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== Misuse of Administrator Tools ==
'''Initiated by ''' [[User:Jbhunley|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:135%;color:#886600">Jbh</span>]][[User_talk:Jbhunley|<span style="color: #00888F"><sup> Talk</sup></span>]] '''at''' 16:06, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Involved parties ===
<!-- Please change "userlinks" to "admin" if the party is an administrator -->
*{{userlinks|Jbhunley}}, ''filing party''
*{{admin|Future Perfect at Sunrise}}

;Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
<!-- All parties must be notified that the request has been filed, immediately after it is posted, and confirmation posted here. -->
*Future Perfect at Sunrise [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise&diff=834412708&oldid=834335527 <small>(notified)</small>]

;Confirmation that other steps in [[Wikipedia:dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] have been tried
* Attempt on talk page [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise&diff=834267915&oldid=833124978&diffmode=source]
* Discussion at ANI: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=834525291#Taking_a_position_on_whether_Billy_Graham's_death_was_a_%22profound_loss%22 <small>(permalink)</small>]
* Issue which FPaS thought worthy of enforcing his opinion about was solved by good will discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity/Outreach/April 2018]]. No tool use, no edit war, no participation by FPaS.

=== Statement by Jbhunley ===
{{ArbCom evidence length header|word=947|dLimit=123456789}}

• <small>(Previously requested extension [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests&diff=834452649&oldid=834149581 here]. Please see diff for details. Thank you. — Initial statement now 512 words. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&oldid=834525550#Statement_by_Jbhunley (Permalink original])//[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&oldid=835190970 (Permalink previous version)]</small>

'''{{red|Rewritten for clarity and to address length}}'''

§ [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&diff=834462768&oldid=834462381 Prefatory statement] <small>(Comment from old version)</small>

This event is, in the scheme of things, pretty insignificant. Its very insignificance lends it clarity though; there are no long running feuds, no reams of diffs, no accusations of cabals or history of questionably questionable behavior to pick apart. There is one definite action by a single person that broke a simple bright line rule. ''Administrators do not use their tools to enforce their own views.''

This material clearly illustrates FPaS substituting their personal view point that there is a policy issue in re the newsletter's use of the phrase ''"profound loss"'' for the community consensus that it is a ''content dispute''. He then proceeds to edit war his preferred version of the text while threatening to protect the page if the other editor does not accept his version. When the other editor reverts FPaS's edit FPaS protects the page 'winning' the edit war and protecting his viewpoint while using his counter-community consensus view that the wording is an administrator-enforceable policy violation to justify his INVOLVED action.

# ANI thread on 'profound loss' closed as ''"Content dispute"'' - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=834122924 01:49 Apr 04] — <small>([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=834215171#Taking_a_position_on_whether_Billy_Graham_was_a_%34profound_loss%34_to_Wikipedia. Permalink to closed discussion])</small>
# FPaS first edit to the newsletter was at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834203307&oldid=834143873 13:31 Apr 04]
#:Edit summary:<small>((actually, NPOV does apply to wikiprojects. Do not use this newsletter to promote your personal opinions on things.))</small>
#::Note: {{red|No claim at this time that this is an administrative issue or reason to assume it is so because ANI said it was a ''content dispute''.}}
#::The claim that NPOV applies is counter guidelines on WikiProjects and Project namespace in general
#:::• [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide#What is a WikiProject?]] — <small>{{tq|"The pages of a WikiProject… <u>act as a forum</u> where issues of interest to the editors of a subject may be discussed."}}<sup>(emp mine)</sup></small>
#:::• [[Wikipedia:Project namespace#Content]] — <small>({{tq|"Pages within the "Project namespace … do not generally need to conform to the same content … standards as articles"}})</small>
#::It is also counter to:
#:::• Specific longstanding consensus on newsletters: <small> ({{tq|"The Signpost … allows … editorializing, narrative, original research"}}<sup>[[WP:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom/Content guidance#Statement of purpose|(Signpost purpose)]]</sup>)</small>
#:::• Apples-to-apples comparison from [[Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/February 18 to 24, 2018]] <small>({{tq|"Christianity lost one on its bastions this week, and curious Wikipedians journeyed to parse the page of the evangelist …"}} )</small>
# FPaS re-opens thread, asserting the counter-consensus view the issue is a policy matter. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=834215171&oldid=834214589&title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diffmode=source 14:46 Apr 04]
# -Reverted to original. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834241584&oldid=834203307 17:35 Apr 04]
# FPaS reverts and threatens to protect page claiming ''policy issue'' [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834253159&oldid=834241584 18:47 Apr 04]
#:<small>Edit summary:</small> <small>((rv, no. This is an administrative measure, don't force me to protect the page.))</small>
# -Reverted to original [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834260592&oldid=834253159 19:29 Apr 04]
# FPaS reverts again. Clearly an edit war is in progress. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834261152&oldid=834260592 19:32 Apr 04]
# and immediately protects page 'winning' the edit war. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834261330&oldid=834261152 19:32 Apr 04]
#:<small>Edit summary: (persistent attempts at POV spamming) </small>

There are not many bright lines on Wikipedia but using the bit to win an argument is one; it is ''never'' acceptable and can not be shown, by the Arbitration Committee, to be acceptable. With the addition of evidence that ANI had already determined the matter was a ''content dispute'' any conceivable justification for FPaS not violating INVOLVED is gone. This matter ''does'' rise to the level of a desysop.

§ [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&diff=835304889&oldid=835304669 Administrators do a tough.] <small>(Comment from old version)</small>

====Replies to arbitrators====
* {{ping|Newyorkbrad}} I have no objection to this being disposed by motion. I agree that a lengthy case would be of no benefit, particularly since there are no issues not already addressed by policy, guideline or longstanding consensus. There is a fundamental flaw in our dispute management system which we are all all to aware of; there is no way to substantively address mid-tier misbehavior by administrators. {{pb}} I would, however, like to draw your attention to what I see as a weakness in your reasoning. Specifically your conclusion {{tq|"FPaS's error did not lie in taking a self-interested or "involved" action, because in his mind his entire role was as an administrator enforcing policy."}}. The mere assertion of acting in an administrative capacity can not be a shield against INVOLVED. I assert there must be an actual ''not'' a putative policy violation to invoke exemption. Administrators are given tremendous leeway in their actions ''and'' an assumption of good faith. To ''also'' say they can assume and assert an incorrect policy to shield their actions creates an untenable [[moral hazard]] while raising the bar to show wrongdoing to a practically unreachable level. I do not find it at all unreasonable for administrators know the limits of the policy they are enforcing before being allowed to use it as a shield against INVOLVED. {{pb}} In this specific case, as part of my 'attempted resolution' I specifically requested FPaS to cite the written policy/guideline which they were relying on. They declined to do so and ''have continued to fail to do so''. Basic administrator accountability ''requires'' FPaS explain their reasoning. Even if you completely disagree with my reasoning above, it is not reasonable to give them a pass based on an asserted policy violation based on reasoning they have failed to either articulate or support.
* {{ping|BU Rob13}} When I opened this request I recognized that my view of how egregious a single but blatant incident of tool misuse was differs from the community's in general <small>(See ''§Administrators do a tough job'' above)</small>. The reason why I specifically decided to assert that the conduct reached the level of a desysop in my re-write is that it was not a ''single'' error. {{pb}} All of this starts with ''a community consensus at ANI that the matter is a content dispute''. This is key because a single administrator can not overrule, by fiat, an ANI consensus. So, either FPaS knew of the ANI thread and followed it to the newsletter or they came upon it for the first time by independent coincidence. In either case they edit claiming NPOV violation ''giving no indication it is and admin action''. There is no definite way to know if they intended this as an administrative action or not but so far nothing improper has occurred. In any case, an hour or so later FPaS shows up at the ANI thread, disagrees with the close and re-opens it. {{pb}}It is this last act, the re-opening of the thread, which gives us something we so rarely have — we know 'what FPaS knew and when they knew it'. At this point FPaS ''knows with absolute certainty that the community sees this as a content dispute''. After FPaS's initial edit to the newsletter is reverted FPaS ''ignores consensus'' on an ANI thread ''they'' had re-opened <small>(so there is no 'out' by claiming consensus was in flux)</small> and reinstates their edit ''now claiming administrative action and threatening to use page protection''. There is no way to see this as anything other than contempt for consensus and FPaS asserting their view over that of the community's. If they had protected the page at this point it would have still been INVOLVED but it would have been a pretty minor thing, probably not even worth an AN complaint if they relented quickly. {{pb}} FPaS's edit is then reverted. Now, they already know that prior to their dispute of the ANI close the community saw this as a content matter and ''we all know to take edit wars to the talk page or an admin board for our colleagues to opine''. So had a choice. They could do the right thing — ''discuss'', or the wrong thing — revert and continue the edit war. FPaS made not only the ''wrong'' choice and continued the edit war ''they used page protection to win it''. {{pb}}So, we are not talking about a single, in the heat of the moment, poor choice. There were several places where FPaS could have made the right or even a less bad choice. Instead FPaS made a series of choices which show utter disregard for the norms which make Wikipedia a ''collaborative'' project. FPaS unquestionably knew that the community, via the ANI thread, had a different opinion on the matter than they did but their actions show ''they just did not care''. FPaS knows that you discuss contested edits but their actions show they ''thought their opinion was the only one that mattered''. Neither of those things are a reason to loose the mop but ''FPaS used their tools to overrule consensus'' by winning an edit war ''which they started'' on a page they had never edited before. We simply can not have administrators who think they have the right to use their tools to disregard community consensus and bypass the norms of collaborative editing. ''That'' is why this issue should result in a desysop, not because it was a one-off bad call — we all make those, say 'ooppss… sorry' and move on. FPaS showed utter contempt for the collective processes and norms which make Wikipedia function and in doing so showed they can not be trusted not to use their advanced permissions when they get into a disagreement. {{pb}}'Easy come-easy go' has been bullshit since before I started editing here and we as a community rightly tend to read admin actions in the best possible light — hell NYB even said FPaS's behavior was OK because they ''thought'' what they were doing is OK. Well, I believe I have made a pretty good argument that either FPaS ''knew'' what they were doing was wrong or that they are completely out of touch with Wikipedia's norms of consensus and collaborative editing. In either case they ''will'' do something like this again if they continue to be an administrator. At the very least, I implore all of you, if you do not make this the last time insure through your decision that the next time will be the ''last'' time.


*{{ping|Opabinia regalis}} <s>So, you are unable to justify FPaS's actions but you agree with them so ''you attack me for bringing the case??!!'' I would say words fail me but, after my prodigious writing here I doubt anyone would believe me. I can quite easily come up with the words to describe my contempt both for your statement ''and'', because you attack me from behind the impenetrable shield of being both an administrator and an arbitrator in this case, {{strikethrough|for you personally}}. <small>( <u>Since I like my clean block log, I guess I can feel it but I probably should not directly state it.</u>)</small></s> {{pb}}<small>({{ping|Opabinia regalis}} Struck above. It was overly personal. Sorry. [[User:Jbhunley|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:135%;color:#886600">Jbh</span>]][[User_talk:Jbhunley|<span style="color: #00888F"><sup> Talk</sup></span>]] 11:53, 14 April 2018 (UTC))</small>{{pb}} To be clear, a ''"principled stand"'' is something one makes when one has neither facts nor right <small>(correctness)</small> on one's side. I have clearly established the facts, which you do not seem to dispute, and the rules of Wikipedia and the norms of the community clearly establish the right that administrators have no special editorial status nor may they use their tools to enforce their editorial opinion. If you disagree with those or if, like most, you feel a one-off transgression, no matter how egregious, does not rise to a desysop that is fine and we can disagree in good faith. {{pb}} On the other hand. if on further reflection you still think it is proper for you, a sitting arbitrator, to attack me by saying — {{tq|"nothing makes me less persuaded of an argument than citing alleged "bright line" violations of whatever; raising a stink over an admittedly insignificant issue because you think there are Important Principles at stake is in other contexts known as WP:POINT"}} — when I bring a case of obvious administrator misconduct to ''the only forum on Wikipedia where administrator conduct can be addressed'' then … Then, if I were one for [[WP:POINT|pointy]] 'principled stands' over minor things, I would apply my creativity to crafting a case request against a sitting arbitrator. Since, regardless of your assertion to the contrary, I am neither that kind of person nor that kind of editor I will instead leave you with a single word upon which you may reflect — ''despicable''.


*'''Additional''' I looked up the LTA who has been poking their head into this and I found an earlier case wherein FPaS made what could be considered rash administrative decisions and ''like in this case'' evidently failed to communicate. In that case failing to explain why FPaS blocked them. In the final admonishment ArbCom warned them that further issues could result in desysop. <small>([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=701797478#Motion:_Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise_case_request.2C_integrated_version link to decision])</small>. I am not aware of the whole story behind this but a previous admonishment, a couple of years ago, concerns me. At the very least I believe that this should have some bearing on the matter of whether they will repeat questionable administrative action. In short, barring something extreme, I would consider ''this'' to have been their 'second bite of the apple'. {{pb}} I purposely did not go digging around in FPaS's background to look for a ''"pattern"'' but I find it more than a bit disingenuous of the Committee to be treating this as a one-off when they are, or should be, aware of previously raised issues with FPaS's conduct as an administrator.
*:So, from what I can tell of that case the same LTA who has been popping up all over the place on this case posted some comments on two third party's talk pages. FPaS removed the comments from those editors' talk pages, the editors restored the material and then FPaS, ''without communication or explanation'' blocked them for 'poxing for a banned editor'. The blocks were so bad they were overturned pretty much immediately, evidently with at least one good faith accusation that the blocks violated INVOLVED. Since everything started from an LTA who had been harassing FPaS and the blocks were overturned ArbCom decided it was not worth a case and settled it with a motion which included an admonishment for FPaS behavior as an admin <small>(why else note the possibility of a desysop)</small>. So, evidently FPaS can not keep their hands off their mop when they become upset. I would say you have your pattern.


*'''Copied from talk per NYB''' [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests&diff=835925412&oldid=835924875&diffmode=source] {{ping|Newyorkbrad}} I really do not see why you are trying to dismiss this as some policy disagreement. It is not. It is an issue of ''behavior''. It is a question of whether FPaS can keep their hands off their mop when they are emotional. I was OK (sort of) with AbrCom minimizing the issues I brought up as a one-off. Well, that whole theory is bullshit. FPaS, I now see, was admonished for intemperate admin actions which involved, bad, hot headed blocks that were arguably INVOLVED (I say argueably because, well, Arbcom decided to minimize the behavior and deal with it by motion so...). So, you have a pattern of poor admin behavior. ''Both'' cased raise questions of INVOLVED - one re blocks and one re page protection. Is an INVOLVED deletion needed as well to show misbehavior in ''all'' major administrative realms? <p> When I opened this I said I was not going to dig into FPaS's prior acts. The abuse was clear and I saw no reason to go hunting for dirt. Now, without digging I find a prior ''on point'' case. Will ArbCom now deal with the issue or do you need ''more'' evidence of a pattern of misbehavior?
: <small>(Note: If the issue addressed in my other comment comes up here it can be copied as well.)</small>
<small>(Based on NYB's comments I will not edit my section further for length without a specific request from or on behalf of an arbitrator.)</small>

====Comments re motion====
*{{ping|BU Rob13}} Thank you for getting the ball rolling. I have two comments:
*# Admonishing FPaS only for edit warring misses the point. Many people edit war. The problem was ''protecting the page <u>after</u> edit warring''. I firmly feel this needs to be directly addressed by the committee.
*# I believe ''"generally"'' should be struck. I acknowledge there are times when it may be necessary to do this but it should be so rare and so clear that the act should be able to stand up as an IAR action. ''"Generally"'' is, in my mind, too permissive and does not adequately represent how wrong INVOLVED actions are. I have seen several actions come up here and at ANI where more care re INVOLVED should have been exercised. It is a problem and, from what I see, it hurts the morale of 'regular' editors. ArbCom needs to be firm.
*{{ping|BU Rob13}} I see where you are coming from. I, of course, strongly disagree. I do, however, want to explicitly make sure that you have considered that this is the ''second'' time FPaS has been brought to ArbCom with legitimate complaints about misuse of their tools when they are INVOLVED. The last time was handled by motion too and contained warning that further problems could result in a desysop. {{pb}}I think the that they self reverted, after considerable obstinacy and with no acknowledgement they had acted improperly, might be a consideration if this were the ''first'' time but it is not. They suffered no consequences for making two arguably involved blocks and, like now, showed no indication that their actions were improper or even questionable. At this point I see this result as an effective endorsement of FPaS's behavior which will do ''absolutely nothing'' to prevent recurrence.

— [[User:Jbhunley|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:135%;color:#886600">Jbh</span>]][[User_talk:Jbhunley|<span style="color: #00888F"><sup> Talk</sup></span>]] — 19:30, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
* Total waste of time. Unwatching before I get blocked for expressing my opinion of this travesty.
* Ping me if and only if my further attention is ''required''.
* Clerks do not give me further notices. I do like editing here and I doubt I would be able to hold my tongue.
* [[User:Jbhunley|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:135%;color:#886600">Jbh</span>]][[User_talk:Jbhunley|<span style="color: #00888F"><sup> Talk</sup></span>]] 02:55, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Future Perfect at Sunrise ===

I stand by every word I said yesterday on the noticeboard and I'm not planning to engage in any further discussion here. [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]] [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise|☼]] 19:28, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by SarekOfVulcan ===
I think this is a reasonable request, but I don't think it needs a case. I'm just posting to call attention to an inconsistency <s>above</s>in the {{diff|Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case|835093344|835077472|original filing}} that sheds light on why a case isn't necessary.
*{{tq|The page was unprotected after about an hour and the issue of ''"profound loss"'' was addressed after a bit of discussion on talk by changing it to ''"profound loss {{underline|by many}}"''. To me the simplicity and ease of finding a solution, and FPasS not bothering to participate in that process, highlights the impropriety of FPaS's actions.}}
In other words, FPaS acted administratively, and then other people resolved the content issue in a different way. While it's possible FPaS shouldn't have acted as he did, his action wasn't a case of "winning the dispute".--[[User talk:SarekOfVulcan|<span class="gfSarekSig">SarekOfVulcan (talk)</span>]] 16:16, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Swarm ===
To simplify what I said at AN, advocacy of certain viewpoints or the expression of personal opinion on talk pages is explicitly prohibited as a [[WP:NOTFORUM|matter of policy]]. Removal of such content is explicitly allowed by the [[WP:TPO|talk page guidelines]]. Fully-protecting as a necessary measure to enforce the talk page guidelines should not be seen as a breach of [[WP:INVOLVED]], as FPaS was acting in an uninvolved administrative capacity the entire time. The fact that he was repeatedly reverted by a disruptive editor and had to employ a full protection does not change that fact, or at least it shouldn't. [[User:Swarm|<span style='color:black;text-shadow: 0.0em 0.0em 0.9em black'><big>'''S'''</big><small>'''''warm'''''</small></span>]] [[User talk:Swarm|<span style='color:black;text-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em red'>♠</span>]] 17:14, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
*To counter {{u|NeilN}}'s point, just because something is not strictly enforced does not mean such enforcement is abusive. The merits of FPaS's judgment call are debatable, and I am not even attempting to engage in that debate. I'm simply pointing out that what they did is technically not in breach of any policies and thus should be classified as discretionary rather than abusive. [[User:Swarm|<span style='color:black;text-shadow: 0.0em 0.0em 0.9em black'><big>'''S'''</big><small>'''''warm'''''</small></span>]] [[User talk:Swarm|<span style='color:black;text-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em red'>♠</span>]] 19:16, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
*{{yo|The ed17}} Surely: "Some examples of appropriately editing others' comments:
**... '''Removing prohibited material''' such as ... '''[[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of promotion|anti-promotional]] policies'''" (emphasis mine, but direct quote from [[WP:TPO]]. Removal of advocacy or expression of personal opinion is allowed. Disappointed to see you questioning straightforward policy). I am certainly not framing this as a BLP issue. However, '''removing personal opinion is allowed by policy'''. [[User:Swarm|<span style='color:black;text-shadow: 0.0em 0.0em 0.9em black'><big>'''S'''</big><small>'''''warm'''''</small></span>]] [[User talk:Swarm|<span style='color:black;text-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em red'>♠</span>]] 03:58, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
*{{yo|The ed17}} I'm not "interpreting" anything. I'm simply pointing out that the relevant policy is unambiguous. Removal of personal opinion is explicitly allowed by the talk page guidelines. [[User:Swarm|<span style='color:black;text-shadow: 0.0em 0.0em 0.9em black'><big>'''S'''</big><small>'''''warm'''''</small></span>]] [[User talk:Swarm|<span style='color:black;text-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em red'>♠</span>]] 04:46, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by kelapstick ===
I don't see this as an abuse of tools, or worthy of a case, but that naturally isn't for me to decide anymore. My belief is (and I don't want to put words in FPaS's mouth), that they saw the mass posting of the message as against Wikipedia policy (whether it is or is not against policy is neither here nor there as far as this case request goes, it was at the time their interpretation), and the protection was to prevent changing the newsletter back to a state in which they believed it would be against policy, and distributing it. Thus making the protection a preventative administrative action, ''not'' protecting the page to get a leg up in a dispute. While best practice would be for FPaS to revert and then request protection, that didn't happen. And that often doesn't happen with protection (have you seen how long RFPP requests can take?). Noting that at the ANI discussion I (and other admins) endorsed the protection (for various reasons to be sure), and I have since re-protected the page to prevent edit warring while discussion is ongoing on the talk page. --[[User:kelapstick|kelapstick]]<sup>([[User talk:Kelapstick#top|bainuu]]) </sup> 17:18, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Beyond My Ken ===
I have had disputes with FPaS in the past, and I have sympathy for JBH's complaint, but I do want to point out, in all fairness, that while NeilN took FPaS to task for the protection, a number of other admins I esteem -- such as Bbb23 and JzG -- spoke in support of it. Personally, as a non-admin, I disagreed, but it should be mentioned that FPaS did not stand alone within the admin corps. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 17:59, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
:FPaS: It's not your '''''words''''' that are in question here, but your '''''action'''''. The division of opinion in the admin corps is an indication that the "any reasonable administrator would have probably come to the same conclusion" clause is not an effective explanation (none of the admins so far mentioned in this discussion on either side of the question can be called "unreasonable"), and, in any case, that clause is for "straightforward cases (e.g., blatant vandalism)", which the question of whether Wikipedia resources in Projectspace should be used to express opinions is clearly '''''not'''''. That's an unsettled '''''policy''''' question, and not in any way comparable to "blatant vandalism". No, once you had expressed your personal views on the policy question via your edits, you were clearly disallowed from using your bit in relation to that discussion, and '''''even if you believed you weren't''''', discretion should have told you to approach another admin with a request for protection instead of doing it yourself. That's really the only issue here (despite some of the hand-waving above dismissing it) not whether protection was '''''justified''''', but whether '''''you''''' were the proper person to levy it. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 20:28, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
::On the question of whether this warrants a case, I would initially have said no, and agreed that a trout (i.e. light admonishment) was sufficient, but I am troubled by FPaS's decision to stand mute and not engage with the very real concerns of numerous high-profile admins and editors. It may well be that if FPaS doesn't reconsider that stance, that a case might be necessary, but I would prefer that he would choose, instead, to engage in discussion. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 20:52, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
:::One final thing. I mentioned above that I have had disputes with FPaS in the past. That was quite a long time ago, and in the meantime I have, on occasion, supported FPaS in various discussions. I do not hold any kind of grudge against him. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 20:57, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Writ Keeper ===
Unlike some of the others above, I ''do'' find this to be a breach of INVOLVED. It reminds me of [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kww_and_The_Rambling_Man|the Kww case]] I filed on a smaller scale. I would certainly say that FPaS's removal of the disputed language was within policy--I certainly agree with it--per all of the guidelines people have quoted above. But what I find troubling is, when FPaS [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834253159&oldid=834241584 ''re''-reverted] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834261152&oldid=834260592 twice], it became an edit war. There's no exemption for "admin actions" in the edit-warring policy, nor are there any exemptions for TPG or any other relevant policy, BLP certainly doesn't apply here, {{tq|An editor who '''repeatedly restores his or her preferred version''' is edit warring, '''regardless of whether their edits were justifiable''': "But my edits were right, so it wasn't edit warring" is no defense}} (from the policy [[Wikipedia:Edit warring]], epmhasis mine), etc. As I argued in the Kww case, being involved in an edit war, in addition to itself being bad, should automatically make one INVOLVED with respect to further admin actions (common sense); as such, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834261330&oldid=834261152 the protection at the end of the edit war] was an INVOLVED act. Bad times.

All that said, FPaS [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834272333&oldid=834261330 eventually backed down], even if they didn't agree with the policy interpretations, and that was exactly the kind of thing missing from the Kww case that made me file it. It's also a much smaller molehill, without any of the secondary issues that case dealt with. Ultimately I don't know whether it's worth a case or not; I don't think FPaS is blameless here and ideally there would be some official record of that, but I don't know that anything more than that is indicated here, and I don't know that that alone is worth a case. [[User:Writ Keeper|Writ&nbsp;Keeper]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Writ Keeper|&#9863;]][[Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper|&#9812;]] 18:25, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by SoWhy ===
FPaS violated [[WP:INVOLVED]] by protecting a page he edited before and his behavior before and after the protection was less than what the community expects from its admins. That much is clear. Whether that's enough to warrant a case, I'm not so sure. I think the case request would be stronger if there was a pattern of such behavior and not just a single incident. Basically, I agree with {{u|Writ Keeper}}. Regards [[User:SoWhy|<b style="color:#7A2F2F; font-variant:small-caps">So</b>]][[User talk:SoWhy|<b style="color:#474F84; font-variant:small-caps">Why</b>]] 18:29, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

:{{re|Innisfree987}} Not what I meant. I meant that the case request would be stronger if a pattern could be demonstrated. I did not say that no such pattern exists. Regards [[User:SoWhy|<b style="color:#7A2F2F; font-variant:small-caps">So</b>]][[User talk:SoWhy|<b style="color:#474F84; font-variant:small-caps">Why</b>]] 07:07, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

'''Addendum:''' FPaS [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Future+Perfect+at+Sunrise&page=Wikipedia+talk%3AArbitration%2FRequests&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&subtype= rev'deleted] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests&type=revision&diff=834533676&oldid=834509016&unhide=1 this comment] (admin-only) by an IP on the talk page per [[WP:RD3]]. Regardless of whether RD3 really applies to a comment that criticizes FPaS in strong words but still is an attempt to participate in this case, I find this action ''itself'' deeply troubling. Apparently FPaS does not realize that comments ''in an ArbCom request about him misusing the tools'' is not the right place for ''him'' to act in any administrative capacity. Whatever the reason for this request was, this has been the second [[WP:INVOLVED]] violation in less than two days... Regards [[User:SoWhy|<b style="color:#7A2F2F; font-variant:small-caps">So</b>]][[User talk:SoWhy|<b style="color:#474F84; font-variant:small-caps">Why</b>]] 07:22, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by NeilN ===
Ill-advised protection but does not warrant a case if Arbcom makes it clear the protection by FPaS ''was'' ill-advised. Two points:
* NPOV is policy but admins reverting ''and'' protecting to enforce their version of NPOV is deeply unsettling.
* [[User:Swarm|Swarm's]] post above may outline a justification for FPaS' protect but it does not outline a ''good'' justification. There were no derogatory BLP issues involved - it was one sentence in a newsletter. Every time someone famous dies there's probably some discussion happening on user talk pages containing personal reflections about the subject and how much they meant to their field (e.g., Stephen Hawking). An admin removing such discussions and threatening to block/protect would probably be told to get lost. --[[User:NeilN|<b style="color:navy">Neil<span style="color:red">N</span></b>]] <sup>[[User talk:NeilN|<i style="color:blue">talk to me</i>]]</sup> 18:57, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

To the arbs just voting decline, it would be helpful to know if you are endorsing FPaS' actions or think the situation does not merit a motion/case. --[[User:NeilN|<b style="color:navy">Neil<span style="color:red">N</span></b>]] <sup>[[User talk:NeilN|<i style="color:blue">talk to me</i>]]</sup> 04:34, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by GreenMeansGo ===
What is disturbing about this whole issue is not that an admin had a momentary lapse in judgement, but that it was so obviously a lapse in judgement, and that so many experienced admins showed up at ANI, and then here, to defend it. For the record:
* If you have a dispute over content, that's a content dispute.
* If you wage a war against someone to revert to your preferred version of a page, that's an edit war.
* NPOV is a content policy. It is one of the policies that {{tq|jointly determine the type and quality of material that is acceptable in Wikipedia articles}}. NPOV does not apply to WikiProject newsletters. Here's a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News/March 2018/Book reviews|book review]] in ''The Bugle''. That's opinion. It's not subject to NPOV.
* If you engage in an edit war over a content dispute, you are involved.
* If you are involved, then you shouldn't take administrative action.
These are points I expect to explain to new editors at the Teahouse. Not to experienced administrators at ANI or Arbcom.

Having said that, I would have brought this case yesterday if FPaS hadn't reversed course. They did. So I didn't, because the best that's going to come out of it is an admonishment I suppose. Whether an admonishment is needed to remind some of our most experienced administrators about our most basic policies might however be up for debate. [[User:GreenMeansGo|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color:#07CB4B">G</span><span style="color:#449351">M</span><span style="color:#35683d">G</span></span>]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo#top|<sup style="color:#000;font-family:Impact">talk</sup>]] 19:06, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Ian.thomson|Ian]], the passage you reference is referring to something like vandalism. If yours was a valid interpretation of the policy, any admin could edit war on any article, and then protect it under the rationale that any admin would protect a page where there is an ongoing edit war, especially one where one side equally involved in the edit war was an admin, and full protection prevents admins from making unilateral changes as much as it does anyone else. That's silly, and nowhere in the neighborhood of anything the community has or would endorse. [[User:GreenMeansGo|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color:#07CB4B">G</span><span style="color:#449351">M</span><span style="color:#35683d">G</span></span>]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo#top|<sup style="color:#000;font-family:Impact">talk</sup>]] 20:36, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
::{{yo|Newyorkbrad}} Regarding {{tq|in his mind his entire role...}}, the question is not whether he was correct "in his mind"; it's is whether what was in his mind was remotely in accordance with policy. Speficially:
::*Is NPOV an exception to [[WP:EW]]? Unambiguously no, and responsible for probably most blocks at ANEW.
::*Is edit warring an administrative action? Exactly no. It is [[WP:TOOLMISUSE|a content dispute in which they are a party]], and as such, specifically pointed out in policy as abuse.
::There is no exception in policy that if you feel strongly enough about a dispute (or simply [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=834264509&oldid=834264442&diffmode=source choose to assume bad faith]), you are somehow exempted from EW or INVOLVED. The ''reason these policies exist'' is for situations where [[Wikipedia:Edit_warring#What_to_do_if_you_see_edit-warring_behavior|disagreement becomes apparent]] and administrators [[WP:INVOLVED|have strong feelings about]] it. What was "in his mind" is not just unsupported by policy; it is ''exactly and intentionally contradicted by it''. [[User:GreenMeansGo|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color:#07CB4B">G</span><span style="color:#449351">M</span><span style="color:#35683d">G</span></span>]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo#top|<sup style="color:#000;font-family:Impact">talk</sup>]] 12:44, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
::::I think a motion is the most anyone is looking for here, but declining even a motion looks an awful lot like endorsement. [[User:GreenMeansGo|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color:#07CB4B">G</span><span style="color:#449351">M</span><span style="color:#35683d">G</span></span>]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo#top|<sup style="color:#000;font-family:Impact">talk</sup>]] 15:22, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::Yeah...sorry {{yo|Opabinia regalis}}, but if you don't think that abuse of administrator tools is an important principle, then you probably shouldn't be sitting on the Arbitration Committee. Raising a stink may, in certain contexts, be known as [[WP:POINT]]. Raising a stink at ArbCom over abuse of the tools to win an edit war is generally known as...''the explicit remit of ArbCom''. If you don't want to deal with the community's "insignificant issues" then don't stand or the only body specifically charged with issuing [[Wikipedia:Administrators#Arbitration_Committee_review|warnings, admonishments, restrictions, and removal of administrator privileges]], and as a member of that body, your response comes off as flippant and dismissive. [[User:GreenMeansGo|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color:#07CB4B">G</span><span style="color:#449351">M</span><span style="color:#35683d">G</span></span>]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo#top|<sup style="color:#000;font-family:Impact">talk</sup>]]
::::::{{tq|self reverted, after considerable obstinacy and with no acknowledgement they had acted improperly}} ... {{tq|showed no indication that their actions were improper or even questionable}} I tried to write something better, but that sums up my feelings pretty well I think.
::::::Overall I suppose I feel like it's a bit of a diluted response. Why do we feel the need to remind administrators in the abstract not to act in a way that violates INVOLVED, if the administrator in this case did not act in a way that violated INVOLVED? Personally, I would like to just see a straight up or down for something like {{tq|FPaS is admonished for edit warring, and using administrator access to intervene in a content dispute in which they were personally involved and actively engaged in an edit war.}}...and maybe for good measure...{{tq|Administrators are reminded that acting in a way that gives even the appearance of personal involvement or impropriety, acts to degrade community trust in the admin corps and the project.}}
::::::Honestly, I'd like to see some kind of motion like that discussed even if it fails. It's certainly a link I will be saving for the next election. I realize that ArbCom and common sense aren't always easy bedfellows. So maybe it's healthy to test where exactly in that relationship we are at the moment. It would at the very least empower the community to make a more informed decision about who represents them at the highest level. [[User:GreenMeansGo|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color:#07CB4B">G</span><span style="color:#449351">M</span><span style="color:#35683d">G</span></span>]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo#top|<sup style="color:#000;font-family:Impact">talk</sup>]] 15:06, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Ian.thomson ===
Before I became involved in the discussion, the possibility that page protection would be needed had occurred to me and I would have thanked an uninvolved admin for locking the page. I do think that was a bad idea for FPaS to lock the page after his reverts there, but he unlocked the page shortly after, an edit war started back up, and {{u|kelapstick}} had to lock the page again. There's no pretending that the page wasn't going to end up protected due to the content dispute at some point, the only issue would be who did it. If any other admin had done it, it would be a total non-issue and any report filed against that admin would be summarily dismissed. That's why there's no case against kelapstick.

WP:INVOLVED notes that involved actions are excused if {{tq|any reasonable administrator would have probably come to the same conclusion}}. Again, the page would have been and was locked by another admin to due to the content dispute. The only thing I can see being necessary is maybe a trout for FPaS, [[Wikipedia:Sanctions against editors should not be punitive|though one that's not fresh is more punitive than educational]]. [[User:Ian.thomson|Ian.thomson]] ([[User talk:Ian.thomson|talk]]) 19:07, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Natureium ===
I am also concerned about this blatant abuse of power by an administrator, and that multiple other admins stated that in their opinion, he hadn't done anything wrong. Also notable is that when a similar situation was brought up in the past ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Top_25_Report/Archive_5#Blatant_leftist_POV]), the opinions on policies outside of mainspace were very different. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 19:24, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Innisfree987 ===
Mainly here to note I too thought the underlying issue was a clear policy violation and so saw admin intervention to hold the line on policy as legitimate, even as eventually handing off also seemed well-advised given contention. I now understand (thanks to their ever-clear explication) why Jbhunley saw it differently, and so their choice to come here feels reasonable, but I do continue to think reasonable people could disagree in good faith, rather than it being so obvious that this course of action is {{tq|shocking to the conscience}} <small>(removed from Jbh's statement in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AArbitration%2FRequests&type=revision&diff=835199047&oldid=835198558 edit for length]; viewable [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&oldid=835190970 here])</small> of WP. As such I tend to think the appropriate outcome is a general reminder of the prudence of caution, and that that existence of this thread probably makes that point adequately, especially <s>in light of SoWhy's point that</s><small>(struck as SoWhy apparently disagrees with this characterization)</small> as this appears to be an isolated incident rather than a pattern. [[User:Innisfree987|Innisfree987]] ([[User talk:Innisfree987|talk]]) 20:00, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

===Statement by Davey2010===

Future Perfect at Sunrise shouldn't of protected the newsletter - they should've asked another admin to do the honours, In some ways I feel their actions were INVOLVED / HEAVY HANDED and in others I feel they only protected the newsletter to try and stop the edit warring but yeah they should've asked another admin, –[[User:Davey2010|<span style="color: blue;">'''Davey'''</span><span style="color: orange;">'''2010'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Davey2010|<span style="color: navy;">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup> 20:34, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

===Statement by Alanscottwalker===
I think the underlying circumstances are rather tempest/teapot, and at least from what I have read in the AN/I and the above statements deserves no real sanction against anyone (reminders, maybe). However, I do think the committee could perhaps answer the issues posed by FPaS rather categorical assertion in the ANI [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=834215171&oldid=834214589&diffmode=source]:

{{quote|Sorry for reopening this, but unlike some commentators above I find that jps' complaint has merit. Also, I don't see there's a legitimate content discussion to be had here; it's a straightforward matter of enforcing policy. To that end, I have removed the offending bit from the newsletter draft, and I'm fully prepared to use admin tools if necessary to keep it out. [¶] "The death of XY was a huge loss", where XY is a controversial political/religious figure, is a contentious political statement of opinion. A WikiProject newsletter is a means of mass-crossposting messages across user talk pages. We do not use mass postings on user talkpages to promote contentious ideological messages. It's immaterial whether it's done by an individual user via mass copying, or through the vehicle of a project newsletter. It's also immaterial whether the opinion is attributed to the wikiproject as a whole or to an individual author's byline. It's even immaterial whether the message actually matches a consensus opinion of the wikiproject's membership, or of the majority of the intended recipients. Political messages of opinion unrelated to our common goal of writing an encyclopedia are simply a no-go, period.}}

So, I would limit any Arbitration case to just breaking down that quote: 1) is any or all of FPaS statement policy compliant (in whole or in part), and 2) is any or all of it supported by the underlying facts, here. -- [[User:Alanscottwalker|Alanscottwalker]] ([[User talk:Alanscottwalker|talk]]) 21:22, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

:Certainly no-one is asking the committee to formulate 'guidelines' on newsletters, but per the statement by FPaS, above, there is ''already'' policy here, that must be enforced. As we see, in this case - and the statements on this page - this is centrally a conduct issue (it's a conduct issue that editor's can or can't say certain things in certain places), and it impacts 1) multiple past and future Wikipedian's statements, 2) editor conduct, and 3) administrator actions across the Wikipedia Project: from the Signpost, to the Top25, to talk pages, to . . . . [[User:Alanscottwalker|Alanscottwalker]] ([[User talk:Alanscottwalker|talk]]) 14:04, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:{{Ping|User:Newyorkbrad}}: To clarify matters in adressing the issues raised, would you directly address this question: Do these diffs of FPaS edits, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=next&oldid=834143873], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Christianity%2FOutreach%2FApril_2018&type=revision&diff=834253159&oldid=834241584], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=next&oldid=834260592] constitute participation in a [[WP:EDITWAR]] by FPaS? Thanks. [[User:Alanscottwalker|Alanscottwalker]] ([[User talk:Alanscottwalker|talk]]) 00:15, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

{{Ping|User:KrakatoaKatie}}, {{Ping|Alex Shih}}: You may wish to work together to make a motion. If this was Edit Warring over NPOV, English Wikipedia just cannot endorse admins doing that. -- [[User:Alanscottwalker|Alanscottwalker]] ([[User talk:Alanscottwalker|talk]]) 14:06, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

{{Ping|User:Opabinia regalis}}: This is the wrong forum for opinions on content. This committee has no jurisdiction over content, the committee's concern is process and conduct. We are here in this forum to talk editor conduct and dispute resolution. Edit wars and page protection are matters of process and conduct ('the how', of how disputes are settled) - so, your apparent criticism of people here addressing conduct and process is entirely misplaced. It was explicitly made a matter of process and conduct by the conduct of FPaS. To actually address merits arguments properly - proper process and conduct is required - that's the entire reason for existence of dispute resolution procedure. -- [[User:Alanscottwalker|Alanscottwalker]] ([[User talk:Alanscottwalker|talk]]) 10:42, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

{{Ping|User:Opabinia regalis}} Come on, now. No one was even trying to solve the dispute over FPaS conduct on the talk page, (not the least because it is explicitly not the place to do so) so obviously that close did not and could not address anything, here. [[User:Alanscottwalker|Alanscottwalker]] ([[User talk:Alanscottwalker|talk]]) 16:41, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

The committee has done the right thing by passing the motion - the matter is now settled, where there seemed bizarre and unneeded confusion before. (But if I can campaign a bit for what ''should'' be the RULE. One day let's really go all the way with NOFORUM: 'if you're not discussing a RS's opinion of a subject we cover, no opinions of subjects, thanks.') [[User:Alanscottwalker|Alanscottwalker]] ([[User talk:Alanscottwalker|talk]]) 18:02, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by The ed17 ===
I'm a fan of the [[New Orleans Saints]]. If, hypothetically speaking, I expressed my sadness about the death of [[Drew Brees]] on {{u|Keeper76}}'s talk page, would that be against policy? Or, how about the op-ed "[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2013-06-12/Op-ed|The tragedy of Wikipedia's commons]]" that I published when I was the editor of the ''Signpost''. That had a rather sharp point of view. What I'm saying here is that you're completely allowed to express opinions in project and userspace. [[WP:NPOV|Neutral point of view]] applies to ''articles''. All in all, {{u|GreenMeansGo}} hits the nail on the head. Not only did FPaS violate INVOLVED, they weren't even within policy had they kept to non-admin actions. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 23:15, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

:{{ping|Swarm}} Can you quote any sentence(s) in the talk page guidelines' "[[WP:TPO|Editing others' comments]]" section that support your opinion? 'Cos here's the thing. If you're talking about its mention of "living persons," let me point you to this line from [[WP:BLP]], section "Non-article space": "{{green|Although this policy applies to posts about Wikipedians in project space, some leeway is permitted to allow the handling of administrative issues by the community, but administrators may delete such material if it rises to the level of defamation, or if it constitutes a violation of no personal attacks.}}" (I think we can all agree that "The death of Billy Graham was a profound loss" is not defamation or a personal attack.) [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 03:27, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|Swarm}} I thought you might go there, to which I would invite you to read my statement above, or to [[WP:ITNC]] when [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates&oldid=831089295 someone like Stephen Hawking passes away] (sorry, direct section link doesn't work with the brackets). There just isn't consensus, and will never be consensus, for the interpretation you're proposing. Will you be removing all non-Wikipedia-related userboxes? I invite you to remove the following: I'm a fan of the New Orleans Saints. They're a great team, helped by Drew Brees being one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. He will one day be in the Hall of Fame. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 04:22, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
::I'll add here that there is a limit where other people's opinions can and should be edited. Gross personal attacks come to mind, or nasty bits of sexism/racism, or plenty of other scenarios. But going after a kind word in the project or userspace, even if it's about someone I personally disagree(d) with, is what's never going to get consensus if put to a wider forum. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 04:28, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:{{ping|Alex Shih}} Note that [[WP:NPOV]] applies only to the mainspace. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 20:10, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|Opabinia regalis}} The point above is to show that NPOV applies only to the mainspace. I'm happy to modify my example into something more controversial, if you'd prefer... ;-) [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 23:41, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Tarage ===
{{ArbCom evidence length header|word=730|dLimit=123456789}}

The start of this incident was a minor content dispute that quickly escalated into the mess Arbcom sees before it. [[User:ජපස]] brought forward a complaint about NPOV in a Wikipedia newsletter without a single attempt at discussion, along with canvasing at other boards. By the time I read it, it was clear that the discussion was going nowhere and that it was indeed a content dispute, so I hatted the section: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=834122924]. However, [[User:GreenMeansGo]] put forward a request for a topic ban from religious articles, and [[User:ජපස]]'s response convinced me that this was the best course of action, so I voted in support. At this point, [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise]] started edit warring about the removal of the phrase without even attempting to discuss. This resulted in him also protecting the page, an incredibly inappropriate move for an involved administrator which drew swift condemnation from many involved. After more argument about the merits of such an action, and again with little to no talk page communication, the protection was removed. Because I felt strongly that this action was abuse of admin powers based on several of the arguments already presented above, I went to revert back to where the article had been as is how I understand the edit/revert/discuss cycle to work, I reverted his edit citing vandalism, which I felt FPaS's actions to be: admin vandalism [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=prev&oldid=834277576], and proceeded to voice my displeasure with the subsequent slight on my edit summary which I defended [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=834280035], and then my frustration with the protection being re-applied and attempted to disengage before I did anything further [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=834280900]. Between the two edits, while I was formulating the last response, [[User:JzG]] left a warning on my talk page [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834280709&oldid=826281818]. Because I saw him as trying to support FPaS's actions, I told him I didn't want him on my talk page in the future, something I understood was in my ability to do [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834281058&oldid=834280709]. Immediately after, [[User:Swarm]] blocked me [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834281139&oldid=834281058]. This happened before I made any edits beyond the removal of the warning. Though his own admission, the block was for the very same edit I had just been warned for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834281316&oldid=834281139][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834281540&oldid=834281316]. I attempted to have the block removed on the grounds that I was being blocked for behavior I had just been warned for, double jeopardy if you would [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834281899&oldid=834281629] and GMG came to my defense [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834282752&oldid=834282393]. After multiple attempts to discern his motives, Swarm admitted that he considers removing a warning to be a blockable offense [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834283087&oldid=834282904][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834283231&oldid=834283087][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834287908&oldid=834287403], that he blocked me for edits made prior to the warning [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834283859&oldid=834283578], that telling an admin you want to take them to arbcom is a 'threat' and justification for blocking after the fact [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834285793&oldid=834285437] and yet felt that taking it to arbcom was a fine thing to do [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834288176&oldid=834287908], and lashed out at GMG for calling him out on these things [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834289583&oldid=834288307]. He also admitted that he was wheelwaring the admin who left the waring [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834294348&oldid=834294246]. After dealing with his hostile and escalating behavior, I asked that he no longer post on my talk page, as I thought was my right [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834311708&oldid=834311047], but he proceeded to ignore this [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834312506&oldid=834311708], ping me three times [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Swarm&diff=834314386&oldid=834314253][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Swarm&diff=834314709&oldid=834314386][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Swarm&diff=834491657&oldid=834440454] and e-mail me despite my request not to interact with him further. His behavior was again called out by GMG for his unbecoming behavior, and when [User:User:Boing!_said_Zebedee] removed the block, recognizing that it was both controversial and punitive rather than preventative (Remember, I had already numerous times stated I was not going to edit the article or anything related again) [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tarage&diff=834430189&oldid=834428590], he started harassing him, to the point that even unrelated user [User:RexxS] told him he was going too far. I encourage all involved to look at my talk page[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tarage], Swarm's talk page[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Swarm] and BsZ's talk page[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Boing!_said_Zebedee] to see the full extent of Sawrm's unbecoming behavior. While I don't believe this rises to the level of revoking his mop, I do believe he should be sanctioned, and I request that my block log, which had been spotless to this point, be amended to reflect that this block was unjust and should not have been placed so that it can't be used against me should future issues arise. Also, I am posting this in both cases because I believe the two to be related, but will respect arbcom's judgement on how the cases should be structured. --[[User:Tarage|Tarage]] ([[User talk:Tarage|talk]]) 06:36, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

===Statement by Cullen328===
If I was writing a signed newsletter opinion piece for editors interested in the American Civil Rights movement, and wrote a sentence saying that I considered the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr 50 years ago to be a loss for Americans, which motivated my interest in the topic area and led me to write and expand biographies civil rights figures (all of which is true), should that trigger an edit war, accusations of spam, protection of the newsletter and an attempt at an arbitration case? Only in a 21st century version of Alice in Wonderland. If we are going to ruthlessly purge every shred of personal opinion from every wikiproject communication, then collaboration among like minded editors will be severely impeded. We are not talking about article space or article talk space, but rather one sentence in an opt-in newsletter. There is an absurdist aspect to this whole controversy. Instead of accepting a case, ArbCom should just say "chill out" or something to that effect. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 05:34, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Johnuniq ===
There is no case suitable for ArbCom because a community discussion at ANI ([[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive980#Taking a position on whether Billy Graham's death was a "profound loss"|archive]] [[Special:PermanentLink/834515658#Taking a position on whether Billy Graham's death was a "profound loss"|<sup>ANI permalink</sup>]]) did not conclude there was a problem. Five uninvolved editors endorsed FP's actions and FP clearly stated ([[Special:Diff/834215171|diff]] among others) that he regarded removal of "a profound loss" and subsequent protection as an enforcement of policy. The five endorsements show that was a soundly based opinion. I would have also endorsed the admin action since a local consensus should not overrule community norms and action was required given that the newsletter was about to be delivered. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 05:06, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

===Statement by Literaturegeek===
I had never actually heard of Billy Graham before this drama kicked off, perhaps because I am based in the UK, nor had I heard of Future Perfect at Sunrise.

I was following the administrator's noticeboard/incidents when FPaS took a POV course of action that seemed pedantic and his attitude and use of admin tools was silly and perhaps even absurd. Remember: The content dispute was about someone who is a recently deceased person who was known and liked by many, so FPaS, I feel, should've been more sensitive instead of slightly aggressive in dealing with this dispute.

I don't think, per [[WP:INVOLVED]], that ArbCom can ignore this case because of the edit warring and use of admin tools to enforce a preferred POV version.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834253159&oldid=834241584],[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=834261152&oldid=834260592] This then follows futher unacceptable behaviour by page protecting to enforce his preferred version.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=Future+Perfect+at+Sunrise&page=+Wikipedia%3AWikiProject+Christianity%2FOutreach%2FApril+2018&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_thanks_log=1&hide_patrol_log=1&hide_tag_log=1&hide_review_log=1]

Admin actions aside, it is very dubious that he had policy on his side wrt the content dispute. The best approach was a talk page discussion to achieve a consensus. This happened quite easily with editors agreeing to qualify the newsletter mentioning the death of Billy Graham by changing "profound loss" to "profound loss by many". There was no need for misuse of admin tools with somewhat hostile POV pushing.

Especially concerning was his attitude to the concerns of the community,[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&diff=834443588&oldid=834443498] suggesting he does not want to admit fault or is still unable to resolve his POV to appropriate behaviour of an admin. This would be of concern with respect to the risk of a repeat of this behaviour. This is another reason an admonishment (as a final warning of sorts) should be considered to reenforce that his behaviour should not have happened, and to imply that a repeat could result in a full ArbCom case and/or recourse to more serious consequences such as a dysopp.

Full cases are more designed to investigate complex long-term problems where the facts are not obvious. The community expects at least some action to be taken against administrators who misuse their tools. I think, given it is an isolated (but still serious) incidence and the facts are clear, that an admonishment, rather than a full case with possible dysopp, is the best option.

A draconian full case might be overkill for an admin who made a mistake, but is otherwise probably a well intentioned 'good guy' who is administrating and helping with the building of our encyclopedia.--[[User:Literaturegeek|<span style="color:blue">Literaturegeek</span>]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[User_talk:Literaturegeek|<span style="color:blue">''T@1k?''</span>]] 07:10, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by JzG ===
This was a remarkably silly dispute that was resolved quickly after I initiated discussion at the talk page for the newsletter. Lionel considered that a byline framed the entire document as a statement of personal opinion, and thus the opinion on Graham, a divisive figure as surely everyone is aware, was a statement of opinion and not a statement of fact in Wikipedia's (or the project's) voice. After a bit of discussion I think he accepts that reasonable people could easily take a different view, and he agreed to qualify the statement. And I really do think that is all that was needed.

I am fairly sure that [[user:ජපස]] will move to another new name. His former usernames include: [[User:ScienceApologist]], [[User:Joshua P. Schroeder]], [[User:VanishedUser314159]], [[User:Previously ScienceApologist]], [[User:QTxVi4bEMRbrNqOorWBV]], [[User:I9Q79oL78KiL0QTFHgyc]], [[User:WoKrKmFK3lwz8BKvaB94]], [[User:9SGjOSfyHJaQVsEmy9NS]] (from {{section link|Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive970|Username:ජපස aka jps}}). I am probably not the only admin familiar with his long history of disputes.

The bizarre thing here is that none of those involved actually initiated discussion on the talk page, instead preferring edit summaries and the drama board. I suspect that qualifies for [[WP:TROUT]]s all round, but probably no more. I think the community should formulate some guidelines on neutrality in newsletters. This looked like a DYK (and indeed referenced DYK), so it is not ridiculous to think that some standard of neutrality should legitimately apply. If anything positive is to come out of this, I would suggest that better guidance for newsletter editors might be that thing. But that's not ArbCom's remit. <b>[[User Talk:JzG|Guy]]</b> <small>([[User:JzG/help|Help!]])</small> 07:05, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:Addendum: according to [[Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Outreach]] this appears to have been Lionelt's first experience editing the newsletter, and the first time it has been published since 2014.

=== Statement by Mendaliv ===
I think the Committee should accept this case. While I was uncertain initially, an analysis of the facts makes it clear that FPaS's use of the tools was probably improper and unreasonable, though I do not believe FPaS's actions were ideologically, religiously, or politically motivated. Rather, I believe the problem is that Graham was during his life, as a leading religious figure in the United States, a significant figure in what is known as the [[Culture war#United States of America|American culture wars]], the liberal-versus-conservative battle that has raged in American society since at least the 1980s. Had Graham been an American politician, I have little doubt that FPaS's action would have been appropriate under AP2, and that's where part of the problem lies: AP2's breadth and the effect it has had.{{parabr}}Because no discretionary sanctions are authorized in the topic area of the American culture wars, religious leaders, or anything that really sweeps up Graham, there was no mandate authorizing FPaS's unilateral and urgent removal of the statement, let alone backing it up with page protection. No justification other than [[WP:BLP]]-violative derogatory statements or copyright violation could support such rapid, unilateral, pre-discussion action. [[WP:NOTFORUM]] is an argument that should have been made at the talk page, and upon a consensus being reached that the statement indeed would run afoul of policy, it should have been removed or modified. Rapid action without discussion is not the Wikipedia way, and should not be undertaken when there is no urgency. [[WP:TIND|There is no deadline]].{{parabr}}Finally, I would ask whether anybody would have cared or acted with urgency if, say, [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Firefly]] had a newsletter and in it described the cancellation of ''[[Firefly (TV series)|Firefly]]'' to be a "profound loss". That Graham courted controversy and was a religious figure should not be seen as particularly relevant, at least for the purposes of the case request phase. It may be relevant in determining the severity of sanctions.{{parabr}}In conclusion, the Committee should accept this case because there was no policy or DS regime justification for the urgent, unilateral removal of the offending material, and similarly there was no such justification for page protection. The misuse of tools not being a technical or accidental misuse, and the dogged insistence of FPaS that the use of tools was proper in light of these facts, is indicative that other misuses may exist. As such, the collection and evaluation of evidence that occurs in a full case is proper. —/[[User:Mendaliv|'''M'''<small>endaliv</small>]]/<sup><small>[[User talk:Mendaliv|2¢]]</small></sup>/<sub><small>[[Special:Contributions/Mendaliv|Δ's]]</small></sub>/ 20:59, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Robert McClenon ===
This, like the other two cases now pending, appears to be a case involving a single mistake by an administrator in use of administrative tools. The fact that FPaS says that they have nothing to add (e.g., no statement that maybe they were mistaken) is not important. FPaS is blunt-spoken and has a dismissive manner, but that is less important than that FPaS is usually right, and no one has said that FPaS has a pattern of being wrong or misusing tools. It would be better if FPaS could admit that maybe they used poor judgment, but there is no requirement that administrators admit that every action might have been a mistake. The ArbCom should decline this case.

I will add that, if the filing party in the first case or this case thinks that there is a pattern of misuse of tools, they should refile stating that there is a pattern, not a mistake. (The third case was self-filed and is in a different class.) If any party in any case thinks that we need better guidelines on proper use of tools, we can start a discussion at [[WP:VPP|Village pump (Policy)]] rather than in an ArbCom case.

[[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 19:39, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
====Minor Update====
An IP address posted several copies of a diatribe against FPaS on my talk page, before one of the arbitrators semi-protected my talk page. I don't know why they chose to vent on my talk page, and I don't care. Normally I give IP addresses the dignity of referring to them as unregistered editors, but this was obviously a banned editor instead who has a grudge against FPaS. Just noting this for the record. I see that the ArbCom is about to decline this case, which I think is the right action. The banned editor has simply substantiated the case that they should stay banned. [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 20:53, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
====Final (?) Comment====
I think that the reason I got the diatribe was that I offered restrained criticism of FPaS, saying that they would have done better if they had admitted that they might have made a mistake, and saying that I have known them to be blunt-spoken and dismissive, but that I still didn't recommend an ArbCom case. In other words, I got a diatribe from one side because I tried to take a reasonable middle position. I will be following this up with an essay in user space or Wikipedia space on some long-term abusers. They are net.kooks. If the behavior of a banned user is so bizarre as to suggest insanity, the most likely explanation is insanity. Anonymous computer networks have a long history of bizarre characters, sometimes known as net.kooks, dating back to the earliest days of the [[Usernet]], even before it was on the [[Internet]]. This would-be case isn't about kooks, but there will always be kooks and a need to block them for disruption and sockpuppetry. [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] ([[User talk:Robert McClenon|talk]]) 14:54, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by Jehochman ===
Administrators are supposed to be clueful. FPaS needs to use a lighter touch going forward or else they are going to be at high risk of losing sysop access next time there is a substantial complaint about their actions. I've seen this story before, and know how it ends. Over the years FPaS always seems to be near the center of a swirling controversy. Maybe they take on hard problems, or maybe they aren't very good at defusing conflicts. Either way, it's time to dial it back a few notches. There are other admins who will step in. Don't feel like you have to do it all yourself. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 11:52, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Statement by {Non-party} ===
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.
<!-- * Please copy this section for the next person. * -->

=== Misuse of mop: Clerk notes ===
:''This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).''
*Tagged overlength statements. [[User:Amortias|Amortias]] ([[User talk:Amortias|T]])([[Special:Contributions/Amortias|C]]) 21:11, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Misuse of mop: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/7/0> ===
{{anchor|1=Misuse of mop: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter}}<small>Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)</small>

* I don't think this requires a full case, and I don't think it rises to the level of a desysop. I would be open to a final warning to FPaS to avoid the appearance of INVOLVEment. <span style="color: #9932CC">[[:User:KrakatoaKatie|Katie]]<sup>[[User talk:KrakatoaKatie|talk]]</sup></span> 21:35, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
** '''Decline'''. A motion is in the works. <span style="color: #9932CC">[[:User:KrakatoaKatie|Katie]]<sup>[[User talk:KrakatoaKatie|talk]]</sup></span> 19:45, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
* Leaning decline. ¶ As a general statement, editorial comment in a newsletter, especially one sent only to members of a wikiproject who have opted to receive it, need not be "neutral" as article content must be. After all, the "Signpost" regularly contains editorials including on contentious matters. ¶ There are some expectations that apply even in these contexts. Communications to editors must not be ''misleading'', such as when they would appear to speak for Wikipedia rather than an individual (compare, [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Karmafist]]). Additionally, no content is allowed in any space if it is inherently disruptive or brings the project into disrepute ([[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Billy Ego-Sandstein]]), or which read in context violates the BLP policy ([[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others]]). ¶ In the context of a wikiproject newsletter mourning a recent death, we can all agree that (for example) a wikiproject newsletter stating that Stephen Hawking's death was a loss would be perfectly acceptable, while a wikiproject newsletter stating that the death of some despicable, mass-murderous tyrant was a loss would not be. Where, as here, the subject is a person whom some people admire and others do not, there are shades of gray ... but ones that have never posed a problem before that I've heard of, nor are likely to be much of a problem in the future. ¶ Future Perfect at Sunrise (FPaS) was within his rights to raise his concern about including what he perceived as a contentious political statement in a newsletter. But that statement was written in an individual voice and was not intentionally or inherently disruptive, so full-protecting while it was being discussed was an overreaction. But FPaS's error did not lie in taking a self-interested or "involved" action, because in his mind his entire role was as an administrator enforcing policy. Rather, any error was in his taking an ''unwarranted'' or ''excessive'' action, by enforcing neutrality in an instance where neutrality was not required. While I don't care for administrators throwing their elbows around in this fashion, this type of judgment call is not a "bright-line" offense and the discussion here may help clarify expectations in this area. ¶ I appreciate why Jbhunley brought this request here, but based on my experience this is a situation in which a lengthy arbitration case will make matters worse rather than help solve them. Also, I am not unduly troubled by FPaS's removing posts by a banned troll who, if could be identified, would properly be the subject of a restraining order. Therefore, I am glad to see discussion play out here, but absent some new factor arising, I lean toward declining the case. ¶ As a final point, this request is another reminder that we on the Committee need to revisit the issue of word limits. My review of this case was complicated, rather than eased, by editors' having to revise their statements and insert links to old versions when responding to comments in an effort to meet the limits, and I expect this will prove true for others as well. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 22:21, 6 April 2018 (UTC) \
**'''Decline'''. Please also see my comments in [[Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests#I_don't_understand|the thread on the talkpage]]. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 15:02, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
*'''Decline''' agreeing largely with my colleagues above. In particular we've dropped the ball on word limits and need to make a decision. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 10:12, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
*'''Decline'''. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 00:44, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
**Yes, that was an edit war, and I would support a motion admonishing Future Perfect at Sunrise for participating in one. I don't think that rises to the level of desysopping, and I don't think a full case is needed to examine those few diffs; it's pretty clear what happened. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 14:34, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
*'''Decline''' a case in this instance, but I do '''support''' a motion. [[User:RickinBaltimore|RickinBaltimore]] ([[User talk:RickinBaltimore|talk]]) 15:14, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
*As there does not appears to be a clear consensus on whether or not {{noping|Future Perfect at Sunrise}}'s administrative actions were [[WP:INVOLVE|involved or not]], I would '''decline''' a full case but '''support''' a motion to clarify two questions: 1) Is it acceptable for an administrator to [[WP:ADMINCOND|overlook best practice]] and proceed to edit warring for the purpose of enforcing [[WP:NPOV|neutrality]], regardless of namespace 2) Where do we stand on whether or not there was administrative misconduct by FPaS. [[User:Alex Shih|Alex Shih]] ([[User talk:Alex Shih|talk]]) 05:30, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
* '''Decline'''. &spades;[[User:Premeditated Chaos|PMC]]&spades; [[User_talk:Premeditated Chaos|(talk)]] 06:15, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
{{anchor|Misuse_of_mop_2}}
*'''Decline'''. This is a whole pile of my least favorite issues, but none of them seem to rise to the level of an arb case. For one thing, I really have to object, yet again, to this recent trend of parties refusing to participate in case requests. If it's an obviously vexatious complaint, I think you can trust us to recognize it as such. If it's a good-faith attempt to raise concerns, even if you don't like the method/venue/etc, and even if you think arbs are awful and smell bad and you want nothing to do with us, it's still respectful to the community to actually participate when someone is otherwise following what we've all agreed is the right pathway for resolving disputes. So {{u|Future Perfect at Sunrise}}, color me unimpressed with your conduct on that account. {{parabr}} On the other hand, nothing makes me less persuaded of an argument than citing alleged "bright line" violations of whatever; raising a stink over an admittedly insignificant issue because you think there are Important Principles at stake is in other contexts known as [[WP:POINT]]. It is obvious that FPaS' position, in so many words, is that writing something positive about Graham on dozens of talk pages was inappropriate enough to "bring the project into disrepute", not merely a case of clunky writing for a self-selected audience. (To the people comparing this incident to "NPOV" in writing about TV shows and movies and sports and things, that really minimizes the concerns about Graham, whose positions and public comments were *cough* ''viewed by many'' as sexist, homophobic, and anti-Semitic - not exactly comparable to writing a newsletter about how your favorite sports team should've won the game.) To be sure, that's not to say FPaS was correct in his approach - IMO it was completely counterproductive, and I hope he takes that feedback on board - but it's a real, substantive argument that deserves to be handled on its merits, not with procedural complaints or accusations of abuse. For that reason I don't see much value in a motion here making a general statement about "involved-ness", and I really struggle to see isolated admonishments and the like as beneficial, so I'm in favor of a straight decline. [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 07:31, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
**{{u|Jbhunley}} Attack? Not exactly. "Question the wisdom of continuing to pursue a solved problem", yes. Granted, WP:POINT is a bit of rhetorical excess. An ANI thread that was closed with the summary "discussion on the talk page has pretty much resolved the dispute" is a rare treat. [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 16:13, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

====Motion: Misuse of Administrator Tools====
{{ivmbox|1=The Arbitration Committee reminds administrators that they should generally not use administrative tools in situations where good-faith editors disagree about how a content policy should be applied and the administrator holds a strong opinion on the dispute. {{User|Future Perfect at Sunrise}} is admonished for [[WP:EW|edit-warring]] in support of their preferred version of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Outreach/April 2018]] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=next&oldid=834143873][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Christianity%2FOutreach%2FApril_2018&type=revision&diff=834253159&oldid=834241584][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Outreach/April_2018&diff=next&oldid=834260592]). He is advised that future similar conduct may result in sanctions.}}
:''{{ACMajority|active = 10 |inactive = 5 |recused = 0 |motion = yes}}'' <!-- Inactive: Callanecc, DQ, Euryalus, Ks0stm, Mkdw. Arbs on that list who vote should be moved to active. ~Kevin -->
:'''Enacted''': '''[[User:L235|Kevin]]''' (<small>aka</small> [[User:L235|L235]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[User talk:L235#top|t]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[Special:Contribs/L235|c]]) 16:55, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
;Support
# I think this is a good summary, thank you {{u|BU Rob13}} for proposing. There are clearly disagreements from the AN/I discussion and this case request over the interpretation of what constitutes of [[WP:INVOLVE|administrative involvement]], and a clarification on what would have been the better practice can only be beneficial to avoid a similar contentious situation from recurring. While I do agree admonishment(s) in general tend to achieve nothing, it is my opinion that in this case it is a superior option than inaction. [[User:Alex Shih|Alex Shih]] ([[User talk:Alex Shih|talk]]) 14:42, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
# ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 16:23, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
# Support, with usual reservations about admonishments. &spades;[[User:Premeditated Chaos|PMC]]&spades; [[User_talk:Premeditated Chaos|(talk)]] 19:30, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
# <span style="color: #9932CC">[[:User:KrakatoaKatie|Katie]]<sup>[[User talk:KrakatoaKatie|talk]]</sup></span> 01:33, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
# [[User:RickinBaltimore|RickinBaltimore]] ([[User talk:RickinBaltimore|talk]]) 01:36, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
# I wish there had been support for something stronger. I do see this as a bright-line violation, and the persistence in defending it as an expression of contempt for community consensus. I probably do agree with FPAS that the phrase should not have been used, but I know that this is my personal opinion. I find it inexplicable that anyone would defend an admin going by their personal opinion in a matter like this. I do not think that asking for a case here was an over-reaction. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 03:13, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
#[[User:Worm That Turned|<b style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;">''Worm''</b>]]<sup>TT</sup>([[User talk:Worm That Turned|<b style="color:#060;">talk</b>]]) 07:54, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

;Oppose
# Somewhat reluctantly, because FPaS certainly didn't handle this well. I almost did a "go along to get along" support here - if I don't think much of admonishments, then supporting one is harmless enough. But I'm just not feeling it. I do not think the distinction cited in Rob's comment below about BLP is as neat as it seems - there are some things we wouldn't allow on talk pages because they're obvious BLP violations, and other things where there can be good-faith disagreement about whether they are violations or not. It's no clearer with other types of material that risks bringing the project into disrepute. When people have a good-faith belief that they are enforcing BLP about a time-sensitive issue, even if the consensus view later concludes that they were wrong, we don't generally then formally "admonish" them for making a mistake. And we're not admonishing for the protection, which is a centerpoint of the complaint about admin abuse, but was self-reverted - or the uncommunicative attitude here, which is (IMO) disrespectful to one's colleagues, but not a policy violation - but for "edit warring"? Feels too much to me like we think FPaS needs an admonishment so we'll search for something to cite him for. "Admonished for being a [[WP:JERK]]"? {{parabr}} As for some of the comments above, I'm familiar with the previous motion related to FPaS. I remember it because I wrote it. It was, I think, my first significant contribution as an arbitrator. I specifically wrote the text to ''avoid'' the word "admonished", not that that seems to have made any difference in anyone's subsequent interpretation of it. I can certainly tell you that the sense of the committee at the time was that ''both'' of the major parties in that dispute had behaved poorly, and that the problem was exacerbated by their poor communication and failure to take feedback on board. Of the last part, FPaS is certainly guilty again, but he's not the only one making that particular, common mistake. The common feature among the participants in this dispute is that everyone obviously cares deeply about the project - one person overreacted and made a bad decision trying to protect it, and others overreacted trying to protect the project from future bad decisions. Seems to me that the best thing to do is stop the escalation cycle, step back, and move on. [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 08:37, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
# I've been trying to figure out what's the best course, and the main thing that keeps coming to mind, probably because I do a lot of thinking while walking my 15 year old miniature poodle for 3 miles, is "bad dog no biscuit". If I could withhold a biscuit from FPaS I might, but I can't so I think we should "step bac, and move on". I'm in full agreement with Opabinia's comments. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 10:31, 16 April 2018 (UTC) I've just read [[User:Jehochman]]'s comments. I think they are spot on but I still don't think this motion is necessary. It's pretty clear that no one is going to forget this incident if there are further problems. My opposition doesn't mean that I approve of the behavior of anyone of those involved. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 17:51, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
;Abstain
#

;Recuse
#

;Comments by arbitrators
*Proposing something to get the ball rolling here. I do think we should specifically remind administrators that it's not okay to act in an [[WP:INVOLVED|involved]] manner if there is a good-faith dispute over how content policies should be applied. One cannot simply yell "Policy!" to justify an involved action if there have been arguments made that the policy actually shouldn't be applied in that way. To be clear, this isn't the same as a clear and severe BLP violation, etc., where no good-faith argument could be made against removing the material. I think an admonishment is worthwhile here for a variety of reasons, including the fact that the administrator hasn't provided any hint that they understand they got this one wrong. I'm very open to changes in wording, etc., but we should try to wrap this up somewhat soon. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 14:20, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
**{{re|Jbhunley}} I'm not interested in admonishing for the administrative action since it was self-reverted. Suffice to say, it was also improper, but I don't think an admonishment on that point is helpful when the admin self-reverted already. As for "generally", I'd personally prefer to drop it, but I suspect it is needed to get support for this motion from the rest of the Committee. I want to make sure this ends with something other than just archiving. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 15:07, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
*{{re|Opabinia regalis}} With respect, I don’t think that’s an accurate description of what happened. The ANI thread closed with consensus that this was a content dispute before the edit war/protection, not after, from the evidence presented above. This was reverted by FPaS and then the edit war proceeded. This wasn’t a simple mistake where consensus later emerged for a different direction. This was ignoring consensus and enforcing one’s personal view. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 09:49, 16 April 2018 (UTC) <small>(fixing ping {{re|Opabinia regalis}}) ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 09:51, 16 April 2018 (UTC)</small>
*Some general thoughts: Administrators are either expected to lead by example, or they don't. Putting the entire situation aside (which has been inconsistently summarised I think), I would completely agree with what is being suggested by {{u|Opabinia regalis}} and {{u|Doug Weller}} <u>if</u> FPaS has shown ''any'' consideration over the feedbacks received across different venues up until this point, which is what would have been expected of anyone (editors, administrators) involved in a similar situation. But since that did not happen and is unlikely to happen (as they have maintained to stand behind their every word), I cannot see how stepping back in this case would be a form of de-escalation, as it is effectively and will be an endorsement of their conduct regardless of the stern wordings that have been uniformly expressed. [[User:Alex Shih|Alex Shih]] ([[User talk:Alex Shih|talk]]) 12:41, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

;Community comments
*I think that Alex Shih's point is an important one, that lack of action by the Committee on this issue can easily be construed as approval of -- or at least acquiescence to -- FPaS's behavior. I believe that would be an unfortunate impression to give, and would create a bad precedent as well. I would urge the opposing arbitrators to reconsider on that basis. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 20:44, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

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