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This is the current revision of this page, as edited by Spartaz (talk | contribs) at 09:06, 7 March 2021 (→KBQS-LP: Closed as delete (XFDcloser)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this version.

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 09:06, 7 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

KBQS-LP

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KBQS-LP (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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I rarely send radio station articles to AfD, but I'm so dearly lost with this one I don't know where to start.

First, some facts:

  • There is a KBQS-LP! It's licensed to Sacramento, not San Francisco, and it should be on 98.9. The technical parameters in the infobox are not real.
  • It is related to San Francisco, in that the owner has tried to move it there. This real FCC exhibit reads like a rambling manifesto. Something about coverage issues.
  • I cannot find information on what KBQS-LP has actually aired or indeed any coverage of this low-power station that passes the general notability guideline.

If it didn't have to do with a licensed radio station and documents that are real FCC exhibits but also not coherent, I might have tagged it for speedy deletion. As it is, even this topic editor is unsure what to make of it, but she is confident that the station fails the GNG and that this article is verging on patent nonsense. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 08:11, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 08:11, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 08:11, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Sammi Brie. This is some Pepe Silvia wall-level crazy. –Fredddie™ 08:49, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: As per Sammi Brie. Incomplete articleTheDreamBoat (talk) 09:47, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: @TheDreamBoat: So what if it's dinky? Complete it, don't delete it. Americanfreedom (talk) 14:48, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: This does not exactly rise to the level of a hoax, but it certainly is not about an actually licensed radio station. The owner of the "station" in this article applied with the FCC for an FM Booster in San Francisco, but this application was dismissed, as were all of their other filings with the FCC. In this bizarre document, the person who applied for the booster in San Francisco said that they filed charges against the owner of the actually licensed station in Sacramento. Despite what the article and linked document claim, no assignment of license or transfer of control was ever filed with the FCC, and KBQS-LP officially remains owned by Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen, not Sky Earth Network. While this article was originally written about the actually licensed station, information about the station's status and history is so clouded that it would be impossible to write an article about the station with any degree of accuracy. Reliable sources just aren't there.--Tdl1060 (talk) 20:06, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete First things first, the 98.9 allocation for San Francisco is held by KSOL. It's no wonder they got rejected to cover on that frequency.
Searching for their alleged 'sister station' KONB took me to this WIX site (WIX being a favorite haunt for TV/radio hoaxers here), which asks me to subscribe for $5/month to a TV service that doesn't exist, and somehow airs The Young & the Restless, Dr. Phil, Rachael Ray and Law & Order, which is likely news to KPIX-TV. Another link for their 'sister FM station' KONB-FM takes me to this bizarre podcast feed seemingly hosted by automated GoAnimate voices and random Fiverr'ed VOAs with commercials and audio stripped from an actual radio station. KXPD is a real station which isn't related to this in any way, of course, and then the last link I found was to the subject's YouTube channel, which is a mix of false TV promos, videos of a web browser trying to show this station is 'real', and other videos of the subject which I'm not going to comment on because I have no doctorate in anything and an overwhelming concern for their health overall. So this definitely isn't real at all, and AF, deletion is the only course here because if we tried to 'complete' this, it would be hosting a hoax here. Nate • (chatter) 23:26, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: I tried to make my way through this level of crazy and even I couldn't make sense of it. Everywhere I turn, Ms. Stein has her mitts in things and has muddied the waters so much, I can't even tell what's going on. Per Tdl1060, the station (according to FCC records), is owned by the Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen and not Sky Earth Network nor Ms. Stein. I can find no documentation where a sale has taken place between Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen and Stein. Per Sammi Brie, the station is, indeed, licensed to Sacramento and 98.9 and not San Francisco or 98.7. Now, an application was filed for the station to San Fran and to 98.7, but it was dismissed for reasons brought up by Mrschimpf (ie: KSOL). Finally, the station has been off the air since 3/19/2019, so technically, it's been silent for more than a year. While the FCC has allowed this, it is typically considered after 1 year a station is silent, the station is no longer on the air and relinquishes it's license under FCC rules.
Given all that and the mess that page is and the lack of viable, verifiable, reliable, sourceable information, I have to !vote delete here. When something, anything, can be added that can bring this back to even sub-stub status, I am more than happy to recreate the article myself. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:59 on February 18, 2021 (UTC)
Neutral: After hearing from RecNet (who I trust) and making changes to the page (if it was going down, it was going down without the crap on it), I am changing my !vote to Neutral. I agree with the Keeps that RevDel of Hoax Edits is HIGHLY NECESSARY AND MUCH NEEDED if this page is kept. While, I would like to see more in the article about it's past broadcasts, what it did before it went off the air and even if this hack that Recnet spoke of was covered by Sacramento or DC media. Even if it was covered by RadioInsight, Scott Fybush, or RecNet themselves. I'll take it. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:42 on February 21, 2021 (UTC)
I've worked with Michi on some off-wiki projects and am an extremely heavy user of FCCdata (few radio articles on stations extant after 1980 start without a visit there), but I am unfortunately not convinced that the coverage exists to justify the article—otherwise, I would have withdrawn the nomination with the decision to revert back to a stub. I searched high and low and came up with nothing to say what KBQS-LP even broadcast when it was activated. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:00, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The "hack" I speak of is nothing more than just being able to get the FRN (FCC Registration Number) password. This can be done by either (1) guessing an easy password, (2) knowing the answer to the security question - which for some FRN accounts is very easy or (3) contacting the FCC and pretending to be a board member of the station and getting the password reset. I can tell you that I have had discussions with the FCC Audio Division about "Kaylee" and the abuses they have done. I am not sure if/what the FCC has done (and if I did, I would not be at liberty to talk about it). Honestly, I don't want to see this brought up in trade publications because I don't want to give "Kaylee" any additional attention. This person has been doing this for years, even before the string of abusive filings on KBQS-LP. We have seen our share of original FM and TV CPs in the Bay Area originated from this person. The underlying non-profit, Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen has been closed due to COVID [1], but still, I am not sure of their involvement or whether they were a host organization (e.g. another group of people who approached them to license under their organization because SBK is more than 2 years old and would have qualified for the local presence preference point during the LPFM filing window. [2] I know there's not much information about the station, however, I see my share of listings on Wikipedia (LPFM and full-service) where the mere existence of the station warrants a page. KBQS-LP (and any other LPFM that is licensed or had their license cancelled) should be listed and preserved, even if only the bare technical and administrative information is available. Recnet (talk) 01:57, 22 February 2021 (UTC)recnet[reply]
@Recnet: Please know, I am most-certainly not questioning whether you make any of this effort ot not. I was just curious if there had been media coverage. To be honest, I have never heard of such a thing and I thought it would be a little tougher (probably is now). Normally a government hack (ie: FCC) gets a TON of media coverage.
@Sammi Brie: Trust me, I know. RecNet is heavily used by a LOT of us here too, myself included. :) RecNet is used in place of CRTC (since it can't be searched) in Canada. Anyway, my plan was, even if it was deleted, I was going to recreate it with current and correct information, some information about past broadcasts and what was aired, and some information on the hack. Because, unfortunately, Recnet, we cover it all (as long as it's sourced), good or bad. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:38 on February 22, 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep and semi-protect after the recent cleanup/restoration edit by Neutralhomer.[1] This edit is pretty much the same content as the pre-vandalism edit from 13 August 2020.[2] Since it is a silent station with no apparent notability beyond existence, I'm okay with soft-deletion, but I would like to see the vandalism edits revision-deleted as hoax-edits. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 01:21, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and add semi-protection. As the national regulatory advocate for the Low Power FM radio service, I am aware of the vandalism that is taking place and the person who is involved vandalizes other systems including those operated by the FCC and REC Networks (my organization). The person responsible for the vandalization has filed many applications on this LPFM station. Somehow or another, they were able to hack into or misrepresent themselves to the FCC to get information in order to make modifications. My personal attempts to reach the actual parties involved with Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen, the true licensee of this station, have been unsuccessful. This station is currently licensed and it is my understanding that the station has been silent, but it is hard to tell because of the many fake applications that have been filed by the person vandalizing the page. [3] All LPFM stations (and organizations and individuals who support them) should be eligible for a Wikipedia page. I would ask that any information about this station reflect only the information from the FCC as well as various reliable sources for LPFM information such as REC Networks, Common Frequency and Prometheus Radio Project. Recnet (talk) 22:47, 20 February 2021 (UTC)recnet[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.sacbikekitchen.org/closed-through-march-31st
  2. ^ https://recnet.com/73872
  3. ^ https://fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid=197555
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:42, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • This AfD is rather complicated, so I figured I'd restate the situation for the benefit of editors. The current article is vastly different from how it stood when I nominated it for AfD. It is a sub-stub article with accurate information that could conceivably stand in most circumstances. I still cannot shake my concern about coverage or any reliable info on what this station actually aired; if I could, this nomination would have been withdrawn nearly two weeks ago. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:11, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Same here. I've weighed in my mind whether to strike my delete !vote, but many of my concerns do remain. As far as the FCC records are concerned, the article is accurate. However, the station was apparently on the air for a total of only four and a half months – over two separate periods, and what (if anything) the station aired over those periods is a mystery.--Tdl1060 (talk) 21:24, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. A pure hoax. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 22:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and salt Article history is a mess and as written (and probably until a reporter writes up a long article about how outlandish these filings all are), I don't believe the station is notable as a silent station. Salting because I feel this will be recreated by the people who wrote the hoax parts. They already threatened legal action in edit summaries. --Michael Greiner 20:51, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Patent nonsense, and an extremely interesting rabbit hole I went down. With an absolute bizarre story, legal threats, attempts at doxxing other users, etc... Really not enough for article within any view I can see. Des Vallee (talk) 05:31, 7 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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