User talk:Jingiby

YOU ARE A MACEDONIAN AND YOU SHOULD RECOGNIZE IT — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.11.74.215 (talk) 02:40, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

And you are sock of indefinitely blocked User:MicoApostolov and you should regognize it. Regs. Jingby (talk) 07:26, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect information

Please do not introduce incorrect information into articles, as you did to Saint Naum. Your edits appear to be vandalism and have been reverted. If you believe the information you added was correct, please cite references or sources or discuss the changes on the article's talk page before making them again. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you.

The references don't state he was a Bulgarian. Please check [WP:V] and [WP:YESPOV], specifically sections 'Avoid stating opinions as facts' and 'Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts'.

Also, you cherrypick your references by going to google books and searching for words that prove people (like St. Naum) are Bulgarian. The search words are still seen in the search field for reference #3 (http://books.google.bg/books?id=jv6jcwjW9WUC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=Obolensky+Dimitri+saint+naum&source=web&ots=LafaSfxPPR&sig=BL3YE7FJnkBf9AAQOxFUi3-WjSY&hl=bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA48,M1]</ref>.

Thank you.

Wisco2000 (talk) 16:30, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Personal attacks

Please do not attack other editors, as you did at Talk:National Liberation War of Macedonia. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.

Please take advice to this policy when using phrases like "politically motivated" "disruptive" "nationalistic" "vandalism" "if you are continuing you disruptive edits I am going to ..." etc.

Disruptive editing and Coatracking

Please assume good faith in your dealings with other editors, which you did not on National Liberation War of Macedonia. Assume that they are here to improve rather than harm Wikipedia.

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at National Liberation War of Macedonia. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted or removed.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor then please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
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Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive, until the dispute is resolved through consensus. Continuing to edit disruptively could result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you.

The part about Bulgaria (that you expanded 3-fold) was previously condensed and incorporated in sections where it belongs based on the chronological flow of the whole article. The way it was written, there was a disproportionate amount of space related to a subject (Bulgaria declaring war on Germany) that can be covered in a few sentences given the main of the article (National Liberation War of Macedonia). I did not remove a single one of your old references. Users can follow up on them if they want to read more. Feel free to expand in an article that pertains directly to that subject (Bulgaria in WWII, for instance) and link it, or write one if there isn't one already and link it. Please try to be more to the point.

Your recent and ongoing expansion of a subpart of the article is WP:COAT

I will leave it up to you to condense the section before I rever it.

Thank you. Wisco2000 (talk) 13:54, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Dimitar Dimitrov

This person has lived for the better part of their life in Skopje? How are they not from Skopje? I feel that you are following me and reverting at every possible opportunity. Please stop this behaviour. Lunch for Two (talk) 13:54, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

He is currently citizen of the city of Skopje. But he is not from this place, i.e. he is not from Skopje. Jingby (talk) 13:58, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

He has lived in Skopje for 30+ years. By this logic, Does Julia Gillard need the Category:People from Adelaide or does Barack Obama need the Category:Writers from Chicago, Illinois? By your logic, No, however others seem to think differently (and no there is no need for discussion to add such tags, it is nothing more than commonsense). Please stop these ridiculous revert wars you keep starting with me across Wikipedia. Thank you. Lunch for Two (talk) 14:05, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

You are kidding me? Do I really have to take this to an admin now? Lunch for Two (talk) 15:05, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Balkan DNA

Interesting. So what exactly is it showing: all Balkan peoples are (1) extremely uniform (2) 67% intermediacy between European and west Asian 'genetic make up' ? Can you explain to me - they appear to have both automosal DNA (? from eye colour, muscle) and are they matchig this with mtDNA and y-DNA ? Slovenski Volk (talk) 23:31, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

on it's own, wiThout text, it makes little sense. I think it's just attempted to do something like Fst, Ie comparing genetic distances b/w varius Balkan people's c.f. other regions. However, it's a dubious-looking data set Slovenski Volk (talk) 23:20, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

possibly, however, according to the paper I referenced, written in the 2000s, the author included them as Dinarics. The paper you highlight was written in the 1930s, not that it matters. I think Coon argued that western Macedonians are Dinarics, those from east (ie Strumica, etc) are more the Bulgarian type Slovenski Volk (talk) 02:51, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

According to William Z. Ripley's book The races of Europe of 1910 and his ethnographic map, the situation is the same. In western Macedonia are Albanians. Jingby (talk) 07:40, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

that's not exactly true. He depicts the region around and NW of Ohrid as Albanian, much like the situation today. I don;t know what Ripley described Macedonians as, I haven;t read his actual work. As for Coon, he includes Macedonia as a province of Bulgaria, but suggests that Macedonians approach Dinaric attributes, ie their being tallest of Bulgarians and with the highest cephalic index. From what I saw when I was in Maceodnia 2 weeks ago, (true) Macedonians are a varied lot. Some look frankly dark, others (like my brother and mother) are blonde, blue-eyed. Unfortunately, I've only met 3 Bulgarians. A mate from school, one young chap in Greece and a nurse from work: kinda green -eyed and brown hair Slovenski Volk (talk) 09:53, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that;s very much what Coon wrote. SO Bulgarians are quite varied, though mostly Mediterranean, Macedonians similar, approaching more Dinaric, whislt the Serbs, Croats, Montenegrins are typically "Dinaric". Anyhow, I want to touch up the SOuth Slavs Genetics section soon, just make it more streamlined. I;m not convinced that Nordveldt's theory about I2a2 suffices as a WP:RS, tho Slovenski Volk (talk) 04:05, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

OK. WHen does he date this split in Vistula region to ? And how did he arrive at that conclusion ? Slovenski Volk (talk) 05:13, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that. So, from what I discern:

• Hg I arrives in Europe from Near East in Upper Palaeolithic, possibly already as several different sub-clades, or possibly borke up in the Balkans, i.e: I2a1 (P 37), I1, I2c, I2a2; and they disperse throughout Europe and amplify to various extents during/ after LGM
• P 37 (I2a1) has several offshoots

- M 26 - in SW Europe, including Sardinia (possibly constituted a minor element in the Franco-Cantabrian ice-age refuge)

- M 233 to western Europe

- M 423: which splits around Vistula to Isles and Dinaric major sub-groups

• I1 seems to have stayed 'together' more splitting into different sub-clades rather later c.f. I2

• I2a2 (M223) also appears to have expanded around northern/ central Europe.

However, by Ken;s admission, his theories are just 'brainstorming'. If he wants to commit to them, he needs to publish them properly. We need to get this article New Phylogenetic Relationships for Y-chromosome Haplogroup I: Reappraising its Phylogeography and Prehistory. Published in 2007 by Underhill, it has new data on Hg I. Its published in a book. One of the libraries in Sydney has it, ill try getting it in the next couple of weeks

I think that most clades which dispersed from Balkans have something to do with the Balkan Neolithic. As I read more and more archaeology, the central-eastern Balkans in Neolithic was a "flourishing; civilization. It had villages bigger than in Mesopotamia ! It was rich, cultured and densely populated. If there was ever an event which populated Europe, it was this Slovenski Volk (talk) 10:29, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Its definitely getting very interesting, not only Hg I, but R1b, R1a, E3b, J2 - all the Hgs found in Europe are getting greater clarity, thus revealing far more complex, layered demographic history. The only problem lies in the fact that age estimates continue to vary widely, and most likely, continue to do so. This makes it pin-pointing them to this or that event still very tenuous. Slovenski Volk (talk) 10:41, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

The major problem with that theory, however, is that diversity of Hg I appears to be greatest in Dalmatia, therefor must be oldest there. ALso , the Slavic invasions barely penetrated Dalmatia. They were more focussed on the eastern Balkans. Slovenski Volk (talk) 00:17, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

нашинци. не вашинци

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6gLgcEteGk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.125.226.6 (talk) 14:41, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

You Tube is not a source for Wikipedia. Jingby (talk) 14:51, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

is a personal friendship with that man a sourse? which language they speak in bulgaria? i don't know how to prove but nevertheless they call themselves "nashinci" no matter what you think of do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.125.226.6 (talk) 14:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Personal friends are not reliable source, but Univesity Professors' publications in Academic journals issued by University publishing houses. Jingby (talk) 15:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

so can you give me a sourse in which they say they are not "nashinci"? since you delete like you have the data of the whole world in you... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.125.226.6 (talk) 15:04, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

i guess this is a reliable sourse? prof. dr. Aneta Svetieva? http://www.scribd.com/doc/38609973/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0-%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0-%D0%97%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%BC%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%B8-%D0%B7%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%A2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%88%D0%B8-%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8-%D0%B8-%D0%B4%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B8-%D0%A2%D1%83%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B8-%D0%B2%D0%BE-%D0%A2%D1%83%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.125.226.6 (talk) 15:08, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit War

Can you please explain to me what was wrong with this? Lunch for Two (talk) 13:05, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

You can explain the situation, but not delete referenced text. For example: The Great Powers were unhappy with this extension of Russian power on the Balkans, and Serbia feared the establishment of Greater Bulgaria would harm their interests in the Ottoman heritage. This prompted them to obtain a revision of the Threaty of San Stefano through the Treaty of Berlin in the same year. Jingby (talk) 13:19, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

You know very well I removed it the first time. Providing a source does not make things immune from removal. Is it fine if I revert now? Lunch for Two (talk) 13:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

What is it that you have reverted the Kanchov reference? Thanks. Lunch for Two (talk) 12:43, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

"...Whether we call ourselves Bulgarians or Macedonians, we have always maintained a separate, unified and different from the Serbs ethnicity, with Bulgarian consciousness"... Retrived from "Народността на македонците", К. П. Мисирков, в-к "20-ти Юлии", бр. 5, 11 Май 1924. Jingby (talk) 13:11, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Thats nice. I am talking about Kanchov not Misirkov. What is your objection? Why should this not be mentioned? Lunch for Two (talk) 14:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Dialogue

I urge to participate in dialogur before simply conducting mass reverts on my edits. Dialogue and consensus was achieved at Ethnic Macedonians between myself and another user, you chose Not to participate despite being the reverting editor (who reverted based on no consensus, then chose not to participate when consensus was being made). I urge you to show good faith and participate in discussions rather than simply doing "hit and runs" on article. Lunch for Two (talk) 12:09, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

The dialogue must to predict your mass changes (edits). Not vice versa. Jingby (talk) 13:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

How about a friendly round of relationship counseling for the two of you, over at WP:AE? Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:33, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Couple of things about your most recent revert [1]: (1) You are just at 3RR now, and with your block history, I wouldn't rely on not getting blocked even below this if this goes to AE, if I were you. Better revert yourself. (2) My argument stands: the preceding sentence speaks of estimates "possibly 10,000 to 30,000"; your sentence quotes an estimate (not a "count" as you wrongly said in your edit summary) at approximately 10,000; that is within the range of the previous sentence, so it does not contradict it (in fact, the figure of 10,000 probably goes back to the same ultimate source, via Danforth, in both references). (3) My other argument also stands: your wording about "as per leading experts" is ridiculous peacock language. (4) Can you please finally get rid of this extremely annoying habit of inundating articles with rows of more and more footnotes for the same thing? It's this kind of behaviour that still marks you as being the inveterate POV pusher you've always been. Whenever I see a row of more than three footnotes on a single sentence, I know an article has been butchered by agenda editors. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:20, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

The data I have added is taken from much more reliable sources then the previous one. It differs drastically from the data-number of Slavic-speakers pointed in previous claims. There is no reason for self-correction, or revert. Jingby (talk) 17:31, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Is it really beyond your powers to see that "10,000" is within the range of "10,000–30,000"?? Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:38, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Check here, please. The number is 10,000.The Macedonian conflict: ethnic nationalism in a transnational world, Loring M. Danforth, Princeton University Press, 1997, ISBN 0691043566, p. 78.

Have you still not grasped the point that "10,000" is within the range of "10,000–30,000"?? Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:47, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

No, I did not understand you. Check here, please. The total estimate ranges from 10,000: [2], [3], [4] and so on. Jingby (talk) 18:03, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Right, you broke 3RR now. I'm not going to bother with WP:AN3, I'm going straight to WP:AE. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:25, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Nowadays you have provoked me with your biased edits. I know your aim was to blocke me. That will change nothing. I am right on the basis of the added reliable University sources. You are wrong by this case. Regards. Jingby (talk) 18:33, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

no one will buy your nationalistic crap about gorani people. they call themselves "nashinci" and their language "nashinski". so whatever you achieve, it's inside these pages, not in the field where it matters wp:ani . 79.125.227.60 (talk) 21:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the compliment dear IP-sock of a blocked User. Jingby (talk) 06:58, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi

Hi, Jingiby. I would like to take your attention at Bulgarians article where I already done my third revert on that disruption http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bulgarians&action=historysubmit&diff=447496238&oldid=447400161 . You see the user Lunch for Two is removing mass of sources and information there as in the most articles he edited and I would be happy if you support me and back the longstanding version before the disruption. Of the drastic removal - briefly the second estimate for Bulgaria was removed without any explonation neither in the edit summary or in the talk page, reliable sources from MFA which give present-day numbers and even official data (see the source- official information of Bulgarian citizens in FYROM) were deleted with the POV that censuses before 10-20 years are the only reliable sources. For example the 2001 census in Hungary counted about 1,000 Bulgarians and the present-day number of MFA is 5,000 by both Bulgarian and Hungarian authorities and so he removed the second number claiming it is not reliable and taking only the 2001 census, the same has been done in mass of countries including USA and Canada where the immigrants growed much more significantly than Hungary. Such large removal of reliable sources should not be left not only in Bulgarians but in any other article the user edits. 213.226.17.10 (talk) 18:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

There are some Bulgarian sources which say there are 1,500,000 Bulgarians in Macedonia and 1,000,000 in Greece. IP, should we also use these? I meean, after all, these can also be sourced. Lunch for Two (talk) 00:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

WP:AE#Jingiby

You get into a lot of disputes in the area of Macedonia/Bulgaria, and you never seem to wait for a consensus on the talk page before reverting. This is the only thing that people are going to remember about you unless you can make a convincing case for yourself at WP:AE#Jingiby. Please try to be rational there. It would help if you can diagnose what caused you to be blocked so many times in the past, so you can ensure us that these problems are behind you. Your comment here seems frivolous and unhelpful. EdJohnston (talk) 18:07, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

You are right, except for my comment. I meant that the time changes me in a positive sense. At least, I hope. Regards. Jingby (talk) 18:13, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Please see the result of this AE request here. We are relying on the assurance of better behavior that you gave here. Be aware that any admin may issue a sanction under WP:ARBMAC without making a new request at Arbitration Enforcement if they perceive that your editing in the area of Macedonia and Bulgaria is inappropriate. Let me know if you have any questions. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 04:10, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! Jingby (talk) 04:41, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization

Hello Jingiby. This article is on my watch list due to some past IP vandalism. Regarding this edit. I see that you tried to insert the same material in May but it was reverted. This is the kind of issue that you you should consider proposing on the talk page for a discussion. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 19:51, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

OK! Jingby (talk) 06:25, 8 September 2011 (UTC)