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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 82.176.221.176 (talk) at 08:50, 24 August 2023 (→2023 Tver plane crash). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Deaths needing a better source

I've added a few hundred missing deaths over the past month. There are a few for whom I couldn't find a non-social media source. Perhaps somebody else here might have better luck? (feel free to edit below if a source is found or add to the list if it's helpful) Star Garnet (talk) 06:15, 22 June 2023 (UTC) Updated July 5. Star Garnet (talk) 17:48, 5 July 2023 (UTC) And August 5. Star Garnet (talk) 22:08, 5 August 2023 (UTC) [reply]

Extended content

Section for delayed reported deaths

Hi, I always check DEATHS IN 2023 to find out who dies. WHile I do check usually a week back I think a page or section for delayed celeb deaths is needed. I use this example that I just found out about on another page. https://obscurevideoanddvd.blogspot.com/2023/08/rip-sharon-farrell-1940-2023.html

Who would think to look back to May for a recently reported death. So I would suggest a subpage or page for notable deaths that are not reported till 2 weeks or more later. I would say keep the death up for 2 weeks then it can be deleted. 2603:7000:BE00:4C1:89C7:4BB7:9469:78BC (talk) 15:22, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why would we put in a name that passed away months earlier just because someone might’ve first heard about the death months later? It’s really not a big leap to go “oh she died in May, I’ll go look at her entry in Deaths in May 2023”. A whole subsection for “delayed” deaths is worthless. Rusted AutoParts 15:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a news update facility and never has been. If you add months to your watchlist you'll find out soon enough, or even research back manually like I and many others do. Ref (chew)(do) 16:18, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean add months to your watchlist? Also I do disagree to a point with your first line. While not a news update facility it is the internet living encyclopedia. So if you have a topic such as Deaths In 2023 that is updated multiple times a day it becomes a major reference point. Being a major reference point that is updated why would we not update just reported deaths that happened a time ago? Would it really be much work to do a subpage of Late reported deaths? Even more so leaving a link to the persons page up for only 2 weeks? Its not rebulding the whole wikipedia website. For those with the talent I bet they could create the page in less than 5 minutes. Then only the oddly late reported death here & there would even be on the page so very little upkeep. How can you research back manually on something you dont know about? If I didnt go on that other website I would not have known Sharon died. Are you saying there is a tool on wiki that informs people of random deaths? I dont understand the resistance to a simple page? 2603:7000:BE00:4C1:89C7:4BB7:9469:78BC (talk) 18:54, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
”Would it really be much work to do a subpage of Late reported deaths?”. There is literally a “Previous Months” subsection at the bottom of the page to guide readers to other months, what are you talking about? Rusted AutoParts 19:06, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are comparing apples to oranges. I am talking about deaths that are just being reported about months later. You are saying just look up previous months deaths. But I am talking about situations such as Sharon Farrell where the person may have died in May but the news was not released till August. 2603:7000:BE00:4C1:89C7:4BB7:9469:78BC (talk) 20:19, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not comparing anything, I'm highlighting an objective fact. You're asking for a needless page for people who weren't revealed to have died until a period of time later. It's not that highlightable a thing to make an entire Wikipedia article for, nor would it be needing a category. Rusted AutoParts 20:37, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Surely you know what a watchlist is? Every registered editor has one. In a computer browser the link can be found at the top, third from the right. Ref (chew)(do) 20:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
“oh she died in May, I’ll go look at her entry in Deaths in May 2023”. Unless you found out how would you know she died? That is the whole point. I dont want to look up the person, I want the news of who died. So a subsection is not worthless if the death was not known about. 2603:7000:BE00:4C1:89C7:4BB7:9469:78BC (talk) 18:47, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The three ways you’d find her having died is: through the news, which clearly state she died May 15; her Wiki page, which states based off the news she died May 15; or or someone telling you she died, which will prompt your to do one of the previous options. It’s not difficult so yes, this proposed section is completely worthless. Just view her entry on Deaths in May 2023. Rusted AutoParts 19:03, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But the news of her May death was not released till August. Her wiki page NOW says she died in May. Only because the news was released in August. It did not say in June she died in May. I do not get the backlash against a page for late reported deaths. Would a page like that affect you directly? 2603:7000:BE00:4C1:89C7:4BB7:9469:78BC (talk) 20:24, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is zero reason to create another deaths page for people “late reported”, that is really silly. It doesn’t have to directly affect me to declare this. There’s zero point. Rusted AutoParts 20:29, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Go to Template:Deaths by month and year and add every page to your watchlist. Then as soon as someone is added to any of those months, you will know about it immediately. WWGB (talk) 13:22, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Johnny Johnson

Interested editors may want to contribute to the discussion at Talk:Deaths in March 2023 whether Johnny Johnson meets the criteria for inclusion in these pages. Thanks, WWGB (talk) 10:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 Tver plane crash

Pronouncing the two notable occupants as dead (if they were actually IN the aircraft) is not a truthful statement within the entry added recently, as at this post's timestamp, and relies on massive assumptions. Both of the notables' own articles state "presumed dead", and the event article itself states that there are "unconfirmed reports" that the two were on the transport at all. This is a clear case of jumping the gun for this list of what are supposed to be reliably sourced deaths. If you can't accept my recent change to the lead-in used in the Deaths in 2023 list, then the whole entry should be removed until deaths ARE confirmed - unequivocably and reliably so. Ref (chew)(do) 19:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yevgeny Prigozhin just died. Carman9990 (talk) 21:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Still not confirmed at his article. Ref (chew)(do) 00:44, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Updated source for our page. I don't care about individuals' pages. Wyliepedia @ 00:53, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is frankly ridiculous that the deaths of Prighozhin and Utkin are being left off this page - every single respectabele media outlet is reporting on it, Prighozhin's own Wagner-group is confirming it, public gestures of mourning in Russia have been reported, world leaders are commenting on it, the Russian air travel authorities are reporting that the two were on the passenger list and there is absolutely no evidence to give the slightest creedence to assumptions they weren't on board. Leaving this out is just plain silly, and goes against common sense and sensible application of Wikipedia guidelines. This kind of thing is harming Wikipedia. 82.176.221.176 (talk) 08:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Entries here are based on absolutely certain facts supported by reliable sources. Currently (see my timestamp), although the esteemed BBC seem certain that the notables have died, other respected outlets are waiting to see. As should we. Ref (chew)(do) 08:11, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And that is exactly what I mean by abusing or misapplying Wikipedia policies. There is no reasonable doubt. There are confirmations from the aviation authorities and from the Wagner group itself. These are good enough for gold-standard news media, including the BBC as you mention. Wiki guidelines are now misapplied to keep this out - and why? There is no good reason. It's just another example of the decentralized bureaucracy that has formed and is seriously harming Wikipedia - the way guidelines are bent and selectively applied for the apparent sake of bureaucracy itself. Disturbing. 82.176.221.176 (talk) 08:24, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I mean, let's look at this in the abstract: a plane crash has been confirmed. The fact that 10 dead have been recovered and that the authorities state there are no survivors has been confirmed. The passenger and crew list has been released by aviation authorities, and it contains 10 names. The organization Prighozhin led confirms his death. All of this is reported by numerous sources considered undoubtedly reliable by Wikipedia. There is no way this would be considered insufficient sourcing for reporting the death of anyone else. The only argument not to list Prighozhin and Utkin is that the Russian *government* has not given confirmation. Even though there is no reason to assume they ever will/would explicitly do so. This is Kafka-level bizarre. 82.176.221.176 (talk) 08:50, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

High profile but uncertain? (Yevgeny Prigozhin)

[2]. @Folengo . I was expecting to see Prigozhin mentioned on Main Page in Recent Deaths. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:06, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is not the place to discuss the Main Page. WWGB (talk) 07:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's as may be - if deaths are not confirmed beyond doubt, it certainly won't appear there, as it shouldn't here. Ref (chew)(do) 08:08, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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