Talk:Anarchism and veganism

Sources?

From my cursory reading of the sources included on this page it appears to me the only source which actually uses the term is Wadham who self-applies it, and Dominick who invented it. None of the other sources actually say anything about "veganarchism." I'm not sure this is enough to warrant a WP article, prove me wrong? Kellen^T 11:26, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, is it enough for someone to claim to be both vegan and anarchist for them to be labeled "veganarchist" or do they actually have to claim the term? The examples in the 'convictions' section seem to be people who are vegans and anarchists, but not necessarily people who would "perceive both philosophies to be essentially the same" or see the "ideology as a combined theory." Kellen^T 15:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Am just getting round to putting in a couple of things from the culture, a cd released by a band features the veganarchist symbol as a main cover and also a couple of veganarchist cookbooks (just to put into a list). Admittedly its limited at the moment, but shortly I'll be skimming books so that I can backup the page with the philosophical footing of veganism and anarchism (and hopefully will find another reference or two for veganarchism and veganarchists which I know I've read before), as there is plenty of discussion on the topics combined. More so discussing "vegan anarchism" rather than "veganarchism" however, hence the redirection of the term. I'll change the first sentence to make that a bit clearer though.

Just to confirm; the term has to be self-applied to be applied (either seperately or combined). This is similar to say Anarcho-communists, whether they describe themselves as anarchist communists or the former is not relevant. The idea of them being combined terms, is merely that when believing in two political theories, you must combine them both to make up an overall political opinion, whether doing so consciously or not (for those who do not see them as the same). Also, its not just Dan who has used the term, but also Veganarchy.net, another few blogs and in a communique from the G20 riots, as well as what was mentioned above. A little bit of time and I'll be able to improve. Hope that makes sense and is ok. - ThompsonFest 14:08, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I have pretty much never heard this term used, outside of Wikipedia. I mean, Propagandhi are cited as "veganarchists" because they're vegans and anarchists... but then they're also feminists and pro-queer, amongst lots of other things. Hand-picking these two and applying them willy-nilly isn't really helpful, and I don't see the justification for that bit... SetaLyas (talk) 23:30, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Linking and quotes

This article is horribly over linked. Firstly we should only link to an article on the first mention of the linked term. Further mentions should not be linked. Secondly, we don't have to link to every single word that contains an article in its title. So, for example, consider the paragraph:

A final comparison made by Brian A. Dominick between interpersonal relations and human-animal relations is the adult treatment of young people, children and the elderly, further claiming that in each case the oppressed is seen as feeble and incompetent, in an ageist manner rooted in adultocracy; a notion that adults possess a certain responsibility not found in the aged or young. Dominick concludes that like animals, those oppressed by ageism are treated as objects, exploited whenever possible and rarely granted respect by adult humans.

None of these links add anything to the article.

Finally, we have to be very careful with using colour quotes in articles, as they lead to POV problems. The two quotes in this article are from non-reliable sources (including the lyrics of a song from a marginally notable band.) I would propose both be removed. Rockpocket 17:47, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Have removed most of the links (apart from a few that I think are relevant) from that paragraph, hope it looks better. Which two quotes were you referring to? I have changed the propagandhi lyric reference to there website which includes the lyrics. They may not seem that notable, but if they are on wikipedia they must be. Which other quote were you refrencing? - ThompsonFest 20:19, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Individuals

Looking at the sources provided for the various individuals described as "veganarchists", I can't see that term used, either by the individuals themselves or by reliable third parties, to describe them. We have them described as eco-terrorists, green anarchists and vegans but we are in WP:SYN territory to use these descriptions as support. Even "self-proclaimed by SHAC prisoner Dan Wadham" doesn't actually self-proclaim. Its an anonymous contributor to Infoshop that describes him as an "veganarchist". This obviously leaves us with a WP:BLP issue. Could someone, presumably ThompsonFest, provide a reliable source that explicitly uses this term to describe these individuals. If not, they all have to go, I'm afraid. Rockpocket 18:06, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Culture and music

I have moved the following section here for discussion. The problems is as follows: Nowhere (with the sole exception of a listings page) are any of these entities described as "veganarchists". There are no reliable sources provided establishing notability. A number of points simply list shops or websites selling things. Myspace and Amazon are not a reliable sources for anything other than Myspace and Amazon.

Are there any reliable sources that describe any of these as notable cultural aspects of "veganarchism" ? Rockpocket 18:23, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

On Hello Bastards myspace page and Punk Oi UK they clearly state they are "veganarchists", see their headline and this poster which is on their page. The other bands and book are acredited by dual sources confirming their beliefs in veganism and anarchism, thus veganarchism.

Apart from what I mentioned, I think Virus' album cover is pretty notable - its the Veganarchy symbol, it couldn't be mistaken for anything else, and the source is again from a website non-myspace/amazon. The myspace sources are used if backed up by another. - ThompsonFest - 19:51, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

The Punk Oi UK lists is a listing page, which is not an acceptable indicator of notability (see WP:BAND exclusions, "Works comprising merely trivial coverage, such as articles that simply report performance dates"). As I stated before, Myspace is not a reliable source. You state: The other bands and book are acredited by dual sources confirming their beliefs in veganism and anarchism, thus veganarchism. Did you read WP:SYN? because you have just described a classic example of it. Moreover, you need to show these are notable examples, not just examples. Virus' use of the symbol may be relevant, but you have provided no sources showing their notability. Rockpocket 19:15, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Culture

• In 2007, Another Dinner is Possible: More Than Just a Vegan Cookbook was released by Active Distribution and the Anarchist Teapot. Promoting both veganism and anarchism within cooking, the book raises funds for Brighton Anarchist Black Cross.

• Roots of compassion and Buzzbox Records sell a patch that reads "Veganarchist - No meat, no milk, no masters".

• Roter shop, a website in Germany, sell the veganarchy symbol on badges.

Music

“ But you cannot deny that meat is still murder. Dairy is still rape. And I'm still as stupid as anyone, but I know my mistakes. I have recognized one form of oppression, now I recognize the rest. - Propagandhi lyric ”

• In August 2007, Dorset based anarcho-punk band Virus released 'Unacceptable Noise Levels. The album is distributed by Active Distribution and features the veganarchy symbol on the front cover. The band also use the symbol as part of their logo.

• Propagandhi are an active Canadian veganarchist band supporting animal liberation, anarchist causes and vegan lifestyles.

• Hello Bastards are a London based straight edge veganarchist crust-punk band.

• Active Slaughter are an active veganarcho-punk band from London.