Talk:Battle of Britain

Contribution of the Polish Air Force to the Air Battle of Britain is Totally Ignored

--2601:18C:8480:7610:4CEE:3B36:8A60:6BD1 (talk) 18:46, 5 July 2020 (UTC)The Polish Kosciuszko 303 Squadron was the most formidable fighter unit in the Air Battle of Britain yet is totally ignored in this article.In the six weeks of combat during the battles most crucial period, this squadron shot down 126 Nazis air craft,more than twice as many as any other RAF squadron at that time. Air Chief Marshal Sir Hugh Dowding said "Had it not been for the magnificent contribution and unsurpassed gallantry of the Polish squadrons, the outcome would not have been the same." Queen Elizabeth II made the same point: "If Poland had not stood with us in those days... the candle of freedom might have been snuffed out." On the first day of the Blitz the Poles of 303 shot down 14 Nazis planes in less than 15 minutes. In just over a week of combat the all Polish Squadron had destroyed 40 enemy aircraft-- by far the best record in the entire RAF. Reference: Lynne Olson "Last Hope Island" Chapter Six, Random House 2017

If you don’t like it add to the belligerents section, you are correct

Signed: gceasar@msn.com

Except... 303 Squadron is specifically mentioned quite positively in the article, and Polish forces multiple times, along with a link to an article about foreign involvement in the RAF in the BoB. (Non-British personnel in the RAF during the Battle of Britain). (Hohum ^@) 19:11, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

The words "Poland" and/or "Polish" are included over thirty times in the article. There are also two photographs related to the Polish squadrons included in the article. In what way does this constitute the Polish pilots being "totally ignored"? --Shimbo (talk) 23:57, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

The primary purpose of RAF Fighter Command was to prevent enemy bombers form successfully attacking their chosen industrial and military targets and to discourage such further attacks. As such, fighter 'kills' were of secondary importance. As far as the UK Government was concerned the Luftwaffe could come over every day and night as often as it wished and as long as their bombs fell in empty fields or farmland their efforts would have little or no effect on the British ability to wage war.

This was a key part of British air defence strategy that Dowding and Keith Park understood that Leigh-Mallory and Bader didn't.

The 'Polish Air Force' along with the Polish Army and Navy had been surrendered to Nazi Germany in 1939 and as-such took no part in the Battle of Britain, the Polish pilots who fought in the battle consisted of a relatively small number of refugees who chose to escape to Britain and continue to fight as members of the RAF, these personnel then being organised into ad hoc RAF Squadrons with the subsequent agreement of the Polish Government in Exile in London. This was necessary because the Polish Air Force was no longer recognised by Nazi Germany as what is now known as a 'lawful combatant' and it was only as members of the RAF (a 'lawful combatant') that Poles would be accorded the protections of the Geneva Convention if shot down and captured. This state of affairs also applied to members of the other armed forces of states occupied by Nazi Germany who chose to escape to the UK and continue to fight.

While such 'legal niceties' may appear irrelevant they in fact made the difference between being treated as a legitimate POW if shot down and captured, and possibly being put up against a wall and shot by the Nazi puppet governments of these occupied states.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.8.126.91 (talk) 20:53, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Accuracy of 303 Squadron victories

Additionally, the figure of 126 planes shot down is heavily questioned; it's twice as many as any other squadron, including the Polish pilots of 302. I do not mean to suggest the Poles of 303 inflated their kills, but there has been some confusion somewhere along the way to get this figure. Polish historian Jacek Kutzner, who has done extensive research on the squadron, revises the figure down to 58.8, which is still the highest, but possibly more realistic. Regardless, the figure of 126 should stop being accepted as outright fact. 2A00:23C5:CE18:BA01:319F:B5C2:B534:1C6E (talk) 22:31, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Interesting, but we need a reference to a reliable source in order to include that information in the article. --Shimbo (talk) 23:59, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

At present the article only says that 303 Sqn pilots filed 126 claims and that 303 Sqn was possibly the highest-scoring Hurricane squadron. As previously mentioned, John Alcorn, in 'Battle of Britain Top Guns: Update' (Aeroplane, July 2000, pp.24-29), says that 303 Sqn actually filed 121 claims of which 45 are substantiated by post-war research, an accuracy rate of 37% (one of the lowest accuracy rates in the RAF, and the only ones lower than that tended to be from squadrons with only a few kills, so the proportional effect is larger). Although 303 Sqn were among the worst overclaimers, by a factor of almost 3:1 -- perhaps an index of their enthusiasm -- they were nevertheless the highest-scoring Hurricane squadron (the next best was 501 Sqn with 40.5 kills) and the third highest-scoring of all RAF squadrons, after 603 Sqn with 57.5 kills and and 609 Sqn with 51.5, both these being Spitfire squadrons. Incidentally, 603 Sqn's 85.8 claims were 67% accurate and 609 Sqn's 86 claims were 60% accurate. But 303 Sqn's actual kill record was very good considering that they only entered the battle when it was halfway through. Dowding's suggestion that the outcome of the battle might have been different without the Poles was polite hyperbole (there were almost as many New Zealanders in Fighter Command, Al Deere for one, and they didn't have to be taught English, or the basics of R/T discipline which was central to Fighter Command's effort), but the Poles certainly did their bit. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:58, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

And do you have any proof of this claim? The Banner talk 18:18, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Reason for removal of pilot

I have removed Mohinder Singh Pujji from the Other notable Battle of Britain pilots section. He was later a great pilot indeed, but the BOB was fought 10 July until 31 October 1940, and he never got his wings until April the following year. Moriori (talk) 21:50, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Czechoslovakia

Czechoslovakia was fighting for UK 176.10.139.75 (talk) 11:45, 9 January 2023 (UTC)