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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by B. Wolterding (talk | contribs) at 18:21, 18 October 2009 (→‎Problem with collapsible sections: tnx). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bugs and feature requests should be made at the BugZilla.

Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk.

Special:Myskin.js/.css ?

Now that we have a bunch of editors who are using vector, and, I assume there are also those of us who have grown accustomed to monobook and won't be changing, what about some kind of way to direct a user to Special:Mypage/(myskin).js or .css ? It would make it a lot easier to explain to newer and less technically-inclined users how to install stuff into their .js and .css pages. –xenotalk 18:11, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, but I don't think anyone else heard. Maybe file a bug (except nobody finds those... *sigh*) 09:27, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Got an edit conflict with myself when trying to fix the erroneous signature of that post. Hmph. — This, that, and the other [talk] 09:39, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Much of the stuff that goes on these pages is skin-dependent, so you would end up with just one more place to add (and to forget) code. Cacycle (talk) 13:15, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I had conceived that the shortcut would lead them to whatever skin they have set in their prefs. –xenotalk 13:20, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If we had a new parser function {{SKIN}} we could simple create a template for that... Cacycle (talk) 13:51, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The devs are unlikely to implement a parser function that would change its value based on skin, as that would break the caching system. A saner system would be a special page i.e. "Special:MySkinPage" or some such, and in the meantime an admin can use CSS display code across the sitewide skin code pages to create a template for everyone. {{Nihiltres|talk|edits}} 15:52, 13 October 2009 (UTC) (iPod edit)[reply]
It might be a bit more straight forward to use a site JavaScript enhanced template in the meantime. Should somebody propose the Special:MySkinPage" idea? Cacycle (talk) 21:49, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Could always ask for global.js/.css to work in userspace across all skins instead of Special:MySkinPage -- WOSlinker (talk) 18:38, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's bugzilla:10183, but many scripts only work in certain skins. Mr.Z-man 18:46, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a short script that dynamically replaces Special:MySkin.js links with Special:MyPage/skin.js links (with "skin" being the current skin of the user): User:Cacycle/myskinify.js (install using "importScript('User:Cacycle/myskinify.js');"). It does the same to .css links. It works under all skins and with the current versions of Firefox, Chrome, Opera, and IE. The execution time should be negligible and I do not think it would interact with any existing script or gadget. I propose to add this (or something similar) to the common.js. Cacycle (talk) 04:06, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a short notice to MediaWiki_talk:Common.js. Cacycle (talk) 03:10, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Searching among titles of deleted pages or deleted content

Isn't there a - amenable - way to search among titles of deleted pages, or deleted content ? Special:Undelete allows only to list pages starting with a given prefix. For example, it would have been useful for the subject of the previous thread, and I had other reasons to search those for maintenance. Cenarium (talk) 00:17, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid not at the moment unless there's a toolserver tool which can do it. (Offhand I'm not sure whether that info's available on TS though.) --brion (talk) 19:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Subcat won't show up

Why won't this category:
Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Nashville, Tennessee
show up as a subcategory of:
Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Tennessee
? Kaldari (talk) 19:46, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It does, but not how you would expect. For some reason, when the category contains many articles so that it has to use pages, it spreads also subcategories among these pages. The subcategory you mentioned can seen at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Wikipedia_requested_photographs_in_Tennessee&from=Stones+River. Svick (talk) 19:56, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Touring Members section

Why don't we have a touring members section as part of the infobox? In addition to members and former members, I think it would be good to have a Touring members section for band pages; it can help clear the air about who contributed in the studio, who was there for the tour. A band's live history is just as important for fans as their recording history is; I think this section could be beneficial for properly representing everyone who contributed to a band.

You can't put everything into an infobox :D. Just write some prose about it in the article itself. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:29, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Missing revision content on Magic Knight Rayearth

Can anyone tell me why the content for several revisions from late 2004/early 2005 are missing on Magic Knight Rayearth? For example: 27 December 2004, 28 January 2005[1], 7 February 2005[2][3], 20 February 2005, and so on. The latest I've found is one from 6 May 2005. I know many early diffs are missing entirely, but I always thought that was constrained to diffs from 2001 and early 2002, and I've never heard of an edit's metadata being kept while its content was deleted, except maybe in some isolated incidents relating to short-lived bugs... Thoughts? 「ダイノガイ千？！」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 21:33, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is Template:Bug. Svick (talk) 21:51, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Aah, that looks like it, thanks for the pointer. =) 「ダイノガイ千？！」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 21:55, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

revision history oddities

I've noticed some strange things that I have never been able to explain:

  1. On February 20, 2005, my friend Mwl (talk · contribs) corrected some spelling on Cedric Diggory, but it seems to show him blanking the page. The next few edits all appear to be null edits. However, appeared to return to normal when Martinman11 (talk · contribs) added an image to the article. A comparison of the revision prior to the one made by Mwl and the edit by Martinman11 shows that the changes indicated in the edit summaries are indeed valid. There is nothing in the article's deletion log, and I don't think the oversight feature is supposed to blank pages.
  2. On May 14, 2005, Dripping Dildo (talk · contribs) vandalized the {{edit}} template, which was later reverted by Xezbeth (talk · contribs). However, the revision history shows that the revert happened seven minutes before the vandalism happened.

Does anyone know what might have caused these oddities? --Ixfd64 (talk) 01:06, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As discussed in thread right above this one, the first oddity is caused by Template:Bug. I don't know whether the second issue has anything to do with this bug or whether it is something unrelated. Svick (talk) 01:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The second oddity was probably because the server clocks went out of sync. I've never encountered a diff like it before, where the times are relatively close together. I'm used to diffs like this one, which probably happened because a server clock was reset; you can see more examples of that problem at bug 2219 and my subpage about history oddities. Graham87 07:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

edit notice for special:emailuser

Is it possible to add edit notices to special pages?

The reason I ask is that it would be helpful if users emailing user:Oversight and user:Arbitration Committee saw a custom message on Special:EmailUser/Arbitration_Committee along the lines of this.

We could add this to the list of notes on MediaWiki:Emailpagetext, but I doubt people will read that. We could make it blink using a CSS selector for ".page-Special_EmailUser_User_Arbitration_Committee"

Alternatively, it would be good to change MediaWiki:Defemailsubject to something like "Wikipedia email: [change me]". John Vandenberg (chat) 03:23, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I've been thinking about proposing user:Example/Emailnotice subpage for custom per-user messages on Special:EmailUser. It should be possible, the mechanism is the same as I explained here. — AlexSm 03:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
{{FULLPAGENAME}} works on Special:EmailUser, and recognises the subpage as long as it's passed as Special:EmailUser/ExampleUser. So it should be easy to tweak that message to display a custom text for certain users. Happy‑melon 10:08, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Perfect! John Vandenberg (chat) 11:56, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It would still be good if individual users could set up their own personal message as well, though... ╟─TreasuryTag►inspectorate─╢ 18:05, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted pages without deletion logs

I'm resurrecting this thread. Here is an example of a page without a deletion log. I would like to improve that page to a level that would make suitable for Wikipedia, but I can't find the page, nor the deletion log.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Xshell&action=edit&redlink=1

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dandv (talk • contribs) 08:47, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I can see the deletion log (with three entries), both directly on the page you linked and on http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=&page=Xshell and both work even when I'm logged out. Svick (talk) 12:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

CAPTCHA police, I've given all I can

(with apologies to Radiohead) Can we do something about IP's having to type a CAPTCHA every time they add a WP:EL, especially if it's stuck in a ref template? I guess that could be complicated to parse, but couldn't the check be done every tenth time and still discourage spambots? I've typed so many now (since I ref the heck out of everything, usually with {{cite web}}) I've actually reached the end of the list and started back around again at the beginning. -- 209.6.238.201 (talk) 10:14, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Simpler solution: WP:SIGNUP. Rd232 talk 10:21, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Gee... you'd never make it in the quality assurance department, buddy. I'm just letting you techheads know this eventually becomes a PITA for the casual/IP editor, and there should be a better way to separate the wheat from the chaff. (And yes, I know that Seigenthalerite cultists believe that every time someone signs up an "angle gets its wingdings", but have some respect for other faiths.) -- 209.6.238.201 (talk) 11:05, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Gee, if I worked in a quality assurance department I'd be getting paid to be nice... as it is, I just wanted to point out an easy alternative to what you suggest, which raises a whole bunch of problems. If someone wants to get into those, fine, but I suspect the tradeoff between making things easier for spammers and for casual users may be right as it is. PS The EL CAPTCHA message currently doesn't point out that signing up for an account avoids that CAPTCHA. That may be deliberate, though. Rd232 talk 12:47, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've got a better idea, why not just add the ability for the edit filter to trigger them instead as an action? ViperSnake151  Talk  12:01, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If we assume the edits of spambots are evenly distributed with all the other IP edits, checking on every tenth edit will have the effect of letting 90% of the currently-blocked spam through. The casual IP editor typically doesn't "ref the heck out of everything." Mr.Z-man 16:05, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I assume 209 meant every tenth edit per IP address. But that adds the additional hurdle of counting. --King Öomie 17:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If the spambots keep trying (which they certainly would if we put in such a system), the effect would be pretty much the same. Mr.Z-man 18:01, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Overlapping section headers in vector skin

I noticed today that the lines underneath the section headers in the Vector skin are overlapping some content for me ([4] is a snapshot from the article Halting problem). Does this happen for anyone else? My browser is Firefox 3.5.3 on Linux. — Carl (CBM · talk) 11:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That was actually the correct rendering for what was there: the line under the header is simply the bottom border of the header element, and as a block element it is supposed to continue under the float. Our floated images have a background color set on their containing div to cover that up, but the floated table in that article did not do so (until someone changed it just now) so the line underneath showed through the transparent background. Anomie⚔ 12:25, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but there must be hundreds of floated tables on WP. Is there any sort of global fix? — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:32, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)I don't think this is a widespread problem, because tables aren't usually floated with their descriptions on Wikipedia (and I'm not sure this one should either). I fixed that article by setting white background color to the floated <div>. Svick (talk) 12:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And I don't think this could be fixed globally for this kind of floated tables. Svick (talk) 12:40, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Underlining with dots

I don't know whether this is a technical or a policy issue, so I have posted it on both Village Pumps.

Within the last 24 hours, seemingly random underlining with dots has appeared all over Wikipedia. (Is there a name for it?) In my opinion it destroys the readability of Wikipedia articles. It makes words and phrases jump off the page. As far as I can tell, it serves no useful purpose at all, but if people really like the extra linking function there's got to be a less annoying way to mark the links. Can we revert back to yesterday on this thing? HowardMorland (talk) 17:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like context ad-links shoehorned into Wikipedia articles by adware on your computer, actually. --King Öomie 17:53, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Never mind. It seemed to go away on its own. It wasn't there the next time I logged on. Then it was again; then it wasn't. When it was happening, it would offer links to other things on the web with similar names, including Wikipedia articles. Maybe it was just my computer. I was using the Firefox browser. HowardMorland (talk) 18:04, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Line numbers on pages

Whenever you look at an edit by another user you get a line number as part of the display of the actual edit at the top of the page. It would be nice to be able to use this information to go down the page so you can find and see the actual view of the article. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT PRAISE 17:16, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Those line 24 numbers only apply to a fixed-width version of the page. 25 The rendered display has a dynamic width that accomidates various browser sizes, 26 so you'd end up with numbers that either didn't match up with 27 the diff version, or something like the numbering in this post. 28 --King Öomie 17:51, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, those are (more or less) paragraph numbers. Most of the time, it would be fairly easy to link from the diff to the point in the article, but the exceptions are what makes it difficult. Every time you hit "enter" the software sees a new paragraph, so something like an infobox would be seen as 20+ paragraphs, none of which actually show up in the final article. --Carnildo (talk) 20:40, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Named parameters in #expr

Do named parameters not work with #expr? For instance, take the code {{#expr:{{{year}}}+1}}. If year was 1000, it should return 1001. It works if you do not use a named parameter like this: {{#expr:{{{1}}}+1}}. Unfortunately, I have to use a named parameter as I'm trying to convert an existing template to a new format.—NMajdan•talk 19:45, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It works for me. User:PrimeHunter/sandbox3 currently contains {{#expr:{{{year}}}+1}}. {{User:PrimeHunter/sandbox3|year=1000}} gives Lead

Section 1

Section 1 text.

Section 2

Section 2 start.


label start

1:

foo:

label end


Section 2 end. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, don't know what I was doing, but yeah, it is working. But, another question. How can I do this (which really is what I was originally going for): {{#expr:{{{1|year}}}+1}}? My ultimate goal is to do away with the year parameter, but for legacy purposes it needs to stay for now. So, I need it to default to the named-parameter if a non-named parameter is not used. My testing is here and here.—NMajdan•talk 20:20, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You need the braces around "year", like this: {{#expr:{{{1|{{{year}}}}}}+1}} Anomie⚔ 20:28, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That did it. Thanks!—NMajdan•talk 21:01, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

stats.grok.se question

When counting the number of hits to a page that has been renamed/moved, should I count the stats for the old page *and* the new page? Or, does a redirect automatically increment the number of hits to both pages? Take for example Wikipedia:WikiProject Koei Warriors Games which was renamed/moved in February. The old link had more hits in April than the new link, which seems weird to me, since visitors to the old page should automatically be redirected to the new page. SharkD (talk) 00:40, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redirects are counted separately to non-redirect pages. So to find the number of hits to a page that has been moved, add the number of hits for the new page title to the number of hits for the old page title. Graham87 08:00, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If a person were to then click a link on the page edit it, the new page would then also get hit, right? SharkD (talk) 03:46, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, after a person edits a page, they get taken to the page they were editing directly (i.e. without the redirect). Graham87 05:26, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why so many changes to the sidebar?

Every now and then, the sidebar gets changed, with contents added, removed or changed. Some people could think this doesn't bother anyone, but there are people like me who have defined many things in the personal monobook.css page, and every time something gets changed, everything is screwed up.

I'm getting really annoyed of this. I'd feel much better if this changes were kept to a bare minimum, or at least if these changes were well documented. Sorry if I sound rude, I don't want to, I just would thank if someone gives me some answer, or helps me find how can I track the changes and properly maintain, with little effort, my css. - Keta (talk) 11:40, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I hadn't noticed, though you could watchlist MediaWiki:Sidebar, which generates the sidebar. I believe the toolbox pane and stuff below that are generated purely by the software; I don't know a way to monitor them. • Anakin (talk) 06:27, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Searching for characters

I can no longer search for individual characters. I tried typing in "|", assuming it would redirect me to the actual article (vertical bar), but instead I got a page saying that no results were found. Huh?? Surely "|" is used somewhere on Wikipedia... what's the deal? --Cryptic C62 · Talk 00:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (technical restrictions)#Forbidden characters says "|" can never be used in page titles so no redirect can be created for it. Some special characters like @ have redirects but as far as I know, it has never been possible to search for pages containing them. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:47, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeap! Just go here. ~~×α£đ~~es 00:53, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ship project infobox category.

I'm not sure if the ships template would need altering but please see Template_talk:WikiProject_Ships#incomplete_B-Class_checklists if you can assist in making this happen; thanks. --Brad (talk) 00:38, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Replied there, but I'm not sure what it has to do with infoboxes. :S PC78 (talk) 15:04, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Main Page Tab

Dear all, I am from Bengali Wikipedia. One small thinks I want to know, how do you create the Tab name of Main Page as "Main Page". If you go to main page of this wiki you can see top first tab called "Main Page". I also send a bug Template:Bug. But they still now give me not any resolution.- Jayanta Nath (Talk|Contrb) 10:03, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's done with a JavaScript override in MediaWiki:Common.js. Scroll down to the section "Main Page layout fixes". Copy that and edit the page names. • Anakin (talk) 10:47, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide a User-Agent header

The problem (webserver saying "Please provide a User-Agent header" instead of serving the page) happens only with some URLs (example: [5]). It makes wikipedia stand out as annoying for users who don't normally send the header. I hope this behavior serves a purpose (like, keeping out a bot operated by someone who is smart enough to operate a bot but not smart enough to forge the header). 92.225.64.14 (talk) 13:35, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Image as background?

Hi; is it possible to set an image as the background to a page (either tiled or stretched) or a box or something? Thanks! ╟─TreasuryTag►Tellers' wands─╢ 13:56, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why ever would you want to? OrangeDog (talk • edits) 14:08, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps for my userspace? ╟─TreasuryTag►Africa, Asia and the UN─╢ 14:09, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, alright. A user script would be able to modify the <body> tag to include an image. OrangeDog (talk • edits) 14:14, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

But surely if I want it to show up for everyone viewing the page, it would need to be in the syntax? ╟─TreasuryTag►constabulary─╢ 14:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. I'm not sure how you add scripts or stylesheets for everyone. OrangeDog (talk • edits) 14:21, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You don't, without being an admin and editing the site-wide CSS files in the MediaWiki namespace (if you find a way to, please report it to [email protected]). You can do inline styles on a div wrapped around your whole user page, but rules specifying external urls (e.g. images) are automatically filtered out (again, if you find a way around that please report it to [email protected]). Anomie⚔ 16:46, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with collapsible sections

Hi all,

I'm a bit puzzled by a bug report for my bot, where a "collapsible box" mechanism fails. I've set up a test page to that end, on which you can see the problem. Basically, I try to transclude a page into a collapsible box. However, the box - which on other occassions has always worked fine - collapses only the first lines of the transcluded page. What's going wrong here? It might be related to {{PR/header}}, but I have no clue what the exact reason is. Any ideas? --B. Wolterding (talk) 16:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to be fixed with this edit. The problem is that {{PR/header}} is transcluded as "::{{PR/header|...}}". With the newline in the template, the raw HTML ends up as something like "<dl><dd><div>...PR/header...</dd></dl></div>"; either the browser or MediaWiki's tidy interprets that tag soup such that the div at the end of the PR/header template closes the NavContent div. Anomie⚔ 17:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that does the trick. Thanks! --B. Wolterding (talk) 18:21, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template Problem- embedding an image in a tempate- and also coord tag

If anyone has time to pop over to TMtr template example I could do with a little advice, The template {{TMtr}} is set up to generate a for a 11 parameter item, a complicated formatted rendering, as two rows in a table. It works and can be used. While working on the documentation, I attempted to input instances with each parameter on a separate line- this broke the template. I have shown it working and not working in the example. The point is that I don't understand what is causing the problem- and how one must cure it. The cure would achieve stability and provide an interesting line to include in H:T. Its not urgent but if anyone has a moment.... --ClemRutter (talk) 17:22, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You should probably create a subpage for the documentation; otherwise it would be too easy to accidentally break the template itself when trying to edit the documentations, plus having the doc and template on the same page creates a lot of unnecessary code. Intelligentsiumreview 17:30, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, there is a subpage. That is odd... Intelligentsiumreview 17:33, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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