Jump to content

Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 86

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< Help talk:Citation Style 1

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by ClueBot III (talk | contribs) at 09:40, 26 October 2022 (Archiving 3 discussions from Help talk:Citation Style 1. (BOT)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Archive 80 ← Archive 84 Archive 85 Archive 86 Archive 87 Archive 88 → Archive 90

place, when publication-place is redundant with work

Consider this citation:

Adam, Karla (15 September 2022). "The British love queues. The queen's death brought one for the ages". The Washington Post. Retrieved 15 September 2022.

The cited article bears a dateline of "London". Per the documentation of {{Cite news}}, it would be appropriate to set |place=London (or |location=London). However, a dilemma is then reached (ignore CS1 maint tags; they're from the styling added for emphasis):

  • If |publication-place= is unset, |place= is interpreted to refer to that rather than to the dateline, and the template incorrectly says that The Washington Post is based in London:
    Adam, Karla (15 September 2022). "The British love queues. The queen's death brought one for the ages". The Washington Post. London.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: location (link)
  • If we set |publication-place=Washington, D.C., we violate the rule omit when the name of the work includes the publication place.
    Adam, Karla (15 September 2022). Written at London. "The British love queues. The queen's death brought one for the ages". The Washington Post. Washington, D.C..{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: location (link)

Is there some way to indicate, like, |publication-place=redundant or something? It seems strange to have a system where I can indicate dateline for, say, The Wall Street Journal or The Mercury News, but not for The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, The New York Times, etc. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 18:54, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I would omit it. It does not help the reader to verify the claim in the article in any way to know that the writer of the article was in London. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:36, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
Location is where the publication was published, not where a particular item was written - such details don't help to locate the reference and merely confuse the reader.Nigel Ish (talk) 19:38, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
The current documentation in Template:Citation Style documentation/publisher says place: For news stories with a dateline, the location where the story was written. Should that be removed? Or some note added that would limit it to some subset of cases where it's particularly relevant? -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 19:44, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
We've discussed this before:
A quick scan of those discussions suggests that we should, at the least, make all of |publication-place=, |place=, and |location= into exact-equivalent aliases. Doing that gets rid of the 'written at' dateline stuff because as noted above, where a source was written does nothing to help a reader locate the source. Am I mistaken in my reading of those discussions?
Currently, Category:CS1 location test has 1,313 articles. I can dust off my awb script and let it remove articles where |publication-place= has the same value as |location= or |place=.
—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:52, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
That's how I'd read the consensus across those three discussions, yeah. And I tend to agree. I suppose I could see some scenario, less in the context of news articles and more in the context of letters or poems, where location of writing could have some disambiguatory function? But there will almost always be other ways to disambiguate that. And if we were to have a parameter for that, better a specific |written-at=, with no ambiguity in naming. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 20:04, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Fails to throw a DOI error

Holm, Cyril; Lind, Hans; Vogel, Jonas Anund (December 2019). "Incentivising innovation in the construction sector: the role of consulting contracts". Construction Economics and Building. 19 (2): 181–196. doi:10.0.20.10/AJCEB.v19i2.6613. Retrieved 19 September 2022. {{cite journal}}: Check |doi= value (help)

Should throw an error. 10.0.20.10 is not a valid prefix. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:59, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

DOI registrants can be any sequence of digits and dots (see https://www.doi.org/doi_handbook/2_Numbering.html#2.2.2). cs1|2 looks for patterns of digits and dots that aren't yet in use. The live module already catches one and two digit registrants without subcode:
  • {{cite journal |journal=Journal |title=Title |doi=10.12/somat}}
    "Title". Journal. doi:10.12/somat. {{cite journal}}: Check |doi= value (help) – two-digit registrant without subcode
  • {{cite journal |journal=Journal |title=Title |doi=10.1/somat}}
    "Title". Journal. doi:10.1/somat. {{cite journal}}: Check |doi= value (help) – one-digit registrant without subcode
I have added a test for (presumably) unused one and two digit registrants with subcode:
  • {{cite journal/new |journal=Journal |title=Title |doi=10.12.1/somat}}
    "Title". Journal. doi:10.12.1/somat. {{cite journal}}: Check |doi= value (help) – two-digit registrant with subcode
  • {{cite journal/new |journal=Journal |title=Title |doi=10.1.1/somat}}
    "Title". Journal. doi:10.1.1/somat. {{cite journal}}: Check |doi= value (help) – one-digit registrant with cubcode
—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:20, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
That they can be is not very important relative to the fact that they aren't. When we start having DOIs that don't start with 10.#### or 10.##### then we can remove that check. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:39, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Distinguishing between minor and major works in titles

I’m wondering whether it’s possible to detect (from within CS1/Utilities/wrap_style, or elsewhere) which field a particular title is coming from. Thanks!⸺al12si (talk) 19:32, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) 2× – answer to a post that no longer exists...
As far as I know, that issue has never been discussed here which is why we only have presentation['italic-title'] and presentation['quoted-title'] in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration. It would seem to me that you also want something like presentation['alt-major-title'] = '《$1》' and presentation['alt-minor-title'] = '〈$1〉' using whatever are the appropriate characters (these are not guillemets but were found at https://unicode.org/charts/nameslist/n_3000.html). How to decide when to switch will require some thought. If we add these, for consistency, we should probably rename ['italic-title'] and ['quoted-title'] to ['major-title'] and ['minor-title'].
I don't know what you mean by Other titles are formatted italic. Does that mean that both major and minor titles are italicized? Does 'roman' really apply to cjk or is that just a loose equivalent to upright (not italicized)?
—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:07, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
To me, the section title and the OP content seem a bit incongruous? Pls elaborate. 50.74.165.98 (talk) 20:20, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Sorry everyone. I found it out. The key parameter is what I need.—al12si (talk) 20:36, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Bump PMC limit

This shouldn't throw an error. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:05, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

CS1 flagging seemingly fine url as valid

I recently came across the article /e/ (operating system), which seems to be producing a lot of CS1 errors: URL. However, after looking over some of the URLs being flagged as invalid, I couldn't find any issues with them (E.g. https://doc.e.foundation/how-tos/upgrade-ecloud-storage), so I'm not sure why these are being flagged. URLs dont support ATAW markup, so I can't supress the errors either should they be a false flag. Is there something wrong with this url I'm not noticing, or is this simply a misflag? Aidan9382 (talk) 20:06, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Example

Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:10, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

It seems to not like .e. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:12, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
The error urls seem to be missing a valid recognizable suffix, such .org. 50.74.165.98 (talk) 20:17, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Aside for country-code TLDs (ccTLDs), single-letter second-level domain names are relatively rare. Until now, cs1|2 has only supported four non-ccTLDs that have single-letter second-level domain names: cash, company, org, and today. I have added foundation:
{{Cite web/new |date=2022-05-29 |title=Service Announcement : 26 May |url=https://community.e.foundation/t/service-announcement-26-may/41252?page=2 |website=/e/OS Foundation & Community}}
"Service Announcement : 26 May". /e/OS Foundation & Community. 2022-05-29.
I have also moved the list of these TLDs from the main module to ~/Configuration.
—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:57, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Considering the more than 1500 active TLDs, with more in the pipeline, this issue will reappear. The .foundation TLD is lightly used (no more than ~30k registrations) even though it has an almost 10-year history. But this may change in the future. 64.18.11.69 (talk) 23:16, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_86&oldid=1118319150"