Talk:Dysgraphia

A Plea to Teachers

I hope that school teachers will read this page. Because from the many comments here it is very clear that you are failing to help us in many ways. We don't need your criticism, and we don't need to be humiliated for our lack of ability, we just need for you to be a little bit less ignorant and a lot more compassionate. The problem is real and coercing us won't make it go away. 71.35.162.190 (talk) 00:07, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I was humiliated for this when I was only 6-7 years old! Thank you, computer! Now I'm 22, and teachers STILL do it. They think I'm careless g, and yet I can draw and paint. Oh yeah. This was fun to grow up with undiagnosed... IQ? 127, reportcards? Summer school everysingleyear, baby... 74.166.44.177 (talk) 15:07, 14 August 2010 (UTC)Aidget

It is easier when the teachers learn that it doesn't effect your intelligence. Most of my teachers stopped reading my written work after I aced their first three tests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.179.178.64 (talk) 03:52, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, teachers seem to totally ignore this disability, while they are able to find every dys* for asocial and criminal students with ease. One ends up spending hours on calligraphy lessons, which improve nothing and just take your life away. Been there , done that... Also there is great deal of discrimination when it comes to judging your work. I've been in several schools, and i've met same discrimination among various teachers. symptoms - your perfectly fine work, which can score pretty high when printed out even with dot matrix printer and with smallest font - can be rejected on firth sight, with large red note HANDWRITING! or 'I WILL NOT READ THAT!' even if it took you few hours to patiently 'cleanly' re-write it...

Personally i've work-around this by just using computer or typewriter. Some schools, teachers and exams do not accept that though, and one has to do special tricks to 'be read' - i.e. writing your work quickly in your regular handwriting, then re-write it 'clean' using at least capital letters, or carefully writing each letter , pausing in-between each of them. this is tiresome, and often gives you extra time penalty, but then one has to somehow accept the fate disability of this kind 'makes you less valuable for industry' and it's your duty to train methods of overcoming it. Worst exams are those which do not accept any kinds of re-writing, i.e. one has to race with others with time and no 'working copy' is accepted - first sheet which is written is took away. those usually happen on orthographic tests in Poland, so called 'dyktando' .

I have no references which could aid in improving article in this field, but i think this part is worth extending , i.e. at least with short note about fact that education system is often unwilling to recognize this disability and offers ineffective methods of coping with it / and or quoting references coming from systems which deal with such disabilities better.

Dysgraphics also get trouble in banks and other systems which require confirmation by signature, as their signature is not 'stable' - at least that is in my case. Hopefully my bank seems to somehow recognize the problem and besides i had to place several signature samples out of which they somehow extracted the 'valid' confirmation sections, i had no extra trouble. I guess there are some kind of procedures for such cases which could be quoted in the article and act as reference. 83.18.229.190 (talk) 21:20, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Homophones

I was diagnosed with Dysgraphia many years ago and one thing that I notice quite often that is not discussed in this article is the lack of distinction between homophones, is there anything we can say about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.100.87.22 (talk) 16:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Surely the issue with homophones is more a 'dyslexia' spectrum disorder? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grendelous (talk • contribs) 08:59, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

I have seen refrinces to "strange cramps" but nothing much more, i have not really seen dysgraphia in many books anyways! And EVERY dysgraphic i have talked to, i mean had a long talk with has said... yeah it does hurt, but i thought it was just hand cramps. then i ask them, do other cramps feel like that? and they say no. Besides information about dysgraphia is offten just wrong, why shouldn't a bunch of people WITH it oppions count more then "exsperts" who have not done much resurch about it asumptions!

So that is what i think and if you don't like it you will hurt my feelings?

oh and it's REALLY cool to hear from some one who has a PHD and dysgraphia by the way! Actuly it's good to hear from ALL of you!!! To see that your out there!

-Elysia--elysiacw

I have the pain symptom too though I guess I am quite a mild case. I have always hated handwriting, because it always turned out very bad-looking and illegible. Mind that I have a PhD degree (thanks to the keyboards! ;-)) --MirandaSpider 13:08, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I got it, so I should know what it is :P Pellaken 02:05, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have an unusually severe[ case, with no other learning disabilities or neurological disorders. :P--Verxumus 02:13, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I likewise have it David Formosa is dysgraphic please excuse spelling errors 07:25, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm just wondering if there are any references for the pain while writing thing. I'm dysgraphic as well and experience that, but I've never actually heard about it being a symptom before. There should be some sort of reference for it other than personal experience. --Matteh (talk) 08:15, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, I am dysgraphic, and I can provide another testimony to the pain symptom. - Pyrosim 23:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I can't stop holding pencils very tightly, which I think is what causes the pain. I sometimes flip or skip words and letters if I don't concentrate completely. I actually read some people think in words, but for me it takes energy to translate all that stuff of the mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.223.118.212 (talk) 14:43, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I am Dysgraphic and I have significant pain while writing. It seems to be related to the fact that (unless I concentrate on relaxing) I slowly tense up on my pencil while writing. This results in muscle pain.

Also, I did not see any mention of the fact the Dysgraphia runs in families DysgraphicProgrammer 21:00, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I too am dysgraphic, and I too thought the pain was normal.. but it doesnt feel like muscle pain; I dont really know how to describe it... but its not an ache, its not a sting, and its not what most would define as a "pain". We caught it early, so the motor problems arent as bad, but I have this really wierd shaking when I'm trying to hold something like a screwdriver for a long ammount of time. Writing is extremely hard, but I do not have the spelling errors of others who have been diagnosed with this problem. I am a freshman in highschool, and I have known I have had dysgraphia since 4th grade, although I only knew that the pain was different since I wikipedia'd it this past week

nor do I, that definately needs to be added in, I have been diagnosised dysgraphic sincee Iwas 8 and I'm amazed at this page, I never knew it was abnormal to have the pain while writing. I always thought everyone did. anyways, what about the non-writing related symptoms such as the organizational problems?

I am dysgraphic too! A few people in my family have dysgraphia but other then that I have encountered few other dysgraphics. I am so glade that there are so many people that say that there dysgraphia, not because I am happy that your dysgraphia it's just that I make me feel less alone. I feel the pain too, it's not exactly muscle pain though, it doesn’t feel like every other muscle pain I have ever had, it's different! - Elysiacw

I'm also dysgrapic, and I've noticed the minor pain while writing. I also always thought it was normal, and that I'd just been writing for too long. I must have a minor case of the pain itself, since it's usually a minor annoyance (alibet a very effective, distracting one) and only occurs if I've been writing a lot of material at once or for an extended period of time.--Vince Skrapits 22:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I get the cramps too. Until recently, I thought it was just normal strain. Umlautbob 16:20, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Either this aritcle is wrong, or I had dysgraphia when I was six, but grew out of it as I grew older. I remember getting hand pains that I thought were normal and from holding the pencil too tight and general motor dysgraphia, but it was fairly mild and bad handwriting runs in my family anyway; with the exception of one of my siblings, who has always had an extremely odd writing grip. Even though I have very good handwriting now, I still prefer typing because it's faster. NOTE: I also have extremely mild NVLD and so do some other dysgraphics in my family so I think the two sets of symptoms might be related. (209.68.148.253 15:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

yeah I am dysgraphic too, The pain while writing is annoying as hell, thankfully I can type almost everything except for notes , and I just don't do the notes because of the pain, and how it is hardly legible at the end. My spelling is also so bad that I frequently baffle spell-check (primarily the Microsoft word one), which forces me to just use a shorter simpler words , which hurts on essay grades.can anyone just in this paragraph I had to get rid of the words "irritateing" with "annoying", "Forunately" with "thankfully", and a bunch more. the only one I found is copy-pasting the words I cant spell into Google, and using it's built in spell check which works so much better, or just guessing 20 times until it is close enough. I even have to edit most my instant-messages in order to make them understandable. Does anyone know of some better solution to this?, like a better spell-check?

I'm really, really glad I found this article a year or two ago, because I'd always known that it wasn't normal for my arm to hurt when I was writing, but never attributed it to dysgraphia, and I was getting really, really frightened that I was developing carpal tunnel syndrome. Now I'm just really glad that there's nothing wrong with my but my laughably poor attempts to write anything acceptable. Then again, if I had CTS instead of dysgraphia, I would have actually been able to pass 6th grade science, in which my teacher had an "if I can't read it, I can't grade it" policy, but gave us a very strict time limit and required we write both in cursive and in pen. Obviously, it was hell for a dysgraphic.--147.9.239.140 (talk) 19:15, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Most people have heard of dyslexia, but very few have heard of dysgraphia and are often confused when I try to tell them that is what I have, so I often gloss over it and just say I'm dyslexic but it only affects my writing. This Wikipedia article is on target and does a very good job of explaining it. One of the things that caused me to drop out of college was being required to hand write in a lab notebook. I'm very good at composition, but the mechanics of writing are beyond me (also had difficulty learning how to hold a fork and spoon), can't spell words without difficulty. I frequently reverse the letters. I was never able to do cursive writing it was just too exhausting and slow, am able to print but not very legible. keyboards and speech recognition have really saved the day for me, even though I am of above average intelligence, I could not function without being able to type and without having a spelling checker to tell me when I got the letters reversed yet again... which happened about 5 times when typing this paragraph despite being careful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.160.103.40 (talk) 02:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I found out a few years ago that as I kid I was diagnosed with dysgraphia. I always thought I just had extraordinarily bad handwriting. I had pain in my palms when writing a lot or very fast but I thought it was just because I held the pen so tightly. Also in 90% cases I write only in UPPERCASE as I find that much easier and when I have to write "normal" I find myself having to concentrate very hard as not to screw up. Its only after I read this article that I found out what dysgraphia actually is and it made so many things make sense. In school I often had problems because of my handwriting. I found that I either wrote too slow and didn't manage to write everything down, or I wrote fast and horrible. Because of this I spent a lot of time "practicing" writing and today I'm not too bad, still have to concentrate when I want to write fast though. In a way I'm glad I didn't know I was dysgraphic until a few years ago because maybe it would have given me an excuse to stop trying to get better. On the other hand, I wouldn't have felt like an idiot sometimes when I couldn't finish writing something on time or when my teacher couldn't understand my assignments. I know that dyslexia was recognized in my school and teachers knew about children who had been diagnosed with it, apparently it wasn't the same with dysgraphia. Recktray (talk) 20:51, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

George Its nice to see that the symptoms i have suffered all my life are so specific in other people as well. I can read and have always have with no problems, i can do math muliplication and division as fast in my head as most people can type it on a calculator. I have a bad short term memory but a long term memory like a book, i can remember long numbers colours and sequences with no problem but struggle with words like ( the = hte or eth, and= nda most of the time. ) I can spell no problem, but i can not always see when i have made a mistake, usualy not untill i touch the page. for some reason, eth reads the, untill i notice its wrong. I suffer pain down my arm when wrighting and i have warn a permanant welk on the skin of my finger. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazy council uk (talk • contribs) 15:14, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Genetic?

Any references on it being genetic? Both me and my brother have it, but noone else in either side of the family does.

in reply: we live in a very toxic environment, far more then at any other time in history. remember, the environment is also "inherited". But there is something even more insidious going on. take a look at this page about cord clamping [1] and especially this article about brain damage caused by routine birth practices [2]

Fine Motor Skills

i want to know if it has anything to do with playing the guitar. because i have been diagnosed with disgraphea but i shred the guitar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.36.25 (talk) 22:56, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

that is the thing about it. it is not necissarily a problem with all fine motor skills. I play french horn, which requires a lot of fine control, but i am dysgraphic. it only affects my writing. i just have a problem making shapes when i am processing them as symbols with meaning. it feels like, in my head, there should be a connection between the parts of my brain that think about letters and the part that controls my hand, but it has been severed. i know that is probably not how it works, but that is the best way of describing it. and as for it being genetic, my mother, grandfather, and cousin all have it.

I am glad too that this pag exists. I think Dysgraphia is often inaccurately described as a "learning disability". In the case of adults its not. I have had good writing up till the age of 45 (I am 59). When it first set in, I was very alarmed at what was happening (not knowing what was happening) and practiced my handwriting to improve it without much success. Obviously, this was very distressing and I didnt know the condition existed till today when I read about it on the Wikipedia. I found that when I use an awkward grip on the pen (holding the pen between the lowest joint of my index finger and my thumb)my writing and comfort improved, but still very untidy. When I write with a marker pen on a whiteboard, my writing is perfectly normal and I dont get fatigue. I cant explain this. It could be that the the way I hold the marker which is very different to a pen. I am most interested in reading other sufferers' experience with this strange condition and I hope medical science will turn its attention to finding a standard cure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike2009a (talk • contribs) 23:35, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

disgraphia..

me as well. im suffering from disgraphia too. my right hand always failed in writing im begun to noticed it when im on my high school days but now im an employee, few people only know about this. i know it's very rare. i also get fracture in my right arm when im 12 yrs old and its very worse, my bones broke and it gives the stress im feeling now it gives big contribution in my writing disability. what i get is 16 stitches and i know im not normal anymore like my friends its very disavantage for me. I tried to practice my left hand in writing but when im already get it i get bone fractured again in my left wrist while playing basketball. i get 8 stitches and a titanium metal inside to support the bones it is more worse than my right hand i cannot lift any more heavier than 7 lbs., i cannot use any on my hands anymore,it backs to zero again and again. sometimes destiny is bad. i hate writing. when im child i had a potential in drafting and drawing many say that i will be best in that field someday, but it lost and gone now...i had no potential anymore since both of my arms are injured. thanks God. it makes my life like hell. -heavy arms(philippines)

sorry to hear this... depending on what type of work you are doing, your best bet could be to get a speech recognition system. If you want to do drawing, most of it is done by computer now any way, using CAD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.162.190 (talk) 23:54, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Female dysgraphic

Being a backwords peep is hard enough as it is, it's even harder when your alone! so it's nice to see you all... So feel free to email me you guys, i think you can, maybe not? if not i will just post again..

i am not spell cheeking this!!! wahooo!

Any way of checking if you ahve dysgraphia?

I'm begging to suspect I have this, any aid in letting me know for sure?

I went to my doctor because of the pain I felt after writing, who then sent me to a specialist physiician lady, who told me about dysgraphia. Maybe you could do the same? I live in England, however, so this could be different to where you are. Sorry if that was pointless and obvious, and good luck. Voici 19:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I have dysgraphia it was noticed really early on because my mom has it, so I was able to find out that not only do I have Dysgraphia, but also Dyscalculia, Dyslexia and ADD. Needless to say that school has been hard, but I was in a very good school system so I received help from an early start. I had really bad pain in elementry school, but they went away once I reached fith grade, either that or I just got used to them. I am just now in high school and things are not getting easier but I have the feeling they never will. oh well. It's cool to know that there are more people out there that have this problem. Ugahbooness 22:52, 24 November 2006 (UTC)Ugahbooness

Symptoms

I know someone who has dysgraphia. She can read and understand perfectly well, and she can write--in the sense of composition; in other words, she can dictate a letter or exam answer perfectly. But she cannot mechanically spell or write, be it by hand or on a keyboard. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.132.233.128 (talk) 00:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC).

I think I have this as well. I'm currently law school, and I've always scored in the 99% percentile on intelligence tests. I could dictate an exam answer perfectly, and I've won spelling bees... BUT I can't write to save my life. No matter what I do, the words don't seem to sound right. A paragraph of this length generally takes me about 15-20 minutes to write because I can never choose the right words. I can't stand it. No feelings of pain... just difficulty stringing words together.

advertiseing

This seems far to much like advertisements to me, especially the first part, however I dont want to get rid of it personally , because someone allways blames me for vandalism.

"People who struggle with symptoms of dysgraphia usually benefit from vision therapy. Seventy percent of what a child learns in school is processed through the visual system. Even a minor visual processing problem will interfere with a child or adult performing to their potential and could cause symptoms of dysgraphia.

Symptoms of Vision Problems:

Avoidance of near work

Frequent loss of place

Omits, inserts, or rereads letters/words

Confuses similar looking words

Failure to recognize the same word in the next sentence

If you or your child experiences any of the above, P.A.V.E.® (Parents Active for Vision Education) recommends a learning related vision examination by a behavioral optometrist.

Optometric visual training, frequently called vision therapy or VT, is that part of optometric care devoted to developing, improving and enhancing people's visual performance. Clinical studies on the use and effectiveness of vision therapy are available.

Any struggling student should have a complete evaluation by a behavioral optometrist. Testing should be done at distance and nearpoint to assure that both eyes are working together as a team. Vision is more than clarity, and is a complex combination of learned skills, including tracking, fixation, focus change, binocular fusion and visualization. When all of these are well developed, children and adults can sustain attention, read and write without careless errors, give meaning to what they hear and see, and rely less on movement to stay alert.

To find a qualified Behavioral Optometrist, please visit the (COVD) and the (OEP) websites.

1.College of Optometrists in Vision Development (COVD) This organization serves as the certifying body for Doctors in the Optometric specialty called Behavioral/Developmental/Rehabilitative Optometry. If a doctor chooses, he/she may apply for COVD fellowship after successfully completing a Residency program in Vision Therapy or Binocular Vision or after three years as a Behavioral Clinician. Fellowship is difficult to obtain and is only granted after interviews, publishing and knowledge testing is completed and accepted by a committee. Fellows are certified specialists in vision therapy. If you would like to go directly to their membership directory, click here. http://www.covd.org/membersearch.php

2. Optometric Extension Program (OEP) Foundation The OEP Foundation is an international non-profit organization that serves the educational needs of behavioral optometrists by providing continuing education credits and provides public information about vision care. If you would like to go directly to their referral list of doctors, click here. http://www.healthy.net/oep/OEPSearch.htm"

/end previous comment.

Are these conclusions widely accepted? It could be a very useful section, if the opinions can be documented with more external links. Also, shift the tone to neutral point of view(NPOV) and express it an encyclopedic manner. For length purposes, is moving it to an article stub appropriate? Nickalh50 (talk) 03:30, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Tags added to section titled "Learning related vision problems"

Hi,

I added the POV and Unreferenced section tags to this section, but could have added several more — I just stopped after those two. There are several things objectionable in this section:

• No citations to support claims {"People who struggle with symptoms of dysgraphia usually benefit from vision therapy")
• Includes specific recommendations ("Any struggling student should have a complete evaluation by a behavioral optometrist.")
• Uses 2nd person ("you"), which is unencyclopedic ("If you or your child experiences any of the above ...")
• No citations for statements of (supposed) fact ("When all of these are well developed, children and adults can sustain attention, read and write without careless errors, give meaning to what they hear and see, and rely less on movement to stay alert.")

In addition, the use of Vision Therapy as a reading or writing intervention is highly controversial. At a minimum, this section should include a statement about the controversy, perhaps including which types of organizations endorse vision therapy and which vehemently assert that using the therapy as an intervention for reading and writing is not supported by research.

Best,

Rosmoran 00:16, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

References needed

I think this article needs quite a bit of work in terms of references throughout--Vannin 06:21, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I concur, especially the reference to the AlphaSmart product in the treatment. Seems like a cheap attempt at advertisement to me - I'd suggest that this be removed unless a reference indicating that the AlphaSmart is uniquely qualified for use in dysgraphia in a school setting is inserted. 74.77.128.175 (talk) 18:32, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Our intelligence is measured relatively to others in our societies. If one cannot perform a task being done by most people, he or she shouldn't engage in professions requiring writing, for ultimately - They are not intelligent enough! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.219.131.6 (talk) 07:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

understanding

Hi I am dysgraphic as well and I would like to say that I am glad that such a page exists because I have found that dysgraphia is the most unheard of learning disability I was picked on by my teachers now I am only suggesting but I think a section on how hard it is to identify for children because I am in year 10 and I only just found out I was dysgraphic last year and I suffered at primary school for 7 years because my teachers just thought I was stupid and that my handwriting could be cured by extra work thanks for reading Kyle25157 (talk) 08:12, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm unsure as to why dysgraphia is classified as a "learning disability," as it in no way impairs the ability to learn, nor is it necessarily related to any inability to learn. Any "learning disability" due to dysgraphia is purely a result of thoughtless (in)action on the part of educators and/or parents. While dyslexic-dysgraphics may additionally be deficient at spelling (hardly a category of "disability" unique to anyone), all three dysgraphic types are perfectly capable of achieving written-speech through typing, if allowed to do so. Hand-written documents are largely deprecated, so I see no great need for educators to focus on one's handwriting deficiencies.

That aside, dysgraphia is perfectly easy to identify in children who are past an age where handwriting skills should have been acquired. The issue is not identification, the issue is that dysgraphia is treated now as left-handedness was treated in the dark ages: torture the child hard enough, and you'll "fix" them. As a motor-dysgraphic, I should know. Grades suffered for years before I was allowed to submit typed work, and they continued to suffer whenever I wasn't. It was a relief when I finally found out that I wasn't "lazy" just because I found it difficult to hand-write a paper. 68.166.26.173 (talk) 12:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I know what you mean. its not a learning disability, because i have no trouble learning. i was identified very late, and elementary school was horrible. teachers telling me to 'just write better', giving me repetitive excercizes that did nothing but hurt me, and they thought i was stupid because i didnt do any of my work, because it was all written. everthing i did do they got mad at me for because they couldnt read it and it was really short (i used to sit for ages trying to think about how to write the shortest answers possible to my questions) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.29.31.126 (talk) 22:27, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

At a minimum it interferes with the educational process, or the learning environment, as it makes it difficult for the teacher to get feedback on the skills and understanding of students. When the physical act of writing with a pencil is the only issue, typing can help bypass that but only after the typing skill has been acquired and the typing instrument is available (a computer at home doesn't help in an in-class activity). So for that student it is a "learning disability" for some educational situations, even if the student has no difficulty with the mind-related meanings of "learning". -- SEWilco (talk) 01:10, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi, i am a dyslexic-dysgraphic. i have experienced some problems in english classes, picking things up a little slower, and not only because of my writing. i still get the teachers, not making fun of me, but something similar. i'm a senior in highschool, and last year, my english teacher actually laughed at me and called me a liar. i proceeded to fail that class, despite my best efforts. the only ways i have found around it are typing, and brevity. i have been know to write a 2 page essay in 3/4 of a page, and gotten an A. as for my handwriting, when i'm writing quickly, it gets all smooshed up and very illegible. when i write for extended periods of time, i start to feel "the pain", which i attributed to the length of writing time, unitll today. my spelling skills are atrocious, even though i have a rather wide vocabulary. its reassuring to know that i'm not the only one with this problem. i hope everyone of us is able to get some kind of recognition/help in the public eye some day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.11.174.53 (talk) 06:08, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Dubious sources and example image

I see two problems with this article:

1. The quality of its sources is below average, and they don't entirely support what the article states. Sources range from brief dictionary definitions (which don't support the details in the article) to some random website from a school psychologist, which is not peer-reviewed. The best source is from NINDS, but it's way shorter and less detailed than Wikipedia's claims.
2. The example picture was taken by a Wikipedian and shows her own handwriting. It doesn't show anything worse than poor handwriting. Many doctors have terrible handwriting and don't suffer from dysgraphia. As it is, we have to take this Wikipedian at her word. A picture from a reputable medical site would be a better option.

201.231.81.53 (talk) 02:26, 13 May 2011 (UTC)