Talk:Lord's Resistance Army

Symbols

Have you encountered any symbols of the LRA?--TheFEARgod (Ч) 17:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I haven't. - BanyanTree 22:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

See here.--Pharos (talk) 01:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The flag was based in a photo, but later was know that wasn't the LRA flag.--83.56.236.10 (talk) 18:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Christianity or synchretism

I have read a few articles in Swedish papers saying that LRA should rather be seen as a synchretistic movement, than a Christian one. Their ideas are highly unorthodox (to say the least) and a mixture of Christianity, Islam and Paganism. I will try to find a good source.--itpastorn (talk) 13:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree, please do - only animism would probably be a more accurate word than paganism, which has never really meant anything more than "thing we don't approve of." 147.9.226.163 (talk) 06:24, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Some people have apparently called this a kind of christian islam ; it would be interesting to source scientific information about eventual comparisons between the resistance army and the early form of islam under muhammad. 69.157.229.153 (talk) 21:58, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I do not believe that the LRA's Ten Commandments are the same as the ones that everyone else knows about. I believe that part of their's refer to not eating a chicken with certain colored feathers, not using trails or roads and not ridding bicycles. I am not sure of this however and can not find any references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.217.128 (talk) 00:40, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Animism and paganism are distinct. Each has a distinct meaning. Animism doesn't even come close to explaining the LRA. The main indicators of paganism (drunkenness, sex-with-children, bestiality) are not demonstrated to date. Of the three suggestions, synchretistic is the best match so far, but more info needed. The LRA needs a PR department. Bushcutter (talk) 16:59, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

PAGANISM DOES NOT MEAN DRUNKENNESS, SEX WITH CHILDREN OR BESTIALITY. I SUGGEST THAT YOU CHECK THE FACTS BEFORE YOU GO MOUTHING OFF LIKE THAT ON SUCH A FOURM. ASK YOURSELF HOW YOU ARE PROMOTING PEACE IN YOUR OWN HEAD.

You're never going to get Wikipedia to change the label from "Christian" it goes along perfectly with their bias. You'll notice they ask for "credible" sources that do not label the LRA as Christian. That's all well and good, but who defines "credible"? Wikipedia does and it's all rather subjective isn't it? They can't call Islamic terrorists, Islamic terrorists but they can call a group thats clearly multi-religious "Christian". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.88.74.117 (talk) 09:32, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Paranoia, paranoia, everybody's tryin'a get me. See Islamic terrorism. 68.227.169.133 (talk) 13:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I cannot abide by the practice of defining a group in an encyclopedia by what they call themselves. That is an utterly incoherent approach to knowledge. If I call myself the President of the United States, my wikipedia page shouldn't call me "The President of the United States". Adding the qualifier "self proclaimed..." is acceptable, but rather pointless as a characterization. Such a statement would be a fact of the matter. State the facts of the matter in the body of the subject. "Such n such stated they are Christian...". That's a fact. But do not apply the label Christian in the opening description, as it would be more appropriate to use a hundred different adjectives. The use of "Christian" does not help the cause of knowledge, it distracts from it by hopelessly splintering a subject. A better approach would be to construct an adjective that inheres the most predominant aspects of group behaviour in the LRA. If we look at the behaviour of Christ, we don't see atrocities. I am sorry that people feel strongly that they should get to conveniently use self-identification when it suits a personal or political agenda of smearing a group of people like Muslims or Christians. A useful approach to knowledge is to classify by type, not to identify with whatever a person wants to call themselves. As of this writing, the opening description says "sectarian, guerrilla army". That is a very factual description. ...though the use of "sectarian" is rather redundant, since it doesn't seem to indicate what kind of sect is referred to and most human behaviour can be identified as "sectarian". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.65.79.196 (talk) 21:12, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

We're not calling the LRA Christians simply because that's what they choose to call themselves. We're using the word Christian because plenty of reliable sources use it.[1] If we only used the word to refer to people who behaved like Christ, there'd be precious few Christians in our articles. In any case, it's not our business to decide who's a Christian and who's not: our business is to summarise what our sources say.

If you want to argue that the LRA aren't a Christian group, find a reliable, published source that says so and we can work it into the article. But it would be absurd to remove all mention of Christianity, since the LRA's stated aim is to impose a Christian theocracy in Uganda (albeit an ugly, fringe version of Christianity).

I don't see how anyone here is trying to smear Christianity. I think most of our readers are mature enough to understand that every large religion has its share of psychopaths. It's ridiculous to suggest that fundamentalist Christians never commit atrocities, or that we should only use the word to refer to people we like. Polemarchus (talk) 17:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

You are using a completely different standard for knowledge than I am. I never said we don't discuss the connotations of Christianity in regards to the LRA. I said that using it as a primary adjective is misleading. Since these primary adjectives are a strong measure of how we relate subjects in terms of our broader knowledge, they should hopefully provide meaningful markers. The use of "Christian" to primarily describe the LRA is inappropriate, because the facet of "Christianity" that it represents is so marginal.

This is an extremely important aspect of epistemology and I could care less if a lot of people would rather see "Christianity" used as a primary adjective for the simple reason that lots of other people share that preference. This isn't a popularity contest. That kind of knowledge is incoherent, emotional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.136.62 (talk) 22:08, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

a source would be the bible a christian is some one who follows Christ the lra is no way christian i can call myself a monkey and doesnt make it true just cause i said it i would have to have attributes that a monkey has to make it true lra is no way christian no matter what they say ...........................

By that argument, Wikipedia couldn't say that George W. Bush is a Christian, since after 9/11 he didn't "turn the other cheek" as Jesus instructed, but instead launched two wars that resulted in thousands of deaths. Is that what Jesus would have done?

Anyway, there are plenty of reliable sources that refer to the LRA as being Christian:

• " the Lord's Resistance Army is a group of militant Christian fundamentalists" The scars of death: children abducted by the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda‎ - Page 61
• "the cuting off of people's lips, ears, or arms by the Christian fundamentalist Lord's Resistance Army represent either a return to exceptionally medieval violence or something new" The arms dynamic in world politics page 148p

• "In order to explain the conept of the Holy Trinity, Christian priests introduced a new concept, tipu maleng, the Christian version of the Holy Spirit." and "his church is decorated with an eclectic gathering of Christian and Acholi symbols" and "Kony can be defined as an amalgamation of social functions. He defines himself as the mouthpiece of God, reinforcing the Ten Commandments and acting as a political oracle in a time of profound crisis introduced by foreign forces. He is not only the spokesman of the Christian God..." Kony's message: A new Koine? The Lord's Resistance Army in northern Uganda, African Affairs

• "Kony's LRA is an outgrowth of the Holy Spirit Movement, a Christian cult that ravaged northern Uganda in the late 1980s." Los Angeles Times

• "An extreme and violent Christian cult, the Holy Spirit Movement, sprang up in poor northern Uganda in the late 1980s. Many hundreds of believers died in suicidal attacks, convinced that magic oil would protect them from the soldiers' bullets. Its successor, the Lord's Resistance Army, is still pursuing a guerrilla war. It claims it wants to rule the country on the basis of the Biblical Ten Commandments" Center for studies on new religions

• "The former Catholic altar boy Joseph Kony, head of the Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), is generally seen as a Christian madman who communicates with spirits and wants to turn Uganda into a theocratic state based on the Ten Commandments." The Times

• "Christian Rebels Wage a War of Terror in Uganda" The New York Times

• "The Christian guerrilla army's aim is to establish a theocratic state based on the Ten Commandments" The Guardian

• "More than 25,000 children have been abducted to serve the rebel army -- motivated by a fanatical Christian doctrine -- as foot soldiers and sex slaves." The Washington Post

Robert Tyson (talk) 15:35, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

The use of the word "Christian" to describe this group is HIGHLY misleading. For naive readers, they can't innately know the incredible unorthodoxy of this terrorist group. Put the politics aside people and get back to helpful information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.103.240.185 (talk) 06:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Islam

The LRA identifies itself as a Christian organization, as do the overwhelming majority of reputable information sources. Whether they're perceived as following the true tenets of Christianity or not is irrelevant. The claim that the LRA incorporates "Islamic" elements into its philosophy is a bit ridiculous (hence my edit), as I've yet to see a reliable source make this claim and specify exactly which Islamic teachings the group espouses. Some Christians here seem to be interested in making it seem as if the LRA is not ostensibly Christian simply because they disagree with the LRA. I believe that al-Qaeda's philosophy violates the tenets of Islam, but I accept that they're an ostensibly Islamic terrorist group. Christians need to learn to do the same with the LRA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.187.0.71 (talk) 01:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

"Kony blended together Christianity, Islam, and witchcraft into a bizarre mystical foundation for his movement."

"[Joseph Kony's] paymasters and armorers are the cynical Muslims of the Sudanese regime, who use him to make trouble for the government of Uganda, which has in turn supported rebel groups in Sudan. In an apparent reward for this support, Kony at one stage began denouncing the keeping and feeding of pigs."

"After peace talks between the LRA and the government collapsed at the end of 1993, the Sudanese government in Khartoum embraced Kony's band as a proxy force, prompting him to add a smattering of Islam to his mysticism to please his new allies."

"At one stage, its leader and prophet Joseph Kony was said to have converted to Islam: he forbade his fighters to eat pork and to work on Friday." (note: according to other sources, Kony reportedly denies converting)

"A report by World Vision International says Kony's spiritualism blends elements of Christianity, Islam and traditional Acholi beliefs to psychologically enslave abducted children and instil fear in local villagers."

"Kony, an enigmatic, unschooled man from the regional town of Gulu, Uganda, simultaneously believes in Christianity, Islam, witchcraft and magic."

"Any resemblance to these religions is superficial: While the army observes rituals such as praying the rosary and bowing toward Mecca, there is no prescribed theology in the conventional sense. Kony's beliefs are a haphazard mix from the Bible and the Qur'an, tailored around his wishful thinking, personal desires, and practical needs of the moment."

"Like Muhammad, Kony was also a polygamist. He prayed to the God of the Christians on Sundays reciting the Rosary and quoting the Bible; but on Fridays he performed the Islamic Al-Jummah prayer. He celebrated Christmas, but he also fasted for 30 days during Ramadan and prohibited the consumption of pork."

There appears to be a substantial number of reliable sources that establish some form of an Islamic connection. The most prominent concrete claims that I have seen so far are the observation of Qiblah, Jumu'ah, and Ramadan; contempt for swine; and ceremonial adornment of traditional Islamic vestments. Several articles attribute these beliefs to the LRA-Sudanese alliance. Kony was rumored to have converted to Islam during this time period, but has apparently denied any such conversion.   — C M B J   04:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Casino Royale (2006 Film)

The LRA was featured in the beginning of the film. Should we mention that on this page? Risico001 (talk) 01:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose the merging of Lord's Resistance Army and Lord's Resistance Army insurgency. Although I don't see any discussions on these talk pages preceding the splitting of those two articles, I can understand the reason why it was done. Splitting the army from their activities is a good idea in many cases, especially in such cases where there is ample information on the structure of the army, its leaders, ideologies, strategies, logistics, etc.

We (and the references we source, and unless we are personally acquainted with Kony) know almost nothing about the LRA except their activities. The article on the insurgency needs the information about the army to be coherent. Information about the insurgency will constantly be added to the article about the army, because that is the first article people access – as, unless one is acquainted with the structure of these LRA articles on Wikipedia, one will certainly not figure out that the main article on the subject (the insurgency) is a sub-article (as is the case is now). There are already a number of sub-articles on LRA pertaining to particular issues, further complicating it for the reader. The main article could contain what is known about the LRA, with a chronology of their activities – organised as it was when this became a featured article (things do not necessarily get better because one changes them).

If we are not to maintain two near-duplicate articles, there will almost always be a tag of war about what information belongs to which article (that we have not had a serious edit war here is merely because few people edit these articles). I am willing to merge the two articles without loosing any substantial information from either.

Please give your opinion. I prefer not to spend time copyediting and merging, to then having to quarrel and edit war with someone. --Ezeu (talk) 16:11, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

See User talk:BanyanTree/Archive 14#Question and Talk:Lord's Resistance Army insurgency#Conflict page for background discussion on the split. TheFEARgod and Nightstallion came up with the split and are therefore the most likely to object, if you want to run it by them.

I've been worn down by years of dealing with editors whose only interest in the article is arguing if the LRA is Christian or Muslim, and how Christian or Muslim it is, and if it is also therefore a Christian or Muslim terrorist organization, and what categories should apply in those cases, so I don't care enough to get involved. It wouldn't be so bad if these didn't comprise the majority of editors making content changes to the article. I had broken out the time period subpages many years ago in the interests of keeping the main page pithy, but which had the unintended effect of raising of the profile of the 'Christian v Muslim' debate. I am fine with all of the changes you propose.

Let me know if you need me to track down refs or something as you merge. Also, I have started a draft for Acholi religion at a user subpage, which will be helpful in explaining the whole spirit possession/religious syncretism thing and will, at my current rate of work, be ready in a month or two. ;) - BanyanTree 04:00, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

we cannot merge a war article with a group article, the conflict would lose visibility with the merger. I would like to leave it as it's now. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 09:20, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure I like the idea, either, but I see why you propose this; nonetheless, I'd prefer to have separate articles on the group and its activities, even if that would leave the group with a very small article. —Nightstallion 14:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Dr. Obita

I am trying to get Dr Obitas contacts for an old friend of his please contact or show his contacts on this page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.33.200.46 (talk) 17:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

The Comboni Missionaries today called upon the governments of the United States and Canada to take action that will encourage an end to the warfare that has ravaged the lives of the Christian population of northern Uganda. In this war, an insurgent group calling itself the Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) killed and disfigured innocent people by the tens of thousands, caused the displacement of 1.5 million refugees, and abducted more than 20,000 children for use as child soldiers and sex slaves. “For the past two decades,” the resolution stated, the LRA has employed “hellishly barbaric tactics against the civilian population of northern Uganda, principally the Acholi people.” Using statistics cited by the United Nations News Service, the resolution said, “This insurgency has driven approximately 1.5 million people into displacement camps where they live in extreme deprivation, entirely dependent upon relief for survival ... “In its oppression of this almost uniformly Christian population, the LRA has received support from the ruling National Islamic Front in Sudan; and the LRA has abducted as many as 20,000 children for use as child soldiers and sex slaves, with children making up at least 80 percent of its insurgent force.”.... http://allafrica.com/stories/200404260285.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.202.109.28 (talk) 15:17, 5 June 2010 (UTC)