brush' which is used for old muskets. I can not say for sure. --Jondel (disputatio) 15:00, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Jondel there is no source for the usage of "sclopetum dispergens" as a noun meaning shotgun, only dispergere as part of a sentence describing ancient flintlock style dragoons and the like. Sclopetum dispergens is just a direct word for word translation of the english 'scatter gun' or 'scatter-gun' which is a common english synonym. Focile isn't the word for musket. Musket is mosquetum. Mosquetum focile or focile is clearly attested to mean a flintlock musket (also called a fusil in english/french and used by a soldier called a fusilier), but focile can be used to refer to any kind of flintlock gun (focile coming from 'petra focilis' meaning flint).--118.169.161.194 15:22, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. However, keep in mind in the future somebody else would see the Traupman entry and move the sclopetum dispergens to focile(for shotgun)...... Anyway, I would like to move the current sclopetum to 'sclopetum dispergens' and rewrite/translate from the shotgun article. Also create an arma ignifer category to house all related articles. Seriously.--Jondel (disputatio) 15:32, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Could we collate and summarize?

Secundum indicem Morganianum, sclopetum certissime est 'pistol': " manuballistula* [Latinitas]; pistolium* [Vox Lat.]; sclopêtum+ minus; sclopellum* [Avellanus] (Helf.) ]] manuballistula (LRL) ]] sclopetum (Lev.)" IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:49, 30 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Iam est Pistolium. Nunc sclopetum nexit a "Shotgun". Velim creare sclopetum dispergens nectando Shotgun. Mansit Sclopetum(?? how now brown cow).--Jondel (disputatio) 12:59, 30 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)[reply]

-This article is to exist independently, no interwiki links.