But I think that I've now got the right formulas now for the gnomon angles at last.
Where do I get them ?
I derived them - not by any fancy means like rotation matrices or quaternions; but rather through good old-fashioned 3-D Euclidean geometry.
By this I mean that I constructed physical models of the reclining-declining dial geometry using cardboard sheets for planes and strips of wire for optical paths and pertinent geometry lines/angles.
I chose to do it this way as :
1) The results are far more concrete and convincing when this method is employed. This is particularly true in the reclining-declining dial case as there are many different formulas published for its hour angle and its gnomon angles.
2) The people who build these dials will generally come from a trades background. This means that they would generally have begun apprenticeships at 16 - 17 and their math level will be up to UK GCSE/O-level or French Brevet standard -- i.e. Euclidean geometry, basic trigonometry and basic algebra. My method is followable by people at this standard.
In due course I plan to submit a paper on this method - as well as the relevant diagrams (using Google SketchUp) for the vital geometrical relationships - to the North American Sundial Society.
The orientation switch integer for generalizing the hour angle formula over all dial declinations is the only 'novelty' added to the existing nomenclature. I find it handy when programming.
If you have any points to make on the actual formulas presented in Wiki by me or want to offer alternatives for discussion, please feel free.
I am enjoying the links personally but having difficulty in seeing how all this can be justified under WP:NOR. I would be inclined to keep the published sources (right or wrong) and include the improvements (unpublished corrections wrapped in a {{efn}} template that links to the {{notelist}} footnote. Rest assured I accept your maths as being superior.
What I was about to do was to change all the notation which I got from Waugh, Mayall & Mayall to the agreed symbols used by and recommended by the BSS- but that is also on hold while I sort out a useable python library.
It is interesting that fr:Cadran incliné-déclinant doesnt exist but all other types fr:Cadran déclinant have separate page- I haven't analysed which notation convention they are using- but I suspect that even there they are excluded most readers by using Greek letters which are not taught at brévet/ GCSE level.
Well, there's no original research here. Simply the same results via a more traditional and more workmanlike method.
The hour angle formula is the same (bar using reclination angle instead of inclination) as those presented by Snyder and others :
The gnomon angle formulas are the same as those presented in the BSS Formulae webpage, at least the dial-plate angle (the "style height" in BSS parlance) once you allow for their defining inclination w.r.t. the rear horizontal rather than the front (i.e. sun side) horizontal.
Hi Mr Rutter.
It seems that I owe you an apology for having given you so much grief by way of other posters rejecting my hour-angle formulae !
But I shall make no apology at all for the hour-angle formulae themselves. I am confident that they are correct since I derived them two ways - and moreover since they square with those of Snyder [ref. above], allowing for his nomenclature definition.
The gnomon-plate and the substyle-noon angles are also consistent with those quoted in some other sources. LIkewise with the critical angle expression for the reclined-declined dial.
I'd intended putting out a paper detailing my derivations but other obligations intervened. Hopefully this summer.
May God give you strength in your thankless task here.
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It was good to meet you at the London meetup today. The article I mentioned, which uses one of your photos, is wrap reel. I am generally interested in textile topics so will look out for you in this area now. Andrew D. (talk) 22:19, 11 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Richard Watts Charities
Clem. I've corrected a minor typo (which was nothing to do with the work you're doing). I have also changed the nested sfn to an efn for the note with an sfn for the citation. I think it makes more sense, but if you disagree you know where the revert mechanism is. I'm guessing you're still working on this, so I'll leave the cite error alone for a while. Thanks and regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:26, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I was just doing some of the donkey work then going to message you to ask your opinion- I stop now and let you have a go with the hard ones. I was on the page due to a comment at the London Meetup that there were no articles on Workhouses.(not true but nearly so). All Saints Hospital was the former Chatham Workhouse and in chasing Strood Workhouse on Gun Lane- I found Richard Watts Charities. -- Clem Rutter (talk)23:42, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Not a problem, I just didn't want to interfere unduly with your constructive work. The article is one I worked on quite a time ago, 2013 was only when it split from Richard Watts. That was only a stub back in 2011 when I started on it, but I inherited the citations. I agree they could do with a refresh - this seems like a discussion & consensus so with your help I'll be WP:BOLD! :-) Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:44, 13 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Hallo Clem, I've found a batch of your museum stubs filing under "X" in Category:Stubs - don't forget to fix the DEFAULTSORT, rather than leave it at the default XXXXX of your pattern. All the best, PamD23:54, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I am new to Wikipedia editing and seek assistance from someone more experienced to help guide me in improving the article about Manchester Grammar School. You have kindly made a large number of superb edits on the Manchester Grammar School article I wondered if you might be able to help me. As Head of Computing at this school I have a vast amount of 'original research' knowledge and wish to learn how to translate this into 'allowed content' bearing in mind the strict NOR and COI guidelines. In particular there are many sections in the article that require citations, and some existing citations that no longer work as the main school website has been changed recently and now has much reduced content. Also there is little currently published online about the school that relates to much of the existing content. The main school website at www.mgs.org is not something under my control, but I am the webmaster of the official school Virtual Learning Environment at www.mgscentral.org and therefore could place accurate content about the school on that site that could be cited on Wikipedia. I believe that under existing Wikipedia COI rules this may be deemed OK, but it is an area about which I have failed to find clear guidance on Wikipedia. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.Serendipityrules (talk) 12:26, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The tone of that article is all wrong, it is too long and reads like a prospectus. There is much dead wood to chop out, I cut off a little bit. J3Mrs (talk) 17:58, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for January 29
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Thank you for your recent articles, including Tyskie brewing museum, which I read with interest. When you create a new article, can you add the WikiProject assessment templates to the talk of that article? See the talk page of the article I mentioned for an example of what I mean. Usually it is very simple, you just add something like {{WikiProject Keyword}} to the article's talk, with keyword replaced by the associated WikiProject (ex. if it's a biography article, you would use WikiProject Biography; if it's a United States article, you would use WikiProject United States, and so on). You do not have to rate the article if you do not want to, others will do it eventually. Those templates are very useful, as they bring the articles to a WikiProject attention, and allow them to start tracking the articles through Wikipedia:Article alerts and other tools. For example, WikiProject Poland relies on such templates to generate listings such as Article Alerts, Popular Pages, Quality and Importance Matrix and the Cleanup Listing. Thanks to them, WikiProject members are more easily able to defend your work from deletion, or simply help try to improve it further. Feel free to ask me any questions if you'd like more information about using those talk page templates. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here17:26, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
VisualEditor News 2015—#1
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Thanks for your reply re. this topic. I think the point we must never forget about British private schools is that although they are charities (nominally at least - but that's another matter!), they are also businesses. Therefore, they go out of their way to promote themselves. Usually they do this in several ways - not all of which are suitable for Wikipedia.
I haven't tagged all the private school articles I've looked at recently as I think some of them are alright. But it is notable that many of the state school articles (although too thin), show a completely different emphasis in their content.
I have no problem with the schools being on Wikipedia:
As historical institutions. Many of them are old, and so of interest for that reason alone. I suppose architecture is a related subject.
As far as alumni go, most of these schools are interested in churning out high earners in the professions. This gets reflected in many of those listed as former pupils. (A quick scout around often reveals that School X has interesting alumni who are notable in other fields, esp. the arts, but who aren't useful for advertising.)
Some schools such as Stowe have features (grounds, buildings) which predate the school; others such as Dulwich have art collections, sculptures etc - all of these are non-academic points of interest more modern state schools tend to lack.
However, not sure what to do about the pushing of exam pass rates. As far as I'm concerned, private education uses a number of tricks to help raise these figures - scholarships being the most obvious. Third party references are better, but even then I'm sceptical.
Other traits I see in these articles, which come up again and again, are computing/science facilities (good, but how do they compare to elsewhere?), foreign pupils (Asians etc have been coming to British private schools since 19th century. Nothing new, or interesting), CCF (child soldier-y, again I think of limited interest to outsiders) and so on.-MacRùsgail (talk) 15:18, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I couldn't agree more and said something similar up the page, they are often too long and read like a school prospectus. What's encyclopedic about after school clubs, etc? J3Mrs (talk) 19:21, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is exactly it. We're not here to provide the schools with potential paying pupils, we're here to talk about points of interest about the school, which concern readers who want to research history etc.-MacRùsgail (talk) 14:58, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In agreement too.
There are many sections that are toxic- but unfortunately informative. Can we roll back to the Talk:Manchester Grammar School page, where we have a new editor User talk:Serendipityrules willing to take on the task of adding verifiable facts- but wanted advice on what WP policy was on conflict of interest. After fighting the spaghetti on the CofI pages I passed on advice on the way staff members should announce them selves, which he has followed. Coming from a local government background I am familiar with the declarations of substantive/non substantive- financial/nonfinancial that councillors make. WP is far slacker.
The second interesting question is what makes a satisfactory secondary source. The line I take is that anything published in a pupils day book is a secondary source, while anything published in the staff handbook maybe. In the staff handbook, the bullying policy will be signed and dated as a text agreed and published in the governors minutes of xx-blah-blah. In a state school that is a public primary source- but I can say whether academies or private schools keep these as private document. Clarification needed- I suspect it case by case.But since I used these documents- everything has gone on line, and I haven't been able to work out whether open pages on the school intranet( different from its fundraising website) have the same status as the pupils day book. Or further what we do about the closed pages which are password protected. These pages are now just about the only thing visible about a school- save the sponsored press release.
Take for example: the ficticious Blagdon Messenger- owned by Lord Retarded, who prints good articles about Blagdon Independent School, take a look at the Governors, and see three generations of Retardeds have been chair- and the currrent Head once shared a cell with Lord Retarded half-brother when they were at Eton or Broadmoor.
School histories by a sychophantic old boy?
See WP:WPSCHOOLS/AG it does suggest what should be included but does not address the question of social class bias. Indeed I haven't ever read through it completely - I get so annoyed at the class bias in the analysis. That is another story- but is it the elephant in the room.
I go back to some useless sections- because of the nature of British Society- the chair of all major sports federations will be one of the the Eton elite. Look at the Olympic Sports-- you sure as hell are not going to succeed unless you have been coached in these after school clubs at one of these bastions of privilege. WP seems to go overboard on sporting achievement-- and music and drama, all disproportionately represented by the elite.
AFAICS there's nothing much wrong with The King's School, Chester. Articles about schools that provide mainstream education to Grade 12 or 6th form are all perfectly acceptable whatever state they are in, but they should of course be cleaned up for neutrality (in this case schools on the Indian sub continent are the worst offenders, but that is more of an issue of the traditional use of flowery English in that region, as Western native English speakers who has lived and worked there will know). At least British schools articles do talk about what they teach - the vast majority of US school articls do nothing other than promote their sports results. As coordinator of for many years of WP:WPSCH, I beg users to turn their talents to improving really poor articles about schools rather than looking for reasons to poke holes in articles that are actually quite good, but just happen to be fee paying schools. Many school articles are a mess because they are written in good faith by the pupils, which does not necessarily mean thet they are conciously abusing our COI guidelines. One UK independent school that does need a constant watchful eye is Nottingham High School. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:59, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Be positive! Good faith IP school pupils (KS4/KS5) or in exceptional circumstance (KS3) are our bread and butter editors in 2025-30. Catch them young, have them contributing while they are writing obscure dissertations as undergrads. Have them patrolling our references- it will do their Uni marks a world of good. I would love to have one correcting my spelling and grammar.
The expectations we have for UK schools is far higher than the puff pieces we expect from over the Atlantic. Working to those higher standards, the evidence shows:
State schools are underrepresented- and they are the most important ones to get right.
There are a plethora of school types that have been created as the 1944 compromise has been unravelled
Private school articles, by their emphasis on flashy facilitys are playing a game with us- there is no reliable information.
Need to get the infobox right- for the sake of wikidata.
We have two new editors willing to help.
I address the problem of what our readers may want (well its a starting point). If you are a head teacher (chair of governors), you need to see how other schools are coping- the classic example is IGCSE and BTec no longer counting in the Ofsted League Tables. If you are a WP writing/reading parent you need to know what languages are taught at KS5- as this affects your choice at eleven and the feeder primary school you select at four- and ultimately where you buy a house. If you are councillor you need feedback on how you have applied the Cameron's savage cuts. Wikipedia is the Portal to all knowledge.
How do we handle this better? Do we write a series of essays on how to write an article:
How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a fee-paying public school:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers students and interested Wikipedians.
How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a fee-paying private school:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers students and interested Wikipedians.
How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a fee-paying former HMC school:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers students and interested Wikipedians.
How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a state comprehensive school under local authority support:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers students and interested Wikipedians.
How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a state comprehensive school with Academy status:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers students and interested Wikipedians.
How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a selective state school with Academy status:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers, students and interested Wikipedians.
How to write the perfect Wikipedia article on a Cameron freeschool:plaudits and pitfalls- a guide for governors, teachers, students and interested Wikipedians.
These essays must be task focused and have all the relevant details transcluded onto one page- wikilinking does not work if the document is going to be printed off to be discussed at a committee. I see this as a possible.
We have a backlog of embarrassing articles- but they are all over the place. When I am in a grizzly mood I don't mind pulling an article back together, if I could select one from a convenient list. A monthly mailing of all schools/ or schools for concern listed under subheadings as Public/Private/HMC/State/Academy/CameronFree/ with a link to the relevant essay- may be a possible idea.
Now for fantasy land- as a former chair of governors (three weeks) I would be mortified to find my schools WP was not perfect. Email a RfC to each known Chair of Governors (via the LEA). Attach an essay on -How to write the perfect Wikipedia article, and ask them to agenda it. We need to have enough resources to cope with the avalanche of requests for training and Wikipedians in Residence- and the number of new editors. Be positive - and delegate. Put together the tools- a easy CoI I template, a I would expect to see template for the talkpage...
On the problems on the subcontinent we can take the same approach- when we have a working model for the UK (or vice versa).
The one thing with a lot of state schools is that they tend to be newer, so less history, and the buildings are invariably less interesting. However, I do notice that unlike the private school articles, state school articles are pretty poor about listing alumni. I've tried to rectify this in some cases, but the simple fact is that there are so many state schools!
Regarding private school alumni, I get bored of seeing long lists of undistinguished judges and diplomats. They probably belong on either dedicated alumni lists (which I support in most cases) or in the categories. Digging around, you find out that many of these people are doing what their parents did... not much of an achievement. I'm more interested in ground-breaking novelists and painters, but they obviously don't sell a school so well! (They're often poor earners, and had colourful lives. Which interests me, but not someone trying to flog school places.)
First, let me answer what you asked about the meridian:
Yes, the French article, if it said that string F1 lines on the meridian, must have meant "meridian-plane". String F1 lies on the meridian-plane. Of course it would be clearer just to say that string F1 lies north-south.
I checked the meridian article, and it looked ok.
No doubt you already have this information, but let me send it anyway:
For a Bifilar sundial, for latitude 51.5, with the north-south string 10 centimeters above the dial-face, the east-west string should be 7.826 centimeters above the dial-face.
Point C, where the hour-lines meet, and about which the hour-lines are drawn, at 15-degree intervals, should be 6.275 centimeters behind (north of) where the two strings intersect.
I'm assuming that south is positive for y, in the co-ordinate system.
Point C is _south_ of point O. ...by h2/tan(lat). I'd mistakenly told you it was north.
Clem--
I've just realized that I got the directions backwards:
Point C is h2/tan(lat) _south_ of point O.
The reason why I initially told it to you backwards was because I was confusing the direction of the sun with the direction of the shadow.
Today or tonight, I'll go the Cadran Bifilaire wikipedia page, and change the places where I said the direction wrong.
I clarified the language at Cadran Bifilaire (English) a bit, wording things as they're said in English, fixing a few ambiguities.
That page didn't say the direction for positive X and Y, but it can be determined by the fact that, if C were North of O, that would mean that sometimes the intersection's shadow would be going around C in the wrong direction, anti-clockwise (counter-clockwise, as we say here). So point C must be south of point O.
Sorry about telling it backwards.
Ordinarily I write at the same topic-heading that I already started, but this time it seemed important enough to start a new topic heading, to maximize the chance of this message being noticed.
The hour-usability disadvantage of the Bifilar Dial (with specifics for lat 51.5, winter solstice)
Clem--
Of course the Bifilar isn't usable all day. It has that disadvantage in common with the standard flat vertical dial, the polar dial, and the nodus dial, when those dials only use one flat face.
In particular, for latitude 51.5, and with the north-south wire 10 cm above the dial-face:
At the winter solstice, in order to be usable till half an hour before sunset, a Bifilar dial would have to extend nearly 5 feet out from where the wires intersect. Obviously that dial-size isn't feasible.
So the Bifilar (like the abovementioned other dials) has an hours-usability disadvantage.
Hey ClemRutter. I've put in a submission for a presentation at Wikimania 2015 called Is Two the Magic Number?: The Co-op and New Editor Engagement through Mentorship. I'll be talking about the state of finding help spaces on en.wiki and how our new mentorship space, The Co-op, factors into that picture. Reviewing will begin soon and I'll need your help to be able to present our work. Please review our proposal and give us feedback. If you would be interested in seeing this presentation, whether you are attending or not, please add your name to the signup at the bottom of the proposal (you do not need to attend Wikimania to express interest in presentations). I, JethroBTdrop me a line on behalf of Wikipedia:Co-op.
You can now make your profile at The Co-op! Please set up your mentor profile here as soon as you are able, as the pilot begins on March 4th. It isn't very involved and should only take a minute. If you need more info about what the different skills mean (e.g. writing, communication), please refer to these descriptions.
Profile creation, invitations, and automated matching of editors, profile creation, that will be coordinated through HostBot and a few gadgets may not be ready for our pilot, and will have to be done manually until they are ready. In preparation for the pilot, please read over these instructions on how we will be manually performing these tasks until the automated components are ready. I, JethroBTdrop me a line on behalf of Wikipedia:Co-op.
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Thank you for your cross-sectional map of the Wealden Dome. It's a great image; I've spent minutes trying to explain what it instantly shows. May I point out a minor typo? "Palaeozoic" is miswritten "Palaeolzoic".
I have not seen any of them before- yes fascinating- I can think of several articles that will will host them under external links. Crude as they are, they are very complete. My latest effort has been Ellen Hooton, and this has led me to looking for illustrations of a gaited throstle frame and more particularly the Radcliffe Dandy Loom and Dandy loom sheds I can only find 4 images online so I am going to have to resort to paper! But apart from that- I am waiting to be introduced to my second grandchild- he is on his way and has an approximate eta of the 31st of March.-- Clem Rutter (talk)22:47, 15 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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The Reclining-Declining section of the Sundial Article
Clem--
I've added some comments to your comments under the Reclining-Declining heading at the Sundial Talk page.
Briefly, I agree that the forumulas given in that section are unintelligible to the general reader, and amount to a cookbook-recipe construction-instruction, whose justifiction is unknown to the reader, and which therefore isn't helpful to the reader. I also discussed the section's claim that agreement on the rigt way to make a reclining-declining dial was reached only during the last decade.
Should I have, instead, started my own new heading at the bottom, instead of adding to the one that you started?
By adding my comments to your discussion heading, in the middle of the talk-page, have I buried my comments where they won't be found? Are new comments only noticed if they're under a new heading at the bottom of the talk-page?
By the way, is this the best way to communicate, or does the Wikipedia system have a messaging-system that I should be using instead?
Do you have Mayall & Mayall's sundial book? If so, would you post, here (or to the Sundial article's talk page)Mayall & Mayall's Reclining-Declining formulas?
Or, if you prefer, you could post them to _my_ talk-page. But your talk-page, here, is the main place where I'll be looking, because it's probably more convenient for you to post here.
I am on the road- away from my books for the next two weeks. But to answer the question- yes i had one once- and I think it is on the shelf next to my two copies of Waugh. -- Clem Rutter (talk)20:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your reply, and thanks for taking the time to reply when you're traveling on vacation.
No hurry, whenever you have the time, after you return.
The reason why I ask: Specifically, as you probably know, the wikipedia Sundial article (under the Reclining-Declining heading) says that Mayall & Mayall, and Rohr as well, published incorrect Reclining-Declining formulas, and that, in fact, it's only during the last decade that there was agreement on the right way to make a Reclining-Declining sundial.
Those statements should be checked, and deleted if incorrect. (Of course, merely being unsupported is enough reason to not allow them at wikipedi, given that they contradict everything previously published. Notability?!).
I like sundials, and I don't like to be contentious about a subject that like. The Internet has too much contentiousness. But incorrect (or even unsupported) statements that contradict everything previously written have no place at wikipedia.
With Citoid in VisualEditor, you click the 'book with bookmark' icon and paste in the URL for a reliable source:
Citoid looks up the source for you and returns the citation results. Click the green "Insert" button to accept its results and add them to the article:
After inserting the citation, you can change it. Select the reference, and click the "Edit" button in the context menu to make changes.
The user guide has more information about how to use VisualEditor.
Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has fixed many bugs and worked on VisualEditor's performance, the Citoid reference service, and support for languages with complex input requirements. Status reports are posted on Mediawiki.org. The worklist for April through June is available in Phabricator.
The weekly task triage meetings continue to be open to volunteers, each Wednesday at 11:00 (noon) PDT (18:00 UTC). You do not need to attend the meeting to nominate a bug for consideration as a Q4 blocker. Instead, go to Phabricator and "associate" the Editing team's Q4 blocker project with the bug. Learn how to join the meetings and how to nominate bugs at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/Portal.
Recent improvements
VisualEditor is now substantially faster. In many cases, opening the page in VisualEditor is now faster than opening it in the wikitext editor. The new system has improved the code speed by 37% and network speed by almost 40%.
The Editing team is slowly adding auto-fill featuresfor citations. This is currently available only at the French, Italian, and English Wikipedias. The Citoid service takes a URL or DOI for a reliable source, and returns a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. After creating it, you will be able to change or add information to the citation, in the same way that you edit any other pre-existing citation in VisualEditor. Support for ISBNs, PMIDs, and other identifiers is planned. Later, editors will be able to improve precision and reduce the need for manual corrections by contributing to the Citoid service's definitions for each website.
Citoid requires good TemplateData for your citation templates. If you would like to request this feature for your wiki, please post a request in the Citoid project on Phabricator. Include links to the TemplateData for the most important citation templates on your wiki.
The special character inserter has been improved, based upon feedback from active users. After this, VisualEditor was made available to all users of Wikipedias on the Phase 5 list on 30 March. This affected 53 mid-size and smaller Wikipedias, including Afrikaans, Azerbaijani, Breton, Kyrgyz, Macedonian, Mongolian, Tatar, and Welsh.
Work continues to support languages with complex requirements, such as Korean and Japanese. These languages use input method editors ("IMEs”). Recent improvements to cursoring, backspace, and delete behavior will simplify typing in VisualEditor for these users.
The design for the image selection process is now using a "masonry fit" model. Images in the search results are displayed at the same height but at variable widths, similar to bricks of different sizes in a masonry wall, or the "packed" mode in image galleries. This style helps you find the right image by making it easier to see more details in images.
You can now drag and drop categories to re-arrange their order of appearance on the page.
The pop-up window that appears when you click on a reference, image, link, or other element, is called the "context menu". It now displays additional useful information, such as the destination of the link or the image's filename. The team has also added an explicit "Edit" button in the context menu, which helps new editors open the tool to change the item.
Invisible templates are marked by a puzzle piece icon so they can be interacted with. Users also will be able to see and edit HTML anchors now in section headings.
Users of the TemplateData GUI editor can now set a string as an optional text for the 'deprecated' property in addition to boolean value, which lets you tell users of the template what they should do instead (T90734).
Looking ahead
The special character inserter in VisualEditor will soon use the same special character list as the wikitext editor. Admins at each wiki will also have the option of creating a custom section for frequently used characters at the top of the list. Instructions for customizing the list will be posted at mediawiki.org.
The team is discussing a test of VisualEditor with new users, to see whether they have met their goals of making VisualEditor suitable for those editors. The timing is unknown, but might be relatively soon.
Can you translate from English into any other language? Please check this list to see whether more interface translations are needed for your language. Contact us to get an account if you want to help!
File requests for language-appropriate "Bold" and "Italic" icons for the character formatting menu in Phabricator.
Subscribe, unsubscribe or change the page where this newsletter is delivered at Meta. If you aren't reading this in your favorite language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you!
Hi Dave:I did a lot of correspondence on Michaels talk page see this version and I will do, what I said I would do somewhere around [1] which was to have a look at the issue when I am reunited with my books.
I am now back from doing a Wikipedia tutorial session 280 miles from here in Lancaster and doing quite a bit of photography. I have been logging in, and seen the help you have been offering Michael, but it was pointless for me to join in before I have a clear few hours to spend even to read the comments. I will come back some time tomorrow with a few ideas.
Are you 200 miles from Lancaster, in England? I should have been born in Liverpool. but the Germans had put a time-bomb on the roof of the hospital, so my mother did a quick dash to a nursing home in West Kirby, so I was born there. But that was long ago. For the past 40+ years, I've lived here in Canada, so a meet-up would be difficult. Sorry!
I'm going to be busy for the next few days, so I won't be doing much on Wikipedia. I hope, without much confidence, that I will find it wondrously improved when I get back.
About the same time- my father, who had spent 6 years in the peace time RAF, was transferred to Windsor, Ontario to be trained to operate radios, navigation equiptment and fly advanced aircraft- each time being moved on to something more urgent. He missed out on rationing, austerity, bombs and things.
I have two weeks, before I must visit the Lancashire again. At worst, the article will be identical to your last edit- at best it will similar but far less verbose. Keep you posted. -- Clem Rutter (talk)07:46, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Poor guy!
My father was in the RAF, too. He had just qualified as a doctor when war broke out. He volunteered on the first day, and was assigned as a medic on an air station. He spent the whole war on air stations around the UK, and left the RAF with the rank of Flight Lieutenant. The whole time, he never once flew in a plane. They gave him a gun, because some of his patients were German airmen who had been shot down, but they never gave him any bullets to put in it.
Hi Clem: I see you and Michael seem to have reached some sort of truce over the declining-reclining sundial. That's good. What else is new? DOwenWilliams (talk) 18:55, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
On the wikifront I have been over on Commons taking, tagging and uploading 300+ photos bbof the scenery around Lancaster University where I was helping at a Editathon with members of the London Mathematics Society. I think the entry requirement is 2 PhDs- which contrasts with teaching sums to 11 to 16 year olds- and Computer Science to bright but over-confident 17yr olds, who have an unshakeable belief that their POV is the only POV. We have a little lull on the Sundial page- I bought the NASS CD of previous articles and I am awaiting its arrival- it should be fun to read- and we'll never be short of a reference again.
The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Article: Sundial. Topic Section: Reclining-Decllining.". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 3 May 2015.
Disagree. WP:RFM/G#PRIOR Can I point you to the long conversation I have had with Michael on his talk page where I am attempting to keep the discussion contained. Have a look also at the conversations with User:DOwenWilliams on my talk page, and the conversation he has had with Michael in the Talk:Sundial#« Cadran bifilaire », Why ? and much that follows. None of this suggests that every other method has been explored, which is a precondition for this procedure- it does suggest a degree of impatience, and a request from Michael for two editors to enter into a considerable amount of WP:OR. If the Mediation Committee does wish to get involved so early in the process I am sure that DOwenWilliams and myself will be willing to assist in every way- but in my case after the UK General Election when I will be less occupied in RL.-- Clem Rutter (talk) 10:49, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
it is not helpful to split the conversation onto another page. The OR is coming on nicely, the CD has arrived, the address handwritten by Fred Sawyer himself. There are twenty years plus of of copies of Compendium- each one will take a month to read!-- Clem Rutter (talk)10:49, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
although I am just about aware of the level of work this will generate I agree with you not at this moment accepting mediation. I have only had one contact with this editor ([2].) if I can assist in anyway I will try Edmund Patrick – confer19:02, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The request for formal mediation concerning Article: Sundial. Topic Section: Reclining-Decllining., to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Halton-with-Aughton, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Coke, Caton and Forges. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
I'm anticipating the results of the UK election, too. After all, I am still a British citizen. Here in Canada, we've already had one electoral shock this week, when the government of Alberta, which had been conservative for more than 40 years, was dumped down to third place, behind the New Democratic Party (roughly like UK Labour) and the Wild Rose Party, which is a rather primitive right-wing affair. (The wild rose is the provincial flower of Alberta. It grows all over the place there.)
Re the sundial article. I've been doing some edits, which you'll see in the latest version. I think my changes are worth keeping. If you put up your sndbox version, please keep my stuff about the empirical method, and also the small change to the equation of time graph.
When you click on a link to an article, you now see more information:
The link tool has been re-designed:
There are separate tabs for linking to internal and external pages.
The user guide has more information about how to use VisualEditor.
Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has created new interfaces for the link and citation tools, as well as fixing many bugs and changing some elements of the design. Some of these bugs affected users of VisualEditor on mobile devices. Status reports are posted on Mediawiki.org. The worklist for April through June is available in Phabricator.
A test of VisualEditor's effect on new editors at the English Wikipedia has just completed the first phase. During this test, half of newly registered editors had VisualEditor automatically enabled, and half did not. The main goal of the study is to learn which group was more likely to save an edit and to make productive, unreverted edits. Initial results will be posted at Meta later this month.
Recent improvements
Auto-fill featuresfor citations are available at a few Wikipedias through the citoid service. Citoid takes a URL or DOI for a reliable source, and returns a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. If Citoid is enabled on your wiki, then the design of the citation workflow changed during May. All citations are now created inside a single tool. Inside that tool, choose the tab you want (⧼citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-auto⧽, ⧼citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-manual⧽, or ⧼citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-reuse⧽). The cite button is now labeled with the word "⧼visualeditor-toolbar-cite-label⧽" rather than a book icon, and the autofill citation dialog now has a more meaningful label, "⧼Citoid-citeFromIDDialog-lookup-button⧽", for the submit button.
The link tool has been redesigned based on feedback from Wikipedia editors and user testing. It now has two separate sections: one for links to articles and one for external links. When you select a link, its pop-up context menu shows the name of the linked page, a thumbnail image from the linked page, Wikidata's description, and/or appropriate icons for disambiguation pages, redirect pages and empty pages. Search results have been reduced to the first five pages. Several bugs were fixed, including a dark highlight that appeared over the first match in the link inspector (T98085).
The special character inserter in VisualEditor now uses the same special character list as the wikitext editor. Admins at each wiki can also create a custom section for frequently used characters at the top of the list. Please read the instructions for customizing the list at mediawiki.org. Also, there is now a tooltip to describing each character in the special character inserter (T70425).
Several improvements have been made to templates. When you search for a template to insert, the list of results now contains descriptions of the templates. The parameter list inside the template dialog now remains open after inserting a parameter from the list, so that users don’t need to click on "⧼visualeditor-dialog-transclusion-add-param⧽" each time they want to add another parameter (T95696). The team added a new property for TemplateData, "Example", for template parameters. This optional, translatable property will show up when there is text describing how to use that parameter (T53049).
The design of the main toolbar and several other elements have changed slightly, to be consistent with the MediaWiki theme. In the Vector skin, individual items in the menu are separated visually by pale gray bars. Buttons and menus on the toolbar can now contain both an icon and a text label, rather than just one or the other. This new design feature is being used for the cite button on wikis where the Citoid service is enabled.
The team has released a long-desired improvement to the handling of non-existent images. If a non-existent image is linked in an article, then it is now visible in VisualEditor and can be selected, edited, replaced, or removed.
The weekly task triage meetings continue to be open to volunteers, each Wednesday at 12:00 (noon) PDT (19:00 UTC). Learn how to join the meetings and how to nominate bugs at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/Portal. You do not need to attend the meeting to nominate a bug for consideration as a Q4 blocker. Instead, go to Phabricator and "associate" the Editing team's Q4 blocker project with the bug.
If your Wikivoyage, Wikibooks, Wikiversity, or other community wants to have VisualEditor made available by default to contributors, then please contact James Forrester.
If you would like to request the Citoid automatic reference feature for your wiki, please post a request in the Citoid project on Phabricator. Include links to the TemplateData for the most important citation templates on your wiki.
Subscribe, unsubscribe or change the page where this newsletter is delivered at Meta. If you aren't reading this in your favorite language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:31, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nomination for deletion of Template:Listed building England
Hey there! The Co-op has been on a hiatus for a bit, but we are planning on opening up shop again soon. When you're able, please read over and respond to this update on our talk page. We have favorable results from our final report regarding the pilot, and we are interested in seeing who is available to mentor when we reopen our space and begin to send out invites again. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:16, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It may be worth mentioning that common sundials such as the London one, of which you included an illustration, actually have two styles, one on each edge of the gnomon. One style is used in the forenoon, the other in the afternoon.
I have made a slight change to the indicator line giving it two heads. This was a lot more complex than I thought as Inkscape refuses to read the parameter used in the svg to add a curve to a line- even when it was the program that created it!
I haven't changed the text- as I can't think of a change that would be generic enough, if it is more than four words I think it needs to go onto the caption not the diagram. But I remain open to suggestion. Anyone can clone the diagram and add a new text layer if it is really important to them- but they will have to twiddle inkscape.
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited London dial, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Thomas Wright and Thomas Heath. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited London dial, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Silverwork and Henry Sutton. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
You can add quotations marks before and after a title or phrase with a single click.
Select the relevant text. Find the correct quotations marks in the special character inserter tool (marked as Ω in the toolbar).
Click the button. VisualEditor will add the quotation marks on either side of the text you selected.
You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use VisualEditor.
Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team have been working on mobile phone support. They have fixed many bugs and improved language support. They post weekly status reports on mediawiki.org. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving language support and functionality on mobile devices.
Wikimania
The team attended Wikimania 2015 in Mexico City. There they participated in the Hackathon and met with individuals and groups of users. They also made several presentations about VisualEditor and the future of editing.
Following Wikimania, we announced winners for the VisualEditor 2015 Translathon. Our thanks and congratulations to users Halan-tul, Renessaince, जनक राज भट्ट (Janak Bhatta), Vahe Gharakhanyan, Warrakkk, and Eduardogobi.
For interface messages (translated at translatewiki.net), we saw the initiative affecting 42 languages. The average progress in translations across all languages was 56.5% before the translathon, and 78.2% after (+21.7%). In particular, Sakha improved from 12.2% to 94.2%; Brazilian Portuguese went from 50.6% to 100%; Taraškievica went from 44.9% to 85.3%; Doteli went from 1.3% to 41.2%. Also, while 1.7% of the messages were outdated across all languages before the translathon, the percentage dropped to 0.8% afterwards (-0.9%).
For documentation messages (on mediawiki.org), we saw the initiative affecting 24 languages. The average progress in translations across all languages was 26.6% before translathon, and 46.9% after (+20.3%). There were particularly notable achievements for three languages. Armenian improved from 1% to 99%; Swedish, from 21% to 99%, and Brazilian Portuguese, from 34% to 83%. Outdated translations across all languages were reduced from 8.4% before translathon to 4.8% afterwards (-3.6%).
We published some graphs showing the effect of the event on the Translathon page. Thank you to the translators for participating and the translatewiki.net staff for facilitating this initiative.
Recent improvements
Auto-fill features for citations can be enabled on each Wikipedia. The tool uses the citoid service to convert a URL or DOI into a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. You can see an animated GIF of the quick, simple process at mediawiki.org. So far, about a dozen Wikipedias have enabled the auto-citation tool. To enable it for your wiki, follow the instructions at mediawiki.org.
Your wiki can customize the first section of the special character inserter in VisualEditor. Please follow the instructions at mediawiki.org to put the characters you want at the top.
In other changes, if you need to fill in a CAPTCHA and get it wrong, then you can click to get a new one to complete. VisualEditor can now display and edit Vega-based graphs. If you use the Monobook skin, VisualEditor's appearance is now more consistent with other software.
Future changes
The team will be changing the appearance of selected links inside VisualEditor. The purpose is to make it easy to see whether your cursor is inside or outside the link. When you select a link, the link label (the words shown on the page) will be enclosed in a faint box. If you place your cursor inside the box, then your changes to the link label will be part of the link. If you place your cursor outside the box, then it will not. This will make it easy to know when new characters will be added to the link and when they will not.
On the English Wikipedia, 10% of newly created accounts are now offered both the visual and the wikitext editors. A recent controlled trial showed no significant difference in survival or productivity for new users in the short term. New users with access to VisualEditor were very slightly less likely to produce results that needed reverting. You can learn more about this by watching a video of the July 2015 Wikimedia Research Showcase. The proportion of new accounts with access to both editing environments will be gradually increased over time. Eventually all new users have the choice between the two editing environments.
Can you read and type in Korean or Japanese? Language engineer David Chan needs people who know which tools people use to type in some languages. If you speak Japanese or Korean, you can help him test support for these languages. Please see the instructions at mw:VisualEditor/IME Testing#What to test if you can help.
If your wiki would like VisualEditor enabled on another namespace, you can file a request in Phabricator. Please include a link to a community discussion about the requested change.
Please file requests for language-appropriate "Bold" and "Italic" icons for the styling menu in Phabricator.
The weekly task triage meetings continue to be open to volunteers, usually on Tuesdays at 12:00 (noon) PDT (19:00 UTC). Learn how to join the meetings and how to nominate bugs at mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings. You do not need to attend the meeting to nominate a bug for consideration as a Q1 blocker, though. Instead, go to Phabricator and "associate" the main VisualEditor project with the bug.
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Scale of Chords, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Chord. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Clem, I reverted back your revert of my clean-up of the Pont du Gard intro, which I did not undertake lightly. The intro sentence as I came upon it was much too cumbersome and overflowing with geographic and linguistic references. Such aspects can be presented later in an article if necessary. Plus, there is no need to link every single geographic name in a sentence or paragraph; at a certain point it becomes a distraction rather than a help. For example, if readers are curious, they need only follow the Gardon link to learn all about the river's name and geography. And I seriously doubt anyone has dubbed this aqueduct the Pont-du-Gard Bridge in an English reference work before now. I think a dispassionate read of both versions will make my observations clear. Erictalk19:13, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Eric: I am glad you have come back to me. My edit was interrupted by a call to dinner and needed refining. I object to the Gard, being referred to as the Gard river, as the European convention is to but the word river first. In this case the river is the Gardon- the word river is not used. The Pont-du-Gard has always been the Pont-du-Gard in English, and never the Pont-du-Gard Bridge or Pont-du-Gard bridge but this is a better wording than saying (Literally:Gard Bridge). If for nothing else that the du in French is a genitive and must be expressed in English as Bridge of Gard or Gard's Bridge.
Can I look at your reversion and make comments:
The Pont du Gard (Gard Bridge) is an ancient Roman aqueduct bridge *1 that crosses the Gardon River in the south of France *2. Located in near *3 the town of Vers-Pont-du-Gard, the bridge is part of the Nîmes aqueduct, a 50 km-long (31 mi) *4 structure built by the Romans *5 to carry water from a spring at Uzès to the Roman colony of Nemausus (Nîmes)[4] *6 Because the terrain between the two points is hilly, the aqueduct – built mostly underground – took a long, winding route that crossed the gorge of the Gardon, requiring the construction of an aqueduct bridge. Built in the first century AD, the Pont du Gard is the highest of all Roman aqueduct bridges and is, with the Aqueduct of Segovia, one of the *7 best preserved. It was added to UNESCO's list of World Heritage Sites in 1985 because of its historical importance.
1 aqueduct bridge is not English- as in English aqueduct has two meanings- a water course and a bridge carrying water Agree; the construction caught my eye initially as odd, but I assumed that the writer was working from a precedent I had yet to encounter. I changed it.
2 not specific enough I tend towards a brief general geographic reference for an initial sentence.
3 in near Typo, fixed.
4 mi non standard abbreviation Didn't initially jump out at me as out of line, so I left it. Now changed; see what you think. I don't always think every distance on wp needs a conversion, and I don't like how those conversion templates apparently can't accommodate proper hyphenation when a distance is expressed as an adjective preceding a noun.
5 of course the Romans built a Roman aqueduct Yes. Nixed.
6 Because the terrain between the two points is hilly, the aqueduct – built mostly underground – took a long, winding route that crossed the gorge of the Gardon, requiring the construction of an aqueduct bridge. - I probably wrote this but it is awful- the terrain is not hilly- it is a deeply incised valley, formed at the time of the Alpine uplift. Is this the Gorge du Gardon [www.gorgesdugardon.fr/index.php/Géologie-et-Paysages?idpage=12&afficheMenuContextuel=true#6] even though Vers Pont du Gard is a commune in the Grande site sydicat- just a question. Again problem with the term aqueduct bridge (its fine in French pont-aqueduct).
7 it is the best preserved but probably needs a reference That sentence didn't strike me as terrible. It seems the Gorges du Gardon is a nature preserve: fr:Gorges_du_Gardon. I tweaked that part--see what you think.
Going back to the question of name- the Gard is a department, the Gard is a French translation of the Occitan word Gardon. Gardon is the river. (look at official publications from the department) Yes this lede does need to be changed- I gave it a shaking but freely admit it can be done better. So, over to you.-- Clem Rutter (talk)00:49, 3 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Clem- I replied to your listed comments in italics above. I agree re the awkwardness of "Gard Bridge"--that struck me at the outset as unnecessary at best. Re the hyphenated "Pont-du-Gard", I've never seen that in English or French. In a brief rummaging through the web, including on fr.wp, I could not find any definitive etymology re Gard/Gardon. Nothing here: fr:Gardon_(rivière) nor on fr:Histoire_du_Gard. Interesting musing here on Etymologie-Occitane.frErictalk13:30, 3 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Meetups in Liverpool and Manchester
See you there?
Hi there! Do you know that there will be meetups in Liverpool on the 27th of September and in Manchester on the 25th of October?
We have sent you this message because you signed up at meta:Meetup/Manchester. If you would rather not receive such messages on future, please remove your name from the list.
For the training sessions on the 19th September I have produced these two booklets--comments welcome
they will probably be around at the litheroe Castle Museum Edit-a-thon on 26th September.
From the feedback the files have been reworked - these are both usable but I will continue fiddling with the fonts. I need to look at the maths section in the intermediate and write the page on writing templates.
Here are the drop box links
Help us improve wikimeets by filling in the UK Wikimeet survey!
Hello! I'm running a survey to identify the best way to notify Wikimedians about upcoming UK wikimeets (informal, in-person social meetings of Wikimedians), and to see if we can improve UK wikimeets to make them accessible and attractive to more editors and readers. All questions are optional, and it will take about 10 minutes to complete. Please fill it in at:
Hi Clem, I've been busy tracing the various mills in Clitheroe. A couple of issues remain, one being Claremont Mill, I can find no trace and am thinking that it is confused for Brewery Mill. Also I've removed Greenacre Mill to leave Holmes Mill as I'm fairly sure that they are one and the same. I don't have access to the Ashmore source used in List of mills in Lancashire maybe it sheds more light? --Trappedinburnley (talk) 18:23, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
List of Mills in Clitheroe seems a good idea, we have taken over the project page somewhat. I was thinking Trutex deserved a mention on the Clitheroe article, but I had no idea it is so old. They started building Claremont Ave after WWII. MARIO has aerial imagery from that period, nothing much there except Goosebutts Farm. However Claremont House survives, on Pendle Rd at the junction with Goosebutts Ln. In 1890 it was separated from Brewery Mill by a pond, now filled-in under Highmoor Park (road). From the view of the Castle, Carlton Mill seems to have been Victoria Mill, which I had missed.--Trappedinburnley (talk) 11:22, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited List of mills in Clitheroe, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Calico. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
I have been asked to advise on this- can I open this invitation. I have never encountered this procedure before- the subject seems notable ( Obits- in 3 newspapers +Radio 4)- a well referenced article being criticised for being too chummy. A bio about a notable women? What am I missing? -- Clem Rutter (talk)08:40, 5 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The location of the visual editor's preference has been changed from the "Beta" tab to the "Editing" section of your preferences on this wiki. The setting now says Temporarily disable the visual editor while it is in beta.
This aligns en.wiki with almost all the other WMF wikis; it doesn’t mean the visual editor is complete, or that it is no longer “in beta phase” though.
This action has not changed anything else for editors: it still honours editors’ previous choices about having it on or off; logged-out users continue to only have access to wikitext; the “Edit” tab is still after the “Edit source” one. You can learn more at the visual editor’s talk page.
We don’t expect this to cause any glitches, but in case your account no longer has the settings that you want, please accept our apologies and correct it in the Editing tab of Special:Preferences. Thank you for your attention, Elitre (WMF) -16:32, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for October 16
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a welt, adecorative strip of soft leathe,r would be nailed over to conceal the joint. Fasteners (clasps, eyes or buttons would go on and finally a protective toe-tin.<ref> Interpretive leaflet
Thank you for adding an extensive section Manufacturing English Clogs at the page clog. However, I removed it. This because there exist a page for English Clogs, which you can find here: Clog (British). The page Clog is an introduction page for clogs worldwide. The gallery with pictures gives links to national clogs. So also to English clog. Thanks again for your interest. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 05:44, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Its quite quick if you take the copy to a texteditor (pluma, gedit) and do global replace. I am not up to speed with citation- mainly using the cite templates- 2012a has a few limitation when dealing with older newbies- but do change it if you wish. Are you going to have a go at Clog dance this weekend. In my idle hours I am looking for a reference to support User:Berkh assertion on Clog that will take some lateral thinking. -- Clem Rutter (talk)10:15, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Hello. Why did you remove the picture from the article? You said that the picture adds nothing to the article, even though it is a picture of a sundial, if nothing it helps illustrate the article better. VS6507 (talk) 09:26, 6 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Picture in question
Thanks for showing an interest- In the Commons:Vertical sundials there are 1,243 images, and further sub- categories. Your dial is a simple modern dial, of a south west vertical declining (afternoon dial) The dial vertical points to 12.45- that is an offset of 45mins time- or about 12 degrees east. The web site locates the centre at 44° 14’ 50’’ N & 19° 55’ 50’’ E which is an offset of 20 degrees- or 80mins. This is a little puzzling. This dial appears to have a sub-style of zero- so as SD= arctan (sin d/tam φ) this seems to be a co-incidence. Neither this image or the article Petnica Science Center is geotagged.
Looking at the image, the motto is fuzzy and to the right there is wasted space. The image needs to be cropped.
Thanks for the useful comments. The image is not the best quality one; I might take a better shot in the future.
According to Google, Petnica Center is probably located at 44.246540=44° 14' 48'' N, 19.930834=19° 55' 51'' E [3], so that's quite similar to your coordinates. I think we can use this for geotagging. This dial's vertical is pointed to 1, and Aldeburgh is close to 1st meridian east, but this doesn't seem to be the case with the sundial in Petnica. Frankly, I don't know much about trigonometry or math for that matter, I'd need more studying in that field... I've contacted the Center, though, asking them if they can tell me more about this type of dial. I'll let you know if they reply.
From the feedback the files have been reworked - I will continue fiddling with them. I need to look at the maths section in the intermediate and write the page on writing templates.
Here are the drop box links
Hi Clem. Is there a reason for adding Atkinson and Cahill to external links? Both pages are given in the references section above. I'd revert, but someone of your standing probably does have a good reason. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:53, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Cahill for balance (weak)but Atkinson- it is his five videos this Rough cuttingthis Hollowingthis Uppersthis ClaspsClog and Pattern) I am after. He has done them using Vimeo, and I can't find a clear CC-BY-SA statement- which possibly was an oversight- he comments a lot on Clogging videos for instance NWFilm archive ([https://vimeo.com/album/3066221/video/107803204 this). All those videos I would like to see on commons--but before that I think we need to have them clearly placed- then someone can phone and ask him whether he is willing to put a CC-BY-SA tag on them so we can go the copy them over. Walkley's are not using traditional techniques but use machines- not the wood or the technique described.
I am searching for illustrations of Blockers, Hollowers etc- Cahill has one, Chris Brady this but copyright unclear.And Now, Stock knife has an illustration- but it is not of a blocker-goodness knows what it is. So that is the evil plan.
I'm not querying the usefulness of Atkison & Cahill, just whether the same page needs to be referenced in two succeeding sections? I've been a bit busy recently so I haven't taken up your earlier challenge. If you want to run with it, good luck! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:27, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Clem. I've had a look at the draft and it seems fine. Possibly the lead is a bit long and repeats too much detail from the history section, but that can be better précised once the body has been knocked into shape. Keep up the good work! I might try to get to a London meetup, but at the moment family life is a bit hectic (2 teenage sons) and London is a pain to get to these days! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:35, 10 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hello ClemRutter, The videos are very interesting. I further searched a bit on Clitheroe Castle Museum and found out there is an exposition of the work of a local retired traditional clog maker. I was wondering if there is also a permanent collection of (international) clogs? Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 19:31, 12 November 2015 (UTC).[reply]
Sadly, not yet- the aim of the museum was to represent aspects of local life- (auf Deutsch- Es is heute nur ein Heimats museum.) Send me an email and we can talk more freely. Clem.-- Clem Rutter (talk)19:55, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A note: Dutch clog dancing, or klompendansen is hardly existing. If it really existed (organised) at all. I seems more something that in the past happened spontaneous. I can't remember I have seen it for real. Klompendansen as an expression is on the other hand well known. Putting on klompen and a traditional dress is more something for Dutch emigrants in Holland, Michigan, USA. Pictures of it there seem to me a hodgepodge of traditional clothing from the West of the Netherlands. The clothing you only see in Volendam and Alkmaar. What tourists see and associate with Holland. Clothing in the North, East and South is different. Kind regards, Berkh (talk) 19:54, 12 November 2015 (UTC).[reply]
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Hi. I'd been thinking of doing a content fork of Terraced house for some time, after I explained to my (American) partner what a typical 3-up 2-down terraced house was like. I started Draft:Terraced houses in the United Kingdom, thinking there were no other comparable articles, then came across Byelaw terraced house which you also started recently. We probably need to merge the two articles together, as the one I started is wider in scope and covers all terraces, rather than just the stereotypical Victorian ones. How do you think we should proceed? Ritchie333(talk)(cont)15:44, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi - great to hear from you. Two months ago I would have agreed- I wrote the Byelaw terraced house article in frustration at finding a term I hadn't heard before which didn't have a WP article. I also saw a problem with Council house- but a with little brute force, I forked it into Council House and Public housing in the United Kingdom. The source material is incredible rich and my thoughts are changing on a daily basis. And there is great cross over.
"The History of Council Housing". The History of Council Housing. University of the West of England. Retrieved 19 November 2015. is a great source
RW Brunskill, has written many articles on pre- 1900 vernacular building types- I have several; but haven 't drilled down to find much on council housing or privately built terraces. Time factor.
My thoughts were that council house, should be mainly about the bricks and mortar- ground plans elevations etc. The designed changed radically from 1910 to 1960, when we had the tower block interlude. Public housing in the United Kingdom should take the housing unit as a commodity and explain the philosophy, sociology and politics of publically provided units- I haven't started to shape that yet- the different sections between the two articles will link like the rungs of a ladder. My interest started from the physical bricks and mortar but there are so many spin offs.
Back to the humble terrace- you can date a Byelaw house by its feature- for instance the lintels over the windows- starting with the brick lintels that key into the one brick solid walls at 70 degree angle- the cast stone replacements that key in at 70, the cast stone flat lintels that rest on 9" footings and disperse the force vertically. Concrete with stone facings- steel with stone or brick facings. etc This needs expanding. Plumbing evolution, the acceptance of water closet within the house (so unhygenic- it will never catch on), the change from scullery to kitchen... so the byelaw article is resting until I have time to reference and add these details. It has the potential to become massive. This was a period when planning and building control were becoming established- many of these houses were not designed by an architect, but bought from a pattern book that the builder maintained. (still haven't found one) Architectural practices were involved in estate layout (I think)
Parkinson-Bailey Parkinson-Bailey, John J. (2000). Manchester: an Architectural History. Manchester: Manchester University Press. ISBN0-7190-5606-3. has a great chapter on Housing in the Nineteenth Century which has two good quotes about the working classes: ..there is no great hardship for people of this class to share a scullery with another family; they have for the most part been doing this most of their lives... This and UWE are good sources for an article on Pre 1875 urban terraced houses. I am now looking for material for Interwar terraced houses. It seems to be out there just uncategorised.
I've moved the draft article to mainspace, so it's now at Terraced houses in the United Kingdom, and added some more information from that UWE source. I had a look at some of the other articles on that website as well. The article is now about 1350 words, which is a reasonable introduction to a topic and a suitable spin-off from the main Terraced house article, so I think we should be able to accommodate this topic fairly well. I think the next thing to look at is the various types of estates that spring up in the 19th century, and why - I know all about the terraces in South Wales because my grandparents lived there and it's one of the best surviving examples of basic terraced housing in the entire country, but I'd like to know more about why there are large amounts of uninhabited terraces in Liverpool and Greater Manchester and what exactly caused it to happen. There was that episode of DIY SOS recently where a team of people banded together to completely restore a street.
Part of the motivation to write about this topic is trying to find out more about various memories I have, such as wondering why the house I used to live in, a 1900s terrace, looked identical to all the others in the street, except for the downstairs bathrooms, which had all been retro-fitted individually in completely different styles depending on who did it. Why are typical Victorian or Edwardian terrace houses basically all the same design with variations? And why are pairs of terraces that still have the original finish on them named "<name> villas"? (random example found on StreetView) And how and when did electricity, running water and (ultimately) central heating get retrofitted into all of them? Questions, questions. Ritchie333(talk)(cont)22:35, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
With gross unreferenced generalisations-- Jobs moved to the towns- Manchester, Leeds, South East London, round the mills, foundries and shipyards and factories. Economic growth was constrained by the number of labourers you could get. Children from the workhouses were cheap but even then you had to house them within walking distance of the factory gate. You needed tenements or houses. Maximum density was achieved in back-t--backs or round courtyards- the earthcloset of privies were at the end of the street, disease and pollution killed of the labourers faster than you could replace them.
There is a rich vein of houses around here to be examinedGovernment stepped in with the 1875 act- each house had to be a through house. Back to backs were history. Each house had to have its own privy, with a back access ginnel and alley so the night soil was not carried through the house. I think it was soon after that water and mains drainage had to be provided to the back of each house. Local authorities had to regulate new builds. As each new chunk of land was released for housing, the authority insisted that a road be laid at the front, and alley at the back. Lord Whatshisname, or Bishop thingy prepared the land- and sold the plots to whichever builder paid most. In those days if 100 plots were released- 20 builders may stump up the cash and buy some of them according to their capacity, and they built by rule of thumb which ever design they knew- all different yet really the same. They had to stick to the building line, and stick to the byelaws and buy the material available, so if the supply of pine change it would affect all of them, and the designs would all change. The all needed to use the same box sash windows, and the byelaws said the area of glazing should be 10% of the floor area of that room. Now I learnt last week- that houses for the overseers and shop-owners doctors were still built in the grid, but to a higher standard- they may for example be 2 plots wide- all these houses were called Villa houses- I live in one and was surprised to find out that is why the plaque onm the wall names it a Florence Villa. It was quite radical for 1885, because as well as the outside Water Closet- the Byelaw defined distance from the kitchen door- I also had a watercloset that was installed on a half landing on the stairs- yes inside (how filthy was that I ask you?). Enough for tonight I need sleep! -- Clem Rutter (talk)01:31, 21 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestion
Hi Clem
Thanks for your message to-day. I agree with you. It would be very nice to have an infobox containing the relevant facts on the artist and an image that encapsulates the artists style of painting.(snowpatrol 20:18, 21 November 2015 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seascaper (talk • contribs)
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To clear up the confusion regarding the Irish Census.John Hennessy(Patricks father)being in the army was stationed at Athlone(Westmeath)in 1911 along with his wife Bridget,son Dennis and daughter Bridget.To verify the entry further please see Dundee Courier 1/5/37.Marriage entry:Miss Brida Hennessy-eldest daughter of the late sergeant major J.Hennessy-Leinster Regiment and of Mrs Duncan,9 bridge Streetsnowpatrol 15:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seascaper (talk • contribs)
Lancashire GLAM
Hi Clem, how's it going? Thanks for posting this, I was aware that funding cuts where likely, but this is a shock. I'm particularly worried about QSM, as it seems so much would have to be done so quickly to save it. I believe there is an Christmas event at Helmshore on Saturday. Not my usual scene but I think I'm going to pop down and see what people are thinking about the future.
You may have noticed that I've not been around for a while, but I have continued with Clitheroe Castle offline, time permitting, and merged it back in the other day. It has been hard work, as it turns out that just about everything about its history is disputed, especially its origin. I've sill got a few bits to tidy-up, one being the referencing on your geology section. Where you aware that you haven't actually ref'd the Kabrna book that you added to the Bibliography? I'm currently in two minds whether to put it through the GA process in the future. Trappedinburnley (talk) 20:04, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've been distracted. Without going into the gory details, its been dicky birds at the British Library, and a daughter moving house to Nottingham. So, I have looked at Kabrna again and realised why I put him down.
As I understand it- the baserock of 838 m of Chatburn limestone was deposited in flat shallow (75-100m) warm falling seas seas about 360 MA (milions of years)[1] . About 351MA it tilted and the sea level increased and this marked the start of the Clitheroe limestones (both in the Bowland High group- of the western european Tornnaisian stage of Carboniferous [2] )
The mud mounds were thought by Tiddeman (1889) & Parkinson to be mound like accumulations of biogenic material[3] Vaughan (1916) recognised the fossil content was the same as in the Waulsortian limestones/mudstones in Belgian, in the 50s it was found that the mounds did not have the skeletal frameworks created by living organisms- so it was not a reef. They were created by lime mud, flowing in from elsewhere Lees(2006) [4]. The clue was looking at the Crinoids.
In 1972 Miller and Grayson described the mudmound having a core or bank bed. This developed in a low energy system and could be a stack of mounds. They are surrounded by thick bedded looser flank beds deposited in more turbulent waters--these merge into flat deposited inter-bank beds which can also occur in non Waulsortian conditions. [5]
Wallsortian mudmounds occur in two layers in the Clitheroe Limestone, the Coplow Limestone Member, and again in the Bellman Limestone Member which is upto 800m deep. Clitheroe castle is a Bellman member Wallsortian mudmound [6] This is around 346.3 MA. The sea-level was falling leaving an unconformity, and the base platform was fracturing. We ane entering the Viséan (Craven Group). These formation would be further fractured by the varican orogeny [7]
^Kabrna 2011, pp. 16–19. sfn error: no target: CITEREFKabrna2011 (help)
^Kabrna 2011, p. 11. sfn error: no target: CITEREFKabrna2011 (help)
^Kabrna 2011, pp. 19, 10. sfn error: no target: CITEREFKabrna2011 (help)
^Kabrna 2011, p. 20. sfn error: no target: CITEREFKabrna2011 (help)
^Kabrna 2011, p. 22. sfn error: no target: CITEREFKabrna2011 (help)
^Kabrna 2011, p. 27. sfn error: no target: CITEREFKabrna2011 (help)
^Kabrna 2011, p. 49. sfn error: no target: CITEREFKabrna2011 (help)
^Kabrna 2011, p. 165. sfn error: no target: CITEREFKabrna2011 (help)
Clitheroe Castle looks very good-
And to QSM and Helmshore- my thoughts are secure the mill by forming a single issue trust, buying it for a pound, and get Museum of Science and Industry to 'adopt it' and pay to run it , using European money to establish a world heritage site- or partner with Tuchfabrik Müller to form a European ring of Textile History. To save them coffee mornings wont be enough. LCC Museums officers probably have several viable ideas but need to gauge the professional support they can get locally- so lobby to establish management committee so organisations have someone to talk to. I know it sounds impossible- PS Medway Queen is still progressing- they has a lot of support from the Boilermakers Union. I am an email away -if I can be of any use. Clem Rutter (talk)23:24, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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The answer is that anything can happen if we want it to happen badly enough. This is our chance to steer the ship. I have simply made a proposal. That starts discussion. Where that leads I have no idea. FiddleFaddle12:14, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Problematic editor
Hi - I can't help noticing you are having a bit of bother with an editor on the Naturist page - I believe you might be interested in this sockpuppet investigation, as I think Queenmiss/Victoriaa11 is very probably the same person as Utbindas/Shreyoshidasgupta - and the recent editing patterns are really supporting this. I can't help wondering if this is an editor who's been blocked/suspended before, given how au fait they appear to be with the Wikipedia system. Anyway, just a heads-up that there's something strange going on here. I'm mostly leaving them to their antics for the time being, pending the outcome of the investigation, but couldn't help noticing odd patterns/similarities, and I think the more editors that are aware to keep an eye on things, the better. Mabalu (talk) 12:07, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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'''Semi-detached''' [[house|housing]] (often abbreviated to '''semi''' in the UK, Canada and Australia, as in "three-bedroom semi",
throughout downtown and older suburbs, helping define the character of the city's neighbourhoods.{{cn}
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ca. 1872-1887. (5833485842).jpg|Historic Atlantic Dock warehouse in [[Brooklyn]] in the 1800s]]
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Can you read and type in Korean or Japanese? Language engineer David Chan needs people who know which tools people use to type in some languages. If you speak Japanese or Korean, you can help him test support for these languages. Please see the instructions at mw:VisualEditor/IME Testing#What to test if you can help, and report it on Phabricator (Korean - Japanese) or on Wikipedia (Korean - Japanese).
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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Public housing in the United Kingdom, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Ernest Simon. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Dear ClemRutter, I must confess that many of the duplicated internal links in the Roy Hart article were mine. And I wanted to thank you for pointing out my misunderstanding of linking policy. I am learning as I go, and suffer sometimes from punctilliousness in the wrong places. When I have finsihed working on the next articles I am currently researching, I will go back through those to which I have made a major contribution and rectify the same issue. And in future I will just link to the fist mention, in accordance with your note. Many thanks, and apologies for my misunderstanding.
Prolumbo (talk) 11:11, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
To December 2016
Flow
Per discussion at Village Pump technical: WP:Flow is the WMF's explanation/documentation/sales-pitch for Flow. But more usefully you can give it a try. You can freely make test posts at mw:Talk:Sandbox. I would have linked you to the local EnWiki Flow testing page, but it died when an admin tried testing admin tools on it. Alsee (talk) 00:51, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Hi ClemRutter, Never thought I'd say this but thanks for reverting!, For some reason the images looked like they were taken at different locations (I don't think the captions helped!) which is actually why I removed them, Had I realized they were actually taken at Ebbsfleet I wouldn't of removed them so thanks again for reverting :), Thanks, –Davey2010Talk22:31, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If the weather were better I may do some more. I am now trying to put together a few neutral paragraphs on the Ebbsfleet Valley housing fiasco. There is a lot of background work, ABC city was being quoted but that was a redlink-- I have multiple spreadsheets open as HMRC is knocking at my door too. Keep up the conversation.-- Clem Rutter (talk)14:13, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
War memorials
Hi Clem, was good to see you today. If you get the chance (and the weather!) for an excursion, there are three war memorials I need photos of in Kent. They're in Maidstone (which is nice and easy for you!), Rolvenden, and Sandhurst (no, not that Sandhurst!). We do have some photos of them all on Commons (c:Category:Maidstone Cenotaph, c:Category:Rolvenden war memorial, and c:Category:Sandhurst war memorial, Kent), so it's not urgent—I'll have illustrations for when I do finally get round to writing the articles—but they're not great quality and they're low resolution. We do have a nice sharp photo of Rolvenden's, but it's side-on! Anything you can do would be great but a comprehensive survey with photos from all angles would be absolutely fantastic. In return, I promise I'll use some of them in articles! Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:06, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for January 16
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It is possible that the bot was mistaken and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article. CorenSearchBot (talk) 19:41, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for January 23
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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited St Ann's, Nottingham, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Wimpey. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Hi Clem. Can you help me out?
I am not by any means averse to criticism, and have worked hard since joining to address all issues raised on any article I have written.
I have just finished a very long process of authoring Autonomous sensory meridian response. I got way to involved probably. But I really felt it was my best article so far.
A user has placed templates saying it lacks structure and flow, and may need re-writing entirely to meet quality standards.
If this is true, then really, there is little point me continuing, because it is the best I can do.
Does it really need rewriting?
Does it really lack structure and flow?
It is not that I am claiming it is faultless by any means.
But the specific faults pointed out seem to me way off.
Tell me straight.
Many many thanks!
Prolumbo (talk) 07:37, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Its all there, but if you are an A level student- its a bit difficult to navigate. Give me fifteen minutes and I add a bit of hierarchy to the sub-headings and we well see how it reads. Then I will compare it with an article on a similar subject and jiggle the sections around. Back soon. -- Clem Rutter (talk)10:21, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Joan Bakewell, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Ystwyth. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Among experienced editors, the visual editor's table editing is one of the most popular features. If you select the top of a column or the end of a row, you can quickly insert and remove columns and rows.
Now, you can also rearrange columns and rows. Click "Move before" or "Move after" to swap the column or row with its neighbor.
You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use the visual editor.
Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor Team has fixed many bugs. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving support for Japanese, Korean, Arabic, Indic, and Han scripts, and improving the single edit tab interface.
Recent changes
You can switch from the wikitext editor to the visual editor after you start editing. This function is available to nearly all editors at most wikis except the Wiktionaries and Wikisources.
Many local feedback pages for the visual editor have been redirected to mw:VisualEditor/Feedback.
You can now re-arrange columns and rows in tables, as well as copying a row, column or any other selection of cells and pasting it in a new location.
The formula editor has two options: you can choose "Quick edit" to see and change only the LaTeX code, or "Edit" to use the full tool. The full tool offers immediate preview and an extensive list of symbols.
Future changes
The single edit tab project will combine the "Edit" and "Edit source" tabs into a single "Edit" tab. This is similar to the system already used on the mobile website. (T102398) Initially, the "Edit" tab will open whichever editing environment you used last time. Your last editing choice will be stored as an account preference for logged-in editors, and as a cookie for logged-out users. Logged-in editors will have these options in the Editing tab of Special:Preferences:
Remember my last editor,
Always give me the visual editor if possible,
Always give me the source editor, and
Show me both editor tabs. (This is the state for people using the visual editor now.)
The visual editor uses the same search engine as Special:Search to find links and files. This search will get better at detecting typos and spelling mistakes soon. These improvements to search will appear in the visual editor as well.
Please try out the newest version of the single edit tab on test2.wikipedia.org. You may need to restore the default preferences (at the bottom of test2wiki:Special:Preferences) to see the initial prompt for options. Were you able to find a preference setting that will work for your own editing? Did you see the large preferences dialog box when you started editing an article there?
Can you read and type in Korean, Arabic, Japanese, Indic, or Han scripts? Language engineer David Chan needs help from people who often type in these languages. Please see the instructions at mw:VisualEditor/IME Testing#What to test if you can help. Report your results on wiki (Korean – Japanese – all languages).
If you aren't reading this in your favorite language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thanks!
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Thanks. We are watching them all- they have enthusiasm but there is a long way to go still. We are encouraging them now to edit each others articles- so we will see how that goes. Please do keep a watchful eye too and pass any further advice to them on their talk pages. -- Clem Rutter (talk)16:23, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited The Meadows, Nottingham, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Great Northern Railway. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
If you have not seen the announcement: ----https----://www.change.org/p/councillor-jennifer-mein-save-lancashire-s-mill-museums/u/15881342?tk=zsPP_0EKngotzxzN95lLiRI2vdpAu2Rgi8n87Y6R02I ------ ClemRutter (talk) 10:17, 18 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Clem. As you have commented on the article previously, what say you about a youngster taking out a literary reference to 1066 and All That from one of the headers? I have explained it to him but he has nevertheless taken it down again. Is it that school articles bring out the persistent pupil in some wikipedians? Best wishes, --Po Kadzieli (talk) 16:50, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited St Ann's, Nottingham, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Radburn. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Do you want one Edit tab, or two? It's your choice
How to switch between editing environments
Click the [[ ]] to switch to the wikitext editor.
Click the pencil icon to switch to the visual editor.
The editing interface will be changed soon. When that happens, editors who currently see two editing tabs – "Edit" and "Edit source" – will start seeing one edit tab instead. The single edit tab has been popular at other Wikipedias. When this is deployed here, you may be offered the opportunity to choose your preferred appearance and behavior the next time you click the Edit button. You will also be able to change your settings in the Editing section of Special:Preferences.
I wonder if there is somewhere a blog post or some other kind of summary about the edit-a-thon on the UK EU referendum. How was it? What are the outcomes?
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Gas holder, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page King's Cross station. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Boundary Estate, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Potato famine. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Place the cursor where you want to display the references list (usually at the bottom of the page). Open the "Insert" menu and click the "References list" icon (three books).
If you are using several groups of references, which is relatively rare, you will have the opportunity to specify the group. If you do that, then only the references that belong to the specified group will be displayed in this list of references.
Finally, click "Insert" in the dialog to insert the References list. This list will change as you add more footnotes to the page.
You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use the visual editor.
Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has fixed many bugs. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving support for Arabic and Indic scripts, and adapting the visual editor to the needs of the Wikivoyages and Wikisources.
Recent changes
The visual editor is now available to all users at most Wikivoyages. It was also enabled for all contributors at the French Wikinews.
The single edit tab feature combines the "Edit" and "Edit source" tabs into a single "Edit" tab. It has been deployed to several Wikipedias, including Hungarian, Polish, English and Japanese Wikipedias, as well as to all Wikivoyages. At these wikis, you can change your settings for this feature in the "Editing" tab of Special:Preferences. The team is now reviewing the feedback and considering ways to improve the design before rolling it out to more people.
Future changes
The "Save page" button will say "Publish page". This will affect both the visual and wikitext editing systems. More information is available on Meta.
The team is working with the volunteer developers who power Wikisource to provide the visual editor there, for opt-in testing right now and eventually for all users. (T138966)
The team is working on a modern wikitext editor. It will look like the visual editor, and be able to use the citoid service and other modern tools. This new editing system may become available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices around September 2016. You can read about this project in a general status update on the Wikimedia mailing list.
Learn how to improve the "automagical" citoid referencing system in the visual editor, by creating Zotero translators for popular sources in your language! Watch the Tech Talk by Sebastian Karcher for more information.
If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you!
Hello ClemRutter - I see you reverted the edit I made in the article Cuxton. Please realize that Kentish is an ambiguous word, and it appears to me that none of the alternative articles listed there are helpful to people reading "Tudor Kentish Yeoman's house." Your explanation is that Kentish in this context is an architectural term - I checked Glossary of architecture and it's not listed there, so that doesn't help. I would recommend that Kentish is a better link to use - it's redlink, but it's better than the current status. PKT(alk)11:26, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we haven't written the article! I am about 1500 km away from my books particularly my Brunskill--isbn:9780575071223-- and yesterday the O2 connection was slow. The one I want is about vernacular timbered buildings. The form is of two wings with a sprung floor between. Wealden hall house may help though was a little large. --ClemRutter (talk) 22:45, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
@Sfan00 IMG:. I have watched some of the debate- the file was left on en: as I couldn't show full PD for the constituent image of the demolished mill. If there remain problems I could SVG and GIMP up an alternative CC-O mill- but if that is unneeded then I will let the status quo stand. --ClemRutter (talk) 09:20, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I do not really have any suggestions. I was just wondering that a user template is used in several articles. IMO this is bad practice, e.g. as a potential target of vandalism (more difficult to spot). --Leyo12:10, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Camisard, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Saint-Hippolyte, Saumane and Mialet. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
This edit [4]. Completely original research, speculation ("This lane was lined, either side, with horse-chestnut trees and was known to all local children as "Conker Alley""; "it looks like"; "the ford would be"; "Back in the early 1950's".) this is unreferenced (and trivial to boot) speculation based on one editor's interpretation of a map/personal memories. The previous - referenced - version was better. Keri (talk) 14:23, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Keri: I have re-written this for you. A quick google found the Radio Oxford article, and there was a ISBN already in the text. I rescued it as the conker quote was too well written to be vandalism, but the referencing was not the way we do it. It was clear on Open Street map that this had nothing to do with Sandford.
I put the trivia into an extended footnote so the information was not lost but it was away from the main text- it does less harm there. Then reading and re-reading the Radio Oxford piece found the chestnut reference- so all that it needs is a source to the childhood memory. We can afford to let that pass.
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Champdomergue, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Garrigues. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Did you know that you can easily re-arrange columns and rows in the visual editor?
Select a cell in the column or row that you want to move. Click the arrow at the start of that row or column to open the dropdown menu (shown). Choose either "Move before" or "Move after" to move the column, or "Move above" or "Move below" to move the row.
You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use the visual editor.
Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor Team has mainly worked on a new wikitext editor. They have also released some small features and the new map editing tool. Their workboard is available in Phabricator. You can find links to the list of work finished each week at mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings. Their current priorities are fixing bugs, releasing the 2017 wikitext editor as a beta feature, and improving language support.
Invisible templates have been shown as a puzzle icon. Now, the name of the invisible template is displayed next to the puzzle icon.[6] A similar feature will display the first part of hidden HTML comments.[7]
Categories are displayed at the bottom of each page. If you click on the categories, the dialog for editing categories will open.[8]
At many wikis, you can now add maps to pages. Go to the Insert menu and choose the "Maps" item. The Discovery department are adding more features to this area, like geoshapes. You can read more on MediaWiki.org.[9]
The "Save" button now says "Save page" when you create a page, and "Save changes" when you change an existing page.[10] In the future, the "Save page" button will say "Publish page". This will affect both the visual and wikitext editing systems. More information is available on Meta.
Image galleries now use a visual mode for editing. You can see thumbnails of the images, add new files, remove unwanted images, rearrange the images by dragging and dropping, and add captions for each image. Use the "Options" tab to set the gallery's display mode, image sizes, and add a title for the gallery.[11]
Future changes
The visual editor will be offered to all editors at the remaining 10 "Phase 6" Wikipedias during the next month. The developers want to know whether typing in your language feels natural in the visual editor. Please post your comments and the language(s) that you tested at the feedback thread on mediawiki.org. This will affect several languages, including Thai, Burmese and Aramaic.
The team is working on a modern wikitext editor. The 2017 wikitext editor will look like the visual editor and be able to use the citoid service and other modern tools. This new editing system may become available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices in October 2016. You can read about this project in a general status update on the Wikimedia mailing list.
Hi ClemRutter, When you moved the Fastrack article instead of it being "Fastrack (fashion accessories)" you had moved it to "Fastrack ( fashion accessories)" which is obviously incorrect - The article still exists I've just removed the extra space :), Thanks, –Davey2010Talk18:10, 10 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Clem - so sorry I didn't make it to the meetup yesterday to see you - I had a bit of a gardening-related injury! If you can still come along tomorrow I'd be very grateful to have you there to help out. The editing part of the day will begin at about 2.30pm, so if you'd prefer to skip the talks and just come to that you could do, though you're very welcome to come for the whole day - whatever is best for you. Let me know if you can make it (and if you have any dietary requirements for lunch!). Zeromonk (talk) 09:56, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about this - I was absolutely sure it was in article space when I edited it. Clearly I'm confused - I'd not usually edit something like that in userspace. Apologies and best wishes DBaK (talk) 07:37, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, ClemRutter. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
Hello, ClemRutter. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
Thank you for Hand holding and a request for help.
@ ClemRutter, Hello!
Thank you for Hand holding. Errors aplenty in my edits, I acknowledge.
I am intrigued and fascinated with the World on this side of wiki. My respects continue to grow each day for the noble platform. I am also amazed at stalwarts who continue to contribute through & over a decade. My salutation to you too sir.
I continue to learn each day. I admit I am yet to go through the training manual you suggested. I am sure, I shall benefit from it once I start learning from it.
Besides the article on Household Stone tools in Karnataka, I request your help on another article Chigali. I requested for photos to upload on the article Chigali from one of the websites. They replied today that I can use the pics. Could you kindly help in this regard,
I have email permission to use pics. Is it Ok to use?
If I can use it on the page, could you please guide me to the steps to do so?
Should any other permissions or procedure is required?
I am aware that I am taking your valuable time on such a trivial matter. My apologies.
I wanted to share an update with you regarding the request for help in uploading of photos. I had requested for help from @Bgwhite: earlier. I got a reply for that. I am going about those steps now.
We were discussing the Roehampton council estate at the meet up on Saturday, and just to let you know this is the one I had in mind: Alton Estate. I happened upon it during a cycle ride in the area a few weeks ago, having not realised it was there before. It looks like you haven't worked on that particular one yet! Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 13:40, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Amakuru: The Roehampton estate was renamed the Dover House Estate and had no article. At the time with 1212 houses it was a big estate. I was going to call it the article Roehampton estate but that title had been taken by Leutha for Roehampton estate- a slave colony Tooting, Roehampton, Putney is untrodden soil for me- and I found Alton Estate on the Roehampton article so I will look at it soon. The Roehampton article is beautifully written but if you Google certain of the more memorable phrases- a lot of it seems to be a c&p copyvio. Work needed there. The other thing that I notice is the absence of photos on commons so if you have a camera handy it will save me a journey. I am pressing on with Dover House today but I will add a few tweaks to Alton soon. --ClemRutter (talk) 15:01, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, of course. That will give me an excuse to get back on the bike and go check that out in the next couple of weeks. Thanks, and good luck with the Dover House work! — Amakuru (talk) 15:32, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just FYI
This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.
Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.
Following up on this, you referred to "the total stupidity of the suggestion to change from the lines official name". I'm not that offended, as I'm used to wikipedians over-reacting to ideas they don't like, but I'm still at loss to understand what you're relying on for the line's "official name". Early sources, when the line was in operation in the 19th century, never called it the Woodhead line; later (in the 20th century) it was known as the "Woodhead line". Did it at some point get an official name? Did anyone capitalize it while it was running? Where is the stupidity in trying to follow WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS? Dicklyon (talk) 04:50, 18 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Don't be offended- never the intention. What you are trying to do in hitting out out over-capitalisation (case) is generally a good thing. Bravo for that. I first hit his article way back, but I don't believe I have edited it. One of the first thing you do with a new articles is to check the case, and the definite books for rail lines are the Ian Allan Series. These were the basis for many of our articles. Working with the degree of trust we had for each other judgement we could recognise from the history whether the article was factually solid. Ian Allan are print books and are not digitised yet- but the railway buffs amongst us have them. in googling Ian Allen, I did find this publication
Bairstow, Martin. The Sheffield Ashton Under Lyne & Manchester Railway. The Woodhead Line. A detailed history and photographic study of the line containing a significant number of electric locomotive photographs. (pb) Published by author, 1986, pp72, isbn 0 9510302 4 8. VG (small inscription) £7
I was not intending to go into a full linguistic analysis of word usage along the line of the Woodhead route (which is how it has been referred to in Parliament since 2013) to distinguish between the old Woodhead Line and a potential reopened line on that route, the usage as Woodhead line as a shortform for the Woodhead rail line-- and the misusage by subeds on reliable papers known for their typos.
Trusting the expert editors of the past, rerunning those arguments is stupid. What we must do is look to our policy guidelines and see if we are allowed to use that name. We do. As I have now said elsewhere:
MOS:GEOUNITS (Institutions) gives categories of permitted use for Institutions and Geographical entities. The Woodhead Line is a clear geographical identity- it has a starting point, and finishing point, it is 41.5 miles long and has a defined width. The Panama Canal is 48 miles long .
You may not be aware of the political sensitivity of this line- (Google HS2 HS3 Northern Powerhouse) so the article will be watched-- this is a hell of a can of worms. ClemRutter (talk) 10:37, 18 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seasons Greetings
Merry Christmas from me! Thanks for your company during 2016. Un-Festive?? We need to celebrate We have seen the percentage of articles on women rise from 15.5% to 16.77%. 20% is within our grasp and that's an increase of nearly a third% over what we first found. J24 is near the Coopers Arms (my local) Victuallers (talk) 15:50, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
On 28 February 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Oroville Dam crisis, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that nine million fish were rescued from the Feather River Fish Hatchery during the 2017 Oroville Dam crisis(pictured)? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Oroville Dam crisis), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
I've used your 'Disability Arts' template, and I've added 'Wikiproject Disability' template to the talk page...I think I'm starting to get the hang of this Wikipedia thing! Finally!
@JTdisabilityartsonline: "I think I'm starting to get the hang of this Wikipedia thing! " I think you are! That's an excelllent piece of work .
As to constructive comments- well that is a hard task. I have read it twice now and nothing has jumped out of the page. So I went to Talk:Billy Connolly to compare. This is a B rated article- so I also hoped to find a reference to the Assessment criteria. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Assessment#Quality_scale I expanded out the criteria for a B. I think that is where you are aiming.
In the Lead bold the subject- what is a theatre-maker, that needs a wikilink. The infobox is there but I think we do need a photo- as she is alive and prominent I think just using a copyrighted newspaper pick and calling it fair use wont work. Read more at Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy. There is room for more wikilinking- particularly terms that non-theatre people might not know. Obviously don't go for over linking but there is only I link in the Disability Activism section. There is nothing explicit in the lead describing her role in DActivism and it should be there, both to create the synopsis and to hammer home her notability.
I look forward to seeing what the Draft assessor comes up with. Then when it is launched we can see again what we both have missed. Exciting.ClemRutter (talk) 14:32, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Antony-22: I think this is a continuation of the discussions of 16th February, and tying to make the lead compliant with MOS. We should have the the title as the first wl'd bolded item in the first sentence. We haven't. My POV is your fact is vital, It should be in the first sentence. It should/must be there as the second mentioned fact- but not first as it take undue prominence. I can't see a way to do that- hence I hoped that others would come up with a magic solution through discussion.--ClemRutter (talk) 10:31, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, MOS says that the title does not have to be present or bolded in the first sentence when a descriptive title is used: WP:BOLDAVOID. The point that the wikilink should be later in the lead is a valid one, so I'll look for another place to put it. Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 19:37, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Antony-22: Perfect. I see that 2017 California floods is one of your articles (well with a little help from your friends). And I was winging about this article lead! This Oroville article is good on the specifics but has no context- and the meteorological/ climatological cause I believe should be included in order to satisfy the general reader. Either before of after ==Investigation==, or if you are feeling brave in ==Background==. We are missing also a ==See also== where the overtopping at Anderson Lake (California) could get a link.
All these articles are important for the Global warming debate so we need to have them 'President proof'. Looking at 2017 California floods, the first sentence reads:
The high-amplitude ridge off the West Coast that characterized the 2011–17 California drought was replaced by a persistent presence of anomalous troughs impacting California. Another feature in the 2013–2015 winters was the extreme temperature contrast between a warm western U.S. and a cold eastern continent. These anomalous temperature and circulation patterns were referred to as the North American winter “dipole”.
Well, I can't take too much credit for the 2017 California floods article; mainly I was surprised that it hadn't been started yet, so I split some text from other articles and added a few sentences of my own here and there. Mainly I wanted to provide a framework that others could build onto. Yes, the "Causes" section of that article isn't very good, and if you can improve it that would be great! Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 00:54, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Secondary education, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Moravian. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Thanks Clem - I suspect we should have made more of your user guide at Newnham, but I wasn't expecting such a quality gift. A quick guide to the visual editor is missing. I am using your guide at Loughborough Uni on Friday and De Montfort Uni on Tuesday. Great gift - its on the Role Models page. Thanks Victuallers (talk) 20:30, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The most upto date version is on Women in Red Dropboxand I have done a |pdf. The only changes are cosmetic.
I haven't tried to do full coverage of Visual Editor as I don't use it and it is just not stable enough yet- their little tweaks in the screen formatting involves doing new screen dumps and even resetting the page- the kids screens have to look like the booklet six months after the event! I want to have a look at mobile phone editing too.
If you can provide some critical feedback on what works and what doesn't- it will be useful- you can email me a few photos of the the sheets covered in red pencil marks in the traditional way.
As I have said before these were never intended for distance learning or instruction- just a booklet to which a live tutor could refer when teaching a group of time-short professionals. It comes in multiples of 4 pages so it can be printed in A5 booklet form. It seems to have filled another niche too. So at the moment enjoy. ClemRutter (talk) 12:24, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for April 1
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Reformatory, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Hulks. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
@Diannaa: Lets keep the conversation on one page. Great to chat. You know what I am attempting to do by looking on the talk page- sort out an article with multiple problems- I am grateful that you are helping. I have diffed the section below so we can work on- it is correctly sourced - and many of the words are the same. The subject is different, Richards is writing a list of goals for his students- that is the artistic effort. Here we are being encyclopedic and stating these as fact. He is using similar words in subsidary clauses, our work cannot be claimed to be derivative. Written as it was, it is a useful check list. So lets look at the bullet points and compare, and you can perhaps suggest improvements.
==Secondary School as an institution==
− restore
The secondary school is a fundamental unit in a functioning society
− New text- not covered in any way by reference- restore''
sociological methods can aid our understanding of educational processes and systems
− compare with By the end of this chapter you should be able to 1. Explain how sociology can aid our understanding of educational processes and systems
the key concepts and theoretical approaches in the sociology of education have changed over time
− compare with 2. Demonstrate an understanding of the key concepts and theoretical approaches in the sociology of education and how they have changed over time
the social context, social diversity and inequality impact on educational processes and outcomes delivered by the secondary school
−compare with 3. Developed an awareness of social context, of social diversity and inequality and their impact on educational processes and outcomes
different social groups achieve differential outcomes from engaging with education at the secondary level
− copare with 4. Explain in sociological terms why different social groups achieve differential outcomes from engaging with education
research strategies and methods in gaining knowledge will impact on how the secondary school is seen
-compare with 5. Outline an understanding of the nature and appropriate use of research strategies and methods in gaining knowledge in the sociology of education
<ref>{{cite book|last1=Waller|first1=Richard|title=SOCIOLOGY OF EDUCATION|publisher=University of the West of England|location=Chapter 5|url=http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/13671/1/Final_edited_Soc_of_E_22F8362.docx|accessdate=4 April 2017}}</ref>
The addition was picked up by a bot and manually assessed by me. here is an assessment of the opverlap using Earwig's tool. The parts that are identical are highlighted (show up pink on my display). The differences between the source material and the material you added are inadequate to avoid copyvio, because it presents the same material in the same order using almost identical wording. That's why I removed the material. — Diannaa🍁 (talk) 12:47, 5 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Copying within Wikipedia requires proper attribution
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Clogging into Clog dancing. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was moved, attribution is not required. — Diannaa🍁 (talk) 16:01, 21 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Digital Marketing & Social Media
Hi, I am on the Digital Marketing and Social Media masters module at Loughborough University and wanted to stop by to let you know that I have now started my Wikipedia journey!--RyanHarris19 (talk) 13:23, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Clem - This user is using your guide!! He has got confused because it was Roger Bamkin who gave it to him. Your guide is very useful and it is being used. Ryan - well done. my talk page is here Victuallers (talk) 10:10, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings, @RyanHarris19:- Its good to know that I am now writing prescribed texts for Loughborough University! ;-) If there is any way I can clarify the mysteries of Wikipedia- come back to me on my Talk page or with an email- it is useful for me to have feedback on any of my booklets and text and suggestions for improvements. I haven't followed up on what the Digital Marketing and Social Media masters actually covers- so suggestions on how I/we can focus the material would be helpful.--ClemRutter (talk) 11:22, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Victuallers:I was toying with the idea of formatting the pages for Wikibooks or Wikiversity. Is this worthwhile? If so which? Whats missing? Is there a better way?--ClemRutter (talk) 11:22, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Learning points so far - Admins who see two new users looking at the same article on the same day assume its a sock.
Do register your account days and ideally weeks before you need it. On the other hand - dont assume that you can just type stuff press save save and that will be it. If you have an assignment then complete it a week before the deadline (leave some contingency).
Personally I've been surprised to find that users sand boxes can easily get reverted. They need watching over. Are you interested in helping to look over this group? They are all rushing for the deadline and they are getting some pushback from other editors. Victuallers (talk) 12:12, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you want something done ask a busy man. Sure. I'll give a hand. Do you Want to send me a few links and a list of your ducklings. ClemRutter (talk) 12:41, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well I guess you know how good you are. Ive created a list of the user names here. They know about refs and not cutting and pasting and the sandbox. They were using the visual editor. They are trying to write stuff about digital marketing.... Victuallers (talk) 18:21, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Did you know that you can review your changes visually?
When you are finished editing the page, type your edit summary and then choose "Review your changes".
In visual mode, you will see additions, removals, new links, and formatting highlighted. Other changes, such as changing the size of an image, are described in notes on the side.
Click the toggle button to switch between visual and wikitext diffs.
The wikitext diff is the same diff tool that is used in the wikitext editors and in the page history.
You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use the visual editor.
A new wikitext editing mode is available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices. The 2017 wikitext editor has the same toolbar as the visual editor and can use the citoid service and other modern tools. Go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures to enable the ⧼Visualeditor-preference-newwikitexteditor-label⧽.
A new visual diff tool is available in VisualEditor's visual mode. You can toggle between wikitext and visual diffs. More features will be added to this later. In the future, this tool may be integrated into other MediaWiki components. [12]
You can now use your web browser's function to switch typing direction in the new wikitext mode. This is particularly helpful for RTL language users like Urdu or Hebrew who have to write JavaScript or CSS. You can use Command+Shift+X or Control+Shift+X to trigger this. [14]
The way to switch between the visual editing mode and the wikitext editing mode is now consistent. There is a drop-down menu that shows the two options. This is now the same in desktop and mobile web editing, and inside things that embed editing, such as Flow. [15]
The Categories item has been moved to the top of the Page options menu (from clicking on the icon) for quicker access. [16] There is also now a "Templates used on this page" feature there. [17]
You can now create <chem> tags (sometimes used as <ce>) for chemical formulas inside the visual editor. [18]
Tables can be set as collapsed or un-collapsed. [19]
The Special character menu now includes characters for Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics and angle quotation marks (‹› and ⟨⟩) . The team thanks the volunteer developer, Tpt. [20]
A bug caused some section edit conflicts to blank the rest of the page. This has been fixed. The team are sorry for the disruption. [21]
There is a new keyboard shortcut for citations: Control+Shift+K on a PC, or Command+Shift+K on a Mac. It is based on the keyboard shortcut for making links, which is Control+K on a PC or Command+K on a Mac. [22]
Future changes
The VisualEditor team is working with the Community Tech team on a syntax highlighting tool. It will highlight matching pairs of <ref> tags and other types of wikitext syntax. You will be able to turn it on and off. It will first become available in VisualEditor's built-in wikitext mode, maybe late in 2017. [23]
The kind of button used to Show preview, Show changes, and finish an edit will change in all WMF-supported wikitext editors. The new buttons will use OOjs UI. The buttons will be larger, brighter, and easier to read. The labels will remain the same. You can test the new button by editing a page and adding &ooui=1 to the end of the URL, like this: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Sandbox?action=edit&ooui=1 The old appearance will no longer be possible, even with local CSS changes. [24]
I think some information does not need an attached citation. For an establishment like this, it is largely going to be internal knowledge. Students of the school know it is true, but there may not be a source to confirm it. Some citations - if you read them - are totally irrelevant and do not assist in providing information. They seem to be there just to 'tick the box'. -Sb2001 (talk) 19:02, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Sb2001: In a state school, I would be able to knock off those references from the annual governors report to parents, or in the prospectus issued at secondary school transfer- or the adverts taken out by the school in the local press at transfer time. I am sure, that someone must have written a recent history. The problem comes when the article starts to look for GA status and this 'petty' points will be raised then. It is better to do it now. And until you have a reference you are not safe from roaming- deletionistas. Yes, there are articles that are over-referenced, one can spend an amusing 20 minutes cleaning them up- but here my rule is 'one interesting fact', 'explain where it can be verified (drop in a ref), and then a line in the edit summary to say what you have done. It is important to demonstrate this in schools articles to set a good example to the next generation of editors. ClemRutter (talk) 19:52, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We're also not in a position to include "internal knowledge" material of any kind if it cannot be verified with a published source. Doesn't matter how true it may be. — SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 07:41, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
As of 28 June 2017, the official presumed number of deaths was 80. As of 5 July 2017, 21 victims have been formally identified and their families informed. A handful more are missing and assumed dead,[1]
Please discuss at the Talk page and gain consensus before adding these names.
Abdeslam Sebbar (aged 77, 11th floor)
Abufars Ibrahim (39, 23rd floor)
Ali Yawar Jafari (81, 11th floor)
Anthony Disson (British, 65, 22nd floor)
Farah Hamdan (Moroccan, 31, in a stairwell between the 20th and 19th)
Gloria Trevisan (Italy, 26, 23rd floor)
Marco Gottardi (Italy, 26, 23rd floor)
Husna Begum (22, floor ?)
Mohammad Alhajali, 23, floor ?
Jessica Urbanno, 2?, floor ?
Isaac Paulos (5, 18th floor)
Khadija Khalloufi (52, 17th floor)
Leena Belkadi (Moroccan, 6 months, 20th floor)
Malak Belkadi (Moroccan, 8, initially rescued, later died, 20th floor)
Omar Belkadi (Moroccan, 32, 20th floor)
Mo Tuccu (44)
Mohammad Al Haj Ali (23, 14th floor)
Rabeya Begum (64)
Saber Neda, also known as Mohamed Amied Neda (57, 23rd floor)
Ya-Haddy Sisi Saye also known as Khadija Saye (Gambia, 24, 20th floor)
Sheila Smith (84, 17th floor)
Vincent Chiejina (60, 16th floor)
Some names have not yet been released to the public, at the families' request.
The police said they were using "every imaginable source" of information "from government agencies to fast food companies" to identify casualties, but did not expect a final figure until 2018 when the search and recovery operation is over. On 28 June, the authorities stated that there were known survivors from 106 of the tower's 129 flats; eighteen people among the occupants of these flats were reported as dead or missing presumed dead, whereas most of those killed were said to have been in the remaining 23 flats between the 11th and 23rd floors.[2] Some people from lower floors may have tried to move up the building, and it is thought a number of people may have ended up in one flat.[3] Some victims were identified from twenty-six 999 calls made from inside the 23 flats.[citation needed]
The missing include many children including Amaya Ahmedin (aged 3, 19th floor), Biruk Habtom (aged 12), Fathia Ibrahim, Fatima Choucair, Firdaws Hashim, Hania Ibrahim, Jeremiah Dean (2, 14th floor), Jessica Urbano Ramiez (12, 20th floor), Mehdi El-Wahabi (8), Mierna Choucair, Yaqub Hashim, Yayha Hashim and Zeinab Choucair.[4] The youngest of those known killed, Leena Belkadi, was just 6 months old. One victim died in hospital on 15 June due to inhalation of fire fumes.[5][6][7] Additionally, one survivor suffered a stillbirth as a result of the fire.[8]
A total of 151 homes were destroyed in the tower and surrounding area. The incident ranks as the deadliest structural fire in the United Kingdom since the start of the 20th century, when detailed records began.[9] The death toll is higher than the Bradford City stadium fire of 1985, which killed 56 people.[10]
Thanks for your edit to Public housing in the United Kingdom. I found the article while researching what was meant by "council housing." It was jarring to see the catchy phrase "homes fit for heroes," clearly someone's snappy wordsmithing, without quotarion marks or in-text attribution. I changed it to common terminology, then you restored it with quotes, which is an improvement over the article as I found it, since it implies the phrase is not just some Wikipedia editor's creation. How about if the section explained that it was the theme of a movement and was coined by Lloyd George, since your edit summary is not going to be easily accessible to future readers? I doubt that anyone outside the UK is familiar with the term's history. Your edit comment that it is being explained in the cited book is not adequate, since few will drive miles to consult the book(not viewable online) in some university library. As an aside, I got interested in British housing after watching a TV show "Can't pay? We'll take it away" in which 2 repo men who are "sheriffs" show up with a writ from the "High Court" to politely evict tenants who haven't paid their rent in months, and have ignored eviction notices. Regards. Edison (talk) 23:39, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just to say -> Thanks and appreciated. About Reconstruction, you find a video in NDR or Stftung Maritim Facebook or even Peking Verein about it. Yard first Man explains what they plan to do with her, this was on last monday at brunsbüttel south port press conference, almost in detail. Of course I tried to resume the whole history in short easy words. If I was not succeed, sorry. I really do not know which language I really speak, today is a mix of many and many people complain about all my abilities. We at home made our own language to say the truth, a mix of many. So living is an issue. As for me now the most important are animals and today I received a bad news of young lion lovey dovey in mexico, who has a spinal bad tumor and probably will die soon with only 1.5 years old at black jaguar white tiger foundation, my head became sad, because I love the lion, so the Peking was slept to end priority. Well, did 129 pictures of BAP UNION & further PEKING on river to yard... however I kept them in my facebook group, where I fully administrate, and leave wiki for you experts. At home, I prefer no 'fighting' anymore with humans situations. It was festive, much people of all kind and finally fireworks at yard.... It is in your hands, I left some links and all is in internet. Great Luck Regards. --88.70.20.21 (talk) 20:30, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
March for Europe, 3nd September 2016, the march to Parliament Square. Cockspur Street then Trafalgar Square
Hello Clem, trying to send a Wiki message No idea if this right, very confusing setup it is).I've download your image: March for Europe, 3nd September 2016, the march to Parliament Square. Cockspur Street then Trafalgar Square for use in a short article about Brexit in a Scandinavian education mag 'The School Times'. Thanks for making it available. Best from the EU Schooltimes (talk) 08:39, 14 September 2017 (UTC)schooltimes[reply]
Hi. Regarding your comment on the AN/I 1RR discussion, here's a link to my content edits for the last 7 days [26]. If I've counted correctly, that's 148 edits, including substantial contributions to The Economic Consequences of the Peace. It's true that that's quite a low count for me for a week, but it happened to coincide with a week in which I started a new work project, and spent much more then my usual time in rehearsal.
I'm quite sure that I spend too much time on the noticeboards, but I do try to not let it get in the way of working on content. I will also acknowledge that I am far from a perfect editor, and have a full panoply of personal foibles, but I really am dedicated to improving the encyclopedia in whatever I do. People can certainly differ in good faith about the particulars, but I can assure you that my motivations and intentions are always proper.
In any case, thanks for your comment in that discussion. If I used your name previously in a way that offended you, I apologize for that.
Thank you for engaging with me on my talk page- but it wasn't really necessary, all that was required was for you provide a source (a reference) to your obvious fact, and a clear explanation in the ed an it summary. By editing using ip address, everyone who monitors these pages will assume you are a vandal, you could head this off by editing under a clearer user name. Looking at your edit history, you have caused yourself a lot of grief in the past, when your clarity of thought should have been lauded. We have an encyclopedia to write- and you are a part of it- shouting at your co-workers is never the correct solution, but enough of that onward with task and do ping me when you have a user name. I am cross posting this as I am not sure what you have tagged.
ClemRutter (talk) 08:35, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
September 2017
Your recent editing history at Nude swimming shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Binksternet (talk) 23:28, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No- @Binksternet: everything has been signalled on the talk page. Each of my edits has built on the original text. You and another editor have chosen to delete referenced text. I am satisfied that my current version is robust, and provides a base page for future reversions when others choose to rebuild the page if there are further deletions. Please use the talk page to discuss any issues you may have.ClemRutter (talk) 23:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What complete nonsense. You supplied a terribly unreliable blog post and a Youtube link at first, then you reposted the blog source along with IMDb, hoping that would cement your text. Unfortunately, the text you supplied was your own fabrication, based not at all on the cited sources. If that's your "robust" version then you have very great challenges to surmount. Binksternet (talk) 23:47, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway it is good to talk. The fact is that it is there- and shaky or not it is a substantial site, and if you read the reference you will see it if fairly anodyne. If you have time to look for a better reference feel free- I am not a youtube or film buff but may have seen the movie when it first came out- I am sure that a film buff will be able to lay their hands on it in seconds. Have you any better wording in mind? In doing deletions you need to be careful not to lose any data- and I do think that describing a deletion 'as editors work' is stretching a point. Looking at the references for some of the films, they do contain a lot of additional information which we shouldn't lose- I would be tempted to split them- and put some of that stuff in an efn so they appear as a separate footnote- but alternatively, they are wandering away from the articles title (off-focus), so the footnotes would be UNDUE. Any ideas? ClemRutter (talk) 00:07, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you're looking for advice I would say read through the policy WP:No original research a few times. The text you offer up to readers should be a summary of published sources rather than your own creation. If you cannot find published sources to support an idea for a Wikipedia contribution then don't post the contribution.
Please see and contribute to the discussion on the talk page. I am minded to delete the section on the slave trade on grounds of irrelevance - if you disagree please say why Brownturkey (talk) 16:17, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Using the adverb "highly" is voicing an opinion, so the same really applies if you had added "ridiculously" or "barely". If you have sources that define how they are selective in a factual manner, then feel free to add. I'm not certain why this needs to be in the lead sentence though, calling them selective would appear to be adequate. --Escape Orbit(Talk)21:03, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Escape Orbit: I was just on your talk page- I think the comment stands, but we can discuss it here:
"Greetings. I agree 'highly' could be seen as POV. However I don't believe you had time to read Peter Read's article and the Telegraph article, or to google further before you, in good faith, reverted. This has been a serious issue in Kent and Bromley since 1968! Would you like to study the literature and suggest an alternative wording that will not be seen as party political. If you read the current controversy at Olave's you will see that this little word was deliberate. I hasten to add I did not write the original text."--ClemRutter (talk) 21:08, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
Its all in the references, on receiving Circular 10/66 and 11/68. the 2 local authorities fought tooth and nail not to introduce comprehensive education. Kent did so by looking at the wording, and putting forward a scheme- where it would trial comprehensive schools in 4 small areas saying if the experiment was successful then they would roll them out gradually. Bromley introduced comps- but redefined two schools as super-selectives, a term no-one had heard off, these were 'locally' described as highly selective schools with their own entrance exams. The reference tell the story, and provide the source WP needs for use of one of the words.
The dilemma is that for the general reader, super-selective is just an obscure technical term, that would need a lot of explanation while 'highly' is a common (albeit POV-laden) word. Missing it out would suggest that Bromley was breaking the law (a deeply held Labour Party belief). As a former governor of a Kent Comprehensive, I daren't go too deep as that could generate a WP:COI allegation. -- ClemRutter (talk) 21:34, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I understand the problem. "Highly" appears to be an opinion, "super selective" is obscure, and appears to be something a pupil might jokingly add. My question is; does this need to be in the lead sentence? Can the school's selection process not be covered later in the article, where it can be explained properly? Why does it need to be the very first thing said about the school? --Escape Orbit(Talk)17:47, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Escape Orbit and Black Kite: If I had an answer- I would have quietly been "bold". Pupils in Bromley, Bexley, NW Kent would not joke about this- though they might elsewhere. A thousand sets of parents compete to get their nice kids into one of the 120 places- by extreme coaching, tutoring Saturday and Sunday classes, memorising past papers- buying test questions- all so they won't end up going to a grammar (sic) school. The other side of the problem is that Olaves is not a 'selective' school. It does not appear on the list of 'selective' schools they may go to if they pass the Kent test (Eleven Plus). These would include Bexley Grammar School, Dartford Grammar School, Betts, Syd and Chis etc. Comparable Direct grant grammar schools in the north of England such as Manchester Grammar School went independent. In short, it is the most significant fact that a parent needs to read- it is the most significant fact that a journalist needs to read before they try to explain the nature of the existing scandals. Sadly it needs to be in the lead.
So, back to 'highly'. A solution may be to use a hyphen, highly-selective may work, or just leave be and attach a {{efn}} that could contain a synopsis of this discussion. ClemRutter (talk) 20:37, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If it is, as you say, the most significant fact then it should be easy to find a source to cite. I've yet to see one that supports this description for either school. It also can't be emphasised enough that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a parents' guide to good schools. (I also doubt any parent with designs on sending their child to either school is using the lead sentence on Wikipedia articles to instruct them.) Your suggestion of a {{efn}} also looks like a suggestion that original research and synthesis may function as a cite. It may not. Please find a source to directly support what is appearing on the article. --Escape Orbit(Talk)21:48, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Here, just trying to be helpful- If I had the solution I would have done it. You could try this its not a site I have probed for RS. Now Chelsfield this is RS]- and may be what you are looking for. A blog in a RS Huffingdon Post is possible too. A commercial site talks about coaching for super-selectives but adds Dartford Grammar to the list (which personally I query) along with Skinners and Judds that I can accept. [The Telegraph] attempts to define super-selectives (note hyphen) in terms of scoring on the Kent Test (417 out of 420), and the good school guide links to a description of pass marks on the Kent test.
All this providing of references seems too close to OR and WP:SYNTH for the purist. Do you find what you need there? Failing that I see that there is another solution emerging, that may work. Write a stub on super-selectives, written from the perspective of the Kent test criteria- then link to super-selective from the Olaves ans NW page- it would satisfy my objection to writing a falsehood, and your objection to 'highly'. It would be time consuming to work that up past a 'B' though. ClemRutter (talk) 23:53, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Of the links you provide, I think this one] gets closest to what is needed, and it's not brilliant. This one has the air of a personal website to it. It offers no indication of who runs it and doesn't look professional. The others, as you indicate, merely discuss what a super-selective school is and provide no verification about Olave's or Newstead Wood.
I ask again; why do you think that this confusing definition has to be in the lead sentence at all? If it requires explanation and a factual demonstration of accuracy then there is plenty of space in the article to expand on it. Your idea of a super-selective stub may work, but an easier solution is simply to remove it from the lead. It's not essential that it appears there.
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Hello again Clem, hope all is well. the wiki article The Ambassadors (Holbein) lists a blue link Universal equinoctial dial (disassembled) which sends the reader to, guess what, Sundials. I can understand the confusion as the painting was created in 1533. So one of the articles is either wrong on date or wrong on type of time measuring equipment is shown.where do we go next? Edmund Patrick – confer11:21, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
unless the important part is the word "ring". ambassadors says Universal equinoctial dial whereas the editor is looking for a universal equinoctial ring dial. maybe suitable working in the article to stop further confusion? Yours Edmund Patrick – confer11:27, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
School articles are typical targets for vandalism, and unsourced additions (particularly alumni). Don't be too timid about getting them protected or vandal accounts blocked. Quickest and most efficient is to ask me direct on my talk page. As you have seen, I usually react quite quickly. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:21, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And Fortimere School in particular
@Kudpung: I find that this is an interesting case study.
Firstly I have had a look at all our top importance UK schools. No comprehensives, no state schools, no girls schools and only one mixed-school. And 50% in West London, all in the south. This seems wildly imbalanced. I can understand Eton but why not Benenden or Roedean. I can understand Summerhill but why not the Stantonbury Campus. Eton is tiny with 1250 pupils, Nottingham Academy has 3870. Why not Manchester Grammar School (1515) 211 notable alumni or Stoneyhurst (163 alumni including 3 saints), both are north of the Mersey? Do the criteria need to be examined again?
Secondly we are short of model articles on state schools where we can direct new users looking for inspiration. Could you bring it up to a B, or pen a few lines to explain how it fails- this school has the advantage of being a foundation school and history. The comparison it could be useful when writing WP:WPSCH/AG and explaining assessment. ClemRutter (talk) 17:23, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Victuallers:. If there are any changes to be made- let me know. There is a very easy warm-up task for undergraduates. If they look at {{Infobox UK school}} on any schools page they will not normally find |pushpin_map = Derbyshire it is a very quick way to make a spectacular difference. See Lees Brook Community School Thirty students doing 20 or so edits in different counties- could make a lot of progress. I am interested in watching undergrads trying to edit on their mobile phones- it sure beats me, but maybe their fingers and brains have evolved to the point where it is possible. At any rate, having a phone friendly tutorial material is worth thinking about.ClemRutter (talk) 16:54, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hallo Clem, Cash's exists - rather than proposing a merge formally, would you like to just turn your new item into a redirect? (My parents used up our old school nametapes, just the surname, putting them into the coats and jackets which they regularly left behind at meetings etc!) PamD22:28, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Good to work together again.
I came across these again when I was looking at small article on school uniforms in England and the public schools usually specified a mandatory supplier- and they insisted on using Cash's name tapes by name. I have set up the redirect to an anchor, but I think that there is more that can be added- it does explain the By Royal Appointment bit. --ClemRutter (talk) 23:22, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for the thanks. The article may look a little odd for a while, as I have inserted a description section. It may be empty for a couple of days while I try to research a technical description - I have a vague idea of trying to work it up to GA status. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:28, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Gog the Mild: thanks from me as well, it looks an interesting article. One question - the article says it is now located at "The Hythe in Maldon" but those look like different places to me. Is "The Hythe" link pointing to the wrong one? Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 14:38, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have been spending a lot of time on SB Kathleen and particularly the diagrams, which can be easily modified for any barge. The "I have a vague idea of trying to work it up to GA status." is an awesome idea! Go for it- I could learn so much from just being a minion- and will put in help when required. ClemRutter (talk) 15:25, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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@Le Deluge: Sorry if I sounded a bit aggressive, or protective. There were a lot of redlinks to conquer. National Historic Ships site uses Rochester for both port of registration, and build. Look also at the transoms and you see the barge described as Lady Daphne of Rochester. This extend nto childrens fiction with the Welcome of Rochester featuring in the Coot Club. In the reference books on barges that I am using, admittedly from 1950s, there are fewer mentions of the Medway than Rochester. There were many Category:Chatham-built ships and that has a category, Rochester and Strood and possibly Frindsbury will be following that example. Look to the London River and there is a thriving subcat- for Northfleet and a less thriving one for Gravesend again forming a precedent. Doing it this way will save time in the future- I hope. --ClemRutter (talk) 19:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Fram: Sorry- There is a lot of work to be done on syllabus. This stops a red link Syllabus (disambiguation), which starts to open up syllabus which is in the schools domain. I hope that some one with legal experience can expand this. You are right- it was top of Google too! Here is a US example .
@Mike Peel: I did try, if you look at the category Category:Mills owned by the Lancashire Cotton Corporation Limited you will see 49 files from the same book all dated around 2009- and 49 articles all dated from the same time. They were all replacements for the 49 images that I had uploadded to commons that were deleted by a kind wikignome. I persisted as you would expect. If you know of a way to get them onto commons- we can try again and do a third mass upload. I am not getting up-north as often now as the surrogate daughter in Glossop has moved down to Languedoc- and the grandchildren are in Nottingham. But meet up soon.--ClemRutter (talk) 09:15, 22 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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I don't know anything about US practice but proving you own a piece of land by being able to produce a trail of contracts [aka the deeds] was ubiquitous worldwide until relative recently but nowadays is increasingly no longer true. The problem with that traditional model is that the government has difficulty levying taxes unless it can see who owns what. Enter the Land Registry.
Of course it would be a mammoth task for the Registrar to visit every conceivable location to demand the data. So they don't. A law is made that makes all future contracts of sale invalid unless registered [usually concurrently with proving title]. Thereafter, presence of a record on the Registry is sufficient to assert title, no need to go back to 1066 and all that: the "deeds" you get nowadays have only sentimental value. So now we have these records on a nice database, albeit maybe in square cubits but that doesn't matter. A simple algorithm will display the data in whatever notation you want, while keeping the original "as surveyed“ data in a logical drawer until there is a good reason to resurvey [division for example]. It works very well in the UK and I'm surprised if the USA has not done likewise since property taxes are a much bigger thing there. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:04, 5 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There are only 2 images in cat- one is flipped, and one is a crop. I have looked at the name on the bow- if anything it would be Mersea to fit. I have no reference to a barge called Mer... or .mer...- so that doesn-t help. The other clue is the bob-the pennant- who would tell us the owner- I think they are the same in both images (Essex and Suffolk+2 paddlers). The closest being Samuel West 1949- but we do need colour. By 1949 the biggest barge owners in Ipswich were R&W Paul but their bob was a red field with a white X on it. No, can be of help there. I am unsure of the caption "leaving". Look at the anchor- if she were leaving it would be raised and visible. If she was coming to a mooring, the mate would drop the anchor slightly below the barge, so that it wouldn't scrape the quay or other vessels. I am penning a paragraph in SB George Smeed on typical practice. ClemRutter (talk) 11:06, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Clem. Are you going to write to RMG. They take about a week to reply. The original negative is probably good enough to confirm the name. You could remind them they have mirrored the image. I noticed the National Archives have records for Smiths Suitall, stationers, Ipswich: records incl staff records 1893-1972 (HA453), alas I'm sure no help to us. This is an interesting web pageBroichmore (talk) 13:03, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Hi Clem. I've tried to sort out the disambig issues on George Smeed's page, but am stumped by references to "Gravesend tier" (see talk page). Could they be transcription errors somewhere between Benham and Wiki for "Gravesend Pier"? I've also added coordinates for the points Benham mentions (and a couple of footnotes for those unfamiliar with the Thames). I'm not sure that inline is necessarily the best place though, do you thing that moving them into the footnotes section would be a better idea? Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:56, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OED has the answer. A tier is a row of ships moored or anchored ... hence an anchorage or mooring-place. I'll add a note to George Smeed and put something in the disambig page. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:17, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
First, I assume you didn't notice that I've also corrected Hidburghausen into Hildburghausen. Via Google I've found a German source that in Hildburg actually an old porcellain manufactury was situated, and the place Hidburghausen does not exist even in the German Wikipedia, therefore I think my modification was correct. I've inserted that again now.
Second, if you want to distinguish between the region Thuringen and the goverment division, your revert doesn't help: Thuringen is actually a redir on Thuringia.
I'm a native German speaker, and in our language, we don't make a big difference between the state Thüringen and the region Thüringen. I've always thought that Thuringia is the English translation of this Thüringen. Or do have native English speaking people really two different words for the region and the state? I can't believe this, especially because of the Thuringen redir.
What are your thoughts about that? (I didn't want to revert your revert, but first hear your opinion...)
Entschuldigen Sie! German has had a problem with Rechtschriebungreformen Jahrelang, and Britain has had problems with colonials who insist on speaking pre-1776 English. I assumed that my ancient Duden was telling me the truth, and I was dealing with an editor who was trying to make colour into color, and favour into favor! To me Thuringia is old fashioned and an abomination and Thüringen is the correct spelling- but, please take the lead and make any changes you want, I'll support you. ClemRutter (talk) 19:06, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Then I change it back to Thuringia, just because currently that is the name of the Wikipedia article and Thüringen only a redir. Perhaps this is the language of a former British colony where the people now even write color and favor? (Just a joke, dear Americans!) By the way, I've also change your user page because I think you deserve it! --Cyfal (talk) 19:48, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As requested a few comments. I retired as a BN director a couple of years ago but I probably still shouldn't edit the BN page. I am not sure if you would see my reply on my talk page, not sure how that works, so putting it here to ensure delivery.
Pretty good but it muddles a couple of things and the word "solution" does not explain the problem that it was solving. My wording is a bit clumsy in places but I suggest something like:
In 2013, following action by British Naturism and others, the Crown Prosecution Service issued guidance[1] which greatly reduced the number of mistakes being made.
In 2018, following correspondence and meetings between British Naturism and senior officers at the College of Policing, they published mutually satisfactory guidelines for the handling of complaints about nudity and for the policing of Naturism. Emergency call operators and serving police officers now have the appropriate advice available online and in their training manual. The URL of the advice has been added to the British Naturism membership card.
The legal status of Naturism:
Naturism is protected as a philosophical belief by the Equalities Act of 2010.
Naturism is protected by several articles of the Human Rights Act 1993.
Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 does not apply to passive nudity.
Section 66 of the 2003 Sexual Offences Act was carefully worded to protect naturists from prosecution.
Using nudity with the intention of causing "harassment, alarm or distress" can be an offence under both section 4/4A Public Order Act 1986 and section 66 Sexual Offences Act 2003.[13]
I notice that the list of Milestones is a bit inconsistent and has some errors.
The list of conventions is incomplete. Last year and this in Birmingham for example, and there may be others missing.
The opinion polls were 2002 and 2012. (Or perhaps a year earlier for each). Figure quoted is from the second one.
Should include the publication of CPS guidance
Should include the publication of College of Policing advice
Should mention similar work in Scotland and Northern Ireland over the last few years.
Does the page mention that membership, previously declining, is now growing strongly? 6% year on year at present.
Hi there - would you mind having a look at these two articles? A user has added a lot of training providers which are not schools. I have removed them once and the user has added them again. Tried to start a discussion on the talk page but no success. What do you think? Thanks, Tacyarg (talk) 18:38, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll have a go. It strikes me that he is still at school in Berkshire- possibly at Bulmershe (wild guess)- and is technically able, but needs mentoring rather than criticism. I am too kind. The interest in training centres comes from his personal need to find the information, and having done some previous editing looked at WP first. I don't see this as COI or Financial gain
Those two pages are like nothing I have seen- but still of poor quality, so, with your permission, I will go in a do a roll-back. If we produce info like that for the List of schools on every county we will need to employ staff. I will leave some heavy encouragement on the edit summary- and we will see if we can make a good editor out of him, and leave him with some proud achievements to blazon on his CV. ClemRutter (talk) 19:48, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Around 2.7 million Wikidata items have an illustrative image. These files, you might say, are Wikimedia's stock images, and if the number is large, it is still only 5% or so of items that have one. All such images are taken from Wikimedia Commons, which has 50 million media files. One key issue is how to expand the stock.
Indeed, there is a tool. WD-FIST exploits the fact that each Wikipedia is differently illustrated, mostly with images from Commons but also with fair use images. An item that has sitelinks but no illustrative image can be tested to see if the linked wikis have a suitable one. This works well for a volunteer who wants to add images at a reasonable scale, and a small amount of SPARQL knowledge goes a long way in producing checklists.
Gran Teatro, Cáceres, Spain, at night
It should be noted, though, that there are currently 53 Wikidata properties that link to Commons, of which P18 for the basic image is just one. WD-FIST prompts the user to add signatures, plaques, pictures of graves and so on. There are a couple of hundred monograms, mostly of historical figures, and this query allows you to view all of them. commons:Category:Monograms and its subcategories provide rich scope for adding more.
And so it is generally. The list of properties linking to Commons does contain a few that concern video and audio files, and rather more for maps. But it contains gems such as P3451 for "nighttime view". Over 1000 of those on Wikidata, but as for so much else, there could be yet more.
Hi ClemRutter - would you mind having a look at Everest Community Academy, specifically the bit about misleading exam results at the end? I'm wondering if this is original research and should be taken out. I'm all for picking up schools which overstate results, but I think we'd need a source which says that, rather than an editor who is comparing data themselves? Thanks. Tacyarg (talk) 09:32, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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@Pburka:See your point. We are talking about a radical construction technique dating from the 1820- that must have crossed the pond and been common in the 1850s. It predated all the cast iron work in the great railway terminals, and the wrought iron and steel work of high rise b;ocks. The article fireproofing has little to do with construction- it is about remedial action on non-fireproof structures (generalisation)which is the term used in the NYC Buildin Codes. This is not a suitable landing point for the redirect. Similarly, the paragraph in Cotton mills only talks about pre 1880 stuff. It does look if we need to abandon the redirect, and just write the article. I am focussed on doing a wikithon tomorrow and I am not free till Thursday- so if you wish to start I'll come on in then.--ClemRutter (talk) 15:20, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi ClemRutter! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.
Hey... thanks. That’ll take me more than a few days to read.
Any suggestions for my query at Talk:Gravity#Heavy?
So (just jumping ahead) did the Babylonians have any "machine" to line up their sight of planets? Could they measure position to less than 2 minutes? And Greeks?
(Jumping back...) I guess that was a dumb question; everything (including the sun) was measured against the "fixed stars"; I was imagining something that helped measure angles to the sun and (somehow) longitude or “real time”. MBG02 (talk) 21:13, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This is a hopless article. Let me count the ways: first, a URN is hardly unique to the UK government in the context of schools - all sorts of lists have unique reference numbers. They go under all sorts of names, including 'unique eference number'. Next, that HMG may have a URN for its schools is not notable. It is not notable because it is a commonplace thing - see my first point. Next, the article seems to be about three different URNs, going under different names, such as URN, UKPRN and Ofsted URN. So the content of the article does not match its title - always problematic. You /might/ get the article to fly under a title of, say "UK school numbering systems", but you might equally find that the information can be folded into existing wikipedia articles, such as on DfEE or on Education in the United Kingdom.
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From your remarks on my talk page, I get the impression you don't realize how strict our copyright policy actually is. When writing for Wikipedia, content has to be written in your own words and not include any wording from the source material at all. One thing I find that works for me is to read over the source material and then pretend I am verbally describing the topic to a friend in my own words. Stuff should also be presented in a different order where possible. Summarize rather than paraphrase. This will typically result in your version being much shorter than the source document. There's some reading material on this topic at Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing and/or have a look at the material at Purdue or study this module aimed at WikiEd students. — Diannaa🍁 (talk) 02:25, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Dianna- you have no worries about my understanding of copyvios, for years I have had you on my watchlist. I will on occasions quote your judgements. The issue is how to provide a linkable definition on a merge of two important infoboxes. I provided a quick and easy fix that had two problems- firstly the name was too broad and cannot be used. Secondly, finding a secondary source for the definition, and I sailed too close to the wind. Paradoxically, he fact the article was deleted has established the existence of the definition within the talk page discussion- and that will allow the template editor to use it the redlink. The way we work on WP is through collaboration- this allows others to write the the article within the parameters you have set. Every link you give me is useful. So can I ask for your opinion: how do we square the concerns about close paraphrasing with the need to give a precise definition, which we have here. We need a definition of a URN, LAESTAB and a dfeno- that is current and precise. (The comment about the fact is a copyvio- and needed to be zapped). ClemRutter (talk) 10:03, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you can't re-write it in your own words, don't add it - to do so is a violation of the copyright policy of this website. There's really no exceptions to this. That's why the article had to be deleted. I've made a copyright-compliant version for you in my sandbox so you can see that it's possible to create an article on this topic while complying with the terms of this website. User:Diannaa/sandbox. You can use it if you like, as long as you give proper attribution. — Diannaa🍁 (talk) 14:11, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, ClemRutter. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
Hello, ClemRutter. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
I have had a look- and where do we start. Firstly, the title- Wigston Academy is where most of the stuff should be, we will have trouble establishing notability,for a defunct middle school -- this is going to take a little time. Can I put it on my to do list? We don't want to lose an enthusiastic youngster--but he has a lot to learn. --ClemRutter (talk) 11:57, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
GLAM ♥ data — what is a gallery, library, archive or museum without a catalogue? It follows that Wikidata must love librarians. Bibliography supports students and researchers in any topic, but open and machine-readable bibliographic data even more so, outside the silo. Cue the WikiCite initiative, which was meeting in conference this week, in the Bay Area of California.
Wikidata training for librarians at WikiCite 2018
In fact there is a broad scope: "Open Knowledge Maps via SPARQL" and the "Sum of All Welsh Literature", identification of research outputs, Library.Link Network and Bibframe 2.0, OSCAR and LUCINDA (who they?), OCLC and Scholia, all these co-exist on the agenda. Certainly more library science is coming Wikidata's way. That poses the question about the other direction: is more Wikimedia technology advancing on libraries? Good point.
Wikimedians generally are not aware of the tech background that can be assumed, unless they are close to current training for librarians. A baseline definition is useful here: "bash, git and OpenRefine". Compare and contrast with pywikibot, GitHub and mix'n'match. Translation: scripting for automation, version control, data set matching and wrangling in the large, are on the agenda also for contemporary library work. Certainly there is some possible common ground here. Time to understand rather more about the motivations that operate in the library sector.
Links
Wikidata and Libraries: Facilitating Open Knowledge, book chapter by Mairelys Lemus-Rojas, metadata librarian and Lydia Pintscher, Wikidata Product Manager, from Leveraging Wikipedia: Connecting Communities of Knowledge (2018)
LD4P and WikiCite: Opportunities for collaboration, WikiCite 2018 program abstract, Christine Fernsebner Eslao of Harvard Library Information and Technical Services and Michelle Futornick, Linked Data for Production Program Manager at Stanford University
Hi there, thanks for your recent interest in the Nottingham College Wikipedia article. I have been looking at your edits on the wiki entry and certainly like what I've seen so far. Historically all of the legacy college entries Castle College, South Nottingham College, Central College Nottingham and New College Nottingham (our history is long!) have suffered from poor sources or lack of cited information entirely. Given Nottingham College is now one of the biggest colleges in the UK it certainly does warrant a more detailed and cited entry.
You've probably noticed my declaration that I am an employee of Nottingham College. I'm obviously trying to be careful with my edits to not cause a conflict of interest or bias, but I'm happy to work with you and fact check/cross check the new information format. Happy to discuss further on the talk page on the entry itself.
Sweden report: The Swedish Performing Arts Agency; Library data starts to take shape; Learning Wikipedia at the Archives; Wikimedia Commons Data Roundtripping
USA report: Wikidata Workshop at Pratt School of Information; Wikidata Presentation for the New York Technical Services Librarians; Wikipedia Asian Month; Cleveland Park Wikipedia Edit-a-thon; Historic Ivy Hill Cemetery Workshop
Clem, can I gently say that I find your most recent post on WiR somewhat barking mad, and bordering on or over the border of offensive. You may or may not want to amend it or withdraw it in light of these comments. At best, I think you may have grasped the wrong end of the stick.
I certainly favour a direct approach to the Guardian
Why? Victoria Leonard the author of the piece is a wikipedian. The Wikipedia:Women's Classical Committee to which the article relates, is a wikiproject. So approach the Guardian for what, exactly?
it was obviously a slow news day.
Now imagine you are Victoria, a wikipedian who has just written and got published that article. "it was obviously a slow news day". Offended much? I think so.
To be positive they went to the trouble to print it- and that to my mind was a request from them to get involved. Do contact:John Lubbock WMUK.
Why? To what end?
It was a pity they didn't check the facts with WMUK
Who or what is WMUK? Okay, I know what WMUK is, but why do you think anyone should have contacted it? The figures on article and editor ratios Victoria cites are as accurate as we have. WMUK neither speak for UK Wikipedians nor for Wikipedia as a whole. It's not necessary for anyone writing about wikipedia or wikipedia in the UK to include them in the loop.
And "they" is a wikipedian, not a "they". Again, offended? I think so.
and notice that our CEO is called Lucy, and chairman is called Josie.
Again, what does that have to do with the price of bread? If doesn't alter the ~83:17 M/F ratio. And again, why do you think that WMUK having female officers is of any relevance to the article?
We would love them to join us at the next London Wiki-meetup where Women in Red is always a topic of discussion.
That's ace, although it sounds frankly condescending.
If the Guardian can provide us with a Central London venue we can provide the trainers, to help any group start on their Wikipedia careers. If these became regular it would be a massive PR boost for Guardian newspapers.
The group in question has been editing wikipedia articles for the last 2 years or so. They don't need help "starting their wikipedia careers".
If the Guardian wants to provide the print space we can collaborate in producing a series of articles on the nuts and bolts of using Wikipedia, or the philosophy and ethics of the wiki-world- I am sure there are great similarities between our discussions and their boardroom conversations.
Good luck with that. Completely off topic for the question raised in the thread you posted.
It would be really positive if the Guardian could be more precise about the copyright status of some of their text and images- the authors of a lot of the features would be perfectly happy to have them published under cc-0 or even cc-by-sa 4.0, which would remove a hurdle for our editors- it just need that to be stated in the text. (I am writing this on the assumption that the Guardian will be reading this too). The Guardian needs to know that we do have a large photo-library, which is cheaper to use than an agency! They have a nice regional photolibrary that they could open to us on a CC-BY_SA basis- this would be appreciated by Wikidata. Finally they need to know about the possibility of employing a Wikipedian in resident in the same way that the Wellcome foundation does- they could talk directly to ZeroMonk (Alice).
We certainly are looking at different aspects of the article- you may be right. Yes, I happy to support joint WiR #WCCWiki actions- though classics has never been one of my fields. I am also keen to expand this further and develop contact and co-operation with the Guardian if we can, as that will benefit the whole project. I am surprised that you are not familiar with WMUK (Wikimedia UK) I did provide the wlink. They are our chapter!
Apologies if you didn't appreciate the irony of a slow news day- when HMG is collapsing and reporters are on overtime trying to follow the politics. Victoria's contribution was valid and interesting, the Guardian should though have contacted WMUK for comment, and should have included a quote from Josie.
In anything like this we need to look to how we can exploit it for the good of the project and I have listed some of the ways the Guardian can help us- and I suspect that we will be pushing at an open door. Lets push. I have alerted WMUK by email that the article was written- but apart from that this is the first time I have seen a reference to the article so I see it is entirely appropriate to raise a post here.
I don't think anyone who has read your post spotted any "irony". I know you've offended three readers so far, and, at least, deeply puzzled a fourth. I repeat my invitation to you to redact some or all of the post. To be very clear: it is slap-you-in-the-face offensive, and no amount of "shuck, irony" much later on ameliorates the situation. You need to decide on the balance between preserving what you doubtless thought was well intentioned and useful, versus the impression it's actually making.
The Guardian piece was a personal story by Victoria. There is no reason on God's earth why the Guardian would or should have contacted WMUK. First, it is simply not how personal pieces in newspapers work. Secondly, there was nothing in the article which required any comment from WMUK.
You say "I am surprised that you are not familiar with WMUK (Wikimedia UK) I did provide the wlink. They are our chapter! " Once more, you completely miss the point. "Who or what is WMUK? Okay, I know what WMUK is..." My point - which I see is still not getting through - is that WMUK is completely irrelevant to the issues at hand.
I don't know how Victoria floated her story. I tend to doubt that it signals any great willingness on the part of the Guardian to work with wikipedia. On the basis of your post on WiR and this page, and on the basis of my past exposure to WMUK, I tend to a negative opinion of any WMUK attempt to ride the coat-tails of this article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:28, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Some of the content you added to Multi-academy trust has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. — Diannaa🍁 (talk) 16:43, 24 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2019
Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2019!
Hello ClemRutter, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2019. Happy editing, Whispyhistory (talk) 08:34, 25 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Redrose64 🌹 (talk) is wishing you a MerryChristmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!
Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas6}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
Besides the handiness of Zotero's warehousing of personal citation collections, the Zotero translator underlies the citoid service, at work behind the VisualEditor. Metadata from Wikidata can be imported into Zotero; and in the other direction the zotkat tool from the University of Mannheim allows Zotero bibliographies to be exported to Wikidata, by item creation. With an extra feature to add statements, that route could lead to much development of the focus list (P5008) tagging on Wikidata, by WikiProjects.
Zotero demo video
There is also a large-scale encyclopedic dimension here. The construction of Zotero translators is one facet of Web scraping that has a strong community and open source basis. In that it resembles the less formal mix'n'match import community, and growing networks around other approaches that can integrate datasets into Wikidata, such as the use of OpenRefine.
Looking ahead, the thirtieth birthday of the World Wide Web falls in 2019, and yet the ambition to make webpages routinely readable by machines can still seem an ever-retreating mirage. Wikidata should not only be helping Wikimedia integrate its projects, an ongoing process represented by Structured Data on Commons and lexemes. It should also be acting as a catalyst to bring scraping in from the cold, with institutional strengths as well as resourceful code.
T115158Write a Zotero translator and document process for creating new Zotero translator and getting it live in production, long Phabricator thread 2015–17.
Armenia report: Cooperation with Yerevan Drama Theatre Named After Hrachia Ghaplanian; Singing Wikipedia (continuation); Photographs by Vahan Kochar (continuation)
Hey, I think I've dealt with the worst of the two errors in the header of Elizabeth College (Guernsey). Was hoping you could just skim through to see if it's up to scratch or if there are places that still need work. There are still a few uses of primary sources, a couple of which may be justified (directly quoting the most recent fees charged) and others just about ok for now, but will look to replace soon. As you will see I've already begun rearranging parts of the article and adding new sections (School site and buildings), and will continue with both Governance and expanding the Curriculum sections in due course. Thanks, and have fun tomorrow! Formulaonewiki (talk) 13:31, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Me again. Just wanted to get your thoughts before I make a big edit. I think the sequential school numbers assigned to pupils since 1824, which are inserted in brackets after any notable pupil where known, should be removed as it is unnecessary detail and even potentially confusing in some sections where the year of certain things happening is in brackets. What are your thoughts? Formulaonewiki (talk) 00:38, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Formulaonewiki: Sometimes real life gets in the way. In a word, yes remove them. But do say the school maintains a register and that is indexed with numbers. The school song lyrics were a copyright violation. I have been looking at Wikipedia:Reviewing good articles and related articles for specific ideas on how we can get some further advice available for Wikipedia:Wikiproject Schools articles in the form of an essay. It has taken some time to research- who exactly is doing School GA Reviews so we can find what they are looking for. Look at St George's Academy (and the talk page) which is a fascinating read. It is a GA reviewed as a Wikipedia:Good articles/Social sciences and society.Carlton le Willows Academy is awaiting review.
I was looking at {{GAList}}, and {{GAList2}} to see which dragons you have slain and the remaining problems. 1. Your prose is brilliant. It follows MOS in the required items. 2 a, b yes, 2c no evidence of OR, 2d without using the tools available no plagiarism and the copyvios have gone. 3 broad and tightly focused. 4, 5, 6- NPOV, stable and illustrated. Remove the alumni numbers and resubmit.ClemRutter (talk) 15:16, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ClemRutter: GA nomination submitted. Thanks for the help in getting the article up to scratch and for all your great suggestions. I definitely think the article has the potential to be even better, but it's nice to know it's (hopefully) good article level now. Those reviews and discussions are tremendously insightful, certainly lots to draw from and consider when improving Elizabeth College. Formulaonewiki (talk) 14:09, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The image you added today may have been on commons but the license says is that it is restricted to Non-commercial use- that isn't open enough- we can't use it, even going fair use its difficult to argue that it is 'necessary enough'. One step forward-- ...
Good spot, I'll remove it to be safe. I'm planning on taking some photos of the school buildings and facilities when I'm back so the article should be plentiful with public domain images. However, it's a shame to be unable to use that image given the historical significance of that moment in both Guernsey and the school's history. As you say, one step forward... Formulaonewiki (talk) 01:36, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Recently Jimmy Wales has made the point that computer home assistants take much of their data from Wikipedia, one way or another. So as well as getting Spotify to play Frosty the Snowman for you, they may be able to answer the question "is the Pope Catholic?" Possibly by asking for disambiguation (Coptic?).
Headlines about data breaches are now familiar, but the unannounced circulation of information raises other issues. One of those is Gresham's law stated as "bad data drives out good". Wikipedia and now Wikidata have been criticised on related grounds: what if their content, unattributed, is taken to have a higher standing than Wikimedians themselves would grant it? See Wikiquote on a misattribution to Bismarck for the usual quip about "law and sausages", and why one shouldn't watch them in the making.
Wikipedia has now turned 18, so should act like as adult, as well as being treated like one. The Web itself turns 30 some time between March and November this year, per Tim Berners-Lee. If the Knowledge Graph by Google exemplifies Heraclitean Web technology gaining authority, contra GIGO, Wikimedians still have a role in its critique. But not just with the teenage skill of detecting phoniness.
There is more to beating Gresham than exposing the factoid and urban myth, where WP:V does do a great job. Placeholders must be detected, and working with Wikidata is a good way to understand how having one statement as data can blind us to replacing it by a more accurate one. An example that is important to open access is that, firstly, the term itself needs considerable unpacking, because just being able to read material online is a poor relation of "open"; and secondly, trying to get Creative Commons license information into Wikidata shows up issues with classes of license (such as CC-BY) standing for the actual license in major repositories. Detailed investigation shows that "everything flows" exacerbates the issue. But Wikidata can solve it.
As you attended one of the previous two Manchester meetups and/or expressed an interest in being notified about future ones, this is a heads-up that I have started organising a meetup in Manchester on 9 June 2019 - details are at m:Meetup/Manchester/36. Please feel free to invite others with an interest in Wikimedia/Wikipedia to join us. Thryduulf (talk) 23:09, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I'm 35.12.210.155. I noticed that you recently removed content from Covington Catholic High School without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. 35.12.210.155 (talk) 18:32, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Books & Bytes, Issue 32
The Wikipedia Library
Books & Bytes
Issue 32, January – February 2019
#1Lib1Ref
New and expanded partners
Wikimedia and Libraries User Group update
Global branches update
Bytes in brief
French version of Books & Bytes is now available on meta!
Systematic reviews are basic building blocks of evidence-based medicine, surveys of existing literature devoted typically to a definite question that aim to bring out scientific conclusions. They are principled in a way Wikipedians can appreciate, taking a critical view of their sources.
PRISMA flow diagram for a systematic review
Ben Goldacre in 2014 wrote (link below) "[...] : the "information architecture" of evidence based medicine (if you can tolerate such a phrase) is a chaotic, ad hoc, poorly connected ecosystem of legacy projects. In some respects the whole show is still run on paper, like it's the 19th century." Is there a Wikidatan in the house? Wouldn't some machine-readable content that is structured data help?
Most likely it would, but the arcana of systematic reviews and how they add value would still need formal handling. The PRISMA standard dates from 2009, with an update started in 2018. The concerns there include the corpus of papers used: how selected and filtered? Now that Wikidata has a 20.9 million item bibliography, one can at least pose questions. Each systematic review is a tagging opportunity for a bibliography. Could that tagging be reproduced by a query, in principle? Can it even be second-guessed by a query (i.e. simulated by a protocol which translates into SPARQL)? Homing in on the arcana, do the inclusion and filtering criteria translate into metadata? At some level they must, but are these metadata explicitly expressed in the articles themselves? The answer to that is surely "no" at this point, but can TDM find them? Again "no", right now. Automatic identification doesn't just happen.
Actually these questions lack originality. It should be noted though that WP:MEDRS, the reliable sources guideline used here for health information, hinges on the assumption that the usefully systematic reviews of biomedical literature can be recognised. Its nutshell summary, normally the part of a guideline with the highest density of common sense, allows literature reviews in general validity, but WP:MEDASSESS qualifies that indication heavily. Process wonkery about systematic reviews definitely has merit.
Australia report: International Digital Curation Conference 2019
Belgium report: Wiki Loves Heritage; Wikipedian in Residence at the King Baudouin Foundation
Brazil report: "Our experience with Wikimedians has brought collaborative principles of Wikipedia to our work with archival curation": an interview with the coordinator of the GLAM-Wiki initiative with the Brazilian National Archives
The term Applications Programming Interface or API is 50 years old, and refers to a type of software library as well as the interface to its use. While a compiler is what you need to get high-level code executed by a mainframe, an API out in the cloud somewhere offers a chance to perform operations on a remote server. For example, the multifarious bots active on Wikipedia have owners who exploit the MediaWiki API.
APIs (called RESTful) that allow for the GET HTTP request are fundamental for what could colloquially be called "moving data around the Web"; from which Wikidata benefits 24/7. So the fact that the Wikidata SPARQL endpoint at query.wikidata.org has a RESTful API means that, in lay terms, Wikidata content can be GOT from it. The programming involved, besides the SPARQL language, could be in Python, younger by a few months than the Web.
Magic words, such as occur in fantasy stories, are wishful (rather than RESTful) solutions to gaining access. You may need to be a linguist to enter Ali Baba's cave or the western door of Moria (French in the case of "Open Sesame", in fact, and Sindarin being the respective languages). Talking to an API requires a bigger toolkit, which first means you have to recognise the tools in terms of what they can do. On the way to the wikt:impactful or polymathic modern handling of facts, one must perhaps take only tactful notice of tech's endemic problem with documentation, and absorb the insightful point that the code in APIs does articulate the customary procedures now in place on the cloud for getting information. As Owl explained to Winnie-the-Pooh, it tells you The Thing to Do.
Working With Wikibase From Go, Digital Flapjack blogpost 26 November 2018, Michael Dales, developer for ScienceSource using golang, with a software engineer's view on Wikibase and the MediaWiki API
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Belt and Road Initiative/sandbox requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Jalen D. Folf(talk)17:48, 26 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Talk of cloud computing draws a veil over hardware, but also, less obviously but more importantly, obscures such intellectual distinction as matters most in its use. Wikidata begins to allow tasks to be undertaken that were out of easy reach. The facility should not be taken as the real point.
Coming in from another angle, the "executive decision" is more glamorous; but the "administrative decision" should be admired for its command of facts. Think of the attitudes ad fontes, so prevalent here on Wikipedia as "can you give me a source for that?", and being prepared to deal with complicated analyses into specified subcases. Impatience expressed as a disdain for such pedantry is quite understandable, but neither dirty data nor false dichotomies are at all good to have around.
Issue 13 and Issue 21, respectively on WP:MEDRS and systematic reviews, talk about biomedical literature and computing tasks that would be of higher quality if they could be made more "administrative". For example, it is desirable that the decisions involved be consistent, explicable, and reproducible by non-experts from specified inputs.
What gets clouded out is not impossibly hard to understand. You do need to put together the insights of functional programming, which is a doctrinaire and purist but clearcut approach, with the practicality of office software. Loopless computation can be conceived of as a seamless forward march of spreadsheet columns, each determined by the content of previous ones. Very well: to do a backward audit, when now we are talking about Wikidata, we rely on integrity of data and its scrupulous sourcing: and clearcut case analyses. The MEDRS example forces attention on purge attempts such as Beall's list.
Hi there, could I ask your opinion on this one? The school is tiny - 17 pupils. I PRODed it on this basis but in fact it has been to AfD before in 2014, with a unanimous decision that it should be kept as a secondary school. Do you think there is a point to bringing it up at AfD again? Many thanks, Tacyarg (talk) 22:58, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Short answer-no, we keep. The Ofsted reports give us so much information about the school- that we are not short of references. The website is overloaded with policies- and information. You are right it is tiny- fewer pupils than policies. I think it is notable because it is so small- and the only example of this type of Special Needs School that we have got. Is it of interest to the general reader- I think it is, just in answering the question of what do you do with kids that are too difficult for the state comprehensive to accommodate. It also exposes the ludicrous nature of Ofsted inspections- temperature of the tap water sufficient to close a school! The fact it is a secondary school and we do have a inclusion policy for all recognised secondary, lets us off the hook- the decision has been made for us. There is a nice project here for someone that wants to try to get this from stub to GA. I'll mention this at the London Wikimeetup on Sunday and see if there are any other ideas and views. Cheers.--ClemRutter (talk) 00:16, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks, that's helpful and a useful perspective. I'll sort out the infobox and see if there is anything else I can add. Tacyarg (talk) 08:30, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My first thoughts were to expand the article, Background, History, Curriculum, Extra-curricular activities, Ofsted See also etc. In Background- discuss Needs of Tourettes pupils,advice on how to educate this special needs group- then ADHD, how to educate autistic pupils etc. I wanted to look at the talk pages of the articles and see if we could glean anything from theirs leads.
In Ofsted. (Ofsted criteria for assessing private schools, Ofsted criteria for assessing special schools, Policies a school needs in place)
In Tourettes a FA- I found a copyvio from a reference
I wanted to compare them with other schools in the same category (-well there are none) and compare Ofsted reports! This appears to be a huge task for such a small school, especially if we have to check each of the source articles too. But I'll add it to my watch list. ClemRutter (talk) 09:25, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Two dozen issues, and this may be the last, a valediction at least for a while.
It's time for a two-year summation of ContentMine projects involving TDM (text and data mining).
Wikidata and now Structured Data on Commons represent the overlap of Wikimedia with the Semantic Web. This common ground is helping to convert an engineering concept into a movement. TDM generally has little enough connection with the Semantic Web, being instead in the orbit of machine learning which is no respecter of the semantic. Don't break a taboo by asking bots "and what do you mean by that?"
The ScienceSource project innovates in TDM, by storing its text mining results in a Wikibase site. It strives for compliance of its fact mining, on drug treatments of diseases, with an automated form of the relevant Wikipedia referencing guideline MEDRS. Where WikiFactMine set up an API for reuse of its results, ScienceSource has a SPARQL query service, with look-and-feel exactly that of Wikidata's at query.wikidata.org. It also now has a custom front end, and its content can be federated, in other words used in data mashups: it is one of over 50 sites that can federate with Wikidata.
The human factor comes to bear through the front end, which combines a link to the HTML version of a paper, text mining results organised in drug and disease columns, and a SPARQL display of nearby drug and disease terms. Much software to develop and explain, so little time! Rather than telling the tale, Facto Post brings you ScienceSource links, starting from the how-to video, lower right.
Please be aware that this is a research project in development, and may have outages for planned maintenance. That will apply for the next few days, at least. The ScienceSource wiki main page carries information on practical matters. Email is not enabled on the wiki: use site mail here to Charles Matthews in case of difficulty, or if you need support. Further explanatory videos will be put into commons:Category:ContentMine videos.
This is an invite to/reminder of the Manchester Meetup on 9 June 2019. Starting at about 1pm on Sunday 9 June in the Sir Ralph Abercombie, 35 Bootle Street, Manchester. Full details are on the Meta page at m:Meetup/Manchester/36. It would be useful if you could say whether you're likely to be coming so we have a rough idea of how many to people expect and how large a table to reserve. Thanks, and hope to see you there. Thryduulf (talk) 13:30, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A page you started (Gelmini reform) has been reviewed!
May I suggest that you write a sentence or two based on the sources? No one else is commenting and is two people you and i agreeing consensus?Ndołkah (talk) 01:42, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Brief reply I have a long way to drive this morning so I am not concentrating on Wikipedia. This is not a bad thing- as we need to allow time for editors who contribute less frequency to read the thread. We have a lot of options open now, and text can be reproduced when the article is longer. I also need to consult further with other colleagues... I will be back in a week. Don't go away. --ClemRutter (talk) 07:37, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sphilbrick. Good morning. I take it that we are really discussing edit oldid=901743726. To a non-US reader these are the mysteries that we are trying to explain. In my judgement I had sufficiently rewritten the text (and downgraded the quality) to have passed the originality threshold- but this can always be debated. As a non-US editor, I don't have the artifacts and other references on hand to do much better. Could you then replace the paragraph in your own words using your resources. The text must be terse so it doesn't become WP:UNDUE- but does need to explain the grading system, and how schools and students are held to account! Maybe it would be better to work up the definite text on the Talk:High school (North America) and to carry on this discussion there. --ClemRutter (talk) 07:33, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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I removed the image you added to illustrate the lotus position in this article. While your intentions are clearly good, I think it's best not have a picture of an identifiable non-consenting living person in a kink article. -- The Anome (talk) 08:57, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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If you wish to continue discussing Eric Corbett and his work, you can now freely do so here. Due to the quantity and quality of his work, there will be many times when he and his work needs to be re-evaluated, discussed. I intend this page to remain active as long as Eric’s own page is protected and/ or censored. I shall moderate the page, but other than archiving when necessary I will only remove comments which are abusive or insulting. Anything goes, Eric was an undeniably controversial figure who drew differing opinions, but so long as the language is acceptable and polite, I will let all comments stand. Giano(talk)10:34, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Just start with Secondary school. I am working on the meta-articles Secondary school as distinct from Secondary education and then doing the same for Primary school as distinct from Primary education. When your edit count gets particular high, other editor leave it to you and walk off- it gets a little lonely and you sre deprived of feedback. I need suggestions about direction structure understandability from someone outside the schools sector- and also from a non UK perspective. Any comments really appreciated. --ClemRutter (talk) 10:14, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Whispyhistory: Individual schools is a whole new ball-game. We do have WP:WPSCH/AG to give guidance, and comments about the shortcomings of that page is also vwry valuable.It dates rapidly and has to be written in general terms so it doesn't end up being country specific. Dunraven School is fairly typical of the 5800 secondary and independant schools in England, that need doing and regularly updating. Thanks for the TLC you gave it. However I don't think knowledge organiser is notable. ClemRutter (talk) 01:42, 15 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes there are enough references to make this wiki-notable. The term is only four years old, but I have been using something similar for decades. In fact while developing my skills in !975, we did a session at the Hereford Teacher Centre on improving our chalk board techniques which involved having a panel on the roller-board that was kept unchanged for several weeks containing this type of information. When we moved onto producing teaching bookets, we would do something similar on the contents page or before the index- OK, very few teachers were as keen on material production.
We get a clue when we see that this innovation happened in a school run by Birbalsingh- a women who has a massive political agenda who is convince by free schools and her one-size fits all philosophy of education (zero tolerance and rote learning mainly - an extrapolation of her own needs). This mind-map is what you have to use if you are going train teenagers by her method. Also claiming intellectual ownership of a centuries old technique makea a good press release- and an opportunity to grab somme free Wikipedia publicity.
The free school movement and multi-academy trusts building are having to continually innovate. What I am seeing at Leigh Academies Trust is that their new methods are actually using the systems that were used on the same site in 2003- the systems which Ofsted excoriated. They forced the 'failing' school, to convert into an academy, which was passed from trust to trust until it as been rescued by Leigh using ....
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Hi, ClemRutter. I've looped back to this version ...8031 of the Sacred Heart article – i.e., where it stood before I started messing with it – and hope to discuss its merits, defects, and how parts of it might be merged with the rewrite that's been partially rolled out. You had mentioned in the talk section of the article that this older version was more to your liking, while acknowledging that the existing FAs for WPSCH take editors in a different direction.
Just to kick things off, I'll start by going through the old version piece by piece (and using a by-now-familiar grading system), with my critique in the second column. There's a column at the right for your rejoinder, if you want to tackle it this way. (I hope the third column expands as you add text. My html skills are insufficient to figure out how to pre-expand this without putting in a bunch of non-breaking spaces or fixing the column width.)
Section
Ottoump comments
ClemRuttercomments
Structure
The article is about the schools- if there is a prep, there must be a junior high? I assume that there is an elementary school on site. We don't write articles on schools taking kids under 11- they are not notable. But we try to include them within an another article like this one- here the test is referenced from a reliable source. So I want a one or two paragraph section on each. The major part of the article will remain on the offer at the notable prep school level. The section on buildings is missing- and other related buildings on campus
Info Box
B Unnecessary grade-level enrollment detail; J. Whitcomb is too prominent... Dioli calls the shots for the whole school
C- "Independent, private" is effectively redundant; "very few coeducational" and "about 100 faculty and staff" is vague/lazy; "across the street from Menlo Park" is imprecise; the emphasis on Sacred Heart Preparatory ignores the other parts of the multi-division school (one continguous campus, one name, freeflow upward progression of students, overlapping events, etc.)
When an article moves from a one paragraph stub to a real article- a lot of that paragraph just remeins in the lead. The lead should be a summary of the article so does not need to have references as they will occur lower down. The first paragraph and particuarly the first sentence is the bit that is picked up bby search engines so should be terse and provide lots of wikilinks. Internal wikilinks go to headings- or to {{anchor}}.
History
D Barely scratches the surface; "1970s" is inaccurate; "one of only three" is inaccurate: ten of 24 teach boys at some divisions; two are co-ed after grade 8 while two others keep boys and girls separate; only SHS is fully co-educational from K-12; mentions its change to "Sacred Heart Schools Atherton" (sic) but offers no further elaboration
Rewrite which is basically what has happened
Academics
D- Dated and undifferentiated. Opening sentence is unsupported puffery.
Reply: Let's rename it Curriculum. They have dedicated RE classes from grades 6-12, but the extent that they're ecumenical/interreligious is unclear, although the SHS website explicitly says they are. NB – The school is truly independent, as it isn't owned/operated by a parish, diocese or archdiocese, nor is it owned by the founding organization (Society of the Sacred Heart). No priests or nuns are on the faculty, AFAIK. And the board list (which I can't find publicly-accessible) has only two nuns on it. SHS states an obligation to abide by the five goals of the Society. Ottoump (talk) 23:25, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I do dislike this US related term Academics. UK side we use curriculum- and talk about whether the classes are setted or streamed or mixed ability and how far the school deviates from the National Currriculum or the IB (this is the reason that many folk deschool their kids. This is a Catholic School so we would look to discuss dedicated RE classes- and the pervasiveness of doctrine within other subjects. There is the issue of year group masses and class chaplains, influences of the parishes and provision made for non-Catholic Children. There are lots of false ideas spread by protestants about what happens within an RC school- (I worked in one for four happy years) There was also the issue of ethnicity- and how it boosts results- and how many chidren are sponsored by the parishes. Academic Success Center looks like something we would discuss under SEN (Special Needs Provision) which could become a sub section here.
Athletics
B Not a single working, external reference.
Sorry- This is not a major function of a school over here- but I think you have got that covered
Fine arts
C- Nothing remarkable.
Reply: What if we renamed this Performing arts and moved it, Athletics, and the club that works with the retirement home as subsections under Extracurricular activities? Ottoump (talk) 23:25, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Only needed if somthing over and above the normal happens.
Programs for students
C+ Way too long. Dioli gardens is noteworthy, but too long and no external reference. Academic Success Center sounds like an ad. Radio and TV stations are worth mentioning but are unreferenced and don't deserve a subhed.
Agreed. Programs for students heading is wrong- Additional programs could be a better title and you could then include a paragraph on the Retirement home for former sisters
Relationship with other Schools of the Sacred Heart
B I thought this was different and noteworthy, but it completely lacks references and I couldn't find anything external (and not much internal) written about it.
Reply: To my knowledge, the other schools do not set curriculum or have any staffing related role. It sounds like more of a built-in student exchange opportunity (and only if you're female, given the predominance of all-girl schools on the list). Ottoump (talk) 23:25, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This sounds important particuarly if they cooperate with setting the curriculum or Human Resourses
On the other hand, there seem to be a lot of parts that are missing. Award-winning LEED buildings, a retirement home for 54 nuns in the center of campus, a class that slaughters campus-raised goats (looking for the reference on the slaughtering part), a rivalry football tradition that raises money for charity, proximity to Stanford, and the like. Ottoump (talk) 21:37, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, peoples rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension. Happy Holidays to you and yours. ―Buster7☎ 17:29, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
Northern Education Trust
Hi ClemRutter, hope you're well. I'm struggling to get a response via the Northern Education Trust talk section. Are you able to review the proposed article lead:
"Northern Education Trust is a not-for-profit education charity, operating within the North East and North West of England, and works with schools by invitation only. It was formed in 2012 and currently sponsors 21 Academies – 11 primary and 10 secondary – making it one of the largest Multi Academy Trusts in the North of England. Its academies service some of the most deprived communities in the North. It’s vision is “We constantly focus on standards as we understand outcomes are paramount. Our decision making is driven entirely by what is best for children. By doing this we enhance the life chances of the children and young people in our care”. The Trust strives to help young people overcome any barriers to learning, such as poor behaviour, and has implemented a culture of high expectations of behaviour from its students. When focusing on dealing with persistent disruptive behaviour, academies can sometimes see a temporary rise in fixed term exclusions, and the Trust has experienced media interest in this. [1] Outcomes for students do improve though, once behaviour standards rise, and the results of the Northern Education Trust academies have consistently improved year on year from 2017." Thanks for your help. Tside90 —Preceding undated comment added 11:39, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
At the risk of stepping in it, I added a {{citation needed}} to the Drama section of the Eton page. When you referred me to it, I was thinking that Eton practically defines notable and that it should scarcely need internal references, etc. And indeed, it is a very impressive article. But oh-my-gosh it weighs it at 9,600 words and has, by my rough count, 22 internal references (plus one from imdb). And the drama section is written too fawningly for an encyclopedia, and without a single reference. If you think I'm out of bounds, please revert it or ask me to do so. Ottoump (talk) 20:02, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You are spot on. I think you should put a similar comment on Talk:Eton College. I cannmot see the value of giving a list of well known plays, WP:WPSCH/AG says that teachers should not normally be mentioned unless they are notable. I don't share your word count lust- if it can be said, it should be. Disk space is cheap but I do like to remove padding. I think you could improve this article. Steven (Editor) do you have any thoughts on this? Would it GA for instance? ClemRutter (talk) 21:00, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Clem! All the warmest wishes for this seasonal occasion, whichever you celebrate - or don't, while I swelter at 27℃ (80.6℉), and peace and prosperity for 2020. Seriously hoping that you'll join me for a cool beer in Bangkok in August when it will be even hotter! Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:40, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sultan consigliere granddaughter alive and well! My family plenty of special protectors raised by gurulamma Jin peoples says Julian Asia GE is being horrifically tortured b England govt Swiss shit liars in science too man never went to moon!, Swiss family Robinson my family clue to whom took our maps and Hawaii became rothchilds scumm sleaze England’s Molokai proof leopracy never existed a fable of their bible built on my sultan family’s back1900ss mid very evil then after genicide got Europe from Ireland to Russia ,,,,she was able to figh as my sultan great grandparents taken to Cuba for England’s human zoo and torture!! My great grandma released in1950 my consigliere grandma sad her whole life!,,my French Islam family in France too suffered horribly! Julian assange needs rescuing overthrow govt England they way too evil to exist!im in Canada Vancouver North Vancouver jazzy zzz was our false ticket into Canada but unlucky us never knew England got a sultans ransoms!,,Islam peoples means pure science no false god or religion just fosters growth in humanity all humans equal! No such thing as word religion England’s dictionary of evil creates words for control oppression and mind fucking conditioning to ruin beautiful creative imagination thinkers of furthering science based always in hard solid evidence based science of proofs not falsified!,I’m born sultan family Walt Disney too in family tree our haunted house California!no affiliation with Orlando money grabbing scumm!,, my old Hollywood Charlie and Noel from silent film our broadway new York originals Rogers Hammerstein chatty Chittagong bang bang my movie! I drowned at 15 months ! My special peoples brought life back to me in 1964 April I was originally born 1962 nov 27 to sultan family consig my grandma my father her son Jacques John Osborne and his wife Olga from Prussia Russia Ukraine sultan turkey Asia Minor!, free Julian he is sufferrring!uCite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page).</ref>
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Hi, we were recently debating on an AfD nomination for an indian school in Lucknow. I deem it more appropriate to discuss opinions here rather than on AfD. You mention that schools are important, kind of like benevolent entities that create the citizens of tomorrow. While that is what their true purpose SHOULD be, and many schools do work on that, schools in India have a different take.
Most public schools are free, or heavily subsidized, some are good, some are bad.
Private schools are the ones that deserve more scrutiny, I would personally vote to make them have the same criteria as companies do-
There are schools as small as a just 4 rooms, to some covering a hundred or more acres.
Some have exorbitantly high fees, some are actually cheap(because their facilities are that bad), some are good and cheap(most likely subsidized by external donations).
Most private institutions have a selfish purpose, of those most are for-profit, charging extremely high amounts, many times the national per capita income. Then a bunch of convents, funded by religious ministries both national and international, of various religions, slyly promoting their religious values. Another bunch of religiously funded schools that truly serve a good purpose.
Schools are considered a good investment option for many people, they consider it a good business in a populous country with many kids living close to the school. They run it like a business, just like how one sets up franchises of restaurants for profit, and actively "compete" with nearby schools, advertising themselves on billboards, local TV etc.
I would opt for indian schools to be considered just as how you consider notability for companies, and not make them notable by default, most dont deserve that. Daiyusha (talk) 07:17, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Search engines are a mystery! Often then show the Wikipedia article first but we cannot guarentee that. It may come back as suddenly as it went. Don't panic. Wikidata is a wikipedia project that is designed to be read by machines. Universities will make queries such as Number of items of type Q12345 where attribute 567 < 120. This is very useful to the researcher- but not to the reader who only speaks human languages! Yes another mystery.
Hello dear sir,
Sorry for disturbing you again But I have to ask, "Is the result of Afd based on votes (i.e, no. of counts of keep and delete)"? And also, I previously read a wiki content their mentioned admin decides the result of Afd in 7 days but for my article today is 7th day and till now I got no result. I don't know why but I am getting panic? Sturdyankit (talk) 10:04, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I can't answer your question. I suspect, that after 7 days it will be tagged- decision needed and go on a Admin to-do list. An Admin who does closures will look at the arguments and make a decision: Keep, Delete, Or no consensus. I expect they will see the ongoing debate and say No consensus- re list. They will be applying the test- is it notable under WP:GNG. References in local printed material are important. Your photograph is good. What exactly do the students study? even a photograph of a letter to the parents as a reference would help. What are the successful students from there doing, where did they go? You said that there was a legal issue that caused it to convert from private to government school. Where is that written down? What was the problem? What did the official say? Was there money involved? Where is that written down? ClemRutter (talk) 12:05, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dear sir,
Can I edit my article if it get draftified if yes, where? actually my granny is no more so, I can't work on my article for some time so, I decided to be draftified and I will work after a short time. one more thing, will it appear on search engines ? And if I again edit it from drafts will it again goes for deletion discussion.
Please respond sir, thanks for your every suggestions it shows me a way. Sturdyankit (talk) 22:23, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Quick answer. Yes you can edit any article in Draft: space. That is its purpose. I believe that most search engines will find it- but not give it so much priority. Deletion- yes, it will be safe especially while you keep working on it. --ClemRutter (talk) 10:06, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. I see in a recent addition to St James' Catholic High School, Stockport you included material from a webpage that is available under a compatible Creative Commons Licence. That's okay, but you have to give attribution so that our readers are made aware that you copied the prose rather than wrote it yourself. I've added the attribution for this particular instance. Please make sure that you follow this licensing requirement when copying from compatibly-licensed material in the future. — Diannaa (talk) 18:18, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks, I'll gradually move back and zap a few previous mistakes. Is there any point in wrapping the text in a simple template? A {{Ofsted}} exists, but does something else. --ClemRutter (talk) 21:56, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Cassell's Italian English Dictionary, 1958.- prossimo also given in the context of a specific day of the week, and seguente in the context of a sequence.ClemRutter (talk) 00:03, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Dear sir, I create an article in my draftspace about a female leader and when it get completed I tried to move it to article page but there someone previously uses her name and redirects her name to new name (his husband's name).
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Dear ClemRutter - wondered if you could advise me about this one. I've been editing the St Bees School article for promotional language and unsourced info. Still got quite a lot to do. I'm a bit daunted by the fact of there being a separate History of St. Bees School article, also lengthy and not well-referenced. Do you think there is a case for merging the two articles? Thanks, Tacyarg (talk) 10:07, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Tacyarg: Now there's a challenge. But an interesting one. There may be other ways to go about this but I would rewrite the first sentence to read St Bees School is a new co-educational independent school located in the West Cumbrian village of St Bees on the site of an ancient school with the same name. It was registered on 28/03/2018, and has subsquently been inspected by Ofsted and rated as a good school. <ref name="Ofsted Report 2018">{{cite web |title=Ofsted Report 2018 |url=https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/50038720 |website=ofsted.gov.uk |accessdate=27 April 2020}}</ref>
This opens up the chance to rewrite the history section (to 1988) as history of the former school. Similarly the history section can then become a history of the buildings rather than that of financial failure. The Ofsted report and the GIAS, gives some details of the present school- I prefer the heading Academics rather than Academic achievement which is a form of bragging. I am happy to write KS3, KS4 stuff. The existence of taught Chinese sounds exciting. I would be quick to remove all the future tense aspirational stuff.
So onto the other article. Leave it for the moment- it may end up as Alumni of St Bees. It would be a shame to waste a wonderful word Beghians. I hope that gives you a few ideas- it was great to get a message from an old friend. ClemRutter (talk) 13:56, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hello there. This is an invitation to join the 50,000 Destubbing Challenge Focus of the Week. £250 (c. $310) up for grabs in May, June and July with £20 worth of prizes to give away every week for most articles destubbed. Each week there is a different region of focus, though half the prize will still be rewarded for articles on any subject. Sign up if you want to contribute at least one of the weeks or support the idea! † Encyclopædius19:15, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Hi Clem. Thanks for your work getting the draft into a better shape. Your account has the ability to publish the draft if you think it is ready. To do this, just move it to the main space (More > Move > change "Draft" to "(Main)" > Move page). Hope this helps, 1292simon (talk) 23:43, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Montagu whaler
Thanks for putting this article together. I have dived in and made a few tweaks and additions, but great to see that the RN Museum in Portsmouth has a rigged version (though it's a pity they show it in reefed condition) - but I note the photo was taken in 2008. I hope this example is still preserved.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 09:57, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for August 7
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So I sat down at the computer, googled the horse harness find I'd been hearing about on the news, read a couple of articles, then turned to stub-sorting: one of the first I spot as "needing a defaultsort" was... this lad. I think he's a BLP1E, will need to become a redirect to the article on the hoard once that's been created. But good work anyway. I found sources in BBC and Scotsman, which has an extra rather nice photo. Amazing find, anyway. PamD07:41, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, inspired by the last paragraph of the Scotsman ref I've now created Horsehope Craig Hoard for one found in 1865, including adding a map using OSM Location, inspired by yours in the Surge of Power article: thanks for alerting me to it by your comment on the talk page there that not a lot of people use it, or words to that effect. I'll add it to my "list of useful stuff" in my sandbox.
We need an article on the new hoard, even if we have to invent a placeholder name for it (Peebles Hoard?), even if then has to be moved to an official name. (The Silverdale Hoard wasn't found in Silverdale, but the landowner and detectorist both live in Silverdale and everyone was happy to obfuscate the actual location in the next parish, beside which "Silverdale" has a better sound for a hoard than the "how do you pronounce it" of Yealand!) Then needs to be added to List of Bronze Age hoards in Great Britain. PamD09:29, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On your authority- the Peebles Hoard it is, and all the connections made. I now need someone who understands the topic to take over- though just a thought, a nice fair use mug shot will give us something to discuss! I might be able to cobble that together.ClemRutter (talk) 11:22, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, does that now complicate matters? Can we still use that pic if he isn't the topic of the article, only an important figure in it? I don't normally go anywhere near fair use images except logos and book/journal covers! PamD13:35, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well the answer is either yes, at the time of upload the statement was correct, or if not we'll soon find out! I am not going to get precious about it- we just leave it close to the Discovery section- possibly on the left. When we get a fair use image of the hoard it may have to go- or be txed to another article, ClemRutter (talk) 14:53, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give Business Academy Bexley a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into Harris Garrard Academy. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.
In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Requests for history merge. Thank you. Steven (Editor) (talk) 20:32, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Steven (Editor) Thanks for watching. I never use these templates as they as so patronising. It just struck me it would be really good if you could to make it to the next London Meetup which like everything is on Zoom. Its mainly what the Germans call a Stammtisch but it keeps you up with the gossip, and gives you a sounding board for new ideas. ClemRutter (talk) 22:59, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Steven (Editor) The aim is to locate all the secondary schools in the Harris Federation and write a start class article on each one. What I require is an infobox with and URL and a navbox, two references , and Ofsted will usuaally be one, and a logo and a map (a pushpin will do- until your mapframe arrives) and 1500 characters of text. Those were the requirements for the Destubathon a couple of months ago. I can't leave it there- so I need to have a meaningful ==Academics== section, This can usually be constructed from the school website using the keywords "Curriculum Intent". Harris Academy Ockendon produced two 12 page document, which I am assimilating. I have put a poor synopsis on our page- as holding text, but there are so much detail on currect educational theory and practice that it will rightfully double the article size.
Back to Riverside- I have got their intent documents and honestly, they need a good rewriting. As they share an Executative head. I fully expect that they will be rewritten in the next twelve month and this has been delayed by Corvid. I was pulled away from Garrard before I could do anything useful and haven't even checked if there are any duplicate articles under different Bexley names.
I see, that's good :D - I was looking at the Harris Academy Ockendon, it's look good but I've noticed a few problems. For example, "The Ockenden Academy was a popular 11 to 18 medium-sized comprehensive school that was strong on pastoral care, with well behaved pupils and a good sixth form programme" — this is promotional. The description section is redundant, the text here is usually mentioned in the lead paragraph (don't forget the school article guidelines).
The text "the school opened in 1956, named the Lennard's Secondary Modern School" — the given citation next to it doesn't say this? The text "When Essex converted to the non-selective comprehensive school system, Lennard's became Culverhouse Comprehensive School" — the given citation next to it doesn't say this? The next sentence says "In April 2009, the school became designated as a Training School" — the given citation next to it doesn't say this too, it's just an FAQ page?
The text "In August 2010, the school received the highest pass rate in its GCSE examinations, with 98% achieving A*-C grades" is missing a source. The section Curriculum content needs to be reworded, because it sounds like it's talking about schools in general rather than Harris Academy Ockendon, the subject of the article.
We are working to get this up to a C- there's lots of shakey stuff. I leave it it the more talented to get it to GA! The Ofsted report is thin on history. I have not yet discovered the nature Culverhouse- there is a Blog post to it being two schools Culverhouse Boys and CulverhouseGirls. The comments on strengths are my paraphrasing of the Ofsted Report that put it in special measures. Do you know Essex? A neighbour works 2km away and had never encountered the school- it is rather devoid of local historians or histories. The primary sources are brilliant! - over the next six weeks we can build it up but it will be slow and my priority is destubbing or writing articles on the remaining academies first. ClemRutter (talk) 21:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
An interesting question is what is the copyright status of academy policy documents that they are required to write by HMG and required to make available to the public. Required to submit to Ofsted that itself since 2018 has been required to publish under a OGL. Any thoughts?
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Harris Academy Ockendon, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Ockenden.
I notice you have been creating a few school articles. Good job! But please be aware that despite their names most 'new schools' opened in the last 5 years or so are actually Free schools, not academies. I have changed Harris Academy Riverside and Harris Academy Sutton but I just thought i'd give you a heads up. Bleaney (talk) 16:39, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You have probably guessed that I am continuing the Destubathon. I had destubbed Norfolk secondary schools and Rich had drawn up the list of target schools in Lincolnshire but I got distracted by the Harris Federation and its rich array of stubs! The navbox is useful- nonexistant articles redirect back to Harris Federation. I am near the end, so now I can go back and hone the ==Academics== and the building description.
There are some interesting questions. Harris prides itself on getting the paperwork in order so it always gets an Outstanding Ofsted judgement. What is the copyright status of the governor approved policy docs. As they are input documents for Ofsted, who publishes almost everything under OGL. They must be open to the public- is it possible that they are open source. ClemRutter (talk) 19:59, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Far too soon to say. If we just left it there it is WP:UNDUE however when we have added the massive amount of material we have about the award winning building and joint community use, and the new insight we have on Curriculum Intent and 'Teaching and learning'. I have still to get my head round the history, the governance and sponsoring by invictus, the local community group. You have to contrast the 2012 race riots with the use of architecture and the atmosphere in the reported in 2016- which at the time was the story. It is easy to tell a bad news story- this is a lot harder. If you read between the lines, this was one of the schools that ran a two year KS3 and was admonished by ofsted, and now has reverted. It is far more positive to talk to editors you know on the talk page first. If you were to start to work on Harris Academy Tottenhamfor example- I would stay clear, and just make Talk: comments, till you felt you could go no further. I will continue on this one till it has got structure and touching on a 'C". Once we have destubbed all the Harris Academies, I want to go back and improve each one of them. I am so much clearer on available info on statutory policies. In the medium term, could you start thinking about a simple metric we could use distinguish between Start/C C/B so the process is less random. Have you any idea when the pushpin maps will be redundant? Enough for tonight! ClemRutter (talk) 23:06, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As far as i'm aware, ALL brand new schools established in the last 5 years or so will either be Free Schools, UTCs or Studio Schools. Although these types of school fall under the 'Academy programme' they are legally distinct. The only new 'academies' will be existing schools that convert to academy status. I generally use the DfE website as this tends to be accurate (if a little out of date at times). They generally get the terms right and don't publish inaccurate information. Bleaney (talk) 12:08, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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WhisperToMe Thanks for the research- I have absolutely no time to get involved- it was used solely to make a point. I made a comment some time back about the need to destub schools articles- and that will keep me busy for the next couple of decades. I have done Norfolk, and nearly completed all of the Harris Federation schools, and naturally that has raised other interesting and time-consuming hares to follow.
One interesting concept is the different ways a curriculum is experienced. It has been suggested as
Intended curriculum (the required knowledge, skills, and understanding as outlined).
Enacted curriculum(the curriculum as delivered by individual teachers).
Assessed curriculum (the knowledge, skills, and understanding, students are tested on).
Learned curriculum (the knowledge, skills, and understanding students assimilate)
This has been colouring my thinking about the canon of knowledge in Wikipedia. Maybe that 'wikipedia is not a directory' is our intended 'curriculum' but I am damned sure that it is for many 'the learned experience' (de facto). Give a child a tablet and a poor internet connection- WP is the only source they have or want. If they don't arrive directly- they come via Google who thinks we are everything and a directory.
One of the factors that changes the intended curriculum to the enacted curriculum is the ability and prejudices of the teachers. I do see teachers with absolutist views,(Fundamental Christians and the Jesuits come to mind) impeding the intention. Often they defeat the overall purpose, by choosing a small point and creating a mantra. It becomes their personal rock. They are unshakeable and usually wrong.
So there's a point of view. I haven't the ability really to work this up- I lack the necessary PhD. I just feel that there we are going the wrong way.ClemRutter (talk) 10:33, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Hi, as I was going thru Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors, I came across a bunch of Lancashire cotton mills articles. I fixed a whole bunch of the easy ones. Please help fix the rest:
Havelock Mills: none of the 4 short refs correspond to a bibliography entry
Also, please install a script to highlight such errors in the future. All you need to do is copy and paste importScript('User:Svick/HarvErrors.js');// Backlink: [[User:Svick/HarvErrors.js]] to your common.js page.
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Hi Clem
thanks for messaging me, it is good to speak with you! At the moment i'm doing a 'sweep' of schools in England, using Lists of schools, school navboxes and categories as a guide. i'm working through all schools in England by region and then county, so I've already done the East of England, East Midlands, Greater London and North East England. I've now started North West England and finished Cheshire, shortly to begin Cumbria.
In terms of what i'm actually doing to articles- I'm checking articles to see their names are up to date, to see whether their status has changed (converted to an academy or closed etc), adding or updating DfE URNs, adding or updating school 'types', checking they are listed in alphabetical order, adding school infoboxes to articles that don't have them, 'rescuing' articles that are essentially orphaned or miscategorised and doing general small tidys. I'm not at the moment going 'in depth' to improve articles... I suppose you could call it 'helicopter editing' if you like haha. if I have time I could be up for attending a virtual London meetup. happy editing! Bleaney (talk) 14:22, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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a few minutes before you posted your edit, I had already added a "December 2020" section covering essentially the same ground;
your edit seems to relate to Phase Two of the inquiry, but you posted yours outside of the Phase Two section of the article, rather than adding it as a sibling to the existing dated sections from Phase Two.
Would you be willing to either revert your edit, or to consolidate it with mine, both to avoid having duplicate content in the article and to avoid having Phase Two-related content outside of the Phase Two section of the article? Thanks again, Zazpot (talk) 02:13, 9 December 2020 (UTC); edited 02:16, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please go ahead and revert and consolidate. As you see, I try to update the article with any new material that Robert Booth publishes in the Guardian- it doesn't mean that I turn my brain on first! Thanks for asking first.ClemRutter (talk) 09:52, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have blocked your account, because in spite of repeated warnings, you continued to add copyright material to Wikipedia in violation of our copyright policy. You cannot resume editing until you provide a statement describing how copyright applies to Wikipedia, show that you understand our copyright policy, and make a commitment to follow it in the future.— Diannaa (talk) 15:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Copyvios are very serious but I have not received warning, or indication what has triggered this action.User:Diannaa is very diligent, and knowledgeable and she must have picked up something I have missed. Something that may need urgent action. All my edits are referenced but I haven't been told which one is causing offence. In context, I am a content creator and looking at Xtools will show I have made 6200 edits this year and 39000 in total of which 600 have been deleted. I made 26 contributions yesterday alone. I have had 5 conversations copyvio control, two with Dianna in the past which were successfully concluded. I do not consider a conversation about about unrelated edits in September and April 2017 to be repeated warnings. Then as always her advice was accepted it is a mystery to me what this new incident is and why I was not contacted earlier on my talk page or the article talkpage, which is the way I would have handled it. Time would then have been saved. ClemRutter (talk) 16:30, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
Accept reason:
Unblocking based on the past trend of amicably resolving the issues, which I trust will also happen here, and that an indef block seems really excessive in this situation. Let's see what happens at CCI for the longer term issue. Mike Peel (talk) 17:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Diannaa:. Maybe if you could do me the courtesy to inform me which of the 6000 content creating edits I have made this year is causing offence I could take a look at it. You have made valuable suggestions to me in the past, and I considered that each of the incidents had been satisfactory closed I am a little surprised that you haven't posted a note on my talk page to say you had a further concern. As far as I am aware, everything I post is fully referenced so should be easy to check. ClemRutter (talk) 15:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) I am at work right now but just wanted to post a quick note. I found multiple violations on Thinking School, a new article which you created. I have not finished cleaning it yet, as I had to go to work, and I doubt there will be much content left when I am done. It appears the whole article is blocks of text copied from other (copyright) websites. You've received five warnings, two of them this year, so it seems to me the time for warnings has past, regardless of the amount of good work you do here. — Ninja Diannaa (Talk) 17:00, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the quick response. Shall we put this in context: I spawned this article from Thinking Schools Academy Trust(TSAT) which I was examining because of Rochester Grammar School and newspaper report that didn't tie up to our article that was overly saccrine. TSAT is a MAT but about a half of it was an unintellible description of 'Thinking Schools'. I created a new page saying where the text had come from. I did not check then the text I had moved for copyvio- major error. Next stage of the clean up was to move sections to open it up to future edits.
There were two interesting referencing problems here. There were an abundance of references from individual school websites, all seeming to source back to the Exeter university Web site and a lot of similar cut and pastes. Using the policy that Primary Sources are permitable- but only for fact (as here) but a secondary source is also needed. This is still a delicate balancing act. We have two independent source that I could use. I think that we have a disagreement about how closely we should paraphrase (and advice welcome) , but I understand that you cannot copyright fact so it is perfectly acceptable to cut and paste phrases made up of technical terms and do not express an opinion or BIAS by what is omitted. I understand that it is the creative edit that is copyrighted not the words used. There is a permitted percentage of copyrightable text that can be used, and I am very careful to use the minimum. The percentage of any text of the source article or any source paragraph is low and then always reworded or paraphrased. If you think I have gone to close for every international incarnation of copyright law then please just tag the phrase. I am not sure that the tools available are sensitive enough to distinguish between violation and close paraphrasing.
Back to the article, we now need to complete the Accreditation section, there is list there which I am debating on removing and then have a formal process to describe, for which I am still looking for some more independent references. I am sure that when you have looked at this more closely you will wish to delete any violations I missed leaving an inline comment, and restore the framework text. My edit window has now closed so a longer reply is not too urgent. ClemRutter (talk) 19:46, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You are correct that fair use laws allow a certain amount of copying, but that rule does not apply to Wikipedia editing. The amount of copying you should be doing is none at all. Wikipedia has a very strict copyright policy, stricter in some ways than copyright law itself, because Wikipedia's fair use policy does not allow us to copy material from copyright sources when there's a freely licensed alternative available. In this case the freely licensed material is prose that we write ourselves. So please, no copying of text from your sources. Exceptions include things like job titles, names of schools, alphabetical lists, etc.— Diannaa (talk) 22:03, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Kirkby High School, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages BTEC and Knowsley.
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Submission for Addition to Bank Street School of Education Article
Hi ClemRutter,
I hope 2021 is treating you well. I have been working on a draft for an additional section to Bank Street College of Education. This new section has information about Bank Street School for Children, an entity within Bank Street College of Education. Info included in this section: Bank Street School for Children description, school structure, curriculum, admissions info, extracurricular activities, and notable alumni and faculty. I would very much appreciate your review and feedback, and, hopefully, its addition to Bank Street's current wikipedia article. Let me know your thoughts. Many thanks in advance.
-- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 19:03, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Danielklotz: I have had a quick glance, and to do the task justice is going to take some time, and I can start by throwing out some random ideas. Firstly I looked for our article on developmental-interaction. That needs to written- there is no REDIRECT from Bank Street approach which there should have been: Montessori and Waldorf School have something. We need the article and then a paragraph Bank_Street_College_of_Education--#Bank Street approach which gives a description of Approach then a comparison with the others. We need to have all that in place before we can (did I just say we?) before we can demonstrate how the school is an embodiment of the principle or how it has deviated. Thats fine for kindergarden stuff- but how does that all apply in yr 5 and yr 8 (it is the transition from free learning to formal JHS that is the hard bit). All this is 1930s stuff- how did the ethos and the curriculum intent change in the 50s, 70s and through Trump. How did Vygotsky change it? Looking at the organisation- how big are the teaching groups? Does the school have walls or is it open plan, what is the internal and external appraisal system. What do we know about the intake- what is the %age of vulnerable children (free school meals), ESL (English as a Second Language) and gifted, how is the curriculum modified for them. I ll have a further look some time tomorrow. - and may be write in full sentences.ClemRutter (talk) 22:05, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@ClemRutter: So sorry for my late response on this. Thank you for your quick reply! Your recs make sense, and I agree they'll take some time. I'll work with the School for Children to flesh out some more copy re: developmental interaction and your other questions about the school and facility. Thanks again. -- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 20:22, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@ClemRutter: Bank Street is game for tackling an article on developmental interaction. Their team is talking with their librarians to start putting together citation sources. This will probably take them some time, but once I have this info, I'd love to run ideas with you. Meanwhile, do you think we have enough basic info and citations on the School for Children to add a stub to the Bank Street College of Education article? Since there isn't any mention of the School for Children at all, it'd be great if we could at least get some basic info on there. Thanks -- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 18:55, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Completion rates for comments made with the Reply tool and full-page wikitext editing. Details and limitations are in this report.
The Reply tool is available at most other Wikipedias.
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There is preliminary data from the Arabic, Czech, and Hungarian Wikipedia on the Reply tool. Junior Contributors who use the Reply tool are more likely to publish the comments that they start writing than those who use full-page wikitext editing.[35]
The Editing and Parsing teams have significantly reduced the number of edits that affect other parts of the page. About 0.3% of edits did this during the last month.[36] Some of the remaining changes are automatic corrections for Special:LintErrors.
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As you seem to be a bit of an article 'rescuer' like me, do you think you could help with Neston High School? It is up for deletion, and i've tried to improve the article, but could do with some back up lol. Bleaney (talk) 14:59, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to say 'You ain't seen nothing yet'- I am a bit slow at the moment- coughing et c, and neighbours phoning to check I am still alive, etc. A bit distracting. But have you checked the building external link- amazing. That and Cheshire On-line we have a fantastic building section in the making. The academics section can be generated from the curriculum intent on their website, with refs from Ofsted. I am collecting on my Home Page in the 'hidden' sections useful template paragraphs on common sections- and common ripostes. Speak soon. --ClemRutter (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Bleaney: I think I am leaving it now. We have the references, and the Ofsted decision to use it in a briefing paper, takes the biscuit- not notable indeed. It is now up to someone wot Spekes betterer Ingerlish (another Merseyside joke) to take it further. ClemRutter (talk) 18:42, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oasis Academy Southbank to Oasis Academy South Bank
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Oasis Academy Silvertown, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Free school.
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Thinking Schools Academy Trust, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Overage.
Orphaned non-free image File:Fair use logo Walbottle Academy.png
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Thanks for uploading File:Fair use logo Walbottle Academy.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Robert Clack School, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Community school.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. PamD20:35, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. I appreciate not wanting to remove items, the issue is given the merger and history, there are a lot of previous centres to list for the former colleges, this includes Beeston, Clarendon, Clifton, Maid Marian Way, West Bridgford (if you go back that far). I'm not sure there's much benefit having them still listed. A small reference to key sites seems enough without adding further less relevant content. I have declared my status with the college on my profile page. My intention isn't to have bias or influence the Wikipedia page from a corporate perspective, I am trying to remain factual and keep things accurate where possible. Happy to revert my edits if you feel this is better and restructure it. Jamesmacwhite (talk) 10:16, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Jamesmacwhite There are people out there who are interested in the historical centre, though they must not dominate the article. Great you are putting in the effort- carry on on writing it your way- I won't touch it, and when you are finished we can re-evalute the best way to list the historic centres. --ClemRutter (talk) 11:01, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm so sorry about my snotty tone of voice in the ES there. I meant what I said about the content in principle but I should have said it much more nicely. Apologies. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 12:58, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered I have such a short term memory now, that the following morning I can't remember the bilge I wrote the night before. I am just delighted that someone else cares. When the first edition comes out of the Guardian- I try to make sure that we have an article on each of their important articles even when I am nodding off at the keyboard. --ClemRutter (talk) 15:22, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Clem, that is very decent of you. I was intending then to say something sympathetic to you about memory issues, but I can't remember what it was ... have a lovely day, cheers, DBaK (talk) 15:31, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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Orphaned non-free image File:Fair use logo Ron Dearing UTC.png
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Hi, just wanted to follow up on my previous message regarfing Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors in various Lancashire cotton mills articles. It does not appear that any of the errors have been addressed. Can you please help resolve them?
Havelock Mills: none of the 4 short refs correspond to a bibliography entry
Also, please install a script to highlight such errors in the future. All you need to do is copy and paste importScript('User:Svick/HarvErrors.js');// Backlink: [[User:Svick/HarvErrors.js]] to your common.js page.
Clem, when you say "You really needed to have spoken to someone experienced in UK Criminal Damage Law before committing such an egregious error of judgement." you need to clarify who your "you" is - I don't think it's the immediately above poster, SteveLoughran, and probably not the previous editor at one level less indentation, LukeSurl, but perhaps the person who deleted the images? Clarification would be useful. See you Sunday perhaps? PamD19:38, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
PamD I missed that one! Edit conflicts and real life intervention meant I was rewriting and rewriting and failing to post in time! Luke has changed the image failing to see that it will/has been reduced in size to comply with Fair Use. More work needed there- sorry out of time- train to catch. See you Sunday.--ClemRutter (talk) 08:08, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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When newcomers had the Reply tool and tried to post on a talk page, they were more successful at posting a comment. (Source)
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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Brownlow Integrated College, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Craigavon.
The content that was submitted in 2007 was a list of eight (then-)current pupils at NCIC, along with the notation that one of them had just passed her driving test.
That's all I've got. There's no hurry. Might even fit in a trip to Rochester myself once lockdown has ended. Have discovered that there is not only a waterwheel but an horse mill at Eastgate House museum. Amazing what you can find when searching on the internet for a book, isn't it? Am trying to get all nine of WCF's books. I think the one of the Foords will be the hardest to track down. Mjroots (talk) 14:47, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A lot has happened at Eastgate House since I was involved in the 1990s. A lot of things have been moved around. This appears to be the safest link. The high street was quite sad last time I walked down there. ClemRutter (talk) 15:22, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for July 4
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited St Benet Biscop Catholic Academy, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Blyth.
Was really good to see you at the meetup this weekend Clem. I hope the arm's doing better, and that you had a less eventful journey home! the wub"?!"20:51, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
--ClemRutter (talk) 22:28, 12 July 2021 (UTC)Well all Monday was in hospital-they will fit a distal plate, when theatre vacant over the next ten days. With plaster cast, typing difficult. It was a good meeting.[reply]
Oh no, awfully sorry to hear it's that serious! But now even more impressed that you still made it and soldiered on through it all afternoon! Take it easy, and I hope they manage to get you all fixed up soon. the wub"?!"23:14, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation link notification for July 21
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Integrated education, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Moira.
Your edit to Integrated education has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. This is your final warning. Further violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy will result in you being blocked from editing. — Diannaa (talk) 18:40, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Diannaa, thanks for the warning- I am stuck in hospital editing with a broken wrist- I ll get a third party to look over the text tomorrow, I am not really in the position to hold a long discussion until I get control of a few more fingers.ClemRutter (talk) 19:10, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So sorry to hear about the wrist, Clem - I heard more about it at this afternoon's online meeting. I do hope you mend completely. Best wishes. PamD16:49, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WereSpielChequersAndrew DavidsonJohnbod: Can you guys,and anyone else have a look at Integrated Education and associated sites Lagan College etc and give an opinion. I was working on the problem, and going to discuss it at the London Meetup when gravity intervened!(Operation sucessful but cast and further treatment ongoing!). Most of what Diannaa says I agree with, she has better tools than me when it comes to copyvios , but now I am in a difficult position. We have one sound reference-a [NI gov report which can be used to replace most of the disputed text.
Diannaa.If you wish to get my a attention it is more effective to message me with: Hi, Clem, can you take alook at......, so we can address the problem together. I welcome your edits on Lagan CollegeI hadn't got round to checking that link. That is a clear copyvio from somewhere and unreferenced- I would have deleted that rather than tagged it. It was a historic posting, but a newbie is unlikely to understand the tag and would just walk away. When that is deleted, we could look a WP:RS. This provides more to the story. I was wondering if we could justify using the image on that site under fair use?. How much further do you wish to get involved with content writing for Integrated Education or other NI Education articles? I can use the talk pages more if I know I have a partner.ClemRutter (talk) 11:04, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You've received multiple other warnings and one block in December 2020 regarding copyright. A request for copyright investigation on your contributions was opened in Janaury 2021. Normally with long-time contributors I use a personalized note for the first warning and templates thereafter. I get it that we're not supposed to template the regulars but when personalized notes don't get the desired result, which is a cessation of violations of our copyright policy, I use the templates.
As I mentioned at WP:CP, the copyright content at Lagan College has been there since 2007, and its removal will pretty much stubbify the article, so I decided to list it there as interested persons will have at least a week to attempt a rewrite.
The image at this site is not suitable for fair use, as it does not have any source or author information, and it is not likely to pass all ten criteria listed at WP:NFCCP.
I can confirm that that Clem was injured on the way to the last London wikimeet but heroically bandaged himself up so that he could see it through. It's a shame that he is now laid up in hospital but it's good that he is getting treatment. I have put integrated education and Lagan College on my watchlist and so will keep an eye on them. For another educational topic which is in need of attention, please see cheat sheet. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:21, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Diannaa Another impersonal template! You told me that you are not interested in editing articles on Northern Ireland but you appear to be interested in stopping me doing the difficult task. As you have encyclopedic knowledge of Copyright matters I would be interested to know where you perceive I have crossed the line. I have spent 8 hours carefully recasting facts in my own words- carefully cross checking the three definite source text with lesser ones- and at the same time ensuring that I don't confuse by using UKEnglish terms with NI- English. As I pointed out two weeks ago, all that is required to affect a change is a comment on a talk page- that is the cooperative model we encourage on Wikipedia. The simplest way forward is for you to restore the text (of which I have no copy) or to c&p it across to a sub-page here with the changes you wish to see. As a active Schools coordinator I prefer to get on with the editing rather than get involved with Wikilawyering. cc:Mike PeelWereSpielChequersAndrew DavidsonJohnbodClemRutter (talk) 20:14, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Source document:
What were the aims and purposes of introducing the national curriculum in the first place and what was it trying to do? Was the top-down subject structure appropriate to all age groups (and key stages)? In particular, how did it suit the primary context and how did it enhance or inhibit coherence at secondary level? What issues were being neglected as a consequence of a purely subject driven agenda and how should they best be addressed in the future? More fundamentally, to what extent was the current curriculum appropriate for meeting the needs of young people facing the challenges of an increasingly diverse UK society, an increasingly competitive global economy and an environment under increasing strain? Should a national curriculum determine the teaching methodologies used by teachers? And perhaps the most difficult question of all: how can changes be disseminated and implemented so they have the intended impact and are sustainable?
...particularly for primary teachers grappling with the theory and detail of up to 10 subjects
Your addition:
What were the aims and purposes of a national curriculum in the first place and what was it trying to do? Was the top-down subject structure appropriate to all age groups (and key stages)? To what extent was the current curriculum appropriate for meeting the needs of young people facing an increasingly diverse society, a changing global economy and increased environmental concerns? Should a national curriculum determine the teaching methodologies used by teachers? How can changes be absorbed by teachers?
...particularly for primary teachers grappling with the theory and detail of up to 10 subjects
Thanks, Diannaa. Now we getting somewhere. We are talking about the contents of a list. In my opinion that is an acceptable paraphrase, and simplification of fact. I think you will find the quoted list is quoted from a primary government source. Firstly, do a visual check-do they even look vaguely similar? Look at them in context- does the shortened ennumerated list do exactly the same job as the longer text in the source. I think not. The list is ennumerated unlike on the source. Each item on the list is a simplification of the source and shorter, so the authors creative effort was not violated- the copyvio concern. Now looking at this very short piece of text, I can see how it falsely triggered an automated tool, looking again I saw a huge number of technical terms have been bolded.
What were the aims and purposes of a national curriculum in the first place and what was it trying to do? Was the top-down subject structure appropriate to all age groups (and key stages)? To what extent was the current curriculum appropriate for meeting the needs of young people facing an increasingly diverse society, a changing global economy and increased environmental concerns? Should a national curriculum determine the teaching methodologies used by teachers? How can changes be absorbed by teachers?... particularly for primary teachers grappling with the theory and detail of up to 10 subjects
I agree that the last line could be dodgy- it passed me as I have heard those same words so many times at union meetings - it didn't register! But that is what we have a talk page for. So have you any further suggestions of the changes that should be made.ClemRutter (talk) 11:43, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Your addition presents the same ideas in the same order, and other than the omitted words, you use almost identical wording. It doesn't matter that the content was presented as a list; it's not a simple alphabetical or chronological list with no creative content. There's enough creative expression in the source document to enjoy copyright protection, and the source paper is marked as copyright. Therefore the edit is a violation of our copyright policy.— Diannaa (talk) 13:30, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I will be offline for a couple of days- and hope to get full use of my wrist next Thursday- sorry if the conversation is a bit disjointed today.
You have made our working definition very clear I am happy to adopt it. You can see the rational I was using. So delete all and get the point over by a full article restructure. We need to make your copyright advice more prominent on the WP:WPSCH/AG page: that can wait until next week. ClemRutter (talk) 23:42, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry to see this happen, Clem. Wikipedia has likely lost a valuable contributor. The best way to tell whether your content creation is too closely paraphrased is when nobody would be able to tell where you got your information from if they do not look at your references. In my opinion, you should offer to use information from multiple sources for every paragraph you write if you want to get unblocked. Scorpions13256 (talk) 23:40, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, seconded. You've been on Wikipedia for a large number of years, Clem, and you know how copyright policy works. If you need the source copied and pasted in order to work on it, just do it in Word, on your own machine. If can't reside on Wikipedia even temporarily. Scorpion's advice sounds great too. Use multiple sources. Interpret them in your own words. Then we can move OK from this and get you back here where you belong. All the best — Amakuru (talk) 23:54, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Clem, I hope your recovery is going well. When writing new content, I usually collect together three or more sources, read what they have to say about the topic I need to cover, and then start preparing the prose without looking at the books until I am ready to check and see if my version is unique enough and okay to add. This can be tricky with authors like Shirer or Beevor who write in a simple direct style like mine! but it can be done. Here is an example edit on the SS article, which we brought to GA in 2016. These sample paragraphs took about an hour and a half to prepare and use primarily three books (Weale, Longerich 2012, and Steinbacher). Note the fact that I provided attribution in my edit summary for the material I copied from a different Wikipedia article.So here's a quick overview of the basics. Sorry if some of this sounds condescending, but you do seem to have some gaps in your knowledge of copyright and how it applies to Wikipedia editing, and I want to be sure to cover everything.
Don't copy from copyright sources at all. Content has to be written in your own words and not include any wording from the source material (other than things like job titles, names of govt programmes, names of schools, etc). One thing I find that works for me is to read over the source material and then pretend I am verbally describing the topic to a friend in my own words. This is a lot easier when you have several sources on which to draw. Stuff should also be presented in a different order where possible. Summarize rather than paraphrase. This will typically result in your version being much shorter than the source document. There's some reading material on this topic at Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing and/or have a look at the material at Paraphrase: Write It in Your Own Words. Check out the links in the menu on the left for some exercises to try. Or study this module aimed at WikiEd students.
When copying within Wikipedia, you need to provide attribution, like I did in the edit summary in the sample edit above. There's more on this topic at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia.
When copying from compatibly licensed sources, like for example many UK Government websites, you also need to provide attribution. Here is an example where I added attribution as part of the citations for some government documents that are released under the Open Government License. We do have some templates such as {{CC-notice}} but I find doing it manually works for me.
Please be aware that we do have a bot that checks for copyright issues on all additions over a certain size. So take your time, be thorough with your editing. And when in doubt, leave it out.— Diannaa (talk) 01:24, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Scorpions13256: I think you are right. As I stated at the top of the page I work in a wikipedia world where we assume good faith and where we don't use hyperbole to pursue a grudge. I create content and train other to do good legal Wikipedia edits and more recently have been working difficult articles on educational subjects in a difficult areas- meta-articles that explain technical concepts. Obviously I adhere in everyway to policy- I will reiterate that here.
If I suspect that an editor thinks I am being unfair I will call in an uninvolved third party to take over and make no further edits on that article and related articles until consensus has been achieved, if I mention an editor on someone elses user page- I ping that editor. That is just basic good manners. I try to read all the policy page/guidelines and essays I quote, not just the lead. For example, Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing. There are two sections of interest:Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing#When is close paraphrasing permitted? and Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing#Existing close paraphrasing#Addressing. Neither of these sections are referred to in the lead and I suspect the search algorithms used by the copyvio searching bots. I get concerned when another editor does not use the Talkpage and and follow the procedures laid out. There is an article with a similar name Close paraphrase that gives an interesting insight into the US law on which this procedure is based that explains concepts such as substantial content. All this is out of my hands now. I will leave it to administrators to sort out, and will be glad to co-operate in any enquiry, they choose to make.--ClemRutter (talk) 07:52, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Amakuru: Thanks for being so welcoming and helpful. I don't choose to write an article out of love of the subject anymore, I write them because they need to be cleaned up or are articles that are vital in order to clean up multiple red-links. We need these articles. Finding the source is often the problem and verifying the notability and reliability of the source - this is often the reason that noone else has written the article.--ClemRutter (talk) 07:52, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Diannaa: Firstly thanks for good wishes for a speedy recovery- everything is going right with the treatment for the multiple fracture though slower than I had hoped. The effect on motivation is a different matter. It decimated my typing speed. Tone is everything on Wikipedia, and I didn't take your advice notes as patronising or personally as I have been thinking for a long time that we need to a beginners notes section on WP:WPSCH/AG to address four nutty problems- notability, valid references and close paraphrasing and copyright in the context of the schools project.
Can you go back in and change your editing example to one on a school based topic rather than a history BLP topic. It very easy to do an edit on a incident that has been discussed multiple times ie multiple opinions- while schools editors are editing facts. Now in England we can find a lot in the TES (before it was put behind a paywall), this will then be taken up by the Guardian suitable modified to become a legitimate close paraphrase and this will then source other reliable journals. Or we are left with one source. I suspect that this is the case in many technical articles.
So, addressing the article we are discussing. I wrote a legitimate [[[Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing#When is close paraphrasing permitted?|close paraphrase]], you disagreed, so the procedure is you need identify whether the close paraphrase is a such a blatant breach of copyright that WP is in legal danger or whether it is a minor incident.
Looking closely at Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing#Addressing, well this is so minor that it is beneath the threshold of concern,(Substantial similarity applies). ([a]It is about the presentation of list of facts, where only the order is perceived to be the same. You then must explain your concern on the Talk:Northern Ireland Curriculum and notify the user by pinging them or using the {{Close paraphrasing}} template. The text does not need to blanked at this stage, you then try to persuade the contributor to fix the problem, or you can fix it yourself. If the contributor reverts you and hasn't responded to the discussion on the talk personally I see this of evidence of 'blatant' and the text should be moved. The aim is always to preserve as much text as possible and of course WP:AGF. The big problem I have with your editing style is that it omits all these essential stages, deletes text and breaks the history log and no-one within the project can verify your POV. From the one example you have left here- the there is one certain fact, two long-standing prolific editors disagree, and we need far more sets of eyes looking at the text and to establish a consensus.ClemRutter (talk) 07:52, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]Notes:
^"The article does not copy any creative words or phrases, similes or metaphors, and makes an effort at paraphrasing in the second sentence. Just two short sentences are close to the sources. For these reasons the close paraphrasing should be acceptable." quoting an analysis from an example in [[Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing]]
Your response to my advice shows that you still do not understand how copyright applies to Wikipedia, and that you believe you were incorrectly blocked. That's a misinterpretation on your part; your addition to Northern Ireland Curriculum was a clear-cut violation of the copyright policy on my opinion, and I think anyone who has spent some time working on copyright cleanup would agree. "Summarize in your own words instead of closely paraphrasing" is the advice at the top of the Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing supplement page. This is difficult to do when you have only one source to draw from. Regardless, your version should not contain any wording at all from the source documents (other than things like job titles, names of govt programmes, names of schools, etc). Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing goes on to say: "Note, however, that closely paraphrasing extensively from a non-free source may be a copyright problem, even if it is difficult to find different means of expression. The more extensively we rely on this exception, the more likely we are to run afoul of compilation protection." If you can't add content while staying within the limits of what our copyright policy allows, you have to leave it out.The aim of copyright clean-up is not to "always to preserve as much text as possible"; it's to have a copyright-compliant version in place at all times. The patrolling admin is not required by policy to post on the talk page or gain consensus for removal of material that is in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy. In fact every Wikipedia page has an edit notice that says "Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted." That's how important this policy is.You say "no-one within the project can verify your POV"; that's not true. Any admin on Wikipedia can look at revision-deleted text and examine my work to see if I have made a mistake. If you would like to get a second opinion, the best people to ask are the ones who are experienced in copyright cleanup. I therefore suggest you ping or talk to one of the people listed at Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to investigate copyright matters if you wish to get a second opinion on your edit at Northern Ireland Curriculum that was the trigger that got you blocked, or on any other example(s) of your choosing. — Diannaa (talk) 11:51, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I thought at first that the list of points in question was a direct quotation of government policy. If that were the case, it would I think be OK to quote it here, as long as it was properly attributed. However, looking at the source, I think the "five questions" are actually phrased using the language of the writers of the paper, and as such, Diannaa is right that it is definitely not OK to list them in even a closely paraphrased form. You could summarise the questions in your own words, but that would need to be in a substantially different format. And really, you need to be identifying at least one further source that covers the same material, and build your "own words" summary from a combination of those multiple sources. — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru, you may already know this, but the copyright status of government works varies from county to country. A few examples: In Canada, government works are copyright and cannot be copied here unaltered. In India, government works are copyright for 50 years from publication date. In Australia and the UK, some but not all are Crown copyright but released under a compatible license, as long as they are properly attributed (here is an example of how to do that). Works of the United States government are public domain; they can be copied as long as attribution is given (typically by using the template {{PD-notice}}). — Diannaa (talk) 13:17, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Royd Mill, Oldham 0007.png
Thank you for uploading File:Royd Mill, Oldham 0007.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.
If you have any comments or questions about this image, please post them here instead of at the pages mentioned in the template. Thanks,— Diannaa (talk) 20:13, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for drawing this to my attention. Of course the images of the same mill but they are not remotely similar. In simple terms the 1983 is a crop showing only the short side of the mill. It fails to illustrate the long side or the range of ancillary buildings to the right which would be the boiler house and the engine house. The 1983 image is of a higher quality but less informative and significantly after 1961 when the mill went electric, and the boilers and the mill engine were no longer used. This image was bot processed in 2017 to lower its resolution. I vaguely recollect the 1983 image being put in the infobox and considering reverting it but concluded that the 83 did illustrate the flavour of the article and the 51 image could safely be moved to a more technical section. We cannot visit it as it has been demolished we know it was built in 1907 and had 3 Tetlow boilers, I can't identify from the image fully, but the placement of the smoking chimney does suggest the ancillary buildings were to do with the engines and boilers- maybe one day a better image will appear! The article was rated as a Start but with hindsight it could be upgraded. ClemRutter (talk) 12:33, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) sorry to be a downer Clem, but I don't think having a second non-free image of the same mill when there's already a free one in the article qualifies as fair use, even if it does show some different features of the building. WP:NFCC #8 says that "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding". The boiler house etc. aren't IMHO important enough to satisfy that clause (and also aren't discussed in the article anyway at present). This article would not be significantly diminished without the second pic. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 13:00, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru, you use the {{tps}} tag- can I say you are most welcome. I would have welcomed your opinion all those years back when I was writing this series of articles. Generally it was the later mills that were most impressive and parts of which survived longest. This will go down to matters of opinion. My interest is not to write a pretty, pretty tourist guide- my interest at the time was to accurately describe the architecture, and workings of these historically important buildings."Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding". To my mind, the 1951 image is a great find as it illustrates most of the aspects of the mill, the later image is not a replacement as it only shows one elevation. There is no indication of boiler placement or engine house which were of course redundant or had been demolished in the later image. To me that is significant but I understand that you may not. Checking for this response I found this 2013 post with a nice series of copyrighted photos.Derelict Mills But there is no image of the boiler house or the long gone engine. Now the exciting bit- I found a further photo of the later mill at Photo of Royd mill from Heron Close. Look down the description page and it appears that Chris is interested in selling a physical print- but licenses the artifact under CC-BY-SA 2.0. There are other copyright statements so I think we need Diannaa (talk·contribs)s opinion on this. Even so the 1951 image does increase readers' understanding, but the case would be harder to prove.ClemRutter (talk) 11:15, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent. I don't think that alters my comment above but it does open a new can of worms. I had uploaded many of Chris's first batch of mills in the 2000 - the image in infobox was one of my uploads! I missed the later ones he added- including the one of three Tetlow boilers. Thanks for infinitely better image- it has been tagged already to say we already did have it. Your comments on Chris's co-ordinates seems apposite.
I haven't actively done any work on mills for years now. It had become a labour of love but I was not getting much interaction with other editors so I broadened out, recently trying to sort out WPschools. But a thought comes to mind- are these images fair use or now permitted under copyright- they are photos by unknown photographers in a book published by a defunct company in or before 1951 (best guess 1950). I uploaded them to commons in 2007/2008 ish and then, when they were rejected, again as fairuse to English WP- 13 years can make a big difference in copyright law. So, is that a valid argument? If so what copyright tag do we need. That would mean we could do a re-scan at a higher resolution- I have the book. ClemRutter (talk) 18:32, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The place to start when looking at copyright terms is the Hirtle chart. For us to make a definitive assessment as to whether or not any particular photo is in the public domain, several questions need definitive answers. Here are some of the things we would need to know:
Has the photo ever been published? If so, in what country? What year was it first published? What year was the photo taken?
Do we know who the author/photographer is? Are they dead or alive? What year did they die?
Most books will have a photo credits section that gives details on who took each photo and when, but determining whether the author is alive or dead will only be possible with well-known people that we can track down online. If you don't know the answers to these questions, you should not upload the photo to the Commons. For more information on copyright laws in various countries, a good starting point is Commons:Copyright rules by territory. If you have any doubt at all about the copyright status of an image, don't upload it.— Diannaa (talk) 19:13, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Manor Mill, Chadderton 0005.png
Thank you for uploading File:Manor Mill, Chadderton 0005.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.
As before, please post any comments here, and I will copy them to the file's talk page for the reviewing administrator's attention. Thanks.— Diannaa (talk) 18:51, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You have found a difficult one here, one I find marginal now. The problem is that we have here a baseline image (1951) that displays the mill in its entirety though low res, Chris Allen has donated many shots of this mill but none of all of the mill. Now we have the same problem with its sister mill Kent Mill, Chadderton. I want an image that shows two elevations but also the rope race and boiler and engine house and chimney- when the mill goes electric then the form changes. The rules: "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding". Significantly is very subjective. With technical eyes- this passes the test- as does Kent, but if you are illustrating a tourist leaflet it wouldn't. I would tweak the text to make the significance more obvious. Can you pass on my comments. ClemRutter (talk) 12:17, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As many of you know I have acted a trainer in the UK, and have written many booklets on the technical side of editing and explained verbal our copyright policies which were particularly important in places like the Wellcome Institute stopping academics c&p-ing their own articles which were published so subject to the publishers copyright. Yes, copyright is subtle- and one can always learn more.Tip: stalk(talk) . I am not an admin: I joined WP to concentrate on content rather than compete and get involved in disputes such as this- I did all of that in my previous life. I can do without the extra Admin tools and all the extra responsibilities. The one tool I could have done with- was the ability to see the text under discussion when it has been removed by a patrolling admin!
I agreed to act as a coordinator on the WP:WPSCHOOLS- I was invited by User:Kudpung who no longer contributes the EN:WP.There is a big question mark there.
Basic Wikpedia stuff: pillars and WP:AGF. We work through cooperation not conflict- tone is everything. Try to fix first. Hyperbola in discussions does't help.
Basic editing protocols and using the Talk Page before you escalate an incident. Please read the talk pages of the articles under discussion. There are other protocols- but following the links and you quickly enter confrontational language.
WP:Close paraphrasing#When is close paraphrasing permitted? This appears to be highly subjective at the moment and I think we have concensus on Liberal Arts topics- Histories, Biographies, some aspects of geography but when we approach technical articles on educational policy, curricular theory there is a lot of work to do. Trite answers and slogans lead to bad articles. IMHO In an article that is being actively edited {{close paraphrase}} is a better template as it draws other editors into the discussion and leads to better articles- and is less time-consuming than an appearance on WP:ANI.
I have copied the post to the discussion at WP:AN. Sorry for the delay – I was at work.Your post contains errors and misinformation:
You were notified of the discussion at WP:AN about an hour and a half after the initial post (not two days later as you suggest).
Copyright policy is not decided at the wikiproject level; it's a site-wide policy that is detailed at Wikipedia:Copyrights. The same level of compliance is mandatory for all editors, regardless of the topic the article. Decisions made at the wikiproject level cannot trump the copyright policy. Details provided in an essay or guideline do not trump the copyright policy.
The patrolling admin is not required to fix copyright violations. The patrolling admin is not required to discuss on the talk page before removing violations.
None of the editors and administrators who commented at AN were of the opinion that you were incorrectly blocked. You characterise our interaction as a "dispute", which it is not. It is a Wikipedia administrator blocking a person who has violated our copyright policy. The block was placed to eliminate the chance of further damage to the encyclopedia. Unless and until you understand that absolutely no copying from your sources is allowed (subject to certain exemptions, of which I have informed you already more than once) you will not be able to resume editing. — Diannaa (talk) 21:07, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Offer
Hi Clem. I don't know whether you remember me, but we were both on a wiki-meetup on Zoom last summer. We talked about a few different things, mostly about photographs if I remember correctly. I remember being really impressed with your enthusiasm for us having articles (and images to illustrate them) about state schools, rather than just independent schools with posh buildings and long lists of notable students. You inspired me, truly.
I'm here because I am certain of your enthusiasm for the project, and of your enormous capacity to make it better; I don't want this block to be the end of the road for such a positive presence. I want to try to help you understand the copyright policy, if I can. I can't pretend to understand it nearly as well as Diannaa does, and I'm wary of offering to teach someone like yourself to suck eggs and thereby appear presumptuous, but I thought it was better to do something than to watch from the sidelines.
What Diannaa says above is correct. The example above under the 'August 2021' header is indefensible - it's identical to the source, with a few of the words removed. That's not an acceptable paraphrase, it's a blatant copyright violation, of the sort that will always be removed on-sight. You have been suggesting that people ought to flag things like that, and discuss it with the author to see whether it can be edited and improved; have you considered the additional burden that would impose on the people who work on copyvio patrolling? There is a backlog of tens of thousands of cases that need investigating, and the backlog is always growing. To say that investigators need to stop and discuss obvious violations one-by-one before doing anything about them is effectively saying that we just stop caring about violations - given how long it would take, and how few people we have who are interested in dealing with copyvios, it would be entirely impossible to even hope to stay on top things.
The right approach to take when writing articles is to make your best efforts not to use any of the text from any of the sources - write it all in your own words. Sometimes, you find it impossible to be completely original - there are only so many ways of saying that a building was built in a particular year, or in such-and-such a style. So, you might use a particular phrase that appears in the sources, but you limit that to as few words as you can get away with, and ensure that the sentence structure around it is different. You can't get away with 'paraphrasing' whole paragraphs by removing some clauses and leaving everything else intact.
I'd really like to help you get back to editing, if I can. The first step to that, in my view, is for you to accept what Diannaa (who is hands-down our most highly-respected expert when it comes to copyright issues) has been telling you. Please consider what she has said, and whether you can reconcile yourself to it. If you have questions/comments/thoughts, I'd be happy to thrash them out with you, and see whether we can get to a position where you this block can be lifted. Best wishes, truly. GirthSummit (blether)22:27, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Clem. Likewise; you and I first met at the 2017 International Women's Day Editathon at Newnham College, Cambridge, where I saw your keenness to help and steer new and older editors. I was also highly surprised to see this block and your rather unusual responses for what some newcomers often regard as a small issue, but which I thought every experienced Wikimedians such as yourself knew only too well. I know us older blokes can get stuck in our ways and have our blind spots in life, so if there's anything I can do to offer feedback, just reach out, or email me. I'm afraid I completely see and agree with Diannaa's points and, whilst it adds a little time to rewrite content in one's own words to avoid close paraphrasing, it really is an essential skill to have. Copy vios and close paraphrasing are never disputes - they're simply breaches of core policy, wherever they occur. So, once you recover from your real life injuries, if there's anything I can do to help, feel free to ask for assistance. At a practical level, simply supply a url to a few paragraphs you're stuck on, and I'd be happy to offer alternative suggestions to help you get back on track with content creation that doesn't breach those policies. This really is such an important area to get to grips with, and such a small and easy thing to resolve, that I'm only too happy to offer any support I can. Kind regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 11:03, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Clem. What have you done to get yourself in this mess? Your coordship is going to be sorely missed at WP:SCHOOLS; it's down now to just two largely inactive coords and no one for the UK. Although I retired from Wikipedia early last years and certainly don't have any designs on doing any divaesque comebacks to en.Wiki if I can help it, I feel kinda obliged to come back and do something about schools and I sincerely hope you'll be able to get back to editing soon. Unfortunately the new trend on WP is to thrash about with blocks and desysopings of the most valuable contributors. In the meantime I've removed your name from the coords template because it didn't look too good struck through as 'blocked'. I fell nearly 2 years ago and had multiple fractures to the old and fragile carpus and radius of my left wrist. It will never heal again properly but I'm back to playing the piano - gently. Best, Chris. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:22, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(Kudpung, FWIW, I would delighted to see you return to active editing, even if you decided to restrict yourself to WP:SCHOOLS. You are missed, as is Clem. Best wishes (in the actual 'I really mean that' sort of sense, rather than the 'I can't think of another way of signing off a post' sort of sense. GirthSummit (blether)00:04, 30 August 2021 (UTC))[reply]
No chance of that, I'm afraid, Girth. I'm firmly in my twilight years and I have no time for the pompous, power hungry teenagers and 'average age' Wikipedians who are hell bent on scaling the greasy pole to the dizzy heights of adminship or arbcom after having been around for only 5 minutes and don't know how to write a decent article. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:39, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
France report: Wikimedian in residence; Some projects for this autumn
India report: Second proofread competition starts on Bengali Wikisource in collaboration with the British Library
Italy report: Summer school in July and two new WiR in August
Netherlands report: 50 cool new things you can now do with KB’s collection highlights, and New old photographs of Algeria, Mali and Morocco by Angeline van Achterberg
Orphaned non-free image File:Fair use logo Harris Academy Ockendon.png
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Thanks for uploading File:Fair use logo Harris Academy Ockendon.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
Thanks for uploading File:Regent Mill, Failsworth 0007.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
Thanks for uploading File:Trencherfield Mill, Wigan 0019.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
Wikipedia: The project where one worked cooperatively to build an encyclopedia, trusted your colleagues and assumed good faith is dead. I joined this project 18 years ago, to add content and have no interest in internal squabbles; we made mistakes and on seeing one would correct it or if it was contentious we would discuss it on the talk page. The word was always we. We did our upmost to respect another editors work and improve the text they had added. We became more skilled and more precise in our sourcing and referencing. We became adept at interpreting copyright issues- and what cannot be copyrighted.
It was an enjoyable activity for all ages: there were tasks that everyone could do whether it was documenting popular culture, adding photographs, building a great reference book that reflected current research, formatting lists, adding svgs or simply building a gazeteer. It is no longer so.
Some of us took it a lot further, acting as trainers for organisations like the Wellcome Institute, in universities and to develop Wikipedia projects such as Women in Red. We explained basic editing, referencing and Wikipedia policies. We tailored our work to our audience realising that some of our students were experts in their fields.
Some of us helped coordinate projects, doing a lot of correcting and helping other users prove notability, generally cleaning up articles, rewriting them, searching for sources and checking copyright- where there was a problem we would attempt to fix it, or comment it out and discuss it on the talkpage. In fact doing the sort of work described in Addressing close paraphrasing There was a lot of destubbing and a lot of use of the talkpage. Coordinators end up trying to save the most difficult articles and writing articles to fill holes Wikipedia content. This could be challenging but with it came the buzz of helping others and cooperating with skilled colleagues. Wikipedia has changed and has become an exercise in ‘office’ politics. I left that and generally managing people and pupils when I retired.
Wikipedia in its present state is not sustainable, I will be doing no further editting until the culture is reverted. I will be around at social events and available to help again when a serious attempt has been made to reestablish Wikipedia values. I can be contacted through email and social media.
I will no longer be contributing 6000 posts a year. I will no longer be investigating whether our text preceded other published sources. I will no longer be evaluating whether a phrase is a technical term within that subject area thus exempt from copyright protection, or whether an author has taken an established list of copyright exempt terms and close paraphrased them adding creative content that must be removed, and how much in order to clear copyright.
I have been asked by friends and family if it is possible to stop completely when Wikipedia has been a major part of your life for over 15 years. I have tried it for a month now and the answer is surprising easy- yes, but the Wikipedia I knew no longer exists. It is more a case the Wikipedia has walked away from us. ClemRutter (talk) 11:15, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry
Clem, we met about six years ago at Clitheroe Castle, a GLAM event I believe you organised (and half of the WP events I've ever attended). It was around the time Eric Corbett was caught in the blackhole of run-ins with the wikilaw that ended as it did. I remember telling someone that his experience had taught me to never be an admin, and now your name will be added for the next person I say that too. It is horrible to loose an editor of your vast experience,[40] and I've been trying for days to think of some way to stop this. I just don't have the words. I don't have sufficient knowledge of the copyright polices to know who was right. I'm very much still at the 'make it mean what the source says, not say what the source says' level, which would hardly be useful advice for you. While it seems outrageous to indef an editor in good standing, apparently for misunderstanding policy, the copyright policies are of such core importance. Our seemingly most powerful admin, armed with the 'protecting the encyclopedia' grenade, is very much not to be tangled with. This obviously could have been handled better but it seems that everyone is just too busy these days. I very much hope that you will able to return in the future and I will certainly miss seeing you around here. All the best with whatever you choose to do in the meantime and thank you so, so much for your vast efforts for the project.TiBchat18:52, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned non-free image File:Fair use logo Harrop Fold School.png
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Thanks for uploading File:Fair use logo Harrop Fold School.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
I think you need to start giving some sources for some of your POVs which may, in this case, be correct. I note also you removed a sub-page here citing Copyright worries- but Copyright does not apply outside main space unless you have a source to say other wise. Indeed it in not applicable. We also have a rule about not disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point.
Subtly hidden in the post, that you think you have a right to remove,- was a reminder that Copyright only applies to creative content not facts, copyright does not apply to technical terms or situations where is no other reasonable way to write a piece of prose. If there is any dispute you take it to the talk page and discuss it or best still you execute a fix. That is the way we work on wikipedia. Round London we meet up face to face, and more recently in Zoom calls to help each other out- lookup London meetup and join us so we can cooperate.
Go back to the file I mentioned on Duke Street Mill- to me the copyright breach needs reporting- if you live in the town, the site is directly opposite the library, so easy to investigate. I don't but I also have been blocked. Part of the problem with coordination of mills is often the standard recent source has cut and pasted details from pre 1926 text which is not copyrightable! The text of the simplistic interpretation of copyright you sent is good as a handout for newbies but you do have to explain to them that in many cases it will not apply.
Moving over to schools, particularly in Northern Ireland a lot of them are stubs, and you need to start with a word accurate description- that will have to be checked with the school website and their prospectus- if the two are the same those are the words you must use. Facts-technical terms- no alternative description. If you are destubbing, you then need to add a range of sections. There may been a rune saying all later edits must be blanked but first you need to explain your intention in detail on the talk page as you must not disrupt WP to prove a point. So how do you proceed in cases like this. Ctrl X the offending text- Replace text with XXXX is a school in County XXXX and save. Go to talk page, new section ==Disputed text== and Ctrl -V and save. There is now no copyvio on the article- check each of the other paragraphs- check they are correctly sourced and save. Get another editor to help you and check out the disputed text and correct it. Save. Now back to the main space and replace your holding sentence.
Not so subtly hidden in that post were blatant personal attacks; that's the kind of thing that leads to revocation of talk page access. All the best! ——Serial17:12, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for getting involved. You are right it could have been seen that way. I did check up and apart from here I do not have talk page access. Please keep watching. ClemRutter (talk) 19:26, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Clem, I need to clear up some of the incorrect information in your post: All Wikipedia pages are subject to the same copyright policy. Each and every page whether main space, Wikipedia space, talk pages, sandboxes and drafts, all have the same edit notice: "Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted." Our copyright policy does not require the patrolling admin to use the talk page or discuss. Copyright violations are subject to immediate removal and revision deletion.If you notice image copyright violations, the vast majority of our images are on the Commons, and you are not blocked on that wiki, so please feel free to report the issue there. — Diannaa (talk) 17:25, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the sources you using- I note it says" Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted." not whole pages that contain a copyvio. I know that makes for more work for a patrolling admin, but it more informative and save everyones' time in the long run. I mentioned a specific image that is tagged do not upload onto commons (one of the rare ones) I can't see how talking about it on commons would help, if I had sufficient access I would have reported it on your talk page as you are the copyright expert for things like this. I think the conversation will continue because WP does need to discuss the role of the patrolling admin when interacting with a project coordinator. ClemRutter (talk) 19:44, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The removal of the post seems appropriate - Clem, you can't make posts like that, it's both a personal attack and an attempt at block evasion. You need to either solve the problem here so you can edit the articles again, or address these issues on Commons. You're working yourself more into a hole here, please take a step back and better engage with Diannaa and all. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:47, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Mike, all suggestions gratefully received. I am not aware of any issues on Commons where I continue to upload images. The issues over there are technical at PHP level but are being worked on. I think I have described the copyright issues I have here with non-copyrightable facts and technical terms that are flagged up as copyvios- issues that as a project coordinator I was already attempting to address. I can't give specific examples as the text has been zapped. Above I have explained the en only image to Diannaa and await a response ClemRutter (talk) 20:04, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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I am not in a position to respond in person- as I am currently blocked at English wp. Wikipedia is about incremental improvements- it is good news that an alternative has been found. ClemRutter (talk) 15:21, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Hi Clem. Thanks for your email. I think that article is now sorted. I was surprised to see that you have been blocked indefinitely since last August. I thought I had not seen you around for a while. Whatever you've done, I'd be very surprised if you really deserved an indef block. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:25, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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I have been blocked from editing for some time though I am still very active in the London Wikimedia group. This article is a valid stub with 2 wiki links and a valid . The buildings in their time were influential, though the Mirror building was too small scale to survive on that location beyond 1963. The practice illustrates the rebulding efforts made after the Second World War. Reference material does exist on line but to bring this up to an FA would take physically search the RIBA archives, the Major of Londons archives and probably the Museum of London, but I would start at the British Library in St Pancras. Wikipedia becomes less and less useful if is principal aim is to remove useful stubs with out understanding what they can become.ClemRutter (talk) 14:23, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I worked in the Daily Mirror building for a while. The site is quite close to Penderel's Oak so we should make a tour of the area at a future London Wikimeet. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:04, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think we are down to physical sources here, the topic I feel is interesting enough to explore. Along with that the conversation moves onto brick and clay used in reconstruction and availability, and their limiting properties, in the forties and fifties. Your decisions- I can only suggest. ClemRutter (talk) 12:09, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Done Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:06, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Template:Listed building England has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. PC78 (talk) 17:50, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
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Template:Infobox UK school has been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox school. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Steven (Editor) (talk) 20:13, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Media related to Astronomical instruments at Wikimedia Commons --ClemRutter (talk) 14:58, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Done --ClemRutter (talk) 11:49, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
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Some of the content you added to Multi-academy trust has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 16:43, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
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}addressed.--ClemRutter (talk) 17:21, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
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