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May 17

"Provocative" question :-)

Request for opinions --Jayron 32 12:59, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Forgive the provocative question; could one hypothetically include Jean Dujardin in the list of 50/100 or more, best actors ever that I know, along with even the likes of Toshiro Mifune, Anthony Hopkins or Gary Oldman? Then there would be other legends as well, (De Niro, Hoffman, Nicholson, Pacino, DDL etc.) but I cannot mention them all. Please let me know, I would really value your opinion on this. Thank you very much. 93.41.96.86 (talk) 12:48, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See top of this page: "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." Philvoids (talk) 12:59, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You are, of course, free to make your own "N best actors of all times" list. Then you can include anybody you fancy. --Lambiam 06:40, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rhode Island vote

It is well known my fondness for punch cards, I am doing assiduous research but have not been able to find much. I know that in the past several New England States, adopted similar systems, along with paper ballots and lever machines, the systems were mixed. Of the six New England States, is it possible that some Rhode Island towns adopted Votomatics in the past? Thank you. 93.41.96.86 (talk) 15:38, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have found several sources that show that Rhode Island was using optical scanner systems statewide as far back as 2000; I can't find any information from earlier than that. Most states dumped the remaining punch card systems shortly after 2000, but Rhode Island wasn't one of those using such a system at that point.[1], [2], [3]. However, this document shows there was an 1897 court case in Rhode Island on the legitimacy of punch card ballots,[4] showing that they were in use, in that state, at that time, specifically John McTammany's system. That's still some 48 years before the first Votomatic punch card systems came online, however. Can't find much else than that, however. --Jayron 32 16:16, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ah forgive me, I was imprecise and vague, my fault. I was referring mostly to the 1980s, because later I assume the 1990s until the 2000s no State in New England used punch cards anymore; maybe some Massachusetts precicnt but that was a variant (the Datavote). From what little I know, besides the aforementioned State also Maine, Vermont and I think until 1986 New Hampshire, (you can always correct me if I am wrong not even being American) adopted this system in those years, mixed with others. That left Connceticut, which if I am not mistaken has always used mechanical levers, and Rhode Island; on the latter state I could not find much of what I was looking for. Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.96.86 (talk) 16:36, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have a question about public libraries and public pools/rec centers?

I'm not sure but is it correct to at least assume that most or at least many countries don't have public libraries and public pools or rec center? I'm curious about this fact. 2001:569:5026:8A00:91BB:ADB8:6CAD:184F (talk) 18:26, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be surprised if more than an isolated few countries do not have both. Looking at the bottom three countries in our list of countries by GDP (nominal), each has one or more public libraries. --Lambiam 19:11, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In our inter-library loan program, there are 203 countries listed. Googling, I see that there are currently 195 countries in the world. I assume that the program has countries that no longer exist or have disputed status, which increases the number shown. The point is that it appears that I can request a loan from every country, which implies that every country has a library. I feel that I should note that I cannot actually complete a loan request. For example, if I make a request to North Korea, it will be rejected immediately. I don't know if the rejection is on our end or theirs. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 13:52, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An example of a state not included in the count of 195 is the Republic of China, more commonly known as "Taiwan", after the island. It is recognized by by 12 UN member states and participates in the Olympic Games. A list of de-facto states can be found in our List of sovereign states, which in total currently lists 206 countries. --Lambiam 18:16, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's good to point out that there are no actual official sanctioning bodies that decide when a country can be a country; there are just varying degrees of countryness, from "One nutter claimed this plot of land and called it a country" to "Everyone in the world agrees its a country". Given that, determining exactly how many countries there are in the world is a bit fuzzy around the borders, and "200ish" is about as close as anyone can get without declaring themselves political enemies of at least a few of the other 200ish countries. CGP Grey did an excellent video explaining some of the problems with counting how many countries there are in This Video. --Jayron 32 18:25, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

_{I can't help but feel that somewhere on the internet there must be an Angevin truther who disputes the validity of France.} AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 13:41, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

May 18

Unknown gift card/debit card on my Amazon account

I just noticed that in my Amazon account I have a gift card that I don't recognize. I must have gotten it as some point but I don't remember it. Based on the Amazon Wallet Cards & Accounts webpage, here's all the information I know:

Debit Card
Name on card is "Gift Card Recipient"
Visa
Last 4 digits of the account number (which I won't list here for security reasons)
Expiration date

Is there anyway to track down what card this is based on the above information?

I already tried my credit report but this account is not listed (probably because the account holder is "Gift Card Recipient"). Since it's a gift card, it may have a positive balance but I'm afraid to use it because I don't know how much is on the card. If I accidentally spend too much and the balance went negative, I have no idea how to pay it. So anyway, this is my question: Is there anyway to track down what card this is based on the above information? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 18:37, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you try contacting Amazon? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:46, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I tried to contact them, but their website is designed to avoid giving you a number to call. But I Googled it, found a number and called them. I got the information I needed. Thanks for your help. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 21:24, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Was the gift card legit? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:16, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:25, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

May 19

A subpage under my user page is under speedy deletion.

One of my user subpages is being marked for deletion, and it took a lot of work to write it. There is personally no rule violation on there as well. Sorry, I read on Wikipedia very frequently, but seldomly edit. I created a page a few months ago with sources (and that was my only yet) and that got removed due to reliable source of publicity rules. Need help here.

User talk:Trakaplex - Wikipedia Trakaplex (talk) 03:26, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Trakaplex: The CSD notice will give you instructions on how to contest the deletion. RudolfRed (talk) 04:46, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Trakaplex:: It looks like it's already been deleted. But you should be able save the content by contacting the deleting admin who appears to be User talk:JBW. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 11:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The now-deleted page is a long, rambling narrative written in the first person (I, we, etc.) with absolutely no useful text that could possible be beneficial to the mission of Wikipedia. It certainly doesn't qualify for WP:REFUND or anything like that. JBW will not likely undelete it, and really no one should. --Jayron 32 12:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I saw it before it was deleted. Seems like it could have been kept as a subpage, like an essay. Though it seemed more appropriate to be kept on the OP's private computer. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:33, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well I kept a separate version on Google Docs, I guess that is fine. I explained my reason at User talk:Trakaplex/Project_Kelton why I had it on Wikipedia as a fixing of "trial and error". I presumed that editors would aid the improvement of the factual details. Trakaplex (talk) 13:51, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some might have been willing to if it had the potential to become a Wikipedia article (or essay), but from the descriptions above and the posts on your Talk page it doesn't sound as if that was the case. We're all volunteers and can choose what we do and don't want to do on Wikipedia, but we are broadly focussed on "building an encyclopaedia." You could use the Reference desks to ask specific factual questions that may relate to your piece, but for general collaboration on a non-encyclopaedic project (with which I wish you luck) you need to look elsewhere.

Have you been referred to WP:What Wikipedia is not? If you haven't, it might be useful to you to read it. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 13:10, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

May 20

Why do the southeastern slivers of Alaska fall under Alaska Time?

I don't know if it's just the way the map is laid out, but the westernmost parts of British Columbia―which are represented by the Pacific Time Zone―seem to be offset farther west than a good portion of the Alaskan Panhandle in this image. I'm surprised cities like Juneau are considered to belong in UTC−09:00 instead of UTC−08:00. Hmm1994 (talk) 14:46, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the state of Alaska wanted to be in just one time zone. These things are decided by politicians. Note also that the International Date Line bends around the Aleutians, keeping Alaska in the same day; and also bends around the eastern end of Russia, with the same result. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:09, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would have thought it self-evident that time zones would follow state or province boundaries, but I see that North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska and Kansas all have two time zones, [5] which must be very inconvenient. Alansplodge (talk) 22:38, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Each Australian state and territory sets its own time zone, which applies to the entire state. The only exception I know of is Broken Hill, which uses Central Australian Time rather than Eastern, because it's physically closer to the South Australian state capital, Adelaide, than to its own state capital, Sydney. Also, because this arrangement was put in place back when there was a direct rail link to Adelaide but not to Sydney. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:04, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In those areas, there are population clusters that lie on the border of two states; it doesn't make sense to make them different time zones. For example, the Rapid City, South Dakota metropolitan area in western South Dakota continues into Wyoming, towns like Sundance, Four Corners, and Newcastle Wyoming are more likely to have business in Rapid City than anywhere in Wyoming. Once you get east of Wall, however, there's fuckall for hundreds of miles. It makes more sense to run the time zone line through cow pastures and oil rigs than it does through the middle of population clusters, so any of the weird jogs the time zone lines make are usually for that reason. --Jayron 32 16:25, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alaska used to be in four time zones, from −8 (Pacific Time) in the southeast (i.e. the Panhandle) to −11 in the west. Some people wanted to have fewer time zones in the state and in 1983 they won out, with the −8 part moving one hour earlier to −9 (then called Yukon Time, now Alaska Time) and the −10 and −11 parts moving one hour later. Or maybe it was more complicated than that.

As for time-zone boundaries following state lines, it is more practical if they are in areas of low population density. In some cases state lines are in areas of high population density. --142.112.220.184 (talk) 04:11, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes, that probably explains it. Those four states have a perfectly straight western border, but the time zone wriggles about like an English country lane. Alansplodge (talk) 11:03, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cities near state lines may have more direct interactions with cities on the other side than they do with those further away in their own state. It would be quite inconvenient to live in one time zone, but work in another. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:38, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tell the people of Tweed Heads (New South Wales) and Coolangatta (Queensland) that. They are so closely connected that the state border runs down the middle of the main street they share. NSW has daylight saving time between October and March, but Queensland does not. For six months of the year, traders on one side of the street are an hour behind/ahead of those on the other. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:13, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And there are times in the year when there's a two-hour difference between the two Spanish enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla, and Morocco itself. In this case, you can say the two enclaves are turning their backs to Morocco and facing the Spanish mainland, but it's still strange, given the two have a land border with Morocco. Xuxl (talk) 14:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

May 22

Definition of a rectangle

Some sources, including us and Great Soviet Encyclopedia (3rd edition), define rectangle simply as a quadrilateral with four right angles. But a square is also a quadrilateral with four right angles. While I find our square's definition precise, such rectangle definition looks too broad and may include square as well. Am I missing something? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 20:57, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Squares are a subset of rectangles. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:00, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And by way of a reference (other than the Great Soviet Encyclopedia):

...so a square is a special type of rectangle where the two pairs of opposite sides happen to be of the same length. An oblong is a rectangle that is not a square.

Meeting the Standards in Primary Mathematics (2003)

BTW, we have a dedicated Mathematics Reference Desk where the sages that understand these things can be found. Alansplodge (talk) 21:12, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just to blow your mind further, a circle is an ellipse with eccentricity e = 0. Furthermore, both are subsets of conic sections, which when e = ∞ become pairs of parallel lines. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 00:14, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If some buddy of mine points to a square and says "that's a rectangle", I will know that the pedantic fellow is right, but I will still respond, "You are a blockhead". Simplification leads to better understanding for students. Cullen328 (talk) 08:05, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, but only if it's done right and does not involve falsification. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 13:30, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Baird Land Map

https://geo.web.ru/druza/931_5.htm - is there a similar, but fresh map of science stations, both permanent and temporary? Vyacheslav84 (talk) 05:32, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Historicity of "arm slashers."

Greetings!

I've been researching unusual terms and phrases that English has been borrowing from French throughout the ages, and I'm now utterly perplexed.

Namely, Randle Cotgrave's A dictionarie of the French and English tongues (1611) lists the term Taille-bras defining it as "A hackster, *arme-slasher."

Cross referencing with the OED, I found an even more idiosyncratic definition; viz., under arm sb¹ section III, it lists (as obsolete) "arm-slasher, one who cuts his arm to get blood with which to drink his mistress' health."

I tried searching for any records of this—in both textbooks and works of fiction—as a possible medicinal or courtship ritual, but so far I've found absolutely nothing.

Did somebody (deliberately or otherwise) mislead Mr. Cotgrave into including this, or did such a thing actually and regularly happen in 17th-Century France?

Can anyone here point me to a novel, play, or other reference that mentions this? Thank you.

Pine (talk) 07:52, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At the time it was alleged that a similar practice was current in England. This is from Thomas Hall's Funebria Florae, 3rd edition, 1661:

Before men were fanatick and wilde in their Principals; now men are fanatick and frantick in Practicals; they rant, they roar, they sing, they swear, they drink, they dance, they whore, they lye, they scoff; yea, some there are (I hope they are not many) that put their own blood into their drink, and then drink a health to the King, and to the confusion of Sion and its King; this is reported to mee by persons of good repute.

Sounds like a moral panic about Restoration roistering, and far from a proof that any such blood-drinking actually happened. --Antiquary (talk) 10:04, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here's another example you can believe if you like. --Antiquary (talk) 11:46, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How big is a private library?

In a conversation recently there was some discussion about what constituted a private library. There's a sort of progression from bookshelf to book collection to PL, but where are the boundaries? One participant was claiming that over 1,000 titles were "legally a private library"; according to whom and are there any legal issues? If it helps, UK usage please! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:21, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What would be a theoretical definition of a "private library"? Is there such a thing as a "public library" in the UK? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:52, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at public library for a succinct definition: "A public library is a library that is accessible by the general public and is usually funded from public sources, such as taxes". We've had them established by law since 1835. Historically a private library was one in a private house such as a stately home. Then there are university and business research libraries which have attributes of both, call them what you will. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:02, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Is there such a thing as a "public library" in the UK?" it's like one of those "Dumb things Americans say when they meet British people" videos on instagram. Sometimes I think Bugs is a parody of himself. DuncanHill (talk) 13:21, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Goes along with the reported comment from a GI in Naples during the war "Gee, they have pizza here" or else "they speak English over there" which was reportedly said to US soldiers being sent to England prior to D-Day! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:41, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There's a New York Times article that mentions a common belief that 1,000 is the minimum for a book collection to be considered a private library. I can't remember exactly what it said as I only glanced at it quickly and now the NYT is demanding money from me. Anyway, I have over 3,700 books and I tend to refer the them as my library, more particularly some of them as my Lloyd George Library. I have never heard of any legal issues with keeping lots of books, tho' I think there are a few historic collections that can't be broken up or separated from the houses they are in. The one at The College, Ottery, springs to mind. DuncanHill (talk) 13:17, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The NYT want money from me as well. We're relatively modest, 2,300 according to the catalogue, but there are a few more boxes to process once I get additional shelving put up. BTW, how do you catalogue? I use Zotero (it has the nice feature that it will load the bibliographic data from just an ISBN for the more modern books) with Dewey Abridged 13 for the call number. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:32, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I use LibraryThing (my profile here). I enter manually, as have a lot of pre-SBN books, and I found that I was accruing too many errors relying on ISBN. Zotero does look interesting for its referencing abilities. DuncanHill (talk) 13:51, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have around 16,000 volumes all told, including maybe 1,500 non-fiction, so I suppose my collection qualifies: I actively lend books to friends, too, which is part of its point. About 30 years ago I visited a small bookshop, and realised that I not only had more books than it did, but more books in any category.

I'm slowly completing my catalogue (up to 13,300) which, because I started it in 1975 is handwritten on 6"x4" index cards – more flexible than many databases, but also much heavier! I've yet to decide on if or how eventually to digitise it, but it'll be a few years before I'm ready to, so I'll wait to see what's available then. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 13:54, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 146: / Line 146: @@
 ::The NYT want money from me as well.  We're relatively modest, 2,300 according to the catalogue, but there are a few more boxes to process once I get additional shelving put up.  BTW, how do you catalogue?  I use Zotero (it has the nice feature that it will load the bibliographic data from just an ISBN for the more modern books) with Dewey Abridged 13 for the call number. [[User:Martin of Sheffield|Martin of Sheffield]] ([[User talk:Martin of Sheffield|talk]]) 13:32, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 :::I use LibraryThing (my profile [https://www.librarything.com/profile/DuncanHill here]). I enter manually, as have a lot of pre-SBN books, and I found that I was accruing too many errors relying on ISBN. Zotero does look interesting for its referencing abilities. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 13:51, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
+::::I have around 16,000 volumes all told, including maybe 1,500 non-fiction, so I suppose my collection qualifies: I actively lend books to friends, too, which is part of its point. About 30 years ago I visited a small bookshop, and realised that I not only had more books than it did, but more books ''in any category''.
+::::I'm slowly completing my catalogue (up to 13,300) which, because I started it in 1975 is handwritten on 6"x4" index cards  – more flexible than many databases, but also much heavier! I've yet to decide on if or how eventually to digitise it, but it'll be a few years before I'm ready to, so I'll wait to see what's available then. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} [[Special:Contributions/90.199.210.77|90.199.210.77]] ([[User talk:90.199.210.77|talk]]) 13:54, 23 May 2023 (UTC)