Talk:Paul the Apostle

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Removed Paragraph

I removed the following, as Paul did NOT write Ephesians.

"It is evident from the frequency of Paul's counsel on marriage and family that he placed great importance on the subject. Paul exhorts the women in the Ephesian branch of the church to submit themselves to their own husbands (literally, become subject or obedient to), as they would to the Lord, comparing the husband and the family to Christ and the Church. (See Eph. 5.) But he also charges the husbands to love their wives (see Eph. 5:25) as their Savior loved the church, so that they might sanctify and perfect their families through love. Paraphrasing one of the great commandments—to love one's neighbor as oneself—Paul says, "So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself." (Verse 28.) A husband is not to rule as a tyrant over his wife but is to preside in love. (See verse 33."

There has been so much good scholarship done on Paul that it is disappointing to see such examples found all over the New Testament pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.233.138 (talk) 03:47, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Plenty of scholars still accept Pauline authorship of Ephesians; its very much up in the air. I am reinserting this paragraph. Carl.bunderson (talk) 03:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Quoting "The Harper Collins Study Bible" (1993) "Marked differences in style, phrasing, and viewpoint between this Letter and the seven unquestionably authentic Pauline Letters have cast significant doubt on Pauline authorship of Ephesians. It is more likely that a disciple of Paul wrote the Letter in Paul's name, probably after the apostle's death." I will, again, remove the paragraph.

Removed More

What I removed here hardly even makes sense, nor does it even sound like an encyclopedia at all. Paul may never have married in the first place, and it seems like a fairly obvious conclusion one can make from the unquestionably Pauline epistles. The following is completely unnecessary, is based on no scholarship, and instead on the most questionable and preposterous speculation.

"What sense would these statements make if they came from an unmarried man? In view of all that Paul has said on marriage in 1 Corinthians, it is quite unlikely that the Corinthians would accept his epistle and his arguments if he had been divorced or separated from a wife. The message of 2 Corinthians 7, however, is that the first epistle was accepted and many Saints repented. " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.233.138 (talk) 03:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Removed Stil More

Paul did not write either Timothy or Titus. Accordingly, I removed the following in its entirety.

"Finally, in Paul's last epistles, which were written to Timothy and Titus, he places further emphasis on the desirability of marriage. In listing the qualities necessary for a bishop, Paul includes being married (see 1 Tim. 3:2) and being a good leader over his house: "For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?" (1 Tim. 3:5; cp. Titus 1:5–9). Even those called "deacons" in that day (the Greek literally means "one who serves" or a "helper") were to be married and have orderly households. (See 1 Tim, 3:10–13.)

The evidence of Paul's writings leads to the conclusion that he not only tolerated marriage among the saints, but encouraged and exhorted them to marry and bear children. He indicated that marriage is an essential part of the gospel framework, and asserted that one of the signs of apostasy in the last days would be teachings against marriage. (See 1 Tim. 4:1–3.) Certainly Jesus was foremost in importance to Paul, just as he should be in the hearts of men today, and on occasion Paul had to remind men called to the ministry to be fully dedicated to the Lord's work. Nevertheless, Paul understood and taught that in the presence of the Lord, the man will not be without the woman, neither the woman without the man."

Paul and marriage is a worthy subject, but it should not be too long. Paul did not tell women to subject themselves to their husbands as the authors of Timothy and Titus did. Paul saw no distinction between man or woman, a distinction which the pseudonymous authors of Timothy and Titus later do not make. Compare , for instance, Colossians 3:11 (which Paul wrote), and Corinthians 12:13 (which he did not write).

Someone should dig up that quote because I forget where it is, about Peter being married but Paul saying he wished others could be like him and not marry. I can't remember where it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.233.138 (talk) 03:57, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

"I removed the following, as Paul did NOT write Ephesians."

"Paul did not write either Timothy or Titus."

As this appears to be the justification for the removal of this text, I find myself severely questioning your contributions. Make no mistake- there is a problem with these paragraphs, but it is one of possible original research. Your own cited reasons have no place here, because they concede to only one point of view, and not even one which is of any great majority or unanimity. I think that the editors who watch this page should look over the text because the phrasing is questionable and the sources provided are insufficient for interpretive analysis of the verses is question (a secondary source supporting the view should be cited); the reason you cite is invalid and is completely unacceptable.--C.Logan (talk) 07:04, 3 February 2008 (UTC)