Talk:Toyota

Toyota History page?

@Stepho-wrs brought up an interesting point in one of his edit summaries. The history section on this article is longer than the History of Toyota article, which begs the question, what's the point of having a standalone history article?

As far as I see it, one of two things should happen:

1) We decide the more extensive history section on the Toyota article should be merged into the History of Toyota article, and a shorter summary provided on the Toyota article.

2) We decide the history section on the Toyota article is acceptable and the History of Toyota article is deleted.

Thoughts? -- RickyCourtney (talk) 00:36, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Ah, I was hoping that would strike a chord with somebody ;)

My vote would be option 1. Merge it all into History of Toyota and leave only one (maybe 2) paragraphs here. Mainly because the history section takes about a third of an already large article.  Stepho  talk  01:28, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I wanted Toyota Company to know that my daughter and her family bought a Toyota Camry in 2009. She is a nurse and she drove it for years. Her and her husban have two daughters one in College and the other will be a Sr. in high school next year. After my daughter bought her a new Toyota her husband drove the Camry for more years. Now the youngest daughter is driving the Camry with way up in the 300 thousand miles on her. I call the Camry a her because they named her Cammy years ago. I just thought you needed to know that this family will never buy anything else but a Toyota.We are all praying she (Cammy) has another year of life in her before they have to start another college tuition. Oh they bought the oldest daughter a Toyota also. I don't know how they will afford another car payment and these girls daddy is going to have another vehicle to. If I could buy a new vehicle it would be a Toyota also because I'm a believer 107.122.109.12 (talk) 21:32, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

This article's history section in its current condition is deeply problematic and in dire need of improvement, as it contains vast swaths cited only to primary sources — usually web pages administered by Toyota. Any statements for which independent secondary sources cannot be found should be removed because it violates WP:NPOV. Accordingly, if there are any independent secondary sources (i.e. automotive magazines such as Motor Trend, Car and Driver, etc.) that can be referred to for historical information, that would be a major asset to this article. Left guide (talk) 00:19, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

NPOV

@Mr.choppers: Could you clarify which section exactly do you think looks like NPOV? Carfan568 (talk) 20:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

I saw lots of citations being removed, most of it unassailable although perhaps it can be pruned a bit and clearly the references need proper formatting. Personally, I believe that EVs are not the entire answer and Toyota may be proven right in the long run, but I do not think that gives me the right to remove cited content - and there is a LOT of (possibly misguided) commentary suggesting Toyota is not green, from the White House to Tesla stans to various environmental groups. I will just include the very first section, which uses one citation from Bloomberg and one from Citizen.org: Toyota as of 2023 sells only a miniscule proportion of battery vehicles, even in its long-term, optimistic projections there are negligible; Toyota has therefore been strongly criticized by environmental and public interest groups for not adopting battery electric vehicles fast enough and not making strong commitments to switch to battery vehicles. In a session in parallel with the G-7 Meeting 2023 May, Akhio Toyoda said that battery electric vehicles are not the future, instead offering a mix of fossil-fuel powered cars, some battery vehicles, and hydrogen cars.

Anyhow, I welcome others' comments.

References

 Mr.choppers | ✎  21:32, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

The BEV information from the "Toyota's Influence on Climate Change" section was already covered at the "Battery electric vehicles" and "Greenwashing controversies" sections, and I think any new information that was added on this topic should be integrated into the already existing sections with a neutral tone instead of creating an unbalanced new section, a significant part of which was just copied from this rejected article. The misleading marketing stuff in the "Controversies" section needed a lot of pruning and rewriting to have a more neutral tone, and there were some clear errors, like stating that "emissions from hybrid vehicles were, on average, over two and a half times those of official test values" when the sources were talking about plug-in hybrids, which were not even the topic of the section. Many of the sources also had an obvious EV bias. I didn't really delete the core information from the misleading marketing/self-charging hybrid section and I think my rewriting did make that section more neutral, so I would appreciate if at least those edits could be reinstated, potentially with some changes. Carfan568 (talk) 22:38, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

That sounds better than just deleting things. Best,  Mr.choppers | ✎  00:50, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I'll move the relevant information from "Toyota's Influence on Climate Change" to the other sections then. I'll also reinstate the changes to the misleading marketing/self-charging hybrid section since you didn't seem to have particular objections against them, but if you think I may have deleted some relevant details, please mention it so we can add them back. As it stands, however, I think these sections clearly need improvement. Carfan568 (talk) 15:30, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Sports Sponsorships Section

Is the section on Sports Sponsorships meant to be exhaustive of either Toyota's sports sponsorship activities or their sponsorship of sports venues? Because if it is designed as such, then there seem to be examples where the article misses some specific, notable examples; for instance, Toyota Field (Madison, Alabama) is not included on the list. EEEcon5761 (talk) 03:37, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

It is just the more notable ones. Considering that the list is already US heavy, do we need to list more US based sponsorships?  Stepho  talk  10:19, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

That’s fair. I was mostly interested in whether or not the list was designed to be exhaustive. I have since found the list, List of sports venues with the name Toyota, which serves as a more exhaustive list of venues. EEEcon5761 (talk) 06:20, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

The section (like any other section or article on Wikipedia) is meant to be as exhaustive as the independent sources deem so, but as it stands now, most of the sports sponsorships section is inappropriate for an encyclopedia because it is cited to primary sources — publications authored by the involved companies. It should be supported by independent secondary coverage such as these two sources for Cricket Australia. Left guide (talk) 01:45, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Primary sources

There are lots of primary sources, just finished sweeping the whole article for them. I spent some time checking and tagging the affected statements and sections to make them easier to identify. I plan to supplant some of the statements with secondary sources as my time, interest, and ability allows. Anyone else who is willing to assist with this endeavor would be much appreciated, thanks. Left guide (talk) 03:15, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

As I said in the history section above, we should delete the entire section and leave just a single paragraph pointing to History of Toyota.

Much of the information deleted from here can be copied to there - with the referencing issues you found being addressed there.

Some useful sources are:

• "Against all odds - The story of the Toyota Motor Corporation and the family that created it" by Yukiyasu Togo and William Wartma
• "Lexus - The relentless pursuit" by Chester C. Dawson III
• "Toyota - fifty years in Motion" by Eiji Toyoda (close to the company but still displays some of its dirty laundry, especially during WWII that most others skip)
• "The Wheel Extended", issue 3/4, 1987, sanitised company mag but handy background
• "Toyota - A History of the first 50 Years", company book but also handy as a sanitised background
• "75 years", sanitised company website but quite detailed and will help you to research further

Obviously the lower items on the list are less desirable but provide helpful background and provide items to do further research on.  Stepho  talk  05:14, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

@Stepho-wrs: thanks for the thoughtful response. I think the best way to hash this out would be to follow the (secondary) sources in terms of their scope and breadth of coverage. So if they talk a lot about history, so should we, if they talk a lot about hybrid vehicles, so should we, if they talk a lot about sports sponsorships, so should we, etc etc. I’m not too sure I agree with the idea of gutting almost the entire history section, because so far I’ve found that many of the details are actually covered in secondary sources, and history is generally an important and well-covered aspect of an encyclopedic topic. I’ll probably have more thoughts on this matter (and dig into your sources above) at some point soon, but much of my on-wiki attention right now is devoted to working on some music articles, though please feel free to respond with additional thoughts or ideas if you wish. Left guide (talk) 05:52, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Agreed that history is important. That's why we have a whole article on it at History of Toyota. We should not duplicate our effort in maintaining both of them. And by having all the history in History of Toyota (and none here) we can make this article less verbose without losing any information. Of course, History of Toyota should be updated from this article before we delete stuff from here and should have better (non-company) references too.  Stepho  talk  08:11, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Ok, that makes more sense now, I wouldn't mind if you start trimming excessive undue content from this article and transferring it to the History of Toyota article. If I think something that you remove in an edit should stay here, I’ll restore/revert and we can continue discussing, but in general I trust your editorial judgment on this. Left guide (talk) 08:34, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi

Hello I have a 14-year-old son and we live in Iran My son is very creative and intelligent and he has only one wish to work in the Toyota car factory to invent the best and most modern car in the world. Can you fulfill my son's wish? Mar.kian465 (talk) 07:40, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, this talk page is only for improving the Wikipedia article. We have no connection to the company.  Stepho  talk  08:01, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

"Totoyotata" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Totoyotata has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 22 § Totoyotata until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:13, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2024

Remove the duplicate text in the following section

As of 2023, only a small only a small proportion of the vehicles the company sells are of battery electric, which has prompted criticism by some environmental and public interest groups. Ardasayin03 (talk) 08:41, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done  Stepho  talk  09:39, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

New cats

Please could somebody add Category:Companies in the Dow Jones Global Titans 50 and Category:Companies in the Nikkei 225 ? 78.148.152.27 (talk) 22:33, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

 Done  Stepho  talk  00:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Toyota sai language

Hi I hv toyota sai hybrid 2010 model I want to change map & system language Japanese to English Pl guide me how to change 49.224.66.40 (talk) 08:52, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but this talk page is for improving the Toyota article, not a forum. See WP:NOTAFORUM.  Stepho  talk  09:08, 19 March 2024 (UTC)