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Javonte Green

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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#61 » by WindyCityBorn » Sun Aug 4, 2024 5:55 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
We’re still not going to get anywhere near that. Lavine is still going to be the centerpiece of our offense even with Giddey having the ball.

This is not a good situation. His presence on the roster is badly counterproductive to the things we need to be doing this year.


He is. The easiest way to remedy that is to commit to him and trade Coby. I'm not particularly in favor of this path, but Coby will have significantly higher trade value than LaVine and if we're being honest Zach at his best is probably still better than Coby at his best


Ive heard people say this as a "what if" lately but I know it wouldn't even be an option under this regime.

If we trade Coby while keeping the Malcontent, we are basically deciding to burn it down even further. Malcontents don't turn it around and be happy in their situation. They always still get traded.

This team without Coby and Zach would rival Portland and Washington and bottom 3 feeder. Maybe worse. Something AKME clearly do not want to do.

So even if they did make a trade like that, they would just burn their new cap space on another player anyway. Now you will be paying someone else big money who may not even be better than if you kept Coby.

As fans though, we seem to have such short term memory. And people tend to cherry pick results of franchises that happen to do well.

You have to understand that when you tank or are perpetually bad, the coaching staff generally is bad too. That is when you have this carousal of bad coaches and management, that sours the psyche of their good young players. Basically you never get any good.

At the end of the day, its luck as I have always said. Whether its drafting, free agent signings or trades.

No good team is built exactly the same way. If there were a sure prototype, teams would routinely take 2-3 years after lottery to get back into contention. That clearly isn't true.

People always say we can stomach a rebuild. I say most people can not.

Most people can stomach a season or two. Its new, its no expectations, its kinda fun cause its different.

But that novelty wears off very quickly. We were real excited the first 2 years after the Jimmy trade. But the last 2 years were about as painful and nauseating as it could get.

I really enjoyed the last 2 years under Jim Boylen - SAID NO ONE EVER.

That is when Fire GarPax began.

But back to your point, if Coby were to get traded, it has to be a trade that we can't refuse. An actual Unprotected pick(s). Not some high protected lottery pick situation.

I would feel much better of that, then to just trade for trades sake.


Not always. Kobe wanted out of Los Angeles at one point. I do agree that there is no long term future for LaVine here unless we magically win 50+ games next season.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#62 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sun Aug 4, 2024 9:27 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Not always. Kobe wanted out of Los Angeles at one point. I do agree that there is no long term future for LaVine here unless we magically win 50+ games next season.


Meh not quite the same. Kobe barked in the offseason because he wanted more help. But after a talk with Kupchak he calmed down, then traded for Pau Gasol by trade deadline.

Kobe ultimately got what he wanted which was more help.

Zach just wants out. Remember this trade request was active while we still had Demar, Caruso and Vooch. So its not ilke Zach had trash. Zach is just done with us and wants out no matter who is there.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#63 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon Aug 5, 2024 1:06 am

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Not always. Kobe wanted out of Los Angeles at one point. I do agree that there is no long term future for LaVine here unless we magically win 50+ games next season.


Meh not quite the same. Kobe barked in the offseason because he wanted more help. But after a talk with Kupchak he calmed down, then traded for Pau Gasol by trade deadline.

Kobe ultimately got what he wanted which was more help.

Zach just wants out. Remember this trade request was active while we still had Demar, Caruso and Vooch. So its not ilke Zach had trash. Zach is just done with us and wants out no matter who is there.


True. At least Kobe already had success with the Lakers. Been nothing but misery for Zach as a Bull outside of one season. Know Klutch is telling him this too.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#64 » by Stratmaster » Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:05 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
How can he develop as 4th option? Whose shots is he taking away? People keep saying it’s on him, but who was stepping back so he could step forward? Demar? Coby? Vuc? Zach?

Obviously it should have been Vuc’s shots, but that obviously wasn’t gonna happen. Zach will just take the shots DeMar was getting, but at least it will be in the flow of the offense.

Pat will benefit from playing with Giddey. Probably an extra two easy scores a night.


Because he is a 4th option. Are you saying that Williams has shown something that makes him a 1 through 3 option, and all we have to do is give him the offense and he will bloom into a number 1 or 2 option? With what skillset? He hasn't been a quality 4th option. Even if his scoring production improved he doesn't rebound, is barely above average defensively, doesn't take care of the ball when handling it.

What in the world has he shown that indicates he should be seen as a top 3 option? He was gifted the starting job in every game he has been healthy for. Absolutely GIFTED it. Do you think every player drafted should just be inserted as a top 3 option because ...well... otherwise they are being held back? You have to PLAY your way into that designation.


Generally top 4 picks are given shots because they are on bad teams.


You are correct.
Amen Thompson started 22 games his rookie season and averaged 22 mpg
Keegan Murray did start most of the games his rookie season. Of course, he was also top 5 for ROY. He earned it.
Scottie Barnes started all his games his rookie year. He won the award for ROY

Notice that the 2 guys who were handed starter jobs actually won, or were in the running for, ROY? That is why they continued to start.

Now, the guy chosen the season before Scottie Barnes also started every game his rook season, and over 4 seasons has started 175 out of the 213 games he played in, with most the ones off the bench due to coming back from injuries. That's our Patrick Williams. Who has been a negative on the court all 4 seasons, has shown nothing other than a great 3 ball when wide open, and we are talking about as a #2 or 3 option.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#65 » by sco » Mon Aug 12, 2024 5:36 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
Because he is a 4th option. Are you saying that Williams has shown something that makes him a 1 through 3 option, and all we have to do is give him the offense and he will bloom into a number 1 or 2 option? With what skillset? He hasn't been a quality 4th option. Even if his scoring production improved he doesn't rebound, is barely above average defensively, doesn't take care of the ball when handling it.

What in the world has he shown that indicates he should be seen as a top 3 option? He was gifted the starting job in every game he has been healthy for. Absolutely GIFTED it. Do you think every player drafted should just be inserted as a top 3 option because ...well... otherwise they are being held back? You have to PLAY your way into that designation.


Generally top 4 picks are given shots because they are on bad teams.


You are correct.
Amen Thompson started 22 games his rookie season and averaged 22 mpg
Keegan Murray did start most of the games his rookie season. Of course, he was also top 5 for ROY. He earned it.
Scottie Barnes started all his games his rookie year. He won the award for ROY

Notice that the 2 guys who were handed starter jobs actually won, or were in the running for, ROY? That is why they continued to start.

Now, the guy chosen the season before Scottie Barnes also started every game his rook season, and over 4 seasons has started 175 out of the 213 games he played in, with most the ones off the bench due to coming back from injuries. That's our Patrick Williams. Who has been a negative on the court all 4 seasons, has shown nothing other than a great 3 ball when wide open, and we are talking about as a #2 or 3 option.

In hindsight, hard to argue there weren't better picks available than Pat. That said, he looked like a high-potential guy, it's just that his potential hasn't been realized. I think his injury setbacks also slowed his offseason skill development work. Also, having 3 ball dominant guys in the starting line-up worked against him. But he's a capable starting 3-D 3/4. He'll likely never be more than a 3rd option guy, but that's the level he's being paid at.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#66 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon Aug 12, 2024 9:30 pm

sco wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Generally top 4 picks are given shots because they are on bad teams.


You are correct.
Amen Thompson started 22 games his rookie season and averaged 22 mpg
Keegan Murray did start most of the games his rookie season. Of course, he was also top 5 for ROY. He earned it.
Scottie Barnes started all his games his rookie year. He won the award for ROY

Notice that the 2 guys who were handed starter jobs actually won, or were in the running for, ROY? That is why they continued to start.

Now, the guy chosen the season before Scottie Barnes also started every game his rook season, and over 4 seasons has started 175 out of the 213 games he played in, with most the ones off the bench due to coming back from injuries. That's our Patrick Williams. Who has been a negative on the court all 4 seasons, has shown nothing other than a great 3 ball when wide open, and we are talking about as a #2 or 3 option.

In hindsight, hard to argue there weren't better picks available than Pat. That said, he looked like a high-potential guy, it's just that his potential hasn't been realized. I think his injury setbacks also slowed his offseason skill development work. Also, having 3 ball dominant guys in the starting line-up worked against him. But he's a capable starting 3-D 3/4. He'll likely never be more than a 3rd option guy, but that's the level he's being paid at.


$15 million is more 4th or 5th option. Could even be a 6th man. It will be MLE money soon. A legit 3rd option on a contender is making at least $30 million.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#67 » by Stratmaster » Wed Aug 14, 2024 9:11 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
sco wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
You are correct.
Amen Thompson started 22 games his rookie season and averaged 22 mpg
Keegan Murray did start most of the games his rookie season. Of course, he was also top 5 for ROY. He earned it.
Scottie Barnes started all his games his rookie year. He won the award for ROY

Notice that the 2 guys who were handed starter jobs actually won, or were in the running for, ROY? That is why they continued to start.

Now, the guy chosen the season before Scottie Barnes also started every game his rook season, and over 4 seasons has started 175 out of the 213 games he played in, with most the ones off the bench due to coming back from injuries. That's our Patrick Williams. Who has been a negative on the court all 4 seasons, has shown nothing other than a great 3 ball when wide open, and we are talking about as a #2 or 3 option.

In hindsight, hard to argue there weren't better picks available than Pat. That said, he looked like a high-potential guy, it's just that his potential hasn't been realized. I think his injury setbacks also slowed his offseason skill development work. Also, having 3 ball dominant guys in the starting line-up worked against him. But he's a capable starting 3-D 3/4. He'll likely never be more than a 3rd option guy, but that's the level he's being paid at.


$15 million is more 4th or 5th option. Could even be a 6th man. It will be MLE money soon. A legit 3rd option on a contender is making at least $30 million.


Yep. If he can be a quality 5th starter or 6th man, 15 mil would be fine. I haven't seen anything to indicate he can be that. It certainly isn't impossible. I am just not betting on it. Hope I am wrong.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#68 » by Risk Addict » Fri Aug 16, 2024 12:33 pm

Came for some Javonte updates… last page is all Zach and Pat talk. They have their own threads….
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#69 » by Muzbar » Tue Aug 20, 2024 9:52 pm

Javonte signing with Pelicans.

Good luck to all 5 of them.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#70 » by dougthonus » Tue Aug 20, 2024 10:31 pm

We play the Pelicans on opening day, Javonte revenge game, though I am sure the reality is Javonte is grateful to the Bulls for the opportunities.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#71 » by MGB8 » Wed Aug 21, 2024 3:40 pm

Weird signing, IMO. With Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, Robinson Earl, how much playing time will be available for him. Would have made much more sense for a team like the Bucks, T-Wolves or Nuggets, all who could use an additional high energy bench defense (and would likely have minutes for him). Maybe he is just a lockerroom signing for them.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#72 » by DuckIII » Wed Aug 21, 2024 3:44 pm

Whew. One less “I doubt it will happen but I’m so psychology damaged by their incompetence I can’t stop being concerned” thing to worry about.

Hopefully it works out great for Green and he can get something longer term next summer. Maybe even in Chicago if we change our roster enough that he makes sense.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#73 » by drosestruts » Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:32 pm

Happy Javonte found a landing spot - don't necessarily like the fit of the Pelicans for him from an opportunity standpoint.

Green was awesome in his short end of season stint with us last year.

I was really rooting for him to somehow end up on the Nuggets - felt he would have fit great with their starting lineup.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#74 » by kodo » Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:45 pm

Yeah the fit isn't obviously there, but I can't imagine any win-now team not loving Javonte. He has that Caruso level energy which is valuable even w/o the 3P shot, and he actually shot really well from 3 in that short stint with us.
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Re: Javonte Green 

Post#75 » by WindyCityBorn » Wed Aug 21, 2024 9:40 pm

Happy for him. Glad he isn’t on the Bulls though. Give those minutes to Matas and/or Phillips.

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