User talk:WesleyDodds

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December 2005 — June 2006 July 2006 — December 2006 January 2007 — April 2007 May 2007 — June 2007

Control

The trailer for Control is on youtube, looks pretty damn good. Reports from early screenings have been very positive; can't wait till summer ends, roll on September and Joy Division mania. Came across a great quote from Mark Smith swiping at JD/NO etc, he was asked about global warming: "I don't think about eco issues too much. A new ice age might be good for the music scene...Give them south Manchester bands someting to really moan about." Roll that man a cigarette. Ceoil 22:42, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't have the book. I had, but others took it. I searched the nearest city yesterday, and it can't be bought for money here. Anyway, if could add what you can it would be great. Here is a random link: [1]. Ceoil 09:24, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Holy christ, but that man is a tool. "Ok everyone, keep it simple". Ceoil 09:52, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sounds good. Footage? Ceoil 22:27, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

If I was to be honest, I don't believe all that stuff abut U2 knew about Joy Division early on, and they were an influence on Boy. No more than I believe that they knew about the Pixies bofore the Pixes hit paydirt. U2 are ok now, and they say the right things; but until 1993 or so; that band were the enemy, and the Pixies support tour was taken on on mgt advice. Ceoil 22:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

That would be fun; in my early days here I created a category for "great lost albums", but it was deleted within days by some passing admin (fair enough I suppose). I was reading back over the 2002 Q review tonight; there are so many back-handed complements - "not of the pub-trashing idiot kind", "at times, an awkward lyricist, who can tie himself up in cosmic knots...But", "the most touching allusion to his own want of articulacy", "Sometimes, there is nothing wrong with being obvious", "they took it as their job, nothing more and nothing less, to cheer the country up". And it still got five stars. Have a look at this and tell me thoes stars weren't paid for. Ceoil 22:28, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I have "From Joy Division to New Order" and the ex-wife's book. I'm bogged down with WB, but hoping to sign that off this weekend, so I'll start work soon. We've had the worst.ever.summer here so far - everybody is wet and pissed off, and I'm listening to a lot of JD - so I'm looking forward to getting stuck in and venting. Ceoil 19:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The Joy division template thing has red links towards "Fractured Box Set | Re-Fractured Box Set | Let The Movie Begin". I never heard of these things. They sound like bootlegs to me - should they be removed, or should I get my credit-card out and head for amazon. Ceoil 20:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative music June 2007 Newsletter

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter Issue 3 - June 2007

"I had a pair of cotton black pants, and I wore them every day for months. And Bill hung them outside the van 'cos they smelled so bad. And they flapped off on the highway. They were the only ones I had." - Michael Stipe Project news Stereolab and Uncle Tupelo reached featured article status in the past month! Well done to Merzbow and Teemu08 respectively. We collaborated on Grant Hart, "Live Forever", Soul Asylum and R.E.M. (band) during the past month. During the month of June, By the Way and OK Computer were promoted to good article status.

New members Riana, Kyjb70 and Scarps joined the alternative music fold during June. Editors User:CloudNine

You are receiving this newsletter because you have signed up for WikiProject Alternative music. If you wish to stop receiving this newsletter, or would like to receive it in a different form, add your name to the appropriate section here. This newsletter was delivered by the automated R Delivery Bot 00:47, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Pearl Jam

I've been going through Pearl Jam and replacing the FiveHorizons.com refs (per Quadzilla99's comments). However, refs 39 and 40 don't seem to appear anywhere else; could you perhaps replace them with more reliable sources if you get the chance? CloudNine 10:20, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I suppose they're admissable if used for what happens in-concert. I'll strike out Quad's comment then. CloudNine 10:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Minneapolis

		The Original Barnstar
		To WesleyDodds, on the occasion of Minneapolis, Minnesota reaching featured article. -Susanlesch 06:11, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Californication

All of your identified problems have been addressed, except for one, which I have explained why in the FAC. If anything else is incorrect, especially with the new material, just point it out. Regards and best wishes, NSR77 ^T_C 15:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Removed. NSR77 ^T_C 23:30, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

When Cobain met Novoselic

Hey Wess, I see you have Come as You Are: The Story of Nirvana, and it's cited in the Nirvana article when it says:

"Cobain and Krist Novoselic met in 1985. Both were fans of The Melvins, and often hung out at the band's practice space. After a couple of false starts..."

Now someone changed the meeting year to 1984. Is this outlined in the book? If this is incorrect, you might want to go and revert it. -- Reaper X 23:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

W. B. Yeats

I'm going to see The Frank and Walters (first two EPS are worth tracking down) on sat night, but a lot of the weekend will be developing the WB "Poetic style" section. The bio is there now, I reckon. Do you think it will be ready for FARC. Ceoil 22:18, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Joy Division

I was thinking the same thing. There isnt a whole lot worth saving. Copy editing what is there does not appeal to me at all. But it's a framework, and its here. I've moved the sources to the talk, and there are many many more. Ceoil 21:54, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Article in Mojo special edition about the making of Unknown Pleasures - Ok, I got to get that. By far my favourite aspect of the album is the production, and I would really like the final article to empasise Hannett's role. The early bootlegs and demos are good, but nothing near the finished product. The snare in "She lost control" in particular, dear god. Ceoil 22:09, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

As a side note, have you any interest in adminship. Your record is clean as a whistle, and you are always balanced, the voice of reason when disputes rear their heads, and have obvious good judgement. I would be happy to make the nomination, and would be confident it would be uncontroversial. The new Editors album is outstanding, bty. Ceoil 22:43, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

No it would not be an issue, because you were level head through out. Adminship is no big deal, but I understand your reluctance; my thought sprung from the fact that you would be suited to mediation, and that you would be an obvious person to handle such disputes. Whatever, to change the topic, for the moment I'm reserving judgement on the interpol album; its so "big", worried that the have done a "Killers" and gone U2. Ceoil 23:12, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

New job? Ceoil 23:16, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I've read four or five UK reviews now, and each one has admitted that the Joy Divison thing is redundant at this stage, and they are a significant band. Which is what they are. Ceoil 23:20, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Let's just say it involves me listening to records and talking to promoters. - In other words you are The Man. ;) Ceoil 23:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

True, but what I like about that band is Kessler, and the bass line of the hitler youth alike bass player (iforgethisname) Ceoil 23:31, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Last.fm? No, but looking at it, looks like a 'recommending' site. Typing in the fall, see what comes up. Ceoil 23:38, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

This is v good. Two new bands so far. Ceoil 23:46, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Recommend heading to amazon and picking up a copy of this. Your going to need it. Ceoil 20:53, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Steal it. It what brothers do, ha ha. Ceoil 21:26, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I have an account with the NYT, so have posted it. I'm on board with the FAR, but its likely that for a few months I will be in Poland, and editing at weekends only. Unless I find a hotel with wireless that is (not so easy there!) I think the prominent bands list should be either deleted or spun out. The Grunge category should cover this, though it currently does not. Amazing that there is a "List of grunge supergroups" cat. Ceoil 22:39, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

The timeline is good, the list not so. I'll Add the grunge cat to each of those band's pages and take it off the main article. Ceoil 23:24, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Have you pinged Mr Geist bty. Ceoil 23:26, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

To to be fair, you have done a little work, and I've done precious little. A bit of momentum is lacking yet. I see that thoes bands above are covered by the awfully titled "Grunge groups" category, so if its ok with you I'll just delete (most are mentioned in the body text anyway). bty, do you know if its more correct to insert punct outside or within quote marks. Ceoil 23:34, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Review of Billy Talent

Hey Wes. Seeing your expertise and talent on improving articles, I was wondering if I could ask you a favour. I have recently made a major revamp to the Billy Talent article, I am trying to really improve it, maybe make it GA status or something. I've put in a request for a peer review, and I haven't had any bites yet. So if you have a few minutes or spare time from your usual tour of alternative articles, could you please take a look over the article and make any points for improvement at the peer review? Anything would be great man. Thanks, cheers. -- Reaper X 00:29, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks alot Wes. Really appreciate it. -- Reaper X 01:09, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey Wes, can you think of any other editors off the top of your head that would bother to give the article a read and gimme some pointers? Besides your comment (which was really helpful btw, thanks again), the review is dead. I'm waiting for a tumbleweed to roll across the screen. -- Reaper X 06:38, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Live Forever

Hi Wesley. Per your request to take a look at "Live Forever", I'll leave some comments on this talk page as concerns the article. LuciferMorgan 12:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

The Music Video

The British video features unusual imagery such as Liam Gallagher sitting on a chair affixed to a wall, and a number of scenes are devoted to the band burying drummer Tony McCarroll alive. Less than a year later McCarroll and the band parted company.

The word "unusual" can be seen as POV in my opinion, and casts judgment upon the video.

Does Liam Gallagher sitting on a chair affixed to a wall have any significance you're aware of? Have Oasis or critics commented anywhere on what statement that specific image is trying to make?

Also, do the number of scenes devoted to burying drummer McCarroll alive have any significance? Are these scenes just coincidental in hindsight, or were Oasis intentionally hinting at their conflict with McCarroll with the video? Any interviewers quizzed the band on this strange coincidence? I'd suspect some interviews soon after his departure may touch upon this. Did the conflict exist at the time of the video's making?

Was / were the video(s) nominated for any awards, or did it / they win any? Did any critics make comments upon the video(s)? That's worth looking into.

Any reason why a different video was made for the US market? Or, if I state the question differently, what was it about the UK video that they felt wouldn't resonate with the US audience? LuciferMorgan 12:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Live

How well has the song gone down live? Does it appear in all setlists including recent ones, or has it been phased out awhile back?

What do Oasis personally think of this song in terms of how they feel performing the song live, and also how they feel it goes down with an audience live?

How has it been critically received live? It's appeared on all official Oasis live videos / DVDs, so what did the critics say about how well (or not well) Oasis performed the song during those concerts? Are there reviews of these DVDs floating around which specifically comment upon "Live Forever" and how it went down? Are there any reviews of other live performances which comment on the song, especially any festival reviews?

All of the above are worth digging into. LuciferMorgan 12:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Lisa Harriton and Official Member of the Smashing Pumpkins

Their official MySpace page lists her as an official band member. She's a band member. How more legitimate can a source get then one of their own websites? Lisa is now an official band member without out a doubt, and there isn't going to be some sort of other confirmation that's more definitive than this. User 10:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

rotation

"we just got the new Editors album" - we? Didn't relaise there was more than one of you ;) But yeah, its great, I've been listening to it all week. Ceoil 21:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I stand by my "killers" assestment of the Interpol album bty, its a bit Eno, but it its a bit great too. Ceoil 21:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

FAR

Grunge music has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. NSR77 ^T_C 17:06, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Didn't find much. Ceoil 21:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for doing some stuff for Dookie. I would greatly like it if it was FA status one day! Though, I need a peer review, which nobody seems to want to do... Xihix 21:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, another fan! Sounds great you have all these sources, it will help dramatically. Also, are radio only singles not counted as singles? I know it didn't have a music video, but I still considered it a single. If it doesn't, we can take it right off. Xihix 22:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Well, it did rank on a few different charts, the band plays it often, and radio stations around my area still play it often, and as you mentioned, it was on the Superhits complication. I'm not sure what to do really, want to get an outside opinion? Or do you just want to keep it? Xihix 23:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright, cool beans. I'm really excited about this! I really don't know how to thank you enough for being willing to help. Thanks a lot man. Xihix 23:42, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Dookie got peer reviewed, here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/Dookie . I'm not sure how to do some of them, such as the Basket Case sourcing, to make it once, or sourcing an entire paragraph one one source. If you may, please help there! Thanks :D Xihix 01:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I talked to an admin for a long time, and he helped with Dookie, and he said it should be ready to go for an FA. I just need you to get those sources and info you were talking about, and we can go ahead. Xihix 05:08, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I think the we've reached consensus in the FAC for Dookie, as every opposing reason has been resolved. Do you think it's looking good? Xihix 01:04, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Touch me im sick

Not sure. I just saw that line (or something like it) in some website i think. Anyway, I can't clarify it, so change it as per your discretion.Tommy Stardust 06:25, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Grunge 'music'

I have two unanswered messages from you - had c. 9 pints last night, I shakey today to say the least so I'll answear each seperatly least whats left of my brain has to deal with more than one thing at a time. So, I don't like Grunge. I never liked it, any of it, not Nirvana, not Pearl Jam, not - can't think a third band...Black Hole Sun? Grunge happened during the height of Acid House here; at the time I was more about glow sticks and shrooms than plaid and smack. I did see Nirvana in Sir Henrys in Cork supporting Sonic Youth just before Nevermind was released and I stood there and tought to myself 'Why?'. Whatever, Grunge music should be an FA so count me in for sourcing, ce, files etc, but ney content.

CommentObject There is something weird going on with your talk bty, every time I go back to fix all my basic misspelling I am greeted with a 'clear cache' msg I've not seen else where. Also, your archive box misuses em dash, please see WP:DASH MF. I don't trust you to make thoes basic changes; do you have a third party or a sock that could wet me beak.[2] [3]. Ceoil 23:40, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Thats not very nice. I need to read up on the background, but the tone is pathetic. You need an apology. Ceoil 23:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking of a situation where you -I'm assume you have a sword at home- are bended down on one foot, your lance folding on a poxed wrench begging for the mercy of her bot operated son, pleading that content editors have thesmaerightotliveqasthebotas. Ha! Fool. Ceoil 23:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Alternative rock

Don't readd copyright violations to this article again. Next time I see WP:NONFREE being abused as much as it was there I'll start handing out warnings. — Moe ε 20:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't see how you could assume bad faith with my message, I intended to do it if commentary wasn't added and reinsertion was made again, which continues to happen on Wikipedia regardless. Placing a heavy hand on it doesn't mean that I was assuming you were going to try and blatantly revert me. Since your not, I'm not warning you about it. Critical commentary should be a part of the article not in the caption. If you could write about the songs influence or style on the main body of the article, that would be acceptable for fair use. Be sure to add on the image description page what articles the audio files are on and why they are fair use there. Cheers! — Moe ε 23:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Samshing Pumpkins

Is it just me or does the smashing pumpkins article not mention anything about Corgan's nasal/whiny singing? Tommy Stardust 18:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha very funny Tommy! Over here we call it whinging.[4]..."in an annoying or persistent manner". Ceoil 18:56, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Found mentions here [5], [6], [7]. For more just Google "billy corgan nasal voice". I think its rather important at least a mention is made in the article.Tommy Stardust 20:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Jason Todd

Hello Wesley,

I appriciate what you are saying but i think perhaps you underestimate the importance of the Jason Todd character in popular culture.

Jason Todd is one of THE most imporant characters in modern graphical literature. He was Robin - of 'Batman and Robin'. He was the Robin which the American public decided to kill. The death of Robin is one of THE most talked about events in comic book history. The death of Jason Todd impacted upon Batman (perhaps the most important character in modern graphical literature) for 20 years. His recent return has been one of the most talked about events in comic books over the last five years.

Furthermore Jason Todd epitomises the impact of both DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths and Infinite Crisis - in that he has two very difference origins / personalities / careers as Robin due to the first Crisis, and he has returned to life following the second Crisis.

I propose that 'the general reader' would like some information about how that character developed. And I'm sorry - I do not feel that there was too much information in my entry (Perhaps you should read the artcile on Tim Drake to see how much information people would like about a particular Robin's career - I know he has been robin for longer, but frankly his impact in comic book lore is still significantly less that Jason Todd's). The current article offers 540 words for Jason Todd's Post-Crisis career as Robin. My version provided 1550 - hardly excessive (Tim Drake's career as Robin gets over 4100 words).

This is an encyclopedic entry. People who visit this sort of article have a right/want to know which villains Jason came across during his career. They have a right/want to know that he was a successful crimefighter who met the President etc. they have a right/want to know the progression of the character from innocent boy to (possibly) anti-heroic murderer.

My article provided this information - To be honest, when I visited this site I felt that the present article provided the reader with very little information about Jason's career as Robin. The present version is simply not very good.

It uses flowery language - which expresses writers own opinion... "Unlike Grayson or the pre-Crisis Jason, the post-Crisis Jason never blossoms under Batman's tutelage" What the is this supposed to mean to anybody??? Jason never 'blossoms'?? I think perhaps that my article describes Jason's success and failures - helping the reader decide for themseleves whether the character 'blossoms'.

"Jason discovers his mother was not his biological mother" Erm....ok. However, The present article provide no infomration about Jason's parents in the first place. It is vital to his character that his father was a criminal killed by one of Batman's arch foes. This is the essence of Jason's rage - against both crime and Batman. It is vital to show how his murderous tendancies developed over time - this IS Jason's chatacter. But anyway....

The present article also uses some slightly innapropriate language for the sections..."In 1988's "A Death in the Family" storyline" This is not 'Fictional Character history' this is a pubication detail.

I appriciate that your concern is for the interests of the 'general reader'. However, I feel that for the reader of comics since before the present Grant Morrison run (such as those who remember Doug Moench's first run) there is a need for Jason's complete chcarcter history. At present this article is scarcely encyclopedic. To be frank the section on the pre-crisis Jason also needs expanding. This character existed for about four years - a lot happened to the lad.

Basically I propose re-inserting my more detailed entry and seeing whether anybody other than yourself thinks that it puts too much information on this page. I will do this on Monday unless too many people object.

Album Art

I thought about that too, but its a dreadful cover - all oasis cover art is dreadful. Wooden floors, swimming pools, blue on black, odd angles...I'm too nice a person to take them up on it. Go for it though, if you think you can restrain yourself. Ceoil 21:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Capitalization of links

Hi there. Note that this is quite unnecessary, as both links work the same. Also, capitalizing has the disadvantage that it may give the incorrect impression that genres should be capitalized (see WP:MUSTARD#Capitalization), which as I'm sure you know is a common mistake. --PEJL 14:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Oasis (band)

A relatively new user has put the article up for FAC. I don't believe this was done under good judgment. Just wanted to inform you of something that caught my eye. Best wishes, NSR77 ^T_C 04:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Grindcore

The only people who classify it as metal are the musically ignorant who think anything thats loud, heavy, fast, and had has harsh vocal is metal. I guess that means I should add Crust punk, D-beat, and Hardcore punk to the template. I hope this doesn't come off a mad or angry, because I'm not. I just think its stupid to keep it on there when the article states that its a punk sub genre. And I'm not calling you musically ignorant, because from my year or so of editing, I know that you know A LOT more about music than I do. Inhumer 22:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Grunge music

Sure, not a problem. I'll try and start this weekend (weekdays aren't too good, with work and all). Also, I have the book Babylon's Burning a publication that covers a pretty thorough amount of grunge history. Otherwise, I'll start compiling some mainstream web based material for the article. Regards, NSR77 ^T_C 20:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

This weekend has been busy as hell for me, with little time left for Wikipedia other than small edits. I'll try to gather some online articles shortly. Regards, NSR77 ^T_C 18:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Alternative Music Collaboration of the Week

The Editor's Barnstar

		The Editor's Barnstar
		I, Grim-Gym hereby award you this barnstar for your relentless commitment to the Alternative Music Collaboration of the Week; and for fanatically editing the project's chosen article, devoid of any reluctance or prejudice whatsoever. Grim-Gym 04:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Zeitgeist

I'll give a hand with this one where I can. One glaring thing I notice is the article says "The album debuted at #2 on the Billboard 200, selling approximately 150,000 copies in its first week." This is not true, and I checked the cited source. The cited source says "nearly 150, 000", not "approximately". To the nearest thousand, the actual figure was 145, 000 according to Nielsen Soundscan - check here. LuciferMorgan 09:10, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Dookie passed FA

It doesn't have the star yet, but in the FA articles list, it's listed. Xihix 18:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Concerning an edit from the Jason Todd section

I recently restored an edit concerning the planned, but rejected Earth-Two counterpart of Jason Todd. You mentioned deleting it because a messageboard is an unreliable source. Fair enough, but the info was indeed printed in an interview of the Infinite Crisis Hardcover. 71.120.233.114 09:28, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

By the Way FAC

Replied to your comments. NSR77 ^T_C 15:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

and make it better

I really like that soppy, sentimental, trite, McCartney song about a child; so if you wanna go for it, I'll help. Ceoil 23:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't have the white album, never heard that song, but will track it down. I like their ballads, blackbird, long and winding road, across the universe. My favourite is probably Hello/Goodbye. I like them a lot, and I buy into the theory that they were the grea... Ceoil 23:12, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

"after years of debate" I've had many of those conversations myself; usually at 4.45am on a sunday morning. Ceoil 23:15, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Downloaded it. Listening. Just as a side point, after reading that 33 Joy Division book again yesterday, and I found a wired JD doc on soulseek a wekk or two back; Martin Hannett, I'd like to do something on him. Interesting character, and a god-like producer. Ceoil 23:25, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Grunge music

You know, about the only reliable source I can find is this. I spent ages searching CNN, Rolling Stone, Time, NME, etc and I found jack squat. I guess it's because I haven't edited the article and don't really know what you're looking for. But I can find no general overviews of grunge history online, which is rather disappointing. Kamryn · Talk 07:58, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Accidental Revolution: The Story of Grunge may be worth a look. CloudNine 14:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Be Here Now (FA)

Congratulations on Be Here Now getting to FA. LuciferMorgan 16:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative music July 2007 Newsletter

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter Issue 4 - July 2007

"Thurston Moore? Is that your real name? I mean, give me a break. You made that up. That's a good one. Did you have a mom and shit like that?" - Gibby Haynes Project news Californication (album), Dookie, Be Here Now, and By the Way reached featured article status and Wilco discography reached featured list status in the past month! We now have 20 articles of featured quality. Well done to the various WP:RHCP editors, Xihix, Ceoil, WesleyDodds, and Teemu08. Kate Bush was featured on the Main Page on July 30. We collaborated on Meat Puppets, In Utero, "Touch Me I'm Sick", John Frusciante, and Zeitgeist (The Smashing Pumpkins album) during the past month. During the month of July, Sky Blue Sky, R.E.M. (band), "Monkey Gone to Heaven", A.M. (album), The Cure, Blood Sugar Sex Magik, Wilco, Loose Fur, John Frusciante, A Ghost Is Born and Being There (album), a total of 11 articles, were promoted to good article status; a record month. We now have 33 GAs, out of a total of ~680 articles.

New members Killereditors, Xihix, M2Ys4U and Lostvalley joined the alternative music fold during July. Editors User:CloudNine, User:WesleyDodds

You are receiving this newsletter because you have signed up for WikiProject Alternative music. If you wish to stop receiving this newsletter, or would like to receive it in a different form, add your name to the appropriate section here. This newsletter was delivered by the automated R Delivery Bot 21:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC) .

Loveless 33⅓

:D That's one of my favorite albums ever. Nice to know that someone noticed my 33⅓ subpage organizer thing (although I really have to set a schedule for updating it). Also, a long overdue thanks for helping with and making suggestions to improve the stuff I've done. --Brandt Luke Zorn 10:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Haven't gotten a chance to listen to them, unfortunately. I mainly got into MbV because I wanted to hear more music like Siamese Dream. --Brandt Luke Zorn 10:40, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks; I'm actually considering knocking out a few more discographies before summer's over, Pumpkins included. They're relatively easy compared to articles, and getting a few featured would help a generally overlooked part of music-related articles here. Maybe we should have an "Improve The Discography Page of Your Favorite Band" Week at the alternative music WikiProject. --Brandt Luke Zorn 11:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Loveless. We should go for it; I can never decide if I prefer Loveless over closer, and I spent 4 years in a band that was basically rehashing "To Here Knows When" over and over (when we weren't trying to reproduce transmission). The Cavanagh book goes into the production in some detail, its a really great story. Ceoil 12:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

"I prefer Ride's Nowhere when it comes to shoegaze opuses". Dear, oh dear. We had this discussion before; you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Dude (as you yanks say); seriously. Ceoil 14:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Tbh, Joy division seems daunting. Suggest we work together on loveless and then Closer, and then go for the big one. Ceoil 15:01, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Im decided that the "gena gena guna guna" riff in "Smokers Outside The Hospital" is the best guitar line I've heard yet. It's fucking fantastic. Ceoil 17:33, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Im talking to myself at this stage, but wolf like me; TV on the radio & Such A Small Love. Ceoil 18:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

As an interesting aside, your recent ANI spat was mentioned on the site that cannot be mentioned. Nothing personally about you, the post was about the article on your close namesake. So you are now infamous; in a way. Fame at last. Ceoil 01:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at recent threads on the mailing list, and work it out from there. You were indirectly mentioned only. Don't pay too much creedence to what they say there, there are so many agendas at play from them, its almost Shakespearean. Ceoil 01:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Send the link, its a bank holiday tomorrow, so I'll be around. Ceoil 02:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Its not a holiday, I'm working in Amsterdam for a few months, and yeah I've heard all the jokes. Send on any tips you have. Ceoil 02:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Silly you indeed. Its been a while since I heard mention of Th´ Faith Healers! Ceoil 02:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Pumpkins

Have you ever considered them for a Featured Topic? NSR77 ^T_C 01:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, I'm extremely sorry about Grunge. I was too busy last weekend and this weekend I went to Warped so I had absolutely no time. I'll attempt this week. NSR77 ^T_C 01:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Independent music

Go for it. It also might be worth going for a COTW on that article. On other matters, I'm currently working on Pixies discography; do you think I should include all the promotional singles? CloudNine 07:14, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Just use your version, I can diff your additions and go through the refs later today. CloudNine 09:21, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

There must be a bot to handle redirects, as I've seen it around. I'll go check it out. CloudNine 10:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Moved it to independent music. There were no real double redirect problems, just had to change a few redirects. Could do with a cleanup though. If there are any double redirects, there are apparently plenty of bots that fix them quickly. CloudNine 18:36, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey Jude

By the way, I've got access to a Beatles songbook that covers "Hey Jude" in depth; it describes the song in detail and has the vocal and piano parts. Let me know if you want me to transcribe parts or copy out the description for your reference. Plus I'd be happy to help with cleanup. CloudNine 19:13, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Timeline

Will you stop removing timelines? I want to create clear overviews about related genres. A visual time line gives a better visual overview to certain related genres (protopunk-punk-harcore-noise-grunge), than a large endless list or text. The time lines may be too long, if so, feel free to shorten them and cut out the less notable bands.Houtlijm 07:43, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

The Mean Red Crawley Spiders

Christ indeed. Anyway, I have some great bits and pieces on the recording and marketing of loveless, I'd say a collab. of the week is premature. A few weeks adding content are left yet, there is a great story here, and I'd like to do with this article what you said you'd like to do with REM. Ceoil 23:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Have you heard the MBV tribute album Suicide is fine. Most of its fairly faithful reproductions, but its well worth tracking down. If you've heard Flying Sauser Attack's version of "Outdoor miner", its over an hour of that. Sweet. Ceoil 16:05, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Batman

Thanks for lending a hand on the article. I noticed that you made some changes to his introductory sentences, can you make those same changes at the Batman example provided at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/exemplars#Comic_book_characters for consistency? Much appreciated. Lord Sesshomaru 23:54, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, all in all, I think Batman should be changed to action hero, not superhero, as the latter refers to those with superhuman powers or abilities, which he lacks. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru 00:13, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

BSSM FAC

Hey. I was just attacked for reviewing BSSM's FAC, and crucified for misusing the word "fragment". I trust you as an editor and you're a neutral observer here; so if you could go through my review and tell me if I really am full of horseshit, I would really appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Grim-Gym 07:08, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for trying to get you involved in this minor scuffle—I don't know what I was thinking. This article is on the brink of passing it's FAC, but it could use more input if you're willing to offer it. Best wishes. Grim-Gym 03:47, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

userpage

Yep, but what the hell. MES is the best human I've come across yet. FSA you should definitely look up. Ceoil 21:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

There is a Martin bio just out according to Q, apparently its crap; but according to Q all that stuff is true. "Steve used to do a bit of speed." And the rest. Ceoil 21:43, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Just to go back to JD for a bit, do American's know about hooky's ex wife Caroline Aherne. Because they/ye should. "Hooky and the boys". Ceoil 21:53, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Follow the links from here, also work outwards from here. Ceoil 22:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

She's an Irish colleen dressed up as an old bird, but Irish nonetheless, so don't be too harsh. Ceoil 22:08, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Have only heard bits and pieces, but what I have heard is very good. They were a great live band too. I quite like Gavin Friday, in paticular Each Man Kills the Thing He Loves. Why, what have you got. Ceoil 22:14, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

To be fair, by comparison, the fact that they are a bunch of loosers was never lost on the VPs. Fine, they looked like goths (or did 25 years ago) but they were never and aint no goths. There's a link here with MBV, the two bands were friends during the mid 80s, during a time when VP were great and MBV were really really shit. My thoughs at the time were that they were all the same, Dublin bands who needs them. We had 5 go down to the sea and Microdisney after all, and didnt need to all head to london as soon as we could breed. Ceoil 22:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Wolverine

I was hoping someone would one day rewrite the article. Because it's become such a mess that's the only way I can see it as being cleaned-up. I suggest if you're not so up to scratch on Wolverine's stories, just write fully from a real world perspective. Alientraveller 22:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Blood Sugar Sex Magik

Actually I'm quite pleased that you were able to recover a somewhat negative review. I searched tirelessly (even Entertainment Weekly, which came up with no "BSSM" related hits). I'll incorporate the review into the article now. NSR77 ^T_C 23:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

re:Batman

Hi. Unfortunately, I've been too busy in other areas of Wikipedia to help with copy-editing Sorry :( — Deckiller 20:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: Burton's Batman

I'm not so sure what I really want to do know, and certainly the Tim Burton Batman film is something I'm not such a big fan of (I love Burton, but he admitted he wasn't a comic book fan). Still, I can help out every now and then.

As for Transformers (toy line), I don't think there's ever been a definitive document, but you can try just look through all the stuff I used for Transformers (fiction). Alientraveller 13:55, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Begorrah, a bunch of Irish bands to recommend these days

Yes. The golden hoard, 5 go down to the sea, Rollerskate Skinny [8], Sultans of Ping, Frank and Walters (1st EP only), Wormhole (1st EP only), Whipping Boy, Future Kings of Spain [9]. And also this [10], English guys, but funny all the same. Early something happens, at a strach; if you like the Waterboys. Ceoil 00:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Rollerskate Skinny I'm very fond of, in paticular speed to my side [11] and the first track from Novice. Been a while, but Ill get the mp3s to work; long time since i updated. which is why the html is all weird. How is grunge going. Ceoil 09:23, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha Catherine Wheel. I once broke up with a girlfriend because she like Catherine Wheel. Slightly austic of me looking back; but dear god man why. FARs do tend to catch up suddenly and make you dizzy, but its worthwhile work. I hope your sortie to Oklahoma City / East Texas to attain Touching From a Distance is a sucess. Ceoil 09:57, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

What a great album. California seems very unreal to me, having seen it in so many movies, and it is so mythologised (sp). I guess its like in entourage; I was in NY a few years back and it was like being in a Public Enemy album. I'd hope LA is not like being in bloodsugarwhatever. Ceoil 10:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Q, the fuckers, ran an issue 'exploring' (actually they just listed) the greatest (yuck) guitarists of the last .... yrs. Sumner was not there, Shields was not there either. I'm tempted to tool up and head for the nearest high rise library ;). Ceoil 12:47, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of I-pods, the last seven hour were soundtracked by "Jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet". It was a great 7 hrs; more pls. Ceoil 14:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Ecstatic nihilism at its best. [12]. Holy god. Ceoil 02:45, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm really pissed off with Q at the moment; no, no left field surprises. They listed the best Steve albini recordings this month also; no tribute to a bus, no seamonsters, no slint. Bastards. That kind of thing gets me down, but am cheered up by things like the girl in the tvontheradio vid. she does nothing, but is there anyway. classy. Ceoil 02:59, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Well spotted. Did you notice the two microphones. Ceoil 03:04, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Stop saying awsome. As a friendly tip we old world folks see the word as much of a pity as your president. What i like about the track is the single kick drum beat. Its so damn funky. Ceoil 03:11, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

lol and thanks. I'm really obsessed these days with harbour coat. have you seen it on any live albums or vids. Ceoil 03:19, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

"did have to take university courses on Renaissance literature and 18th century British literature, so don't worry about the youth of America too much". Ha, I'll sleep easier tonight. Ye has me worried there with sex and the city, glad that is all sorted. Ceoil 03:27, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Dude, I salute you. Your talking to the wrong girls imo. Usually, within 5 or 6 seconds I try and scope their taste. I scope other things too, but that's between me and god. Ceoil 03:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Get new peers so ;) Be careful about your assumptions, american; the only thing I know abot lez zepplin is that they are shit. H'Ja like them apples. Ceoil 03:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

It doesnt work like that anymore. In a list of my top 20 bands, 19 are english, and kevin sheilds is more or less english. so is yeats, so is bacon. good luck to them. Ceoil 03:53, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Reply

You are correct, I guess I missed that, so my apologies. However, it still would not have been heading towards a pass so I'm not going to reopen it. I suggest you renominate it. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 15:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Batgay

I hope you will not mind my restoring the funny panel - it speaks volumes about gay innuendo. Good work on the article, by the way. Haiduc 02:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't mean to harp, but I fail to see your logic. What do you mean by "no context or commentary"? What context or commentary does the other panel have? Or, conversely, what could be more contextual than Batman thinking of the boy when all the others are thinking of their girls? Could it be that you did not get the sense of the text? Haiduc 03:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your lucid answer. Haiduc 02:18, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Grunge music

My only concern would be the "Origin of the term grunge". That needs a little expansion, probably from the huge footnote at the bottom. Apart from that, I think the article will pass FAR. (not a lot of responses on the FAR itself though). CloudNine 09:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Done. CloudNine 10:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

That Time article might be useful for the effect of grunge on the Seattle music scene (possibly could be incorporated into the last paragraph of "Mainstream success"?). I don't think the article mentions record companies signing everything in Seattle (I think Q's grunge edition talks about that). Some of it may be useful for the "Decline in popularity" section (esp. the first two paragraphs); this quote might be worth working into the text (perhaps in some sort of anti-mainstream sentence):

“ Seattle rockers take almost as much pride in their ornery individuality as in their music. "I can't stand it when people come up to me and say, 'Congratulations on your success!' " Cobain told a music magazine recently. "I want to ask them, 'Do you like the songs?' Selling 2 million records isn't useful to me unless they're good." ”

Last para of the second page talks about out-of-town bands moving to Seattle; another source for the last para of "Early development". I didn't know that Nirvana were directly influenced by Husker Du (I always thought it was through the Pixies). By the way, I won't be editing at my normal level next week; I'll try to contribute to the COTW though. It's a shame that FAC is a little slow at the moment (hopefully just a holiday slow-down). CloudNine 19:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Portal

Acknowledged. We should also expand the number of DYKs (and use a random selection per line each time, like Portal:Cuba). CloudNine 09:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Dave Lombardo

Hi Wesley. I was wondering if you could weigh in with some feedback at this peer review? The Slayer WikiProject is hoping to raise this article to Featured Article status in the near future. Thanks for your time. LuciferMorgan 17:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Right

Thanks. I think (hope? pray?) I would have been cooler if not for DyK's reemergence this past week. As it is, I'm all prepared to go to war over...oh god...The Cowboy Cop. I'm out of bourbon, so I may just have to cry.

By the way--been traveling for most of the past two months. I did get your email aways back and checked out your real-life activities. A fellow late-night DJ, very good. I'd tell you what my on-air nickname at my college station was, but, um, it's a couple degrees more embarrassing than, say, The Cowboy Cop, so I won't. If I recall correctly from the playlist you had online, something from Kate Bush's Hounds of Love was on there. I'm not sure what it indicates (or--maybe I can guess and don't want to), but that's probably the CD I've listened to most often over the past eight years.

After having just gone crazy on tone cluster, don't have any significant projects here at the moment other than DyK patrol, so if you have anything, I'm happy to lend a hand. Alternative rock in good shape? Best, Dan—DCGeist 05:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Batman Bolding

I'm taking the liberty of bolding the current teams that DC Characters are in, since the long affiliation list might be confusing to some, and emphasizing current affiliation by bolding may translate a bit better. Batman's a part of all that's listed there, is the reason. --CmdrClow 07:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Your reasoning is not true. Most comic book articles do in fact represent the current status of most of the characters, and the other pages have incorporated my technique. The Justice League, The Outsiders, the Sinestro Corps, the Teen Titans, etc. SOme characters have so many affiliation listings that it is unclear what they have been a part of in the past or the present. Just because Batman is currently a member of all things listed is the only reason why all his affiliations would be bolded. It's a relatively obscure point in the article, and I don't think it warrants a revert war. --CmdrClow 10:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm aware of the script, but it doesn't affect team listings in character article pages. It's already a mainstay of other team members, and the only two DC characters out of ALL the others that I've had prblems with are the World's Finest. --CmdrClow 22:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Grunge

How is the FAR going. Any specific areas you want help with. Ceoil 10:22, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I gave you this link before [13]. Ceoil 22:55, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

RE: Loveless

Yeah, the lead's the only part lagging at this point. I'll see if I can make something of it. It would probably be worth it to get Loveless to GA status first, and then get a peer review, and then an FAC later, although I may not have as much time to edit Wikipedia in general now that school's started. --Brandt Luke Zorn 07:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Nirvana

"...by singer/guitarist Kurt Cobain and bassist Krist Novoselic" - That I believe may cause some trouble with User:ChrisB. I've seen him revert things like that before. His main argument will be that "Krist isn't just a bassist - he plays [12-string] guitar too". I agree with you that it looks better with the instruments in their name but he is, almost guaranteed, to contend it. Just thought I'd give you the heads up. Scarian^Talk 20:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Well okay, if he doesn't think it's a good idea, I'll support you. Scarian^Talk 21:07, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[14] Is this some of stuff you took out? Because "it" has begun already. Scarian^Talk 16:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Grunge

Any thoughts on which samples we should add. Ceoil 13:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I have seen the work you did on both Loveless and JD. Don't do anything yet with loveless; I'll add Cavanagh soon enough, but am stuck in eastern european hotels and internet cafes for the moment. Ceoil 16:25, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Think 'hostel' but without the chainsaws or girls. Ceoil 16:29, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I have been monitoring the article every once and a while; everything looks great! NSR77 ^T_C 15:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Pearl Jam

Another complaint about the "most popular" statement; you may want to give your opinion (again). CloudNine 20:40, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative music August 2007 Newsletter

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter Issue 5 - August 2007

"The amount of time it took to get Morrissey onstage was getting longer and longer. There was this great game he'd play of wanting to be asked 15 times if it had been 14 the night before. Johnny was like, 'Let's rock!' and Mozzer would be 'Well, somebody's gotta ask me another seven times.'" - Andy Rourke Project news Blood Sugar Sex Magik and Sky Blue Sky reached featured article status in the past month! Well done to the various WP:RHCP editors and Teemu08. We collaborated on Let It Be (Replacements album), Queens of the Stone Age, Dinosaur Jr, and Loveless (album) during the past month. During the month of August, Summerteeth, Anodyne (album), and The Make-Up were promoted to good article status.

New members Freaky4jesus32, Razorblade666, and Grim-Gym joined the alternative music fold during August. Editors User:WesleyDodds

You are receiving this newsletter because you have signed up for WikiProject Alternative music. If you wish to stop receiving this newsletter, or would like to receive it in a different form, add your name to the appropriate section here. This newsletter was delivered by the automated R Delivery Bot 00:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC) .

RE: Today

Thanks yourself; Couldn't have done it without you, CloudNine, and a few of the other Alt Music Wikiproject guys. --Brandt Luke Zorn 07:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

John Frusciante

Hey Wesley. NSR77 informed me that submitting an item for prose review is probably not the most effective way to get the prose looked at, and that I'm better off asking specific users for help. We're an inch away from submitting John Frusciante to FAC, but I'm acutely aware of the fact when the article's collaboration ended, you felt that it needed to be reworked for neutrality. Would you mind going over the article when you have a minute and making a few notes about what can be improved before we move to FAC? Don't feel obligated to work on the article yourself—posting your notes directly on my talk page is enough. I know you're busy, so—many thanks if you can find the time to help us out. Grim-Gym 22:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Haha yeah. I kind of knew you were, but I figured I'd light a fire under you by hitting your talk page. I've really done all I can with the article, so any help or nitpicks would be great. Thanks a bunch. Grim-Gym 22:36, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok cool. I just don't want to keep harassing you about it. As long as you're keeping it in mind, I can't complain. I would stil like to nominate it this weekend—barring something major that you think needs to be addressed. Just keep me updated. Thanks man. Grim-Gym 04:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I removed lo-fi (I'd been meaning to do that anyway, because john attacked the genre's concept). Got any other suggestions as to what should go? I'm pretty committed to keeping electronica and experimental rock up there, just so you know. Although Indie rock and funk-rock are both worthy of being in my eyes as well. Grim-Gym 04:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

No it can't, and that's a very good point. I'll remove it. Grim-Gym 04:59, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Advice?

Hey there. I'm a relatively new Wikipedia editor and I've been working on a few pages, most specifically the one for the band Army of Freshmen. I'd like to raise it up to Featured Article status. I think I've done pretty well with improving it (especially if you look at what it looked like before I got started with it!) but I think I'm to the point where I could use some expert input. Would you mind looking at it and letting me know what you think? Also, should I add it to Wiki Project Punk? The band identifies itself as pop punk. Thanks for your time! Chrissypan 16:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)Chrissypan

glastonbury 03

one two Ceoil 22:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

When I stop pricking around with my userpage I'll give you a hand. (Im just bored at the moment). Ceoil 20:36, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Nine Inch Nails FAC

I believe I have taken care of all of the issues you raised at the NIN FAC. A few exceptions being the Sharon Tate thing and the copyvio external links. I explain myself a bit concerning those at the FAC page. Anyways, if you have any more issues or feel I didn't completely address some of your previous comments please let me know. Drewcifer 06:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Since the NIN FAC has gotten pretty unwieldly, I hid some of your comments (namely the ones that I think have been addressed). If you feel like a particular comment that I've hidden hasn't been addressed, please feel free to take it out of the hide box. I just wanted to let you know that I hid the comments to make things manageable and not to discount all of your valid points. Thanks! Drewcifer 00:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

It depends

You'll be grand if you like anything post Psychocandy. Other than that, your in trouble. If I had 100 dollars (worth about 100 million euros in ireland), I'd buy an island, a few mercenaries and a plane, or...something. but i would not spend it on the mary chain. Ceoil 17:12, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I really like the tromp le monde version, but always found the cord change in the origional to be obvious and tacky. Ceoil 17:18, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Come over so. I'll clear out County Galway for you. For a few american cents a month, I make it real clean for you. Ceoil 17:22, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

"what is there to do in Ireland after I'm done with the sightseeing": Oh there is lots. You could go see Jason Byrne, Ed Byrne, Jimmy Carr, Dylan Moran, Dara Ó Briain, David McSavage, Pauline McLynn, Republic of Loose, Iarla Ó Lionáird (a neighbour of mine), Gavin Friday and so on. And talk utter rubbish in places like this downing black. It would be your own private county, so when you get bored of us slightly amusing and harmless pesants, you can just wave your handkerchief and dismiss everybody. Two times. Ceoil 17:37, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Bring dollars, though. You said you had dollars. Ceoil 17:41, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm the last person to get in the way of an editor and his copy of Still; but revisit, it well worth it. Lock the doors and start with the second movement. Ceoil 22:32, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Nirvana-related stuff

Thanks for the support on Nirvana discography; I'm pretty confidant that it'll make it through this time around. I had an idea today to create another Nirvana list like "List of Nirvana concert tours" in the vein of List of Kylie Minogue concert tours, but then realized that very few of Nirvana's tours had names. So then I thought to make "Lis of Nirvana concerts"; there are certainly a lot of resources available, but it would be a pretty difficult project and I was questioning whether I should do it or not in the first place. I was hoping I could get your advice on this matter. Also, I look forward to starting work on "Heart-Shaped Box", though I'll probably won't be able to start contributing on in a big way until Friday or Saturday due to school. --Brandt Luke Zorn 06:19, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. I really need to get on The Smashing Pumpkins discography too, now that you mention them. I feel like I have way too many projects lining up and I need to prioritize them. But yeah, thanks. --Brandt Luke Zorn 06:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm all for it. I'm tired of seeing micropages on stuff like "Mrs. Butterworth" and "Token Eastern Song". Heck, I don't even know why stuff like "Montage of Heck" exists at all. Plus it would eliminate the songs that would be nearly impossible to progress beyond stub class, much less get to GA status. --Brandt Luke Zorn 06:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I reverted your edits to all the Nirvana song stubs you edited this morning. Please don't do stuff like this before consulting other Wikipedians. -- Floaterfluss ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

JF FAC

Thanks for all the great feedback. Just a question on the magazine reprinting: are the ones listed at Frusciante's official website acceptable? I assume they have received clearance to do such. Regards, NSR77 ^T_C 14:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I've converted all of the magazine articles that redirected to another website into simply the issue information. If you don't think the articles on Frusciante's official site are OK, then I'll have more work to do, but for now that matter is complete. On the lead concerns, I'll begin to lengthen it up now. Regards, NSR77 ^T_C 14:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey. I've been away for a few days—I went to Vegas to see the Pumpkins. I copyedited NSR's additions to the lead. Everything seems decent, unless you can think of something else that needs to be mentioned. Any input on the article's current state, especially the lead, would be awesome. Grim-Gym 04:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Nice work thus far on the Frusciante's lead section. It's much appreciated. On an unrelated note (I didn't want to create a new thread just for this), I'd love it if you weighed in on my proposition on the Zeitgeist talk page. I've proposed moving it from "Zeitgeist (The Smashing Pumpkins album)" to "Zeitgeist (Smashing Pumpkins album)". Whenever you feel like it. Grim-Gym 02:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

No

I dont like Oasis, I thought that was clear. Nice eg of Americans using irony though. Ceoil 23:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

BYT, What is you non partisan view of the ip Kevin Shield is not Irish argument. Ceoil 23:46, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

"The result was speedy closed, taken to RfD" Does this gibberish mean anything to you? Ceoil 00:14, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

WR:TFR, GTD, WP:XTFR, FYSNSIAS; WP:KMFNDsjfSJFLJKH Ceoil 01:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Sweet relief; I had tought you were going to call my bluff; per WR:FDLKNDBFLJ. Ceoil 01:31, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Very nice. More please. Ceoil 01:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Be carefull Dodds, not all of us grew up in LA; some of us are hicks, and for some of us Eldritch is a thing unto himself. We frear the sun, the moon, clouds, and Eldritch. Respect that. Ceoil 01:59, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

"California is a big state." I know what you mean; thoes fellas from Abolough; all bastards. I never liked the post floodlands SOM, but floodlands is still a great album. Ceoil 02:09, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh my. Ceoil 02:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Indie, innit. [15]. Ceoil 02:31, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant; never heard of that band before; but its up there with take the skinheads bowling and punk rock girl. Ceoil 02:51, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to admit I never heard the Rempacements before. More. Ceoil 02:59, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I carnt recomment Tribute to a Bus highly enough, steve albine's best; here is a small taste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvr-R3-hXn4. Ceoil 03:08, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

"when the book recounts the band's career up to Loveless they don't seem anything but Irish"

Have you ever heard an interview with Kevin Sheilds? "Thats right yeah, when we where recording Loveless like, your man alan magee was acting like a proper langer like; but sure thats record company people for you like; they do though dont they though". Tell me he's not a Paddy. I dumped a few mps's [16] here, bty. Corks finest isn't anything cover band! Ceoil 13:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I done a list, but the order of the last 3 troubles me. Ceoil 08:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Am, I'm expecting a list from you too, boy. Ceoil 08:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Mmm; forgot about Cocteau Twins and Ride. It'll have to be top 22 fav bands now. BTY, what the hell time is it in LA now? Your up very early/late. Ceoil 08:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

1.44am isn't that bad; you'll be grand tomorrow. I also have a weakness for Scissor Sisters that i'm slow to admit in a list. Camp? yes, but...great.Ceoil 08:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Don't get me started on Frankie. I came of age when they were no1 in IRL for 100 weeks. A great band full stop. Have you heard their version of "Born to Run"? Oh boy. Ceoil 08:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Italian friend - she - Sounds good. Ceoil 09:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

When I went to visit her - "I bought"; "I read"? Dude. Ceoil 09:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Being a gentlemann will only get you so far. Me, I'm a prick; no apologies. Now that I think about it? pah. Stop thinking. Ceoil 09:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, there's that too. This msg was brought to you by Mean Red Spiders "Yes, I Call". Top 20 songs would be more intersting? Ceoil 09:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm going trough I tunes trying to whittle it down, but I agree it can't be done. It shifts. Ceoil 09:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The link is great, thanks. Maybe "bring on the dancing horses" is their finest moment; but I love the early 80s liverpool stuff. Dead or alive? Have you read Julian Cope's books? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceoil (talk • contribs) 10:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Part of being European is laughing at yer like of Depeche Mode. I grant that 'just cant get enough' (have you heard Nouvelle vague's version) is great, but seriously? They are langers. Buy all things Cope bty. Ceoil 10:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

And 18th Dye's Tribute to a Bus, is just great. Ceoil 10:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Go back; its better than the origional. Ceoil 10:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Sisters: Walk way, Marian (version), Lucretia My Reflection, Driven Like The Snow; Feilds: Moonchild, Celebrate; Souxi: Happy house; maybe all of Kaleidoscope. Ceoil 11:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Top tunes. hard; came up with five

• God only knows (beach boys)
• Age of love (AOL)
• Dalliance (wedding present)
• Poolhouse blue (18th dye)
• Winter (fall)
• She's lost control (JD)
• i don't believe in you (talk talk)
• Hoppipola (Sigur Ros)
• I feel love (Donna Summer)
• Ceoil 12:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Ref format at The Smashing Pumpkins

Hey Wes. I noticed that The Smashing Pumpkins article footnotes use both the {{cite}} template, and the proper citation format without utilizing the template. I'd just like to ask, did you encounter any discussion about that when it came to promoting the article to good or FA status? I've got Billy Talent on a GA hold right now, and the guy has stated I need to use the template. Comments? Cheers. -- Reaper X 04:59, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks alot Wes! I really appreciate your guidance man. -- Reaper X 06:14, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Favor

Within the week, yes. Although I have distaste for Oasis, I owe you one for Frusciante. NSR77 ^T_C 19:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, I hate to ask but could you possibly take a look at John Frusciante discography? Grim-Gym has been the only reviewer as of yet and I would appreciate any sort of feedback. Regards, NSR77 ^T_C 19:35, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I did some reference formatting and cleanup on the Gallagher article today, though I wanted to get some good rewriting in for One Hot Minute. I'll continue with more formatting in the next few days. NSR77 ^T_C 22:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Your edit to A Streetcar Named Marge

This was not actually a mistake. Strunk and White's Elements of Style says, "Omit initial A or The from titles when you place the possessive before them" (Fourth Edition, pg. 38). It's possible that Wikipedia's style guidelines say something different -and if so, please point me to the page where they do- but I did leave out the A on purpose. Zagalejo^^^ 19:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

South of Heaven

Do you reckon this article would pass at FAC? It's rather short in my opinion, although the album it covers is minor and there's been little discussion on it - most discussion focuses on Reign in Blood. Do you think it'd be worth trying to FAC this one, or do you deem it to be a waste of time due to its length? LuciferMorgan 10:26, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Pixies

Thanks for the link; didn't know a copy was available online (although Kim Clark and Mr. Francis? really?) Some more of the Dü. CloudNine 12:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Talking of archives, I might subscribe to Rocksbackpages.com (no Spin though). Any thoughts? CloudNine 22:17, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

NIN FAC (again)

Hey, so after a good long while (11 days!) of trying to change the NIN article based on your most recent suggestions, I've kinda hit a brick wall. I commented on the NIN FAC, so I was hoping you could take a look. It might be easier to take a look at the diff, so you don't have to wade through it all. Thanks for helping us out so much, and please let me know if I'm totally off the mark or missing the point with my comments. Drewcifer 10:02, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I don't have any access to such articles. I'll see about finding some online versions. Hopefully someone else can help out in that department. Drewcifer 12:04, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Watchmen

Took a stab at film section. Included cast and Dave Gibbons' support of the film. Moved back development information. Feel it's not as important as film that's actually being made. Talk to Erik about the whole article. He has sub-pages and collected reliable sources. He may help you.

Good Rorschach impression? Alientraveller 10:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

How do you do, sir? Feel free to use any of the sources on my sub-pages. Take look at the "draft" sub-page -- I believe that the green sections are what seemed to be original research, and red sections are content that depend on disputable sources. I started work on a new draft at the "revision" sub-page (starting over, basically), but work has been slow -- other priorities pop up. Anyway, let me know what you think! —Erik (talk • contrib) - 11:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Nice work with making some headway with the article. My plan was basically to provide a completed revised draft in my subpage during the FAR process to see if people would be agreeable to its implementation, that way there wouldn't be pressure to research heavily in such a short interval. Did you take a look at the draft subpage? If so, do you agree that the red-colored text is susceptible? For example, the sentence "Juvenal was credited with exposing the vice of Roman society through his satires" originally implies that Moore was trying to be satirical. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter -- it's not an authoritative voice making that connection. I mainly work with film articles, and I was actually going to try improving Kingdom Come (comic book) using Watchmen as the model, then I saw how awful Watchmen was. Since I consider the latter the more valuable graphic novel, I shifted focus and created the subpages that you see. Haven't made leeway in some time, though. Let me know what you intend for the article, what your thought process is and all. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 21:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I was actually concerned about the Watchmen subpages, which tend to violate WP:PLOT, especially an article like Captain Metropolis, which has virtually no real-world context. I'm not so sure if the major characters are entitled to their own articles, which are extended plot and character summaries. That's why I was starting out with real-world context about the characters in my revision -- if it got to the point of being too long, it could be spun off per WP:SS. Right now, though, the pages seem to be fancruft. From what I've read in the academic studies that I have, the perceived themes tend to intertwine, leading me to think that a "Critical analysis" section at Watchmen is most suitable. Additionally, I am not particularly favorable of the article's "Allusions to iconography, art, and history" section -- it strikes me as trivial, listing all the "cool little things" that pop up in the article with no real-world relevance attached. Actually, there may be some real-world relevance with Kitty Genovese in one of the academic studies, and that could be incorporated elsewhere in the article. Otherwise, I don't see much value in this particular section. In regard to the FAR, I am not in a hurry at all. Your best resources would probably include books about Alan Moore -- I was not able to see the pages inside these books at a site like Amazon.com, so there may be a lot of content. I tried my best to specify passages in the books that I did find relevant. Just not sure if I'd be able to get my hands on them easily through the library. What's your thought on a timeline for revising this? My contributions rather fluctuate these days with my academic priorities, so let me know what you have in mind.

Also, I must decline the offer to work on Batman (1989 film) with you -- I just have too many projects on my plate, such as finally advancing Fight Club (film) to FA status, improving recent films, improving some older films like The Shawshank Redemption, et cetera. Not to mention that Alientraveller, Bignole, and I are looking to get Batman Begins to FA status (see talk page). However, I would be able to provide some references myself to help with the 1989 film article. Just that direct contribution is just a promise I can't make right now. Do feel free to ask me to take a look at something, though! I'd be glad to help with resources and sharing of opinions over the article's structure and content. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 00:19, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Can you provide the ISBN for the Wright book so I can see what you mean? I would be fine with character pages if there is sufficient real-world context -- my pet peeve is the structure of articles like these. Actually, there has been some critical analysis of Dr. Manhattan and Adrian Veidt while downplaying Rorschach's significance because while Rorschach is black and white in his motives, there is more to explore in the others' acts and decisions -- acceptance of the crime for the greater good, basically. By the way, I cannot seem to click [edit] on this section -- I have to edit the whole article to add a comment. Any idea why this would be the case? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 01:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Geesh! If we can't cite The New York Times, I guess it's time to close the book on Wikipedia. :-P I'd welcome a NYT citation, clearly. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 03:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Pulp PR

Here 'tis: Wikipedia:Peer review#Pulp Fiction (film)—DCGeist 18:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant. Thanks for the good news.—DCGeist 06:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Radio Free Europe (song) and Radio Free Europe (Hib-Tone version)

Any thoughts on merging the two? Should the Hib-Tone version be merged with the IRS one or vice-versa? CloudNine 08:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

COTW

Updated. I was also thinking of nominating Nevermind; seems to happen a lot with this COTW. CloudNine 08:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Started; I'm wondering if I should mention that quote by Guy Picciotto in the epilogue. CloudNine 09:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that would be fine; "Lounge Act" doesn't have a huge amount of content either. I'm moving into halls today, so I won't be able to help as much as I would like on the COTW (or on Wikipedia for that matter). CloudNine 09:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Fall Out Boy

I really fail to see how they classify as alternative rock. They're crap - for lack of a better term - and don't follow the usual style of their fellow alt rockers.

And I know their genre is disputed (coughemocough), but I think we can safely say they're not alternative. Your thoughts? --_{King of the Wontons} | _{lol wut?} | _{Oh noes! Vandals!} 06:03, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, okay... Let's pretend for a minute that I don't hate them with an undying passion. I still wouldn't call them alternative rock. Yes, they follow the basic formula (guitar - base - drums), but they don't sound like an alternative rock band... They're waaaaay too mainstream, and really, there's nothing in them that makes a band "alternative". From what I've heard of them (which, unfortunately, is a lot), they're either pop-punk or pop rock. Not alternative. --_{King of the Wontons} | _{lol wut?} | _{Oh noes! Vandals!} 06:22, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I know; I was going to go to Allmusic and source it but just never got around to it. And I do agree that "alternative rock" is nothing more than an umbrella term, but still. There is a certain "style" (albeit a very general one) to alternative rock bands. --_{King of the Wontons} | _{lol wut?} | _{Oh noes! Vandals!} 17:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC)