Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Carfiend

User:Carfiend

Suspected sockpuppeteer

Carfiend (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Suspected sockpuppets

Gravitor (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Report submission by ScienceApologist 01

25, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Evidence

These two users act in tandem to avoid 3RR and have single purpose accounts for articles related to Apollo Moon landing hoax accusations.

Comments

They often act together (and remain silent during the same time periods), their attitude and writing styles are identical, they are both contrary and disruptive, they both accuse everyone else of what they do (i.e. making significant changes without consensus and ignoring requests for useful discussion), and they both write on only one subject, namely the alleged Apollo "hoax". Wahkeenah 01:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

This tired accusation has been made before. A checkuser was performed, and the admin confirmed what I originally knew, which is that I am not the same user as Carfiend. It is true that we seem to share an interest in the Moon landing hoax, and that I often find myself agreeing with Carfiend, and reverting attempts by a bunch of users who act in tamdem to insert their POV into that series of articles. This is the latest of a series of administrative harassment activities that have not been upheld by admins. Gravitor 01:41, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Consider the edit history of the two: Carfiend Gravitor. Carfiend made 25 edits in 6/06 and then hundreds of edits 7/06 through 9/06. Gravitor also made edits 7/06 through 9/06. Then both stopped editing (after the RfC for one of them, I think) until 2/07, when both of them started editing again. Their POV seems to be the same. Bubba73 (talk), 01:43, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

The editing periods you refer to, iirc, correspond to particularly egregious attacks on the neutrality of the articles in question by one or more of the SA/Wahkeenah/Branson/Lunahkod/Numbskull sock/meatpuppets that act in concert and have very similar editing styles. The fact is, that when two or more users are interested in a topic, and share an agenda to make the article neutral, their edits are going to resemble each other somewhat. Take the edits of Wahkeenah and Bubba, for example, and you will find very many identical edits. Gravitor 01:48, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

If you consider (these are slow) Wahkeenah and me, you will see that he has 20,000 edits on 4,000 pages and I have 10,000 edits on 2,000 pages, and the only ones that overlap are a few dealing with the landing hoax accusation articles. Both of us are far from "one topic" editors, Also, there is no correspondence between periods of activity and inactivity the way there is between Gravitor and Carfiend. Bubba73 (talk), 01:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

But that does not prove you are different users, does it? All that seems to be needed here is a grudge, and an angry mob! No evidence needed. Gravitor 02:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It makes it highly unlikely. Do a checkuser on us. Bubba73 (talk), 02:03, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I try to set a higher standard, just because someone disagrees with me, I don't start a vendetta against them and try to drag them through witch hunt after witch hunt. A checkuser has already been done on me, and shown me to be innocent. Gravitor 02:12, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Anyone reading the histories in depth would learn that Gravitor and/or Carfiend do not adhere to any kind of standard other than disruption. Wahkeenah 03:38, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

A checkuser is irrelevant when the editting style is so similar and the ability to get two different IPs on two different computers is so easy. I encourage everyone to look into the editting history of these two users. They are nearly identical and they share striking commonalities in tone. Meatpuppetry is worse than sockpuppetry often. --ScienceApologist 01:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

As appealing as it would be to be able to block users simply for disagreeing with you, that's not how Wikipedia works. Gravitor 01:49, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

For your convenience, here are the results of the previous "If you disagree with me, you must be committing a crime" accusations. [1], [2]. Both, of course, were thrown out, because they are false. People who disagree with you, will often agree with each other. That does not mean they are the same person. Gravitor 01:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure that they are sockpuppets, but I think they might communicate outside of Wikipedia (email, im, etc.). Branson03 03:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

• ScienceApologist, it would be helpful if the you could provide diffs of the 3RR violation. Gravitor, please don't mischaracterize the Checkuser requests; no judgement was made whether they were true or false, they simply weren't run because the requests didn't have a code letter. The checkuser could now be refiled under code "E". --Akhilleus (talk) 02:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry, I need to read more carefully. One checkuser was declined because no code letter was given, but the second request showed no evident IP or geographic relationship. That creates a strong presumption that there's no sockpuppetry. --Akhilleus (talk) 03:50, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

What about meatpuppets? Bubba73 (talk), 03:53, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I haven't looked through the users' contributions yet, so I can't say for sure. In general, though, meatpuppets are people who are closely connected and use the same computer or the same network--so checkuser finds them also. You would need very strong evidence to show that these users are connected. --Akhilleus (talk) 04:01, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

For refernece, here is the old checkuser: Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Gravitor. Bubba73 (talk), 03:17, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

And here is the old RfC for Gravitor Bubba73 (talk), 03:26, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

And here is the old RfC for Carfiend. Bubba73 (talk), 03:38, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Notably, not one of these witch-hunts resulted in any findings against myself or Carfiend. And yet these vexatious and capricious accusations and abuses of process continue. Rather than use the talk pages to try to establish consensus, these users continue to hope that if they bring enough frivolous accusations, sooner or later one of them might result in people who disagree with them either quitting in disgust, or being wrongly blocked. Gravitor 05:29, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Conclusions

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