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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by GenoV84 (talk | contribs) at 19:32, 27 August 2024 (→Israeli-American). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Israeli-American

By Wikipedia's guidelines, Leigh Bardugo should not be described as Israeli-American.

First, her citizenship doesn't appear in any WP:RELIABLE source. The source provided isn't reliable by Wikipedia's standards (doesn't have a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy), and its use of "Israeli American" was probably copied from Wikipedia.

Second, and more important, "Israeli-" shouldn't appear regardless of whether or not Bardugo has Israeli citizenship. This is not a list of citizenships. Per WP:NATIONALITY, the opening paragraph should usually provide context for that which made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory where the person is currently a national or permanent resident. Regardless of whether Bargugo has Israeli citizenship, the context is that she's a resident of the United States and publishes her books in the United States. Dan Bloch (talk) 09:13, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've made this change. Dan Bloch (talk) 20:08, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did you check her biography?[1] She is Jewish, Israeli, and American according to the cited sources.[1] Bardugo was born in Jerusalem, Israel on April 6, 1975, and grew up in Los Angeles, California, U.S.[2][3][4] where she was raised by her grandparents.[5] She is secular Jewish and of Moroccan Jewish descent on her father's side,[6] and of Ashkenazi Jewish (Russian-Jewish and Lithuanian-Jewish) descent on her mother's side.[7][8]

References

  1. ^ a b Mirsky, Maya (11 May 2021). "'Shadow and Bone' is Jewish; Rogen is done with Franco; Ethiopian Jew is going to Eurovision; etc". J. The Jewish News of Northern California. San Francisco. Archived from the original on 9 June 2023. Retrieved 14 May 2024.
  2. ^ Jones, Michael M. (June 29, 2012). "Spring 2012 Flying Starts: Leigh Bardugo". Publishers Weekly. Archived from the original on April 16, 2019. Retrieved February 22, 2018.
  3. ^ Lyall, Sarah (October 3, 2019). "A Star of Y.A. Imagines a Supernatural Ivy League in Her Debut for Adults". The New York Times. Archived from the original on August 4, 2022. Retrieved August 4, 2022.
  4. ^ "Leigh Bardugo: Radical Balance". Locus. Retrieved January 28, 2024.
  5. ^ Lee, Stephan (June 4, 2013). "Veronica Roth and Leigh Bardugo in conversation about YA lit". Entertainment Weekly. Archived from the original on May 26, 2018. Retrieved May 25, 2018.
  6. ^ "Leigh Bardugo: Grounded in fantasy". INQUIRER.net. July 12, 2015. Archived from the original on June 11, 2020. Retrieved June 11, 2020.
  7. ^ Johnson, Chandra (September 25, 2015). "Young adult author talks religion, teens and the message of her popular fiction". Deseret News. Archived from the original on February 16, 2020. Retrieved February 16, 2020.
  8. ^ Leigh Bardugo (March 7, 2014). "Anonymous asked". Archived from the original on April 14, 2021. Retrieved February 16, 2020 – via Tumblr.

GenoV84 (talk) 17:26, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that Dan Bloch stated that the Jewish News of NC is not (necessarily) a reliable source which would nullify your first reference on which your entire argument is built. That she is Jewish as some of the other source say, is arguably no stronger claim for Israeli citizenship than being Catholic would be for Vatican city citizenship. Arnoutf (talk) 18:05, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. She was born in Israel, to a Jewish mother nonetheless, and that's her primary citizenship, whether you like it or not. Please check out how Israeli citizenship works, because she is first and foremost an Israeli citizen. GenoV84 (talk) 08:08, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is definitely not common global view on nationalism. This is English Wiki, not Israelite. Ihis Israelite law in fact goes against the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights right to change nationality. To me it appears rather unbalanced to put the law of a very small country above the UN in this Wiki. Arnoutf (talk) 13:59, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@GenoV84: You appear to have just copy-pasted a non-current version of the Bardugo article. This doesn't address the issue. Dan Bloch (talk) 19:29, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Other online sources extensively refer to her Jewish and Israeli background regarding her literary works, which seems to be far more important than being raised in the U.S..[1][2]

References

  1. ^ Karpen, Elizabeth (24 April 2024). "Leigh Bardugo delves into magic, intrigue, and her Sephardic heritage in 'The Familiar'". Jewish Unpacked. Retrieved 24 August 2024.
  2. ^ Briger, Sam (30 April 2024). "Fantasy writer Leigh Bardugo on magic, miracles and her version of hell". NPR. Retrieved 24 August 2024.

GenoV84 (talk) 08:14, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I looked in your sources. Neither source you add here even report the term Israel in connection to Bardugo, making it even irrelevant to judge whether these sources are reliable. Jewish - yes that is reported (but there is no discussion about that), but Israel no. So you still have to provide a reliable source that explicitly makes that claim ( the religion (Jewish) and the nationality (Israel) are 2 very distinct things). Arnoutf (talk) 13:30, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Arnoutf: and @Danbloch:
  1. You didn't check enough, apparently. Because it's written right there in Jweekly: Israeli American, and the source dates back to 2021, when she wasn't even referred to as being Israeli in her WP biography.[1]
  2. She is of Jewish descent from both parents, as many of the cited sources here clearly report.[2][3][4][5][6]
  3. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. Jewish people are an ethnicity, not a religion. Prove me wrong.

References

  1. ^ Mirsky, Maya (11 May 2021). "'Shadow and Bone' is Jewish; Rogen is done with Franco; Ethiopian Jew is going to Eurovision; etc". J. The Jewish News of Northern California. San Francisco. Archived from the original on 9 June 2023. Retrieved 14 May 2024.
  2. ^ Karpen, Elizabeth (24 April 2024). "Leigh Bardugo delves into magic, intrigue, and her Sephardic heritage in 'The Familiar'". Jewish Unpacked. Retrieved 24 August 2024.
  3. ^ Briger, Sam (30 April 2024). "Fantasy writer Leigh Bardugo on magic, miracles and her version of hell". NPR. Retrieved 24 August 2024.
  4. ^ "Leigh Bardugo: Grounded in fantasy". INQUIRER.net. July 12, 2015. Archived from the original on June 11, 2020. Retrieved June 11, 2020.
  5. ^ Johnson, Chandra (September 25, 2015). "Young adult author talks religion, teens and the message of her popular fiction". Deseret News. Archived from the original on February 16, 2020. Retrieved February 16, 2020.
  6. ^ Leigh Bardugo (March 7, 2014). "Anonymous asked". Archived from the original on April 14, 2021. Retrieved February 16, 2020 – via Tumblr.
GenoV84 (talk) 17:20, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These sources still say nothing about Israeli citizenship except for [1], which was likely copied from Wikipedia. (See Wikipedia article as of the date the jweekly.com article was published.) Dan Bloch (talk) 00:06, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Danbloch: See for yourself, she is Israeli American. I don't lie.[1]

References

  1. ^ Stroud, Allen (2023). Historical Dictionary of Fantasy Literature (2nd ed.). Lanham, Maryland: Rowman & Littlefield. p. 55. ISBN 978-1-5381-6607-9. LCCN 2022059937. BARDUGO, LEIGH (1975–): Israeli American writer.

GenoV84 (talk) 08:46, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, that is a reliable source by Wikipedia's standards. But that brings us to my second point: Bardugo's connection with Israel isn't what makes her notable so according to Wikipedia's guidelines "Israeli-American" still doesn't belong here. Dan Bloch (talk) 15:40, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why not? That doesn't make any sense. Her Jewish and Israeli background are equally (if not, even more) important as being raised in the U.S.; her literary work is extensively Jewish as well, as it constantly refers to her Jewish heritage. It wouldn't be WP:BALANCED nor accurate to accept one nationality while denying the other one, since both of them constitute her biography. GenoV84 (talk) 10:35, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Being Jewish and being Israeli are not at all the same thing. Judaism is a religion and a culture. Bardugo's Jewish background has had an effect on her work. There is no reason to think her Israeli citizenship has.
Wikipedia is clear on this. From my first post: Per WP:NATIONALITY, the opening paragraph should usually provide context for that which made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory where the person is currently a national or permanent resident. Bardugo lives in the U.S. and writes in English for American publishers. Dan Bloch (talk) 15:15, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Don't you see that you're making my case? Descending from Jews and being an Israeli national makes this person WP:NOTABLE as much as being an American citizen, and the cited sources refer to her as "Israeli American", not only American. GenoV84 (talk) 17:06, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Being Jewish and being Israeli are not at all the same thing. I never said that it was; check my previous replies. GenoV84 (talk) 17:10, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. Descending from Jews and being an Israeli national do not make Bardugo notable. Writing books makes Bardugo notable. Again, in most modern-day cases, [nationality] will be the country, region, or territory where the person is currently a national or permanent resident. It's cut-and-dried. Dan Bloch (talk) 17:29, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the cited sources state that she is both Israeli and American, therefore she cannot be considered only American; she is an Israeli national, first and foremost. Very simple. GenoV84 (talk) 05:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is indeed very simple. You are continuing to ignore WP:NATIONALITY. Since this is a Wikipedia article, it needs to follow Wikipedia's Manual of Style, not your personal opinion of what is important. Dan Bloch (talk) 15:00, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How could it be "my personal opinion" when the cited WP:RELIABLE sources state exactly what I said? GenoV84 (talk) 19:32, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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