Talk:Library Bill of Rights

Talk:Library Bill of Rights

Cool, a new Library Bill of Rights page. Thanks, Rlitwin, for your work on this. --SafeLibraries 19:19, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Postamble Discrepancy

Right on the ALA's web page appears the LBR and an link to a PDF version of the LBR. Look carefully at the postambles in both and a difference is evident, the HTML and the PDF. Since the ALA is the source of the LBR, the discrepancy should be resolved by the ALA so this wiki page reflects the correct postamble. IMHO. --SafeLibraries 19:26, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I am aware of what you are talking about. Note that the sources of the information in the history section are also ALA publications - the 1939 Bulletin and ALA's own history of itself published in 1978. I do not know why the postamble on the website doesn't acknowledge the 1939 version of the LBR, but I have it right in front of me. Rlitwin 20:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Critical responses/Controversy

Let's all be honest here. The LBR is the source of considerable controversy. This controversy is absent from this page. Let's consider adding it in in a way we all agree that's wiki worthy.

The main controversy (is there another) is over the word age. Right off the top of my head I can think of a few things that might be relevant.

1) The US Supreme Court in US v. ALA said it is legitimate, even compelling, to keep children from inappropriate material, yet the ALA has explained why it will not change the LBR accordingly.

2) The ALA and its influence is huge over American libraries. So with the ALA not removing the age language, there still remains no reason why children should not have access to inappropriate materials, and with the ALA's nationwide influence, that's a lot of children.

3) In Overland Park, Kansas, a public library board voted 4-3 to remove the word "age" from their own LBR. That started a huge ALA, well, killer bee-like reaction resulting in the word being restored to the local policy and the governmental officials promising to carefully review the resumes of potential library board members to ensure only those aligned with the ALA get appointed to the positions.

So let's all take the time to consider how best to present it. --SafeLibraries 19:40, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

See current edit. Rlitwin 20:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. Such a simple edit. Very general in nature. Shouldn't there be more to it? Let's hear what others have to say. --SafeLibraries 20:16, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Even what I added to mention the "controversy" lacks a citation (the citation there refers to the fact of "age" being reaffirmed as an element, not the reason for it). Anything more would definitely need a good citation to a reputable source. I think to most people the "controversy" you are interested in promoting is rather obscure. There are critics, and you seem to be chief among them. That their views (your views) are significant seems to them and you to be self-evident based on the facts. However, that's not how it works in wikiepedia, as you learned in your lengthy discussion on the American Library Association article's talk page; that kind of edit would essentially be original research, which is not allowed. If there is an article in a publication that is not a publication of a one-issue advocacy group, then you have a citation that you can use to substantiate an edit of the kind you would like. But in fact no controversy about age being an aspect of the LBR has ever bubbled up to the surface in American cultural debate as far as I'm aware. I don't think the "issue" deserves more than the brief mention I gave it, if even that. And that's not because of my estimation of the merits of the criticisms, which is really not even relevant, but because of the lack of publications in the general media about your criticisms. Rlitwin 20:39, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Rlitwin, I can see now you are a reasonable man; someone I can reason with. Based on what you said, I'll have to admit that I fully agree with you. You see I'm reasonable too.

Now the following comments will not contradict what I just said. Since you said, "But in fact no controversy about age being an aspect of the LBR has ever bubbled up to the surface in American cultural debate as far as I'm aware," that means to me that all I would need to do is to provide you with evidence, third party evidence, not original research, that indeed that is a controversy somewhere in the world other than in the mind of SafeLibraries.org. Would you agree to that, or would at least agree that's a reasonable conclusion based on your statements?

To that end, allow me to specify a "controversy about age being an aspect of the LBR [that] has ... bubbled up to the surface in American cultural debate...." I cite an impeccable source we can all agree for the purposes of this talk is wiki worthy, namely, the Library Journal, published by the ALA, although the article's slant is obvious.

Board in Johnson County, KS, Board Excises ALA Bill of Rights Language, Library Journal, 4 May 2005.

Does the American Library Association’s (ALA) Bill of Rights stop a library from protecting children from pornography? Worried about that possibility, the board of the Johnson County Library (JCL), Overland Park, KS, recently voted 4-3 to strip the language from the library’s collection development guidelines. The action may turn out to be symbolic, as two of the board members who voted to delete the language are at the end of their term. Plus, patrons have made their displeasure over the action known to JCL staff.

“Because of patron response to the action, the staff will request that the action be reconsidered,” County Librarian Mona Carmack said. Barton Cohen, who led the effort to delete the ALA Bill of Rights language, told the Kansas City Star that he particularly opposed ALA language regarding the importance of “presenting all points of view on current and historical issues.”

More on this specific case to follow. I have to take a break from writing for now for a while!!!!

Where is the Truth About Inclusion of Age Into the LBR? ALA Sources are Contradictory -- Is This Intentional?

Listen. I'm not argumentative. I'm not making up controversy out of whole cloth. I'm not making up anything. I look at ALA sources, major ones, and I see a major discrepancy regarding the inclusion os "age" into the LBR. And I really think this needs to be addressed.

The "postamble," the one at the bottom of the LBR, what does it say? It says, "Adopted June 18, 1948, by the ALA Council; amended February 2, 1961; January 23, 1980; inclusion of “age” reaffirmed January 23, 1996." That's the HTML version. The PDF version is different but not significantly so for the purposes of this talk. So "amendments" occurred when? 1961 and 1980. In 1996, inclusion of "age" was reaffirmed. Are you with me so far?

Now you say it was adopted in 1939. And I think you are correct. But why does the ALA LBR not so state itself? Be that as it may, one example of contradictory ALA sources, it's not central to the point I am about to make. Please keep reading.

Now another source, a top ALA source, Judith Krug, says the LBR was amended in 1967 when "age" is added to the LBR. Yet the LBR postamble does not reveal it was amended at that time. Why? 29 years later "age" gets "affirmed"? Why? Here is the source of this information, another impeccable source: Two Hundred Years of Young Adult Library Information Services History, a Chronology where it says, "1967 .... 'Age' is added to the Library Bill of Rights (Krug)." That "Krug" cite refers to "Sources .... Krug, Judith. E-mail communication, October 19, 2004."

I ask someone in the ALA to please publish that "Krug, Judith. E-mail communication, October 19, 2004" right here for all to see, full and complete.

So I have several concerns and they are relevant to the encyclopedic article about the LBR. What is the truth about the inclusion of "age" into the LBR? Why was it done? When? How? By whom? How is the LBR "amemded" and was that process the same as what added "age"? Why the 29 year gap to "reaffirm"? May we see the Krug email of October 19, 2004 cited as a source for that article? Why is the addition of "age" not included in the postamble? Why is it not considered an amendment? What years did Judith Krug act as board member and/or director of the ACLU and/or the Illinois ACLU? If her years with the ACLU coincided exactly or nearly with "age" being added to the LBR, would it not be relevant to examine the documents exchanged between the ACLU and the ALA relating to this issue? Is the ACLU the ultimate source of the addition of "age" into the LBR? Why? What is the real goal, not the claimed goal?

I hope you will agree I have raised a valid issue perfect for placement on the LBR wiki page that I did not create in the first place. Indeed, an ALA personage of your stature within the ALA has created the page, and from what I hear that means the page may not be fully wiki compliant. I look forward to your comments and those of many others. --SafeLibraries 03:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)