Talk:List of fastest production cars by acceleration

Kit cars and references.

Kit cars (like the Ultima GTR) shouldn't be allowed on the list, they simply aren't production cars. Acceleration tests performed by individuals (like the Corvette runs on YouTube that keep showing up in the list) also shouldn't be allowed as there is no way to verify that the cars have not been modified. IJB TA (talk) 15:28, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

The DUT Team (as well as they've done) should be excluded, since it's not a production car, it's a specialised car with a goal of 0-60 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.3.92.30 (talk) 00:09, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

GT-R

The Nissan Gt-R is not quite good because it runs very fast on the first but it runs as slow as a tortoise when it is near to the finish line

LP640

The LP640 has two entries, which contradicts the rules at the top of the article. 74.130.215.240 00:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The times cannot be correct, for 1/4 Mile.

They are listed as being the same as the 60MPH times, also top fuel dragsters don't run a 1/4 mile in 2.4 seconds. --Indiana Don (talk) 21:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

are the times correct?

The time for the first car on the list is 1.4. A car can't possibly go from 0 to 100 Km/h in 1.4 seconds. Also, the time for the second car is 1.85, but when you follow the link, the 0-100Kmh acceleration time for this car is closer to 3. Is there something I'm missing, or are the number plainly bogus? Jorge Peixoto 22:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

If you click on the numbered links (not the wikipedia links) next to the cars, you will be linked to the manufacturers page (for Hennessey) where they state 1.85 s. As for the Halltech, that seems to be a one-off car, with little information available, yet it seems to be in line with the Lingenfelter/Hennessey cars in how it is tuned. Maybe it's a typo, but until we can find some verification... User:Gunter

Top speed

Shouldn't the list include one for the top speeds as well? 71.250.17.62 19:13, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It should be a seperate list. Gunter 19:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

0-100-0mph World Record

The Ultima GTR has recently blitzed the World Record for accelerating from 0mph to 100mph and back to 0mph (0-100-0) in a ratified time of 9.4 seconds. In the course of this, the car improved it's time of 2.7 seconds to 62mph in a time of 2.6 seconds. Table has been modified accordingly. What an acheivement!! Kiwichipster 04:00, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Missing Autos

A lot of cars have not been shown. Many other Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches, and Mercedes-Benz have surpassed quite a few of the cars on this list. Please revise.67.86.24.40 13:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Provide some info and i'll be glad to. Gunter 19:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Shucks. The Tesla Roadster hasn't qualified yet? --Dan 22:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

^On that note there are numerous EVs (Electric Vehicles) that qualify to be on the "fastest from 0 - 60" list. The Shelby SuperCars Aero EV went from 0-60 mph in 2.5s (Yes this is a production car). Please take a look at the reference for more EVs that deserve a spot 68.84.77.239 (talk) 04:43, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

How come the 68 Hemi Dart and Barracuda are not in the list? They're known as the fastest production street car ever produced. You could buy them for a very reasonnable amount of money from a regular Dodge/Plymouth dealer, they produced hundred of them and right from the showroom, they were 10 seconds car. As a matter of fact, with minor modifications, they became 8.2 second car... Those were carburated, no-power-adder, 426 Street Hemis. I really don't understand why they don't qualify. François Côté — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.58.7.32 (talk) 18:05, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Mixing concept cars, one-offs and production cars

This is simply unacceptable. You can't possibly compare them as they are totally different beasts. First of all, the numbers for concept cars are most often theoretical. Numbers from tuners are notoriously inaccurate. --SpinyNorman 09:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

You can add a column stating the type of each car, but do not change the list format. The list shows any road-legal car, it does not matter if it is a concept, factory or tuned. Also each has a link either to the manufacturer or tester which shows the acceleration figure Gunter 11:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

The current list format is wrong and completely unacceptable. I am changing it to more accurately reflect the real world - that is not "vandalism". I think you must not understand what a "concept car" really is. Most concept cars are dummies built for car shows to promote the company. Many aren't even capable of being driven on the road and none of them are street-legal. The reason is that they are prototypes built for promotional purposes and there is no reason for the manufacturer to have them certified for road use. Mentioning them as a matter of interest is one thing but they cannot reasonably be compared to production cars. As for tuner cars, listing the claims of the tuner is pointless as the figures they give are typically theoretical and few of them are independently verified. The idea that a Corvette (regardless of the torque of its engine) can accelerate from 0-60 in 1.4 seconds in street-legal tires is absurd - particularly when the car in question is a turbocharged, front-engine, rear-wheel-drive vehicle. That claim doesn't pass the laugh test. --SpinyNorman 16:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Cars that are unacceptable for inclusion on this list

1. Any tuner vehicle (especially from Hennessey) whose performance hasn't been independently confirmed.

2. Any "concept car" or car that is not planned for production.

3. Any car that *is* planned for production but hasn't yet actually entered production and become available for sale to the public. And by "available for sale", I don't mean that the company is taking deposits, I mean that someone with a fat wallet can walk into a showroom somewhere and drive out in one of these cars.

--SpinyNorman 21:26, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

If a vendor posts a figure on their website, that is acceptable. A concept car is still a car, and thus belongs on the list. Any prototype car is still a car, and thus belongs on the list.

This is a list of the fastest "cars", not the fastest "production cars" or whatever subdivision you are trying to achieve, if that is what you want create a new article with the title "List of fastest production cars by acceleration" and stop vandalising this article. Gunter 22:28, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

The criteria for inclusion is clear - this list is open to street-legal cars only. Concept cars, by definition aren't street legal. You don't seem to understand what a concept car is. If you did, you'd understand why they have no place on this list. Concept cars are never intended to be made street-legal. They have an entirely different set of design criteria and many of them don't even run. As for tuner cars, if there is independent verification of their performance, then they can be included. But the unverified claims of the manufacturer based on who-knows-what kind of special conditions for the "test" don't cut any ice. BTW, just because you don't agree with something, that doesn't make it vandalism. --SpinyNorman 03:28, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Which part of "Go make a seperate article" don't you understand? Gunter 10:43, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Which part of "this list is open to street-legal cars only" don't YOU understand? Do you understand what a concept car is? Were you aware that, for example, the Audi Avus was never roadworthy? Did you know that the car that everyone saw at the show had an engine that was carved out of wood? --SpinyNorman 21:15, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

As i said before, if you want to question an entry, bring it up here and we can discuss it. Do not bulk edit the article, that is not how things are done in wikipedia. If you want to create a new article containing only whatever limitation on cars you want, go ahead, but leave this list alone. Gunter 21:49, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I have brought it up here and you ignore it. You refuse to accept the criteria for inclusion on this page and insist on adding cars to the list that have never actually been built. --SpinyNorman 05:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

You have not mentioned individual entries, one by one. Once you do we can discuss them Gunter 12:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll start: The #1 Entry was the Halltech Corvette with 1.4 s, i removed that because i can only find one website which even mentions the car, not even then vendor mentions this car on their website.

Next, 1.85s 2006 Hennessey Dodge Viper SRT10 Venom 1000 Twin Turbo, the rule should be that if a vendor posts a figure on their website it is acceptable. If the figure would not be correct the vendor would be liable for false advertising. Gunter 13:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

---

Without independent conformation, the claimed of tuners like Hennessey aren't worth the paper on which they are printed. Hennessey in particular has a very dodgy reputation both in terms of the quality of the work they do and the veracity of their claims [1]. You are mistaken about the legal liability for internet posting. Show a single example of a vendor suffering legal penalties for inaccurate information posted on the internet. It doesn't happen. As a practical matter, vendors can say what they like on their websites and even if they get called on it, they can simply claim it is either a typo or a mistake made by their webmaster. Internet claims don't have the same weight as those in the mainstream press.

Next, the SVT Mustang. That doesn't belong here because it is not planned for production and, as such, is not street legal. There's not even any evidence that the performance claims have been verified by real-world testing - much less independently confirmed.

Lingenfelter's claims are more robust that Hennessey's, but they still don't make the cut here. The reprinted article in the link, had you taken the time to read it, states clearly that Motor Trend magazine wasn't able to get reliable acceleration stats because the car was constantly breaking traction (as if that should come as a surprise to anyone). That's the problem with these outrageous claims of acceleration from turbocharged, front-engine, rear-wheel-drive cars... Perhaps if you understood the engineering problems, you'd see why the issue is so problematic. Let me explain: The high weight of the Corvette is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it increases traction (which is necessary to convert the torque at the wheels into forward movement) but on the other hand it also increases the intertia that must be overcome in order to accelerate the car. However, the increase in traction doesn't compensate for the increase in inertia. In other words, they're fighting a losing battle. In addition, a turbocharged, pushrod V8 has pretty much exactly the opposite operational characteristics that you want for fast acceleration in a performance car. In a high-powered performance car, you want the peak power relative high up (in terms of revs). This operates as a sort of natural traction control so that, off the line, torque is relatively low. This reduces the tendency for wheelspin. However, as the car accelerates and as the revs climb, you want torque to increase in a fairly linear fashion - as the car's capacity to handle more torque also increases. A pushrod V8 (as used in the Corvette) has the characteristics of a truck engine - bags of torque at low revs. Ditto for the pushrod V10 as found in the Dodge Viper. This is great when you're carrying a big load or towing something heavy, but it sucks for performance cars - unless you like "burning rubber". Turbochargers make things worse by not only increasing low-down torque but destroying the linearity of delivery. As the turbos kick in at, say, 2500 rpm, there is a huge surge of power. It is one thing if you've strapped a turbo or two to a small-displacement engine whose power output is nowhere near the traction limit of the tires - as Japanese manufacturers like to do. Such an application gives a big "whack in the back" as the driver opens the throttle from a standing start. This is why teenaged "boy racers" love them - it exaggerates the power delivery. However, in a car like the Corvette whose engine already delivers more than enough torque to break traction from a standing start, the addition of turbocharging is disastrous for acceleration performance. This is why such a car cannot reliably accelerate as quickly as something like the Bugatti Veyron - with its sophisticated computerized traction control systems and (much more importantly) four-wheel drive. What even the most conservative and sober tuners do is they go out and run dozens (perhaps hundreds) of acceleration runs and then simply take the one fluke run in which they got a good, fast time. The odds of even a professional driver replicating those times is vanishingly small. Look at the facts, even the Veilside Skyline can only manage 0-60 times in the low 3-second range and it not only has a better power:weight ratio than the Corvette, but it also has four-wheel drive. In addition, it is running a smaller-displacement, overhead cam straight-six rather than the giant pushrod V8 in the Corvette. This gives the Skyline FAR better operating characteristics for this kind of application. The idea that ANY turbocharged Corvette or Viper in street tires could even come close to the Veilside Skyline is laughable.

The Caparo hasn't been built yet so it isn't yet street legal and no one has had the opportunity to independently evaluate the manufacturer's claims... If and when these things happen and the theoretical performance has been shown to be real, then the car can be added to the list. But not until then.

The Dauer Porsche... no independent confirmation. Until that happens, the acceleration figures are just unsupported fantasy.

The Chevy Camaro ZL1 Concept... Do you understand that concept cars are, by definition, not street-legal? In most cases, they don't even really exist in the forms talked about by the manufacturer. The Ford GT-90 is a perfect example. The one prototype they built was a cobbled-together "frankenstein monster" that was, according to British automotive journalist Jeremy Clarkson, horrible to drive even at 40mph. The performance claims were all theoretical, as the prototype was never going to be capable of testing them. In the case of the Camaro, the car was never built, so those claims could never be tested. How can a car that was never built be street-legal?

...do you want me to continue?

--SpinyNorman 18:26, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, i want you to continue, but spare me the condecending arrogance. Just state your points. Re: Hennessey and Lingenfelter, i disagree, their figures are published and as such are valid. Otherwise you might as well question every vendor and magazine claim as suspect, since everyone strives for the best result under the best conditions. And in the case of magazines, don't call them independant, they can have a vendor bias depending on who is paying for the advertising that week.

The unsupported claims of Hennessey and Lingenfelter are worthless - particularly. That's true of any vendor and it is also why Ultima had independent auditors come in and verify their performance claims - they understood that no one would accept their unsupported word for such astonishing performance claims. However, the auditors came and verified Ultima's claims and established their validity. Hennessey and Lingenfelter can talk out of their ass all they like, but until they submit an actual vehicle to independent scrutiny, they're not worthy of being taken seriously. --SpinyNorman 20:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The SVT Boss Mustang also stays, it doesn't have to be "production" to be a "car", and it was street-legal.

I don't think you really understand what it takes for a major manufacturer to get a car declared "street legal" in the US. It costs tens of millions of dollars and, therefore, is only undertaken for production vehicles. Concept cars are, by definition, not street-legal. I wonder how many more times I have to explain this to you before you get it. I suppose you'll find that condescending but it is a legitimate question. I have repeated tried to explain this to you and you have repeatedly either ignored the fact or failed to grasp it. Which is it? --SpinyNorman 20:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

the article quotes says they drove it to the track, implying street legality. Gunter 02:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

It implies nothing of the sort. There's nothing in the link about them driving the car to the track. Even if there was, there's nothing that implies the car jumped thorough the various DOT hoops to be certified for road use. And the fact that there is only one of these vehicles is proof that it isn't street legal. Part of the testing procedure includes the consumption of several donor vehicles for various crash tests. In any case, it would be sheer foolishness for Ford to spend the money and engineering resources to get a car certified for road use that they have no intention of ever selling to anyone. --SpinyNorman 03:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The Caparo can go as it isn't out yet.

The Camaro concept was built and was tested. Concept does not mean it cannot or was not street-legal.

Yes, actually, it DOES mean that it isn't street legal. There is no reason why a manufacturer would go to the effort and expense (considerable in both cases) of certifying a concept car for use on public roads. Why? Because concept cars won't be driven by the public on public roads. Care to explain why the Big Three would spend tens of millions of dollars to certify a car that no one will ever drive on public roads? I didn't think so. Take an example like TVR. They manufacture several hundred cars per year for sale in the UK and Europe. The only reason they can do this is because, under British and European law, "low-volume" manufacturers (like TVR, Noble, Marcos, Ultima, etc. et al.) are entitled to special exemptions and expedited approval that is not available to major manufacturers. They are not entitled to this special treatment in North America. This is why the companies I mentioned (with two exceptions) do not sell cars in North America. It simply wouldn't be profitable. As for the two exceptions... Noble gets around it by pretending to sell their cars as a "kit". If someone wants to buy a Noble badly enough, they can contact the company who arrange to have a car without engine or transaxle shipped to the US where the buyer can arrange to purchase the drivetrain separately and have it installed. Ultima actually does offer their vehicles in kit form. --SpinyNorman 20:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Dauer is valid, it is a street-legal racing car, why would you doubt the figures.

That isn't the question. The question is why would you blindly accept unverified figures?

The Porsche 962 race cars has documented figures. Gunter 02:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Where? --SpinyNorman 03:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The GT-90 is also valid, it ran and acheived the acceleration listed.

ROTFLMAO! Why on earth would you think that? Jeremy Clarkson, a respected British auto journalist is on record as saying that he was one of the few who was allowed to drive the prototype and that it was everything that those few prototypes actually capable of being driven usually are... very pretty to look at and HORRIBLE to drive. It wasn't capable of exceeding about 40mph and drove like an Escort that had been in a terrible accident. When car companies build show cars, they're just that... for show. Typically, they contract the construction out to a small manufacturer who specializes in custom fabrication for the simple reason that the big manufacturers don't have the ability to make one-offs in a cost-effective manner. In the case of the GT90, it was cobbled together from pieces out of the Ford parts bin that were bolted onto a custom fabricated steel-tube chassis able to take the body panels. The engine block actually started life as two Ford V8s that had one pair of cylinders lopped off and were then electron-beam welded together to form a V12 block. You would never do this in an actual manufacturing situation. But then the rules are different for concept cars. The prototype engine wasn't capable of anything remotely resembling the output claims made for it. The output and performance claims were engineering targets. In other words, they were a goal for the engineers who might be put on the project to reach if possible. That's how cars are designed. That's the reason the Bugatti Veyron took so long to be released. The engineering targets were extremely ambitious and when they kept failing to be met, VAG made the decision to postpone release of the vehicle until the targets were met, rather than holding fast to the release date but with a compromized vehicle. --SpinyNorman 20:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe you should correct the GT-90 Wikipedia page which says it ran, i checked elsewhere and like you said it never did. So it can go Gunter 02:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I will correct the page. They were also wrong about the origin of the engine. --SpinyNorman 03:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I would like to redefine 1. as shouldn't this list be for production cars as tuner cars are usually one-offs, as as result, I have now removed 1 tuner cars and 1 race cars from this list —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Willirennen (talk • contribs) 22:35, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

Page protection

I see there's a revert war so I've protected the page for some time out. Please try to reach agreement on the talk page instead of reverting. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 22:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Please, let's not start this again

I've made it abundantly clear how the entries I removed don't meet either the criteria for inclusion in the article or wikipedia's own requirements for verifiability. The article specifically and explicitly states that the cars must be road-legal in their intended market. In addition, the claims must be independently verifiable as per wikipedia policy. So, that rules out ALL concept cars and those tuner cars whose performance hasn't been independently verified. If you have a problem with this then say so but don't just revert the page without talking about it first. --SpinyNorman 11:41, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not going to rediscuss the same problems again. You cannot bulk edit, you can bring up individual cars and we can discuss. You POV as to which manufacturers are admissible and which not is absurd. You should be banned from Wikipedia with your constant 3RR and other disruptive behaviour. Your talk page is full of complaints that you obviously do not understand. Gunter 18:28, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Look, the criteria for inclusion in this article is clear: the car has to be street legal. As I have REPEATEDLY tried to explain to you, concept cars aren't street legal. If you don't understand what a concept car is, you have no business editing this article. And I have brought up the cars I have removed for discussion and you have, so far, provided no valid argument for why they should remain - thus I have deleted them and will continue to delete them until you can provide evidence that supports their inclusion. --SpinyNorman 05:47, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

You have not proven anything, you don't seem to understand how wikipedia works, items are discussed before they are edited en mass. You are just being disruptive and hostile. I have removed the Camaro Concept. You have yet to discuss any others. And as for your removal of reputable tuners claiming whatever they say is wrong, is laughable. Gunter 11:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

We have discussed things repeatedly and you have repeatedly failed to make your case for the inclusion of cars that violate both the criteria of the article (i.e. any concept car, since they are by definition not street legal) and the policies of wikipedia (i.e. the unverifiable claims of tuners). Cars whose inclusion cannot be supported are removed, it is as simple as that. Your belligerence in repeatedly trying to restore cars in violation of policy and without supporting evidence for their inclusion is the only "hostile and disruptive" activity going on here. You are invited to stop anytime you like. --SpinyNorman 06:16, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, I removed the Brabus-tuned SLR and Lingenfelter Viper because there is no indepedent confirmation of their performance. Also the Lotus GT1 since there's no evidence it ever got past the prototype phase and, as such, isn't street legal. I also removed the Aston Martin V8 Le Mans. Awesome car though it certainly is, the idea that it could, at 4,300 lbs, lumber to 60mph in 3.8 seconds is laughable. More realistic claims put the 0-60 time at around 5 seconds [2]... awe-inspiring for a cars of its bulk to be sure but well outside consideration for inclusion here. --SpinyNorman 06:29, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

If you want to remove an entry, you can bring each individual car up here for discussion, you do not just remove 50 cars from the list. Gunter 10:11, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The reasoning for concept cars and unverified claims for tuners are all the same for each, there is no point in discussing each case individually. The fact is that the cars I removed are not eligible for inclusion as per the criteria of this page and wikipedia policy in general. Until and unless you can provide evidence that supports their inclusion, they cannot be included. If you provide (a) evidence that the car in question is street-legal and (b) evidence that the acceleration times have been independently verified then the car in question can be added to the list. But until you can do both of those things, they stay gone. --SpinyNorman 19:56, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

So now you're just reverting without any discussion at all? I've told you, if you can provide evidence to support the inclusion of a given car, then the car can be included. If you can't provide such evidence, why are you bothering to include it? --SpinyNorman 16:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi, in my understanding of Wikipedia policy, primary references can only be used in an article about that subject. In the case of this article, that doesn't apply, so we should use secondary references. Addhoc 16:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Gunter's comment, could we start by discussing Hennessey. The source being used is a primary source and of course should be a reliable and reputable secondary source, such as for example, The Times newspaper used for the Veryon. Addhoc 19:45, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

ABSOLUTELY! And thank you for your willingness to discuss this reasonably. I have taken the liberty of creating a separate section below and copying your remark into it to keep things simpler. (note to Gunter: See how this is done? Maybe you should stop violating wiki policy and stop vandalising the page. If you did, you'd get farther than you are now. If you insist on keeping up this behavior, I'm going to have to consider your actions to be "blanking" under the vandalism policy and that will free me up from the 3RR limitation.)

Discussing the Hennessey

Regarding Gunter's comment, could we start by discussing Hennessey. The source being used is a primary source and of course should be a reliable and reputable secondary source, such as for example, The Times newspaper used for the Veryon. Addhoc 19:45, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I assume you mean the 1.85 second 0-60 claim? The problem I have with tuners in general (and Hennessey in particular) is that their claims are, to put it as politely as possible, inherently suspect. Hennessey has a history of questionable business practices and claims. In addition, the claim that a street-legal, turbcharged Viper can so substantially out-accelerate a Bugatti Veyron is, to put it again as politely as possible, EXTREMELY suspect. So, given the history of unreliability of tuner claims and Hennessey claims in particular, combined with the questionable nature of the claim, I don't see how the car can be on this list without independent verification of the claim. I agree with your interpretation of the wiki policy on the admissibility of evidence. This article isn't about Hennessey, so using Hennessey as support for competitive claims simply isn't in keeping with wiki policy. I would also like to ask your help in keeping Gunter at bay until we can settle this. He simply isn't willing to listen to logic or reason. It would help the article if we can keep his unsupported reverts from damaging the content. I would prefer not to have to argue that his edits now qualify as vandalism. Hopefully, between the two of us, we can keep things on the right track. (SpinyNorman)

Yes, I agree, this a highly suspect claim that should be verified by a reliable and reputable source. However, I don't agree that Gunter is a vandal. Accordingly, would Gunter like to comment on my interpretation of policy? Addhoc 20:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad you agree that the claim is both suspect and, according to wiki policy, must be independently verified before being accepted for this article. In fact, I would argue that even if the claim *is* verified, that the independent referee should be the source for the article rather than Hennessey. I'm disappointed you don't feel that Gunter is engaging in vandalism, frankly, I'm a loss as to how else you could describe someone who arbitrarily wipes out edits by others that have been repeated discussed and supported. Oh well. I guess I can't win 'em all.  ;-) --SpinyNorman 20:41, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm am so tired of having to go over the same arguments again and again, and now watch as a vandal trys to make me the guilty one.

Norman is simply unable to follow wikipedia guidelines. If he wants to make a change to the list, bring the individual car up here for discussion, and if a CONSENSUS is reached (spiny doesn't know what that means) we will make a change. He continually butchers the entire list with generalizations, no matter what the consensus is. As for having supplied any evidence, he has not, he continualy raves on about how any vendor who posts a figure is suspect. Saying a vendor's figure is suspect because they obtain it under the most ideal conditions is absurd, since that is what every vendor would do. Yet in his ignorance assumes that there is such a thing as an independant review, show me an unbiased magazine that prints bad results for a vendor that is advertizing with them, if they did they would not be in business long. Also how can i vandalise my own article, i wrote practically the entire list, as such i have an unwritten obligation to keep vandalism out, since no one else is. I have no problem removing entries that are wrong, but lets discuss them first (spiny cannot comprehend this, as you see above i have been trying to explain this simple concept to him for 2 weeks non-stop!). As for policy, i feel if a vendor stakes their reputation on a statement we as an encyclopedic article are not here to give our POV is the vendor is lying, otherwise you might as well delete 50% of all wikipedia content. As i have offered norman, add an extra column and make comments like "unverified, concept, tuned, production" etc. The criteria for inclusion (which i wrote) is road-legal cars, so all tuners cars are road-legal, and as for the concepts and one-offs we can dicuss them individually, i don't have the time to discuss 50 cars at one as spiny would like, that is unrealistic. Gunter 00:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Gunter, on this page we should only be discussing this article in terms of existing WP policy. If you want to suggest changes to WP policy, then fine, but suggest those changes on the talk page of the appropriate policy. In this context, current policy indicates we should use secondary not primary sources. Accordingly, could I request, you don't attempt to reintroduce the information based on primary sources, until we have found a consensus? Addhoc 11:08, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

(sigh) Let me try to explain this to you once again. You cannot include material here in violation of both wiki policy and the page's own criteria for inclusion and then sit back and expect people to not challenge your attempts to do so. The fact remains that the majority of OEM vendors obtain independent confirmation of their claims (e.g. Bugatti, Ultima, etc, ad nauseum) but none of the tuners you have listed here do so. Wiki policy forbids using biased claims like those of the vendors for comparison purposes such as this article. That is not subject to question, it is black letter wiki pol

barabus tkr

I've removed it from the top of the list since, as far as I know, it hasn't been independently verified which is one of the main criteria for getting on this list. The car is also not in production yet so it doesn't qualify as being "available for sale to the public". In fact I'm surprised this got on the list in the first place, everybody knows they'll never achieve those figures.--Santahul 00:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Street Legal/Tuner/Concept

Just one more issue to consider: If a one-off tuner car can be considered on the list why not street legal Race cars like say Rod Saboury's various Corvette's running sub 7 second quarter mile times (probably <1 second 0-60 although I haven't found confirmation of this yet).

I guess my point is I feel this list should only include cars that have been licensed and driven on the street in some country around the world (doesn't have to be America). Any thoughts? Macutty 23:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Ascari A10

Don't think this one should be here....even the Ascari wesite says it's still in developement so how can we know actual speeds?

See here: http://www.ascari.net/subsecciones.php?idioma=2&&seccion=19&&subseccion=40

Independent claims

I think we should require independent claims for all cars. Saleen's claim, for example, of 2.8s for the Twin Turbo S7 seems unlikely considering that Car and Driver's test found 3.4s [3]. Λυδαcιτγ 20:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I shall implement this policy, unless someone objects. Λυδαcιτγ 01:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. These manufacturer claims are largely for marketing. Laplacian 18:41, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree as well. I think these cars should only be ranked based on actual verified independent tests done by reputable groups. Manufacturers always "adjust" specs on cars. Horsepower sometimes can be significantly lower or higher. I have no doubt that many manufacturers use unreal world conditions when calculating some of their cars performance numbers.--70.151.53.66 (talk) 14:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

The SSC Ultimate Aero only has a manufacturer claim listed as a reference, should it be removed until there is an independently verified time available? IJB TA (talk) 21:36, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

LP640

Did you delete the record??? there are two record but one of these 2006 others 2007.

No... Λυδαcιτγ 00:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

S7

Isnt the saleen slr twin turbo the fastest car... this isnt correct

This isnt correct this list is not right. Forbes magazine comfirms that the saleen twin turbo is the fastest car, and on wikipedia there is no record times listed, therefore there is still a chance that I am correct, please look up your info.. the bugadi is not the fastest car! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.211.19.245 (talk • contribs)

The S7 has a claimed 0-60 time of 2.8s, so Forbes must be out of date. Λυδαcιτγ 02:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Hennessey 800TT

2.43 seconds - do we count this one? Λυδαcιτγ 05:34, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

xjr15?

does the xjr15 qualify?0-60 in 3.1s 84.9.34.174 04:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Apparently. Got a citation? Λυδαcιτγ 04:51, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

street legal/production car/one off

this article should follow used by the fastest production car (top speed) there are so many home made dragsters, that the acceleration table would have 1000 tuned up drag racers, before it saw a real car, made by a real company.

it should be production cars as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_superlatives

if someone wants a sep. table with a few notable non-production cars, and a few of the wild claims made by tuners etc, then thats would be a nice touch, but the main point of this article should conform to wikipedia's automotive superlatives.Sennen goroshi 05:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Ferrari FXX

Ferrari FXX should be removed from the list. It is not street legal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.0.125.101 (talk) 13:18, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

 Done Λυδαcιτγ 03:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Motor Trend quote

A relevant quote from Motor Trend ([4]):

Optimistic power claims from tuners make for splashy headlines, but what's really being delivered to the pavement is a whole different story.

Λυδαcιτγ 08:32, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

1991 GMC Syclone Pickup Truck

With 0-60 in 4.6 seconds in 1991, only 3 cars from the list were faster than the GMC Syclone Pickup Truck. It should merit a mention. --Hiro DynoSlayer (talk) 05/8/2008 03:47 (EST)

Missing Car: Donkevoort

I have seen that the Donkevoort D8 270 was missing. It goes from 0 - 100 km/h in 3,8 seconds and a top speed of 260 km/h. This information is from a car catalogue made by the car magazine Carros. Carros has an online database but this car only is noted in the catalogue. Also you should be able to find something about this car on the site of Donkevoort and on the wikipedia page of Donkevoort there are also sources. I am not going to ad this in this article cause i first want to know what other people think about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.147.24.49 (talk) 11:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Missing Cars

Mercedes-Benz has a version of the SLR McLaren, the 722, wich has an accaleration of 0-100 in 3,6 sec. The Spyker C12 Spyder goes from 0-100 in 3,9 sec and so it should be included too. The TVR 350C 3.6 goes from 0-100 in 3,9 sec. I have these numbers from the Carros catalogue and so it should be possible to look these numbers up in their database and on some other sites like the official manufacter sites.

Vandalism

I can see Honda Civic on the top and this is probably not the first time it happens, so maybe this article should be locked? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.187.1.251 (talk) 13:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I also saw a Chevy S10 on the quater mile list with an absurd time of like 10 seconds. This madness must stop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.165.137.97 (talk) 02:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

• Formula One Car was added and is definately not a production car. Seems like vandalism to me, so I just took it out.--65.51.87.2 (talk) 21:44, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Ariel Atom - different versions

The time for the Atom 2 300 is listed as 2.88 as a manufacturers claim however the original manufacturers claim was 2.9 and the 2.88 was measured by The Times. In addition, the top Atom 3 has a little more power and 0-60mph in 2.7 was claimed by the designer when he appeared on Fifth Gear. The Atom 3 500 is not yet available but has been suggested as 'significantly less than 2.5s'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.231.210.146 (talk) 19:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

missing cars

I want to note that this list is far from complete. I have done a lot of research on a lot of cars and there are defineately a ton of cars missing. Right off the bat I can tell that the Ferrari F-50, Isdera 112i, and Ford GT should be on the list. Also the qualifications for the cars are not specified. Does it only include production cars? I'm not sure that every car that is on the list now is really a production car. Or sould it even include drag racers? Heck, depeding on your defenition of a car and your qualifications for the cars that should be on this list; you could even include jet powered drag races. Those would blow away every car on the list. Anyhow this list isn't very accurate at all. Wikipedia is usually very accurate, but not when it comes to lists of this kind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.114.121 (talk) 01:24, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Porsche 911 Turbo

The time is supposed to be the fastest between the manufactures time and independent verifactions. The fastest time listed for the Porsche 911 Turbo is 3.2 seconds by independent verafaction, but the manufactures time of 3.4 seconds was used instead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.212.209 (talk) 02:16, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

And the Porsche GT2 is missing too!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.146.202.178 (talk) 13:04, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

lower top speeds?

I would be more interested in much lower speeds. Does anybody know if data is available for this, say from zero to 30km/h or 20 mph or 10m/s? --Theosch (talk) 09:57, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Title change

There is no such thing as Fastest car by acceleration, it is a contradiction of terms. The correct term should be "The quickest car", which is Acceleration in a Period of Time, Or "Ranked by Acceleration" showing the ranking system is the value of acceleration. 209.233.5.226 (talk)JAG

Quarter mile time

I added this section by copying the 0-100km/h section as I think alot more people would want to know the quarter mile times of the fastest street legal cars over that of their 0-100km/h times. I prefer quarter mile times over 0-100km/h times always when I'm looking for fast cars. So can someone please delete all the copied times that I have not deleted and add in the quarter mile times instead, cheers. CartelCacique (talk) 14:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

You need to find the quarter mile times before adding the table. Simply copying it and asking someone else to produce the information is going to work, it is very confusing for the reader to see this page in an incomplete state. --Leivick (talk) 17:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually quarter mile times are listed at Quarter mile. No reason to duplicate the info here as acceleration and quarter mile times are only partially related. --Leivick (talk) 17:38, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't have to, I am improving the article by adding in the Quarter mile section but I don't want to spend the arduous effort and time referencing and placing the times in the article which is why I am asking for help. Daniel instead of deleting something which you know is an improvement simply because it is easier to do so than filling in the table, why don't you instead fill the table in for everyone. Cheers, CartelCacique (talk) 19:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

As I said, this is covered at Quarter mile. Acceleration and quarter mile times are not the same thing. --Leivick (talk) 19:56, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes you said this but does not mean it is true. Dragstrip is the article so I don't know why you keep linking the redirect. And it does not cover it as effectively as this article would. Dragstrip just gives examples of not only cars to give a basic understanding of the article and concept. Please do not continue to revert my improvement just because you like 0-100km times. Cheers, CartelCacique (talk) 17:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I copied the list of times from dragstip. This is better than just duplicating the list of 0-60 times and hoping someone will improve it for us. I still don't think it should be here, but at least it isn't as confusing as having two copies of the same list on one page and I am tired of revert warring with you. --Leivick (talk) 07:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I like this section however it needs updating, I believe the Lamborghini Aventador and SLS AMG would make appearances ahead of some of the other cars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.178.165.96 (talk) 13:48, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Audi Sport Quattro

The Audi Sport Quattro S1 with an acceleration of 0 to 100 km/h in 2.5sec. is missing. If you don`t believe it you can look it up on Wikipedia. Please add it

       Ahh you are are wrong it says 3.1 seconds

eh, the whole article is off, for example an s8 but no r8? the r8 v10 does 3.5 according to the manifacturer where the s8 is stuck on 4.2 195.241.251.222 (talk) 19:45, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Then find a reference and add it in. --Falcadore (talk) 01:00, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Ultima GTR/Kit Cars

Ultima GTR is a kit car and so technically is not a production car. Lot of the Ultima GTRs were tuned by the owner with bigger superchargers etc. So the time is not accurate The main question I guess is are kit cars allowed on the list AutoMoose (talk) 00:22, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

maxximus g-force production car?

I have serious doubts in this car being considered a production vehicle. I have not seen any reports or mention that the builders where considering making anymore and based upon the criteria of the list this car should be removed.

Agreed. Car and Driver says:

So . . . how much? When does production start? Well, it seems that when these guys say “one-of-a-kind,” they mean it. And as for that dream of owning the fastest car in the world? Well, dreams can be bought and sold, evidently. Although it was originally intended to be sold to McMahan, the G-Force is in the process of being sold to a foreign collector. So you can’t have it, and neither can we.

Other sources say the same. Perhaps someone can explain why it is a production car? Until then, it should go. Spotstubes (talk) 21:33, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Bugatti Veyron

The Bugatti Veyron 16.4 somehow got dropped from the list, it should be put back. WikiLoverr (talk) 22:46, 14 September 2009 (UTC) The link for the Bugatti Veyron's 2.4 second time never said it could do 2.4 seconds although I've heard 2.46. Also the link is a Buggati site rather then independent verification. - Steven Mitchell —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.201.8.250 (talk) 03:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Issues with the list

This list has changed a lot since I saw it several months ago, with notable cars missing. Where did the Ariel Atom and Saleen S7 go, for example? The Saleen is definitely a production car and the Atom is street legal at least in some of Europe.

Also, as another editor pointed out, the Porche 911 near the top does not properly show the fastest of the two times, and needs to be moved up the list.

74.128.201.242 (talk) 01:43, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, the definition of "Production" is varied depending on the place or what guidebook you're checking, but that's not new. I note the times are based on tests at a specific location? If so, then it'd be on the constructors to ship over one of their cars if they'd specifically like it tested, and Saleen really doesn't seem to like to lend or sell much to Europe which is why it lacks testing in any of the general international benchmarks. The Atom? ...The exoskeleton chassis might flag it in some palaces. The US-produced version is just a kit car, which puts some of it into question. Not saying it shouldn't count (it's far more a "normal" production car than some of the others), but the technicalities should at least have been discussed on the talk page.

That Factory Five Racing GTM in the 1/4mi I'd say is extremely dubious since it's from a SRS. The website literally talks of it as an affordable bolt-on for power, so it's modified and not production. If you want to go that off-the-wall, someone find some data on the ~1000hp Gemballa (Carrera) GT kit-- actually that's technically production since Gemballa has status similar to how Saleen does in the US, but produce too few. ...Orr the Top Gear modified CCX perhaps. ...And where's the Ferrari FXX? Ok, rambling over. This obviously needs clean up and some kind of standard on what's considered "production". Europe has precise laws for that where the US, not-so-much-so. ♪ daTheisen(talk) 18:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

1986 Ford ES200 Evolution

I have added this car once before when the list was dramatically altered and many many cars were removed, and it appears it has been removed again. The car had 25 production models which were all street legal and was listed in the Guinness Book of World Records at 3.07 seconds. Not really sure what more independent verification would be needed then Guinness World Records. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rkrostin (talk • contribs) 20:59, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Caparo T1

the Caparo T1 is said to have a 0-60 time of 2.5 sec, with twice the horsepower per ton as a veyron i think it should go in between the Veyron and the Ultimate Aero —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.101.25.235 (talk) 17:50, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Why no rally cars?

Group B rally cars were production vehicles (200 had to be made - more than some cars proposed for this page) and most were available for sale to the public (e.g. Metro 6R4, Peugeot 205 T16, Ford RS200). I'd suggest only listing the performance times of the production version, not the works rally version of the vehicle which were often tuned to a much higher level than was sold to the public. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.183.150.246 (talk) 18:58, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Rally cars were not made 200 but homologation models, these have very often much lower power figures.... --Typ932 ^T·C 20:33, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree, see section in first posting: "I'd suggest only listing the performance times of the production version, not the works rally version of the vehicle which were often tuned to a much higher level than was sold to the public." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.183.150.246 (talk) 10:10, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

non street legal cars

should non street legal track cars like the FXX and the Zonda R be on this list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.75.193.205 (talk) 00:37, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Ferrari Enzo

The time listed of 3.14 is its 0-60mph time. Therefore, this is its 0-96.5kph time. It's 0-62mph (100kph) time is closer to the 3.4 second range. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.63.191.17 (talk) 18:23, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Nissan GT-R Reversion

Someone had posted the Nissan GT-R as doing a 9.1 second quarter mile citing a performance modification website. These naturally do not count, so I changed it back to the previous number of 11.2Fireemblem555 (talk) 06:51, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

the 2013 gtr:     
   Top speed: 321km/h (200mph) est.
   0-60 mph time: 2.7 seconds
   0-130 mph time: 8.89 seconds
   1/4 mile time: 10.87 seconds @ 201km/h (125 mph)
   30-0 mph: 26 ft.
   60-0 mph: 106 ft.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sherwin090497 (talk • contribs) 05:10, 28 May 2012 (UTC) 

Tesla Roadster

Hello?? 2011 Tesla Roadster 0-60mph in 3.7 seconds. Add it and get up to speed please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.77.60 (talk) 21:43, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Acceleration

This page would need separate table for 0-100 km/h and 0-60 mph, these are not comparable times -->Typ932 ^T·C 06:01, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

McLaren F1

Why McLaren F1 is not in the list? It is (was) production and street legal car. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.70.154 (talk) 01:19, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Recent edit

This page does not requite cars to be street legal. Only to be completely stock and not altered in any way. Then why not add Formula One racing cars? Production cars implies street legality. --Falcadore (talk) 02:01, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Exactly, or TopFuel dragsters for that matter. IJB TA (talk) 05:52, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Removed inclusion of 1968 Plymouth because of unreliable source .....

The source for this information was a forum. Unless there is a more credible source(s), than this listing doesn't deserve to be on the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.16.113.3 (talk) 22:56, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Mustang Cobra Jet

Why isn't the Mustang Cobra Jet in this list? The only reason I can think of is that is not a street legal car, yet it is a production car that if you have the money, you can order from Ford and have it delivered to the nearest dealer. http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-racing/news/20775-adrl-supercar-racer-goes-zero-to-60-mph-in-152-seconds-in-a-production-car . 1.52 0-60 times. According to what I have read, it would qualify for the list, it is not a one off or prototype car, it is a special car, but it does come from Ford, and not from a tuner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.3.56.166 (talk) 18:16, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

According to the definition of production vehicle here on wikipedia, "The characteristics of a production vehicle or production car are mass-produced identical models, offered for sale to the public, and able to be legally driven on public roads." This car is not street legal due to its lack of airbags, lights, horn, etc. Pending further debate, I am removing it from the list.Underdog218 (talk) 03:29, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Why does no one care about distance in time?

Like say feet in 10 seconds? It's measurable now with GPS. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 09:55, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Production car definition

There is a discussion of the definition of a production car Talk:List of fastest production cars#Page protected/20 car limit - new discussion.

In particular, the question being considered:

• Is the restriction of have had 20 or more instances made currently being used by this list appropriate
• If not, what changes should be made to the definition

The list currently uses the same definition as the List of automotive superlatives:

In order to keep the entries relevant, the list (except for the firsts section) is limited to automobiles built after World War II, and lists superlatives for earlier vehicles separately. The list is also limited to production road cars that:

• are constructed principally for retail sale to consumers, for their personal use, and to transport people on public roads (no commercial or industrial vehicles are eligible);
• have had 20 or more instances made by the original vehicle manufacturer, and offered for commercial sale to the public in new condition (cars modified by either professional tuners or individuals are not eligible);
• are street-legal in their intended markets, and capable of passing any official tests or inspections required to be granted this status.

The alternative definition from this List of fastest cars by acceleration is:

This list includes full production cars only; concept, modified, very limited-production, and race cars of any kind are not considered. If an independent time becomes available, that time will be listed over the manufacturer's time regardless if the latter is quicker. NealeFamily (talk) 20:05, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Conclusion

The debate concluded with:

The closest any reliable source comes to a number to determine what is a production car is the FIA and its rules date from 1968. Guinness seems to be inconsistant and as it doesn't publish its rules, we can't tell. All of us accept that the 20 number is arbitrary, but until someone posts a substantive argument to the contrary that we can agree on - the 20 car minimum rule remains. The reason for this decision is because there is no consensus to change the rule. NealeFamily (talk) 20:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

There are now two published sources, Motoramic (Alex Lloyd) and Road and Track magazine on 24 Febraury 2014 (Alex Nunez), which have Guinness stating in one 50 cars and the other 30 cars of identical style and specification are required to qualify as a production car. NealeFamily (talk) 22:37, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Updates to a few entries

I updated the reference source for the Nissan GT-R ( a 2014 test ), which included the 0-60 as well as the 1/4 mile time. As per the rules, the independent test determines the 'Time' column entry, which has been corrected and un-italicized. I did just notice that in the 0-60 table the car is referenced as the Nissan GT-R R35, while the R35 designation is not included in the 1/4 mile time entry. I'll fix that as well.

I added a reference for the Ariel Atom V8 time, and changed the time value to italics to represent a manufacturer claim, per the listed rules.

I updated the Aero TT with an actual reference for 2.78 0-60. It is possible the newer 2010 version is faster, but I could not find a real reference for that yet.

I updated the Murcielago with an external verified reference in the correct column. Previously it was listed in the manufacturers column even though that was an independent test.

I added a reference for the Caterham 0-60.

Also, I am debating removing the 'Remac Concept One'. While it does appear it *will* be a production car with a limited run (88 cars), it is not actually available yet. The first shipments are not supposed to happen until 2014. Doesn't this mean it does not qualify for the list until that time?

UPDATE: Someone added the Caparo T1, but the reference was the wiki page, and that page reference was just a manufacture claim. The table was also not correctly formatted. I change the table to the correct format, as well as add a real third party reference. I suspect there might be a better reference but I could not find one. If anyone has one, please edit away. HOWEVER remember to follow the rules: Reference Reference Reference.. and no virtual simulators!

Sponaugle (talk) 18:15, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Dragtimes.com as a source

What do we think about using DragTimes.com as a source for independent 0-60 and quarter-mile times? It looks like it needs to be carefully policed, since the home page says, "Dragtimes is a database of 1/4 mile drag racing timeslips submitted by drag racing enthusiasts as well as testing done by DragTimes staff." I don't think we can consider enthusiast submissions to be authoritative. The "staff" tests might be more reputable, but do we consider them to be in the same class as the more established print and online media? It seems a bit dodgy when they wring out another 1/3 of a second in the 0-60 time of a car like the McLaren MP4-12C. Not inconceivable, though. Sacxpert (talk) 07:09, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

No, DON'T DO IT!!!!! That is copyright violation!!!!!! They get sued and arrested. 166.137.208.45 (talk) 22:59, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Is street legal part of the requirements? If so, please state it. Also remove Mustang Cobra Jet from #1

Hi, I'm new to this page, so forgive me if I'm misinterpreting the Talk page. But if one of the consensus requirements is that the cars need to be street legal in their intended market, then the Mustang Cobra Jet should be removed. The cited source says "there were only 50 2012 Mustang Cobra Jets produced and they are not street legal" Also, I'd suggest that whatever the criteria are for this page, they should be mentioned in the intro so the casual wiki reader knows about them. 108.192.134.103 (talk) 17:36, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

No stock Corvette ZR1 passes the 1/4 mile in 11.2 seconds.

No stock Corvette ZR1 has ever done a 10.74 @ 133.21, an 11.2 @ 130.5, or an 11.3 @ 131. The best ever time and trap speed for the ZR1 was 11.4 and 129.3. All those high 10's, 11.2's, 11.3's, and other crazy times were done by the drivers of modifed ZR1s. Motor Trend told us that the ZR1 which did an 11.2 was not stock. The Ford GT ran the same time at a similar trap speed (131.2 mph) and was not stock, either. They (again, Motor Trend) told one of us that they were adding nitrous in both cars (40 shot in the ZR1, and 120 shot in the GT). End of Story. 174.141.208.107 (talk) 09:16, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

You're right. No one can pass the quarter mile in a stock ZR1 anywhere less than 11.4 seconds. Average ZR1 drivers usually run 11.7's, to the slowest of 12.1's. Altimgamr (talk) 05:09, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

A 100% stock ZR1 will never run a 10-second quarter mile, guaranteed! The ZR1 might run the quarter mile in 11.1 seconds, but no less than that. It is no Ferrari Enzo or Porsche Carrera GT. Altimgamr (talk) 20:02, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

YouTube is not a reliable source of information

1) Race gas cannot be used on public roads!!!! Anything above the recommended/required fuel octane means not stock. How about putting 91 octane in an 87-recommended/required car? Not stock! 10 second 1/4 mile in a stock Z06 or ZR1? Automatically not stock (unless they're all-wheel-drive)! High 10's in a stock GT-R? Maybe, but not in magazine tests. 12's in a stock '90s sports car made in Japan? I think I know the answer! 9's in a stock MP4-12C or Aventador? I highly doubt that!

2) None of you knew that dragstrips automatically modify tires. They do! So, in fact, use dragstrip, personal, or unofficial videos only for entertainment, not for educational purposes. --166.137.191.31 (talk) 02:55, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

And the BP (bull-poop) continues...

You should add a Motor Trend source to the Ford GT's 11.2 @ 131.2 mph thing when referring to Motor Trend. Fastestlaps.com or anything else doesn't cut it.

Also, I've found some highly-dubious sources, such as strange videos and enthusiasts sites. The article sure does need some valley house cleaning. --198.228.217.146 (talk) 06:33, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Caparo T1 - is it a production car

Is the T1 a production car and if so on what basis? NealeFamily (talk) 00:46, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but only in Europe. --166.137.208.25 (talk) 04:37, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

What is the basis for assessing whether or not a car is production car in Europe - is there legislation or rules put out by the EU? NealeFamily (talk) 04:52, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

YouTube videos uploaded by customers

Are they reliable? I copied and pasted one on the article regarding the Corvette's 10.74, and I mentioned FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY. 166.137.208.15 (talk) 01:03, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Read WP:RELIABLE, WP:USERGENERATED in particular. A youTube video posted by a car owner (not by an official car testing organization or some other established expert in the field) cannot be considered a reliable source for the car's performance. We have no way of knowing if the car really was stock as claimed, or if the video was faked. I'm not saying that the car can't do what the video claims. I don't know. The source isn't good enough to put it in Wikipedia. If the stock car really can do as claimed you should be able to find reliable evidence to show it. Meters (talk) 01:40, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

He was talking about this video. Haha, yeah, you're right, the car was not stock. You should report that video as "spam", "stupid" or "liar". You might as well report it as copyright violation.

Or this! 198.228.217.149 (talk) 05:51, 28 February 2014 (UTC)