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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Joseph A. Spadaro (talk | contribs) at 04:09, 29 July 2022 (→Discussion about bodega clerk story from WP:GENREL sources). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by MeegsC (talk) 15:18, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Moved to mainspace by Muboshgu (talk). Self-nominated at 19:45, 2 July 2021 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation

QPQ: No - QPQ not yet completed.
Overall: Good to go pending QPQ completion. Hook itself is not directly cited above but facts are cited in the article itself, so no problems from me there. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 18:08, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@PCN02WPS: QPQ provided. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:27, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
all good! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 17:56, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Career section

I added the following to the Career section:

He also said he would reduce the sentence for armed robbery from 25 years to 364 days.[1][2][3]

User:Muboshgu deleted it, with the comment, "that is not what those non-reliable sources"

I am interested in what others here think of this.

Baxter329 (talk) 01:50, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Muboshgu is correct. Please see WP:RSP. EvergreenFir (talk) 01:53, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
My comment was "that is not what those non-reliable sources say". He also said he would reduce the sentence for armed robbery from 25 years to 364 days is what you wrote. That's not at all the case, though. That's taken from the WP:FOXNEWS piece, where they directly quote a Republican member of Congress making a political attack. The WP:NYPOST source says that they will seek charges of petty larceny instead where appropriate. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:01, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Rep. Malliotakis warns NYC will trend toward 'anarchy' of Portland, Chicago under new Manhattan DA, Fox News, January 6, 2022
  2. ^ Manhattan DA to stop seeking prison sentences in slew of criminal cases, New York Post, January 4, 2022
  3. ^ NYC's new district attorney wants to make it impossible to get tough on crime, Washington Examiner, January 5, 2022

Controversy section

Where is that section, in this article ... ? Come on ... Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:50, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph A. Spadaro, WP:CONTROVERSYSECTIONs compromise WP:NPOV. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:12, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, good one. And I was born yesterday. Are you Bragg, himself? LOL. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note - See related Talk Page section, below. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:39, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Controversies

I added a new section today. A copy is below. Some editor deleted it as "not news". (LOL.) So, I am on the Talk Page. This has nothing to do with "not news". It's a notable controversey -- among many others -- reported by RS's. Thanks.

This is the text I added (with an RS of The New York Times). There are many other RS's.

On July 7, 2022, Jose Alba, a bodega clerk was attacked and stabbed by two customers, who were armed with a large knife. The dispute was over a bag of potato chips. The perpetrators were younger and larger than Alba, and outnumbered him. In self-defense, the Alba stabbed and killed one of the perpetrators. Alvinn Bragg, in his prosecutorial discretion, decided to charge Alba, the robbery victim, with murder. Bragg also requested Alba's bail at $250,000.[1]

Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:39, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is a story in the news, and that leads us to WP:NOTNEWS. Also, you created a WP:CONTROVERSYSECTION, which impairs neutrality. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:13, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, anything that appears in the news must be excluded from Wikipedia, due to the "Not News" policy? Is that your interpretation? If so, 99% of Wikipedia will need to be deleted. Where should we start with that huge project? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:18, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Adams Shows Support for Man Charged in Bodega Killing That Caused Outcry, The New York Times

Discussion about bodega clerk story from WP:GENREL sources

  • "Adams Shows Support for Man Charged in Bodega Killing That Caused Outcry". The New York Times.
  • "When Public Disorder Reigns". The Wall Street Journal.
  • "Manhattan bodega worker charged with murder wanted to avoid confrontation, video shows". Fox News.
  • "Video: Harlem bodega clerk accused of fatal stabbing was defending himself from unruly customer, store owner says". New York Daily News.

Also, this is not a routine event, this is not original reporting, Alvin Bragg is a public figure, and this is not celebrity gossip, so I'm at a loss how WP:NOTNEWS applies to this content. Samboy (talk) 01:52, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am wary of WP:RECENTISM, and the section issue. I can see that this is enough to include. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:39, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, what happened? When I posted it, you said that it violated all sorts of Wikipedia rules ... remember? It violated NOT NEWS ... and NPOV ... and BLP ... and many others. And you deleted the info, pronto. Not once, but twice. So, what changed? You were "wary" and then became "unwary"? Is that the litmus test for including info into a Wiki article? And you're an Admin? You never mentioned that the info was "unorganized" ... rather, you cited that I violated a myriad of Wikipedia rules. Your edit summary, however, states that you "organized the info better" (than I did). Once again ... And you're an Admin? Can't make this stuff up. Not to mention ... you pulled similar shenanigans several months back ... in my previous posts on this Talk Page. (Above, back in January, I believe.) Asserting that Bragg has no controversies ... and, even if he did, they certainly shouldn't be in his Wiki article, of all things. LOL. News flash: water is wet; the sky is blue. And ... ummmm ...... Bragg is doing an "excellent job" as a DA. Yes? Controversy-free and all! Wheeeeeeeee! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:48, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Look, there’s a consensus building process here. Especially with contentious statements for someone who is still alive. That in mind, the way we build consensus on the Wikipedia is to look for sources, to list sources, to determine whether the sources are good enough to consider listing the content in a Wikipedia article. Wikipedia is not a battleground. Now, I personally think a single one or two sentence paragraph mentioning the charges and the controversy caused by them belongs on the Wikipedia, but I don’t think they deserve their own section, and I think we should be neutral, especially when some of the sources are opinion pieces, as per WP:RSOPINION. For example, the opinion pieces claim Mr. Bragg is soft on crime, but the pieces do not provide any evidence to back up that claim, so we can’t include that particular claim in the Wikipedia article. Also worth reading: WP:NAM Samboy (talk) 04:06, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Samboy - Thanks. In essence, I agree with 99% of what you said. However, you really didn't address any of my (valid) substantive claims from my post above. In a nut-shell ... I did write only one or two sentences ... I cited an RS as The New York Times ... the material was immediately deleted ... not once, but twice ... and I was told (by an Admin) that I am violating all sorts of Wikipedia rules. Hence, I came to this Talk Page. (And indicated that there are plenty of other RS's available.) So, seems like I did what indeed was expected of me, in such a situation. In my opinion, the other editor -- an Admin, no less -- did not address the situation appropriately. Not only this week ... but also 5-6 months ago, when a similar issue arose. It left me with the impression -- rightly or wrongly -- that he/she was white-washing all of the (many) controversies of Bragg out of the article ... while hiding behind ambiguous policies that are open to varied interpretations. Quite frankly, in my opinion, Bragg's middle name is "controversy" ... and it is not right to white-wash those -- all of those! -- out of his article. This most recent was quite a doozy ... even for him. Charging the victim (who engaged in self-defense) with murder. And declining to prosecute the knife-wielding girlfriend with any charges, claiming that she was employing self-defense(!). Sorry, none of this passes the "smell test". And I am certainly not the only person "out here" who feels this way. And, yeah ... I certainly did notice the "common factor" that Bragg employs when he decides/declines to press charges. Rather obvious, I'd say. Like I said in an above post, I most certainly was not born yesterday. It's rather disgusting. On the other hand, the voters of New York ... ummmm ... get what they voted for. So, there is a sort of perverse (and delicious) poetic justice in that. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:40, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
(Redacted) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:667F:FF63:F889:3F49:2DCD:A56B (talk) 18:33, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I agree. You could see above what a "fight" I had to win, just to list any "controversies" at all in this article. I was told that that would be a violation of policy. LOL. Unreal. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:21, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Joseph A. Spadaro, I'm talking about following BLP and you're saying you agree with a BLP violating comment like that one. That's unreal. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:33, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, then, we have a slight problem here. The problem being that I am literate (i.e., I know how to read). When I asked about introducing "controversies" into this article ... your exact words were: WP:CONTROVERSYSECTIONs compromise WP:NPOV. (January 30, 2022) ... and ... This is a story in the news, and that leads us to WP:NOTNEWS. Also, you created a WP:CONTROVERSYSECTION, which impairs neutrality. (July 9, 2022). (See above, on this Talk Page.) Not to mention ... when I added in a (single) controversy, you immediately removed it ... not once, but twice. Any of this ring a bell? The guy has multiple controversies up the wazoo ... and has had them pretty much since Day 1 in office. And some people want to "white wash" that ... and offer lots of word salads ... to justify that these myriad controversies should be excluded from the article. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:54, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You don't have to quote me verbatim, and you can try to be WP:CIVIL. BLPs are written "small-c" conservatively, especially around "controversies". This is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper, so we use haste and try to get it right the first time. You've been around here long enough that I'd think you should know this. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:04, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, you side-stepped every single (valid) point that I made ... and addressed none of them. But .... errrr ..... thanks? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:09, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

More controversies

Still more controversies from our dear friend Bragg: [1]. Bragg seems very professional. Yes? I wonder what the "common factor" is ... when he decides to -- or not to -- charge a crime. Hmmmmmm ... what a mystery. I wonder if there is some common element? I'll have to give it some thought. On the plus side ... New York ... you voted for him ... so the buck stops with you voters. Any buyer's remorse? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:26, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph A. Spadaro, see WP:DAILYMAIL. That tabloid is deprecated. Also try to hide your WP:POV just a little bit and be WP:CIVIL. You're pushing it. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:35, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Who cares if Daily Mail is deprecated? This story will --- and probably already has --- shown up in other sources. So, what's your point? It's just one more controversy surrounding our good friend Bragg. Which, I am sure, someone will find some policy or another to insure that that controversy does not creep into this article. I'd disagree that I am the one violating POV. And, I guess, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. That is to say, other editor(s) -- not I -- agreed and decided to list a few controversies in this article. (And you have not -- yet -- removed them.) I am "pushing" "WP:CIVIL" ... ? LOL. That's rich. So, to recap ... whether or not Daily Mail is deprecated is immaterial. The story will -- and probably has -- spilled into other RS's. Whic I will eventually go look for, when I have time. And -- at that point -- I am sure that the goal post will move ... and for some reason or another, this new controversy will be "adjudicated" as being "improper" for inclusion int his article. Via a jumble of acronyms, purported policies (which are usually just essays), and many other forms of word salads. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:06, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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