Wikipedia:Featured article review/The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask/archive3

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Notified: Gary King, Pagrashtak, WP Video games, 2022-12-11

Review section

Featured article that was first promoted back in December 2005 (current status is from 2008). This nearly two decade old featured article lacks citations in several areas, has a cleanup banner from as far back as November 2021 that addresses a lack of citations, some sources noted on the talk page are missing, and the article itself is largely abandoned. I also believe that it might violate the MOS:VG when it comes to the organization of the Reception section, and some images may not be necessary. No large efforts to improve this articles issues have occurred since they were pointed out, and all edits recently have been relatively small. I might not be too familiar with the featured article criteria, but I'm very certain that this article needs improvement and currently does not meet it. NegativeMP1 21:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I don't see any of the people you said you notified were actually notified. GamerPro64 14:22, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I thought that the people would be notified automatically? Whatever, mistake on my part, fixing that when I can NegativeMP1 15:49, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm interested in working on this when I can. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Had a busy week last week, still working on this. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:08, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Marking as on my list to check over. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 17:11, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article definitely needs a lot of TLC...

Gameplay section is pretty haphazard, and does a bad job explaining the gameplay to someone who hasn't already played Ocarina of Time. I'm not sure the gameplay makes sense to split into subsections about the masks and time cycle, but that might be just a cosmetic rather than important organizational quibble.
The synopsis is much better than it was thanks to edits, but it still repeats itself a lot (the plight of the regions is mentioned in setting and again in the plot) and I think is missing a few details to make sense of it (why does Tatl have no other choice than to help Link?)
The Development section has some IMO improper use of sources to synthesize conjectures (like Ura Zelda becoming Master Quest) and generally feels pretty slight for such a recognized and important game.
Reception definitely needs beefing up and a rewrite. Likewise the Legacy needs a cleanup. Sourcing throughout is not up to modern standards (Screenrant refs, unreferenced statements, and the like.) Much closer to a B-class article than FA these days. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 12:07, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move to FARC It seems that work on the article stalled without much progress in about a month. Alex Titanium also seems to have gone inactive for now. While the cleanup tags were addressed and the article looks to be in a better state, specifically in Gameplay, but areas like Reception and Legacy still seem rough. NegativeMP1 07:04, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move to FARC (which does not preclude further improvements towards saving the star should engagement re-occur). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:04, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move to FARC per above. Hog Farm _Talk 00:48, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

FARC section

Issues raised in the review section include sourcing and organization. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:19, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delist per what I said above to move to FARC. NegativeMP1 18:30, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Oops, I probably shouldn't have posted my last message before going on a monthlong trip to a country with limited (blocked) Wikipedia access. 😅 Well I'm back home now and ready to keep pecking at this... Seems quite surmountable. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:00, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Just a quick update on this. I've been researching and gathering sources when I can but I've been running into some computer issues that have been hampering my productivity (i.e. crashing when I open a bunch of tabs). Hope to get it fixed soon and get back to work on this article. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:00, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hay @Axem Titanium:, how are you going with this? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Computer situation isn't quite sorted but I'm going to get working on this this week just to clear it off my desk. Thanks for your patience! Axem Titanium (talk) 20:31, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fingers crossed you get some time to help out :) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:27, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, it's going to take a bit of time to finish archiving and unifying the formatting for 150+ sources but I'm done with largely all of my content edits. Thank you all for bearing with me all this time. I invite participants in this discussion to reevaluate based on the improvements. @NegativeMP1, GamerPro64, Casliber, David Fuchs, Nikkimaria, Hog Farm, and SandyGeorgia: Axem Titanium (talk) 23:08, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I've finished formatting and archiving all the sources. Phew! Axem Titanium (talk) 02:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some thoughts:

N-Sider is used in this article as is marked as unreliable at WP:VGRS
David Fuchs appears to have been questioned the use of Screenrant above
FAs should be using high-quality reliable sources, which is a stricter bar than basic reliability. What makes the following sources high-quality RS: wccftech (marked as unreliable at VGRS), Zelda Informer (also marked as unreliable at VGRS), Game Kudos (not at VGRS, which appears to be a sign of definite obscurity), WWG (seems to be associated with comicbook.com, which is marked as inconclusive at VGRS), Nintendo Everything (marked as unreliable at VGRS - current citation does not name the publisher), Escapist (VGRS notes that this has had issues with insufficient editorial oversight in the past - while this is outside of the unreliable time range, is this really a superior source for FA purposes?), Noisy Pixel (marked as unreliable at VGRS, again the publisher is not named in the citation)

None of these sources are used heavily, but that's still 9 sources there's some reason to have doubts about them being up to the FA standard. I think more sourcing work is needed here. Hog Farm _Talk 00:28, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have replaced all the unreliable sources. The two Escapist articles are from known reliable game critics (Yahtzee Croshaw and Marty Sliva, formerly of IGN). They are high quality sources. Axem Titanium (talk) 09:09, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

File:Clock town.ogg - licensing is problematic. The "own work" does really work because its a derivative copy of the video game music, which would be under copyright. I've nominated for deletion on Commons.
"Link in his Goron form. The time limit is displayed at the bottom of the screen." - it's unclear what time limit this is referring to

That's all that stands out to me but I'm not very familiar with video games. Hog Farm _Talk 20:56, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing that out; I didn't even realize it was filed under a CC license. Definitely not appropriate for Commons. I edited the caption for clarity. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:24, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the .ogg file for now per the deletion request; I think we can keep now. Hog Farm _Talk 21:37, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments and feedback! Axem Titanium (talk) 22:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Going to take another look this week or weekend. Thanks Axem for all your hard work thus far making improvements. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 16:29, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Fuchs, are you still planning on looking at this? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:21, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, thanks for the reminder. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 12:57, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Fuchs, any update on this? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:12, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The prose still needs some work; I've started doing some edits. I think the major outstanding issue for me is the gameplay section, which doesn't seem like it's a great introduction to the actual gameplay if you don't know what Ocarina of Time is and can backfill in the information. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 18:17, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@David Fuchs: It has been three months. Have you made much progress? QuicoleJR (talk) 15:03, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Haven't worked on it much at all, to be honest. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 15:30, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I had completely forgotten about this (didn't get any pings?). What issues do you still have with the prose? I'll see what I can do about the Gameplay section when I have a spare moment this week. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:16, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Axem Titanium I think restructuring the gameplay section so it doesn't start with Ocarina (a game for which someone might have no frame of reference) would be a good start. The prose also flips between describing things in terms of what the player can do, and what Link can do—I think either is fine, but it needs to be consistent throughout. There's also some weird organization—ocarina songs for manipulating the three day cycle are mentioned under that subhead, which makes sense, but then other uses for the songs are discussed that have nothing to do with it (not sure the subhead needs to be there at all, but the organization could do with being a bit more thought-out. (I think the Jackson guitar thing should be cut entirely because it's irrelevant to understanding the gameplay as well.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 16:24, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@David Fuchs Thanks for the comments. I made some changes to help clear that up. In terms of player vs. Link, I made some adjustments to ensure that "player" is only used for things that the player does (like save the game or solve a puzzle in their head) and Link is used for things that Link does (like swing a sword). Axem Titanium (talk) 22:30, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Axem. I'm going to do another pass through and see if there's any sourcing that might help, then edit what's there. It's looking better. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 22:00, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]