Talk:Common Era

For Wikipedia policy on use of AD/CE and BCE/BC notation, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers § Era style.

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Yes, but what does it mean?

As of this date, 2022-10-01, this article does not explain what BCE and CE actually mean. It's a history of the terms' usage, but the article assumes that people reading this article already understand what BCE and CE are. I was looking for a clear explanation of what BCE is -- how it is used, what that number means, how a given date is calculated, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.220.233.223 (talk) 16:52, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

It means the calendar era commonly used today. Do Common Era and Before the Common Era are alternatives to the Anno Domini (AD) and Before Christ (BC) notations used by Dionysius Exiguus and Since the later 20th century, CE and BCE have become popular in academic and scientific publications because BCE and CE are religiously neutral terms not explain that sufficiently? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:08, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

CE/BCE are also abbreviations for Christian Era/Before Christian Era

Given that CE and BCE are also abbreviations for Christian Era and Before Christian Era respectively, it would be better to include clarifying notes at the beginning of the article, near CE an BCE, stating that they are also used as abbreviations for Christian Era and Before Christian Era.

Ref: CE | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary CE Definition & Meaning | Britannica Dictionary

BCE | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary BCE Definition & Meaning | Britannica Dictionary EXANXC (talk) 14:57, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

No, it would just be clutter. This article is "Common Era". It is not CE (disambiguation). (The latter explicitly includes Christian Era as one of it possible interpretations.) CE does not redirect here. To put your proposal in context, an equivalent proposal would require the Anno Domini article to have a hat note explaining that AD is just one way of denoting years our current era according to the Gregorian calendar and that Common Era is the other. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:58, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

I think it's confusing for JMF to use the link "CE (disambiguation)" when that is merely a redirect to "CE", which is indeed a disambiguation page. The page "CE" does not contain the word "Christian". Jc3s5h (talk) 16:25, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it is – I gave way to the system nagging me for attempting to use an ambiguous term.

Also my mistake: I was certain that the CE article mentioned Christian Era but I was wrong, it did not: it does now because I've added it. (* "Christian Era", better known as Anno Domini.)

My objection stands, notwithstanding these details. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:53, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

No matter what new term is used to exclude the Lord Jesus Christ from history, time is still defined as before and after this, the most important life and event in history of mankind, Salvation and Peace are His alone. 2603:8081:8DF0:9560:4804:BD3D:4BD4:EC8D (talk) 22:10, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

OK AntiDionysius (talk) 22:12, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

But no, time is not defined by that event. Time existed long before this solar system was formed and will continue long after it has been destroyed. Counting of years in the AD/CE era begins from a moment about five years after the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. This era and its epoch is just one of many: that this one has become the de facto standard civil calendar worldwide is due to economic reasons not religious ones. The CE notation is not "chosen to exclude" your Lord; merely that people of other faiths (and none) have other Lords and choose not to give precedence to your choice. Rather less than one third of the world population are Christian. No-one is stopping you from using AD, no-one is compelling you to use CE. Wikipedia's policy on the topic is given at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Era style. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:29, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

That's all fine - except for the logic: the "C" could mean both "Christian" and "Common" - with or without the following "E". So it is not logical but a convention to change the meaning of the "C" to "Common" by adding the "E". However, the ISO requires simply using the minus sign for "BC" anyway, thus avoiding the "C" altogether.HJJHolm (talk) 05:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Again, this article is Common Era, not CE. The ⟨E⟩ abbreviates era. q.v.. No-one 'changed' the C from 'Christian' to 'Common', if anything the reverse is more likely. As is explained in detail the article, the original phrase was Vulgar Era, meaning 'common era' in modern English. In the last couple of centuries, the word "vulgar" changed meaning from "of the common people" to "rude" (another word that has changed meaning!). Finally and most importantly, Wikipedia describes reality as it is, warts and all, logical or otherwise; if you want a sanitised echo-chamber, try Conservapedia. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:14, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

The International Organization for Standardization, short form ISO, has many standards about dates, and each of those has gone through may revisions. Unless you give the number and edition of the standard you are thinking of, your statement about ISO cannot be verified. Also, ISO doesn't require anything. It offers voluntary standards which people and organizations can adopt, or not. Jc3s5h (talk) 17:40, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

"Earliest found" aka Original research?

I've been cleaning up some very poorly written "citations" (like Title=First recorded use [!]). There are plenty more to do, mañana. But I'm concerned that the material I'm correcting reads to me like a WP:OR analysis of primary sources. "Earliest found" appears to be "the earliest that the contributing editor found. We really need to replace this with a secondary RS that makes the analysis. Anyone? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:33, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

I have WP:WEASELed "is" to "may be". --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Cleanup continues

• After cleaning out another "citation", I have decided to delete this, since it proves nothing either way: In 1856, Rabbi and historian Morris Jacob Raphall used the abbreviations C.E. and B.C.E. in his book Post-Biblical History of The Jews. If anyone disagrees, please explain. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

References