Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10: 30 days

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting at the Reference desk.

view · edit

Frequently asked questions

This section is here to provide answers to some questions
that have been previously discussed on this talk page.

Note: This FAQ is only here to let people know that these points have previously
been addressed, not to prevent any further discussion of these issues.

To view an explanation to the answer, click the [show] link to the right of the question.

General concerns and questions

Q1: I have an issue with the name of this article.

A1: You can post a message on this page about your concern. Please note that renaming of the article will be limited until after some time has passed so that it can be looked at with some retrospect. If you would like to suggest a certain name for the article, then it might be recommended to wait until the renaming process begins. If you would like to make sure that your name hasn't already been suggested, then please first look at the various Archived Talk pages (such as Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 1, Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 2, Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 3 and so on), and the current talk page.

Q2: I have an issue about the Bath School disaster being mentioned; I have an issue with the disaster not being mentioned.

A2: As with the above question, you can post a message on this page about your concern with the wording of the sentence. If you would like to suggest different wording, then make sure to detail why your change would be an improvement in your post on this talk page. However, it is recommended to check the archive first to see if the specific suggestion to the wording has not already been discussed.

Q3: I have an issue about the mother, Nancy Lanza, being mentioned or not being mentioned as a victim of the shooting.

A3: Before posting a message, please check the article's various archived talk pages (like Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 1, Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 2) and check the Talk page's Archive index along with the current talk page before adding a new section. Discussion has occurred on this matter before, so please make sure that your point hasn't already been covered by past discussion before opening a possibly redundant thread. You can still post a message on this page if your concerns were not answered by past discussion or you believe that there is something that could change consensus on the issue.

Q4: I heard there was an NBC News report that said only handguns were used. Why isn't that in the article?

A4: This issue emanates from an NBC TODAY Show Pete Williams report early on the morning of December 15th. The information is outdated because at a press conference at 3:30 that afternoon, the Connecticut Chief Medical Examiner stated that casualties were caused by a long gun/rifle, which was later confirmed by various media reports as well as a definitive press release from the Connecticut State Police on January 18, 2013, giving details of the weapons recovered inside the school. In this video from December 15, 2012, Dr. H. Wayne Carver II, the Chief Medical Examiner of Connecticut, is asked about the wounds. At 1:13 he says "All the ones that I know of at this point were caused by the long weapon." The NBC report now carries the following message: "Editor’s note: Later on Dec. 15, officials updated the public on this story. For more details see NBCNews.com/shooting-update." On March 28, 2013, MSNBC, along with other news organizations, published court documents showing that the Bushmaster rifle was the primary weapon used in the school shooting.[1] The NBC report has been discussed before on this talk page and continues to be posted about at Article Feedback.

If this information does not answer your questions, you can perform a search of this Talk page's Archives by typing your search term into the white box above and then clicking on the Search Archive button beside it. You can still post a message on this talk page if your concerns were not addressed by past discussions or if you think that there is something that could change consensus on this issue.

Q5: I have an issue with Asperger syndrome being mentioned in the article.

A5: Various people told investigators and the media that Adam Lanza had received a diagnosis of AS. Medical experts have said that even if he did receive this diagnosis, it would not provide an explanation for the shooting. The article attempts to put this into context.

Q6: Why does the article not give a motive for the shooting?

A6: Investigators have not made any public comment on what the motive might have been. The media has suggested several possibilities, but they are all speculative at the current time.

Q7: I heard [something] about [someone] who supposedly could have some [possible] connection to the crime...why isn't this in the article?

A7: Since the shooting occurred, news reports, especially the early ones, have reported on connections that various people might have had with the crime, but those reports have usually turned out to be erroneous and have maligned innocent people. If you have come to this talk page to post a theory that is not supported by multiple up-to-date reliable sources, please note that Wikipedia policies about living persons apply across the entire encyclopedia. Posts that are judged to be against Wikipedia policies will be removed.

Q8: I heard that Adam Lanza's death record said that he died the day before the shooting.

A8: Numerous blogs have claimed this, but they have all cited a page on www.genealogy.com, which is not a reliable source and has a disclaimer about its accuracy. Unless this is confirmed by mainstream media sources, it will not be added to the article.

Q9: Why isn't there a separate article about Adam Lanza or other members of the Lanza family?

A9: This issue has been previously discussed at least four times on this talk page as seen in the following Archive pages:

The general editorial consensus of these discussions was that there is not enough notability for an Adam Lanza Wikipedia article to be sustained on its own and that, unless new information from reliable sources is presented, any possible Adam Lanza article would essentially be a WP:CONTENTFORK of this article. Also, this Question/Answer is being posted here in the FAQ to let present and future readers that this matter has been discussed before, not to forestall any further discussion.

Q10: I heard Adam Lanza's YouTube channel was discovered. Why isn't it in the article?

A10: Despite compelling circumstantial evidence, no reliable sources have reported on Lanza's supposed YouTube channel. As such, any speculation regarding his YouTube activity is original research, which is unsuitable for Wikipedia articles.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

speedy keep, 15 December 2012, see discussion.
speedy keep, 14 December 2012, see discussion.

A news item involving Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 14 December 2012.

Wikipedia

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 14, 2015 and December 14, 2022.

While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard.

Connecticut Mid‑importance

	Connecticut portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Connecticut, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Connecticut on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConnecticutWikipedia:WikiProject ConnecticutTemplate:WikiProject ConnecticutConnecticut articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph of many requests from Article Feedback be added to this article.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Serial, mass, and spree killers High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Serial Killer task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Disaster management Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster management, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Disaster management on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Disaster managementWikipedia:WikiProject Disaster managementTemplate:WikiProject Disaster managementDisaster management articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics: American / Gun politics Mid‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by American politics task force (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by Gun politics task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

Schools Mid‑importance

	Schools portal This article is related to WikiProject Schools, a collaborative effort to write quality articles about schools around the world. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page.SchoolsWikipedia:WikiProject SchoolsTemplate:WikiProject Schoolsschool articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

2010s High‑importance

	2010s portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject 2010s, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2010s on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.2010sWikipedia:WikiProject 2010sTemplate:WikiProject 2010s2010s articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

"How does Wikipedia deal with a mass shooting? A frenzied start gives way to a few core editors". Nieman Journalism Lab. December 18, 2012.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

May 22 to 28, 2022

Adam Lanza page

I think Lanza himself is notable enough to merit him having his own page. James Holmes, Seung-Hui Cho, Nikolas Cruz, Stephen Paddock, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, and Eric Harris + Dylan Klebold all have their own articles. I am asking for input before I go and create the page, though. Praiawart (talk) 00:38, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the FAQ, specifically Q9. What is new that hasn't been discussed before? Acroterion (talk) 01:02, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think he is notable enough. It will allow us to give him more information without overloading the article. FriendlyNeighborhoodAspie (talk) 23:49, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits & reverts

The following content has been removed and restored and removed and restored several times:

When police interviewed survivors, a teacher recalled hearing Lanza curse several times, as well as telling them to, "Look at me!", "Come over here!", and "Look at them!"<ref name="Michael P. Mayko and John Pirro" />

which resolves to the following:

<ref name="Michael P. Mayko and John Pirro">{{cite web|first1=Michael P.|last1=Mayko|first2=John|last2=Pirro|url=http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/The-voices-of-children-who-saw-evil-5104362.php|title=The voices of children who saw evil|newspaper=[[The News-Times]]|date=December 31, 2013|access-date=January 3, 2014|archive-date=January 2, 2014|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140102131829/http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/The-voices-of-children-who-saw-evil-5104362.php|url-status=live}}</ref>

This reference is valid, verifiable & reliable. Unless there is some reason I am unaware of, the sentence and the references should stay. But, let's discuss. Shearonink (talk) 03:48, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this source, so it should not be removed without discussion and consensus.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:13, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Keep it. I accidentally deleted my edit summary, but the claim made in the article isn't that Lanza said those things with certainty, but that a teacher recalls him saying them. That is verifiable and the source is solid. Happieryet (talk) 21:26, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Let Me in" Quote

I'm leaning toward removing either the entire following paragraph from the article or just the second sentence of it: "Music teacher Maryrose Kristopik, 50, barricaded her fourth graders in a tiny supply closet during the rampage. One of Kristopik's students later said that Lanza arrived moments later, pounding on the door and yelling, "Let me in," while the students in Kristopik's class quietly hid inside."

Lanza pounding on the door and shouting "Let me in," or even approaching Kristopik's classroom is not corroborated by any of the official reports or by any sources published after the week following the shooting. This, despite the fact that many survivor testimonials are included in the DESPP report. Kristopik herself, as far as I can tell, has never claimed Lanza approached the door of the room, despite being interviewed shortly after the shooting.

At risk of leaning on original research, if we look at page A117 of the appendix to the State Attorney's report, Kristopik's room is on the complete opposite side of the school from where the shootings occurred. More importantly, the timelines of the shooting in the State Attorney and DESPP reports seem to preclude the possibility of Lanza ever being in that area of the school. I just don't think its possible. WP:BNS seems to apply. Thoughts? Happieryet (talk) 02:26, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Accounts of what happened during the shooting by the survivors are sometimes unclear due to the panic of the situation. It is probably best to stick to what is in the official reports.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:45, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]