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:Yeah, Toyota has always been as clear as mud about their race engines and often use the same code for different race engines or different codes for the same engine depending on what race they are going in. Which is why we need to clarify it as much as possible and use good references. If need, we can say things like "officially listed as a 3S-GE (which do not have a turbo from the factory) but used a turbo for racing". <span style="border:1px solid blue;border-radius:4px;color:blue;box-shadow: 3px 3px 4px grey;">[[User:Stepho-wrs|'''&nbsp;Stepho&nbsp;''']]&nbsp;<span style="font-size:xx-small; vertical-align:top">[[User Talk:Stepho-wrs|talk]]&nbsp;</span></span> 08:52, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
:Yeah, Toyota has always been as clear as mud about their race engines and often use the same code for different race engines or different codes for the same engine depending on what race they are going in. Which is why we need to clarify it as much as possible and use good references. If need, we can say things like "officially listed as a 3S-GE (which do not have a turbo from the factory) but used a turbo for racing". <span style="border:1px solid blue;border-radius:4px;color:blue;box-shadow: 3px 3px 4px grey;">[[User:Stepho-wrs|'''&nbsp;Stepho&nbsp;''']]&nbsp;<span style="font-size:xx-small; vertical-align:top">[[User Talk:Stepho-wrs|talk]]&nbsp;</span></span> 08:52, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
::I'd love to work together with you on this, and see if we can clarify this. I just can't seem to find a whole lot of sources on the Toyota GT500 engines as my current search terms pull up articles on the TOM'S Supra itself and not Toyota's GT500 powertrains. It may just be a case of being officially known as a 3S-GT(non-EFI) but having EFI for GT500. As far as I can find, the GT500 Supra's powertrain is just a derivation of the 503E detuned for GT500's regulations and doesn't change too much on the original 503E architecture. [[User:Glitzyditzygal|Glitzyditzygal]] ([[User talk:Glitzyditzygal|talk]]) 16:09, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
::I'd love to work together with you on this, and see if we can clarify this. I just can't seem to find a whole lot of sources on the Toyota GT500 engines as my current search terms pull up articles on the TOM'S Supra itself and not Toyota's GT500 powertrains. It may just be a case of being officially known as a 3S-GT(non-EFI) but having EFI for GT500. As far as I can find, the GT500 Supra's powertrain is just a derivation of the 503E detuned for GT500's regulations and doesn't change too much on the original 503E architecture. [[User:Glitzyditzygal|Glitzyditzygal]] ([[User talk:Glitzyditzygal|talk]]) 16:09, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

== Fast v. Quick ==

Hi Wayne,

I'm Jay Boucher from Canada and thank you for your polite input on my "Fast v. Quick" suggestion I made yesterday. Would you further-extend your help by directing me to a page that can show me how to do a redirect? I like the way your signature appears on screen, is there also a page that can show me how to do that as well? Can you tell I'm a neophyte? One more thing; If I practice using my sandbox, can anyone see that?

By the way, I too once owned a 1982 Toyota Corolla SR5 ([https://www.flickr.com/photos/daveseven/594924908/ E71-Liftback]), I drove it until the holes on the floor became too big and large quantity of slushed snow began to mount right beneath the carpet lining only to freeze overnight! What can I say, both the engine and manual transmission just never died-out, even after travelling just under half a million kilometers with it. I had nicknamed it ''My Little Japanese Tank.''

[[User:13lorem|13lorem]] ([[User talk:13lorem|talk]]) 11:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)


:Hi Jay.
:Yep, I've found polite co-operation produces better results than antagonism.
:I don't have much experience with snow (2 weeks in Sweden at -20C). My experience is with hot weather. I was visiting Ottawa during a "heatwave" of 30C - we thought it was nice weather and went for a 2 hour walk across town. But you're certainly right about Toyota making tough cars. My little fleet of 80s Toyota just keeps rolling.
:For redirects, the big secret is to create a new article and put in <code><nowiki>#redirect [[List of fastest production cars by acceleration]]</nowiki></code>
:If somebody ever goes to that article (say, by typing part of it in the search box and getting auto completion) then WP will automatically redirect them to [[List of fastest production cars by acceleration]].
:See an example at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Toyota_Cressida_(X70)&redirect=no (click on edit to see the code, then cancel).
:See also [[WP:REDIRECT]].
:Your signature can be changed at [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences]] about halfway down (there is a link in the top right corner of any WP page). My signature (a car license plate) is <code><nowiki><span style="border:1px solid blue;border-radius:4px;color:blue;box-shadow: 3px 3px 4px grey;">[[User:Stepho-wrs|'''&nbsp;Stepho&nbsp;''']]&nbsp;<span style="font-size:xx-small; vertical-align:top">[[User Talk:Stepho-wrs|talk]]&nbsp;</span></span></nowiki></code>
:My signature is very near the size limit. Any HTML and/or CSS will work.
:Sandboxes can be seen by anybody but people have to do work a bit harder to find them. If you don't advertise them then nobody is likely to stumble across them. if you want somebody to look at it then just send people a link on their talk page - just like linking to any other article. <span style="border:1px solid blue;border-radius:4px;color:blue;box-shadow: 3px 3px 4px grey;">[[User:Stepho-wrs|'''&nbsp;Stepho&nbsp;''']]&nbsp;<span style="font-size:xx-small; vertical-align:top">[[User Talk:Stepho-wrs|talk]]&nbsp;</span></span> 23:28, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
== Nomination for deletion of [[:Template:ConvertStringToNumeric]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|30px|link=]][[:Template:ConvertStringToNumeric]] has been [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|nominated for deletion]]. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2022 May 16#Template:ConvertStringToNumeric|the entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 03:35, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
== Nomination for deletion of [[:Module:ConvertStringToNumeric]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|30px|link=]][[:Module:ConvertStringToNumeric]] has been [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|nominated for deletion]]. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2022 May 16#Module:ConvertStringToNumeric|the entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 03:36, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

:Thanks for the notification. <span style="border:1px solid blue;border-radius:4px;color:blue;box-shadow: 3px 3px 4px grey;">[[User:Stepho-wrs|'''&nbsp;Stepho&nbsp;''']]&nbsp;<span style="font-size:xx-small; vertical-align:top">[[User Talk:Stepho-wrs|talk]]&nbsp;</span></span> 04:19, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Revision as of 04:48, 16 May 2023


TR7 lead

WRT "Split the timeline sentence. Otherwise it tends to read as from 1974 to 1981 until 1975 - which of course is non-sensical. Perhaps the detail of the change of division should be moved out of the lead."

First off, I think if you cut bits out of any sentence like that, you can make it appear like nonsense; avoiding what you shortened it to is the reason for the inversion in "by the Rover-Triumph Division of the British Leyland Motor Corporation (BLMC) until May 1975" (and the preceding comma). But even "...from 1974 to 1981, until 1975 by the Rover-Triumph Division of the British Leyland Motor Corporation (BLMC)", would have issues, which is why I didn't put it so. However, while I disagree that it was nonsense, and certainly don't see the need to opinion that in the edit description, I accept that if anyone found it confusing, it is better changed.

I was trying to keep it as a single, if slightly complex, sentence in alignment with most of the other car articles I've bothered to look at. But anything to do with BLMC/BL is inevitably more complicated than it should need to be.

On the point of moving it out of the lead, I'm not sure it would be right to remove the attribution of the manufacturer to somewhere else. If it really were so simple as a "change of division" within the same company, it would be easy. But as there is no common term I can think of for both BLMC and BL, as Don Ryder et al changed the name, it is bound, as said, to be more complicated than it should need to be. Indeed, it is more complicated than even that, since it was only BL from 1978, being British Leyland till Edwardes changed it again. But that's obviously too pedantic for the lead, and "British Leyland (BL)" covers both well enough. So, if it has to be two sentences to avoid it confusing some, then so be it. But I think it stays in the lead.

While I've put this here in your talk, maybe the last bit should be in the TR7 talk.

Graham

Graham.Fountain | Talk 15:50, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi Graham. I initially removed the "until 1975" part because I had misunderstood the original sentence. You correctly reinstated it and the reinstated version did make sense. But it was also easy to misinterpret it (as I did) and it was the misinterpreted version (ie, the version in my head) that was non-sensical. The sentence was trying to pack too much information in and was therefore hard to decode. Which is why I split it into two sentences - the first sentence with the overall production dates and the second sentence showing that the factory changed partway through production. I believe the 2 sentences convey exactly the same information as the original single sentence but is easier to read. Apologies if my edit summary sounded more critical than I intended.
Personally, I think that the particular factory that produced a particular instance of the car is not a vital piece of information that belongs in the lead. It definitely belongs in the article somewhere but is not really a defining part of the car. However, your point about the company itself changing does hold considerable weight. So I mentioned it in passing as a thought for others to consider but didn't actually take action on it. I'm not dead set on this either way.  Stepho  talk  21:37, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I understand it's not easy to summarize such things as concisely as the space allows. Also. I've been in self-isolation for near 2 weeks, cos one of the sprogs tested positive and didn't do the reporting process right. So I may not be quite as rational as I should be.
I agree that neither the factory nor the division that made the TR7 matter greatly to the lead; just the company change from BLMC to British Leyland (BL), when Don Ryder and the NEB effectively nationalized it. I admit that is just a name change, with a bit of a managerial cull and divisional reorganization - see Charlton Ogburn#The Marauders -, but I don't know how to identify the company making the TR7 without covering the change and its date.
Maybe it's something like the following:
"The Triumph TR7 sports car was manufactured in the United Kingdom from September 1974 to October 1981 by British Leyland Motor Corporation (BLMC), which changed its name to British Leyland (BL) in 1975. The car was launched in the United States in January 1975, with its UK home market debut in May 1976. The UK launch was delayed at least twice because of high demand for the vehicle in the US, with final sales of new TR7s continuing into 1982."
Then cover all the divisional changes, from Rover-Triumph Division to Specialist Division then Jaguar-Rover-Triumph Division, and plant moves, from Speke to Canley in 78 and then to Solihull in 80, in the body. It could still be split into two sentences, but without the other baggage, and with the information about the change after a descriptive relative pronoun, I think it's okay as one. Graham.Fountain | Talk 12:19, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Yep, no problem with that. Your rewrite of the lead also sits well with me.  Stepho  talk  11:13, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Re: Toyota Corona edits: "only an idiot would confuse the two"

If the world weren't full of idiots we wouldn't be in a situation where we'd be concerned about confusing the two for three years now in the first place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:280:c680:c530:b0c4:529b:bbbb:34c0 (talkcontribs)

It's hard to make things idiot-proof because the world keeps making better idiots. :)  Stepho  talk  06:28, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

That would obviously make the short description too long to read. I just tried to modify the short description to include what the industry does with vehicles. Perhaps "tuners, tyre fitters, muffler shops, aftermarket suppliers, aftermarket fitters, car stereo suppliers/fitters, air conditioner shops, windscreen companies, electrical repairers, body repairers, automobile insurers" can be included in the article text to list all organizations involved here —CrafterNova [ TALK ]  [ CONT ] 11:10, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Add such a list to the article sounds like a great idea.  Stepho  talk  11:24, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Your revert

Good morning. Concerning your revert in Boeing 307: So what about Airspeed Ambassador, Lockheed L-1011 TriStar or VFW-Fokker 614 an dozens of others? Regards --Uli Elch (talk) 09:22, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

You are correct, those other articles should be changed too.  Stepho  talk  10:31, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

TR7 V8 engined version or separate TR8 model?

Do you have an opinion on the edit made to add the V8 engine in the info panel, it's removal me, and reversion of that by the [[User talk:Chaheel Riens|originator]? Graham.Fountain | Talk 17:21, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

I've added my 2c to the discussion. But my TR7/8 knowledge isn't all that much, so I've just stuck to general principles.  Stepho  talk  09:30, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Issue with the lede in the Nissan GT-R article.

Hey, me and another editor got an issue with the lede in the GT-R article. So I'm requesting to join our discussion and provide a third opinion about our issue. Best regards. XT RedZone (talk) 08:54, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

What did everyone else call IEEE-1394?

Hi! If you happen to know what IEEE-1394/FireWire/i.LINK/etc. tended to be called by those who did not attempt to rebrand it, please follow up your comment at Talk:IEEE 1394#Requested move 24 March 2022. Thanks! —151.132.206.250 (talk) 16:56, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

revert

concerning your revert, could you please always make sure that you are only reverting the contributions of one editor at a time? -- Kku (talk) 15:41, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Oops, my mistake and my apologies.  Stepho  talk  22:42, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

3S-GT confusion.

Sources aren't completely clear, but most seem to agree that the engine was known as the 3S-GT, despite being an EFI engine. They also seem to imply that 3S-GT is merely another name for the 503E, likely to differentiate the 480bhp detuned version in the GT500 cars from the 800bhp monster the 503E is. Glitzyditzygal (talk) 23:07, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, Toyota has always been as clear as mud about their race engines and often use the same code for different race engines or different codes for the same engine depending on what race they are going in. Which is why we need to clarify it as much as possible and use good references. If need, we can say things like "officially listed as a 3S-GE (which do not have a turbo from the factory) but used a turbo for racing".  Stepho  talk  08:52, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
I'd love to work together with you on this, and see if we can clarify this. I just can't seem to find a whole lot of sources on the Toyota GT500 engines as my current search terms pull up articles on the TOM'S Supra itself and not Toyota's GT500 powertrains. It may just be a case of being officially known as a 3S-GT(non-EFI) but having EFI for GT500. As far as I can find, the GT500 Supra's powertrain is just a derivation of the 503E detuned for GT500's regulations and doesn't change too much on the original 503E architecture. Glitzyditzygal (talk) 16:09, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Fast v. Quick

Hi Wayne,

I'm Jay Boucher from Canada and thank you for your polite input on my "Fast v. Quick" suggestion I made yesterday. Would you further-extend your help by directing me to a page that can show me how to do a redirect? I like the way your signature appears on screen, is there also a page that can show me how to do that as well? Can you tell I'm a neophyte? One more thing; If I practice using my sandbox, can anyone see that?

By the way, I too once owned a 1982 Toyota Corolla SR5 (E71-Liftback), I drove it until the holes on the floor became too big and large quantity of slushed snow began to mount right beneath the carpet lining only to freeze overnight! What can I say, both the engine and manual transmission just never died-out, even after travelling just under half a million kilometers with it. I had nicknamed it My Little Japanese Tank.

13lorem (talk) 11:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)


Hi Jay.
Yep, I've found polite co-operation produces better results than antagonism.
I don't have much experience with snow (2 weeks in Sweden at -20C). My experience is with hot weather. I was visiting Ottawa during a "heatwave" of 30C - we thought it was nice weather and went for a 2 hour walk across town. But you're certainly right about Toyota making tough cars. My little fleet of 80s Toyota just keeps rolling.
For redirects, the big secret is to create a new article and put in #redirect [[List of fastest production cars by acceleration]]
If somebody ever goes to that article (say, by typing part of it in the search box and getting auto completion) then WP will automatically redirect them to List of fastest production cars by acceleration.
See an example at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Toyota_Cressida_(X70)&redirect=no (click on edit to see the code, then cancel).
See also WP:REDIRECT.
Your signature can be changed at [[1]] about halfway down (there is a link in the top right corner of any WP page). My signature (a car license plate) is <span style="border:1px solid blue;border-radius:4px;color:blue;box-shadow: 3px 3px 4px grey;">[[User:Stepho-wrs|''' Stepho ''']] <span style="font-size:xx-small; vertical-align:top">[[User Talk:Stepho-wrs|talk]] </span></span>
My signature is very near the size limit. Any HTML and/or CSS will work.
Sandboxes can be seen by anybody but people have to do work a bit harder to find them. If you don't advertise them then nobody is likely to stumble across them. if you want somebody to look at it then just send people a link on their talk page - just like linking to any other article.  Stepho  talk  23:28, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:ConvertStringToNumeric

Template:ConvertStringToNumeric has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:35, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Module:ConvertStringToNumeric

Module:ConvertStringToNumeric has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:36, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification.  Stepho  talk  04:19, 16 May 2022 (UTC)