Talk:2015 in South Africa

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This article is written in South African English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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Mmusi Maimane

Hi, Andre Kritzinger. You recently removed a sentence on the page 2015 in South Africa in which it was stated that the newly-elected Mmusi Maimane is the first black leader of the Democratic Alliance, claiming that it was "racist" and irrelevant. Innumerable reliable secondary sources ^[1] ^[2] ^[3] ^[4] ^[5] (nearly all, in fact) that covered the election stated this fact somewhere in their articles. Saying that Maimane's racial background is irrelevant is like claiming that it is irrelevant that Barack Obama is the first African-American President of the United States, or that it is irrelevant that Margaret Thatcher was the first and only female British Prime Minister. I strongly disagree with you on this matter, and look forward to hearing your response. Many thanks, Knyzna1 (talk) 18:52, 21 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

His colour is irrelevant. His ability is not, however. Same with Obama and Thatcher. And Mandela. Mentioning their colour or gender as "events" is actually racist/sexist and should be considered an insult to them, since it makes one wonder whether they were elected because they were able, or because they were coloured/female. And since all the sources you quote are media, here's my opinion, for what its worth:

One of South Africa's (and the world's) biggest problems is the media who stirs the racism pot at every opportunity. So what if Maimane is black?

When I look at Maimane, I don't see black. I see a young man that has, so far, impressed me.

When I look at Zuma and Malema and Mugabe, however, I DO see black, because the blackness is in their hearts, minds and attitudes. -- André Kritzinger (talk) 19:27, 21 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Personal feelings and attitudes aside, I still assert that his racial background is relevant and should be included in this article - the fact is mentioned in the article on Mmusi Maimane. Also, note that the lead sentence of each of the articles on Mandela, Margaret Thatcher and Obama (all of which have either GA or FA status) clearly state their racial background, or gender in Thatcher's case, as being notable. Knyzna1 (talk) 04:53, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Leave the genders or colours in the respective biographical articles then, where it belongs. In the year articles, a short sentence on their achievements/progress/appointments to date is more appropriate than their physical appearance, since in spite of what the media would attempt to lead one to consider as "important", he was elected on the grounds of his past performance and abilities, not his colour. (I'm copying this whole discussion to the year's talk page, where this debate is relevant.) -- André Kritzinger (talk) 11:29, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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[1] ttps://www.bdlive.co.za/national/politics/2015/05/10/mmusi-maimane-elected-as-das-new-leader

[2] ttps://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/stnews/2015/05/10/heat-and-fury-as-da-gets-first-black-leader

[3] ttps://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2015/05/10/mmusi-maimane-elected-as-new-da-leader

[4] ttps://mg.co.za/article/2015-05-13-look-what-the-das-got-itself-black-leader-white-saviour

[5] ttps://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Maimane-elected-new-DA-leader-20150510

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