View source for User talk:NSH001/Archive 5

{{aan}}

== You might be busy ==

But could you get that  winsome littlesSheila of yours to swing her bot and romp through the FA candidate [[Manilal Dwivedi]] by any chance in the next week or so? Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 13:28, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
:See the discussion [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_candidates#Looking_for_a_mentor here].[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 13:29, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
::Hello. Thanks for your help on Manilal Dwivedi. Could you do the same for [[User:Gazal world/Fasana-e-Azad]] and [[Siddhantasara]] ? I want to nominate the later for GA. Thanks. --[[User:Gazal world|Gazal world]] ([[User talk:Gazal world|talk]]) 11:40, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
::: {{u|Gazal world}} - OK, done. Note that templates like {{tl|Subscription required}} and {{tl|Closed access}} are now deprecated; instead you should use the appropriate choice(s) from the numerous access-control parameters, as described in the cite template documentation. They give you much better control over which items are restricted, and the precise level of access. See, for example, {{tl|Cite book}}. I've fixed most of them for you, but I deliberately left one for you to fix yourself. Also note that you sometimes get {{para|script-title}} and {{para|title}} mixed up. Good luck with the GA! --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 15:38, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
:::: Hey NSH001. Thank you very very much. I noted both the points you indicated, and 'll take care of it next time. --[[User:Gazal world|Gazal world]] ([[User talk:Gazal world|talk]]) 16:59, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
::::: BDW, how do you do this ? Can I do it myself ? --[[User:Gazal world|Gazal world]] ([[User talk:Gazal world|talk]]) 17:21, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
{{od|5}} I use a script that I wrote myself (and am still developing, as a sort of retirement hobby). Perhaps you and others will be able to use it one day, but it won't be for a while yet (think years rather than weeks or months). See the very long pinned thread above (the 2nd pinned thread) for my motivation in writing it. That thread also gives a part-description of what it does. I once called the script my "little baby", but she is now rapidly growing up. {{u|Nishidani}} is her honorary great-uncle, and I still have to think of a name for my (mythical) baby. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 18:18, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
:I've always taken uncle/great uncle/godfather duties very seriously, and so I'll have to wring the grey smatter over the next few months or years to make a list of possible suggestions for her  rite de passage into the wider internet. Best to you both.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:01, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
::While eating a few minutes ago somewhat dutifully a slice of meat pie I'd cooked yesterday (using for once a glutin-free flour because part of the result was intended as a gift to a relative with an allergy - unfortunately the pastry spoiled the repaste, though the mince, onion, peas, dash of garlic, potatoes, carrot ingredients retained their savour) I came up with one possible monicker, i.e. ''Boscuccia''. It's, as I can't help an early intoxication from that source, somewhatJoycean. and not classical. Saint John Bosco is the patron saint of copyeditors. 'Bosco' of course is a wood, much like the ''selva oscura'' of Dante's incipit, the zone where man errs. -''uccia'' is intended as the feminine of the caressive diminutive suffix-''uccio''. So the neologism would mean, to the philologically adept, 'sweet patroness of the art of copyediting.' (when I was a boy, the clan consensus was that I probably made good jokes, but that you needed a dictionary to work out where the laugh was:). But I toss it your way seriously. Prospective names are best fished up intuitively, in a satori moment that synthesizes unconscious mulling's infinite gameplay. It takes me weeks, sometimes a month, to work out a pet's name from its pristine behavior. Nomen is, after all, an omen, and an amen. (Lucky I'm childless!) Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 19:15, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
:::Where to start? Well, I've got plenty of time to cogitate over the name. I quite like your devious reasoning, but I'm not sure I'll actually use it. I trust that, with enough time, the right answer will come to me. Meanwhile: .... back in the days before internet, I used to translate letters for a group of Quakers who supported political prisoners in oppressive regimes. The prisoners were referred to the group by Amnesty, who wouldn't campaign for prisoners who had used violence. It might look odd for Quakers (who [[Peace Testimony|abhor violence]]) to be doing this but we thought they still deserved support at a personal level, and couldn't condemn their use of violence given the environment in which they found themselves. No shortage of horrific regimes in Latin America, all supported by the US; Chomsky was writing a lot about them at the time. One of the things that caused me difficulty back then, given my lack of knowledge about the Catholic church (no Wikipedia!) was my lamentable ignorance of orders such as the [[Salesians]] or "saints" such as [[John Bosco|Juan Bosco]] and would sometimes have to go down to the library to check. The name Bosco and the Salesians immediately rang a bell, but it took me a while to remember where I had encountered it before.{{pb}}Bosco's article shows a statue of him in [[Ronda]], which brings back memories of cycle-touring in Spain. I had cycled there in one day from [[Gibraltar]], one of the most spectacular routes in  Europe, and a bicycle is the best way to experience it. It was about 80 miles and very hilly, and would not have been possible without the fuel from a huge English breakfast in Gibraltar. The yellow Michelin map was misleading: it correctly showed a 700m climb to about the same altitude as Ronda; what it didn't show was another 3 or 4 valleys with a similar descent/ascent, so I didn't arrive in Ronda till about 10pm (not a problem in Spain, where they start their evening meal at about midnight). But cycling in the dark meant getting a nasty electric shock through the handlebars if I went too fast downhill – the lamp/dynamo system had special circuitry to divert excess power via the bike frame, to avoid blowing the bulb. Worth it, though, for the experience. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 11:08, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

==Email==
Hi. I don't really have any advise to bestow because I no longer possess a firm recollection of the matter. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Regards, [[User:El_C|El_C]] 20:15, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
:No problem, thanks anyway for the reply. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 20:24, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

==Khazars==
Seem to have screwed up at least one thing at Khazars, to gather from the red ink at the bottom of the page. Any ideas? It seems to be connected to my last edit using efn and Miller as a source? Uh, fatigue, fatigue, no more however than what you have to put up with coping with my messes. Best in this dour covid times, as always [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 12:43, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
:OK, I've put in a quick fix for now. Will get the above-mentioned young lady to fix it properly later, once you've finished going through the page. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 13:11, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
::I've screwed up massively because a mass of notes have disappeared from the visible page as I muddle harvid/harvnb/sfn/efn. I'm too exhausted to see to it myself. Perhaps the simplest solution is to  just revert the text to what it was before the damage I inflicted took place. Sorry [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 16:53, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
:::Nah, you didn't really mess anything up, you merely didn't notice the two forms of notes. Well, you did miss out a closing brace pair "}}", which has the potential of being difficult to find and fix (given there were 712 of the little buggers), but mah wee gurl spotted exactly where it was, so no great problem. You actually did quite well at fixing the no-target errors, there's now only one left. Unfortunately the mythical young lady had herself gone down with a couple of bugs, which took her a while to recover from. But she's better now, though the ailments took a while to diagnose. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 02:44, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::::At this point I'm beginning to worry that someone will, with good grounds, dob me in to the flicks for child molestation: due to my recently acquired life status, it looks like she's been struck by co-wid. Thanks pal. Few things are reliable in my world; you two, ungrudgingly patient and helpful, are.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 07:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

== NomdeA SPI ==

In the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Philip_Cross/Archive SPI request] made for [[User_talk:NomdeA | NomdeA]] at the end of 2019 it was noted that geolocation put the operation of the accounts in question at some distance from each other, though the edits were spaced well apart in time. In the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Philip_Giraldi&action=history Philip Girladi] article, there is a much more closely spaced set of edits. Just thought it could possibly be useful to point that out. I have wondered, in any case, how well the SPI investigators can deal with geo-spoofing.  <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 14:36, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
:Oh boy, I've only just seen your message, and taken a quick look at NomdeA's latest contributions, now he really is "extracting the Michael".{{pb}} I think, and have thought, that the NomdeA account has been screaming "SOCKPUPPET" at the top of its voice ever since it started up. We can only speculate re the technical details. I can quickly think of one way it can be done, but that requires a collaborator at the requisite geographical distance (I see that NomdeA is using a mobile - something I hadn't noticed at the time of the SPI) in charge of a mobile device. There are, however, a few edits from the NomdeA account which have not been made from a mobile, and it would be interesting to know what IP addresses they were from. A while ago I had considered raising it via Arbcom rather than SPI, but left it, as A/ the account was not active and B/ the account is under intense scrutiny, both off-wiki and on-wiki.{{pb}} I have no doubt that Cross has the backing of very powerful forces who have the resources to enable him to fool the Checkuser tool, and that there are many ways to do this besides the one I have thought of. I am also aware that so many people have been so pissed off for so long by the way that Cross has, in their view, been abusing Wikipedia that they are considering starting a class action lawsuit against Cross, and probably also against the WMF for allowing the abuse to continue. I wouldn't be surprised if such a court case reveals some very interesting details of how Cross is working.{{pb}} I have to go out very shortly now, but will certainly be looking at this more closely when I get back. Thanks for the note. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 16:12, 21 July 2020 (UTC){{pb}}P.S. For reference, here's a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Philip_Cross&oldid=929058025 permalink] to a version of the original SPI with some additional info. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 14:00, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
::As time passes, the way a lot of current events look to history will look much different to the way they are presented now by the news organisations. I imagine researchers examining diffs to to determine why Wikipedia articles were written the way they were. My guess is that the saga of [[User:Philip_Cross | Philip Cross]] will crop up in in their reports.   <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 21:08, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

== Qui audet vincit. ==

[https://twitter.com/0Calamity/status/1288429068644503554 Some good news, for a change.] --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 13:57, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

<small>(For the record, I contributed to her fundraiser)--[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 13:57, 29 July 2020 (UTC)</small>

:<small>I'm  a great belief in ''qui audit, evincit'' ('those who listen (closely), will overcome obstacles in the end/ though I can't help with Italianized ears overhearing it as 'who listens, makes the right inferences) but I can't listen in here, since my browser is denied Twitter access. But I take your word for it that some lady associated with decency has achieved some improvement in her political ranking.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 17:31, 29 July 2020 (UTC)</small>
:: Well you can read her statement [https://skwawkbox.org/2020/07/29/breaking-stunning-victory-for-heybroek-against-riley-oberman-as-they-withdraw-libel-claim-and-contribute-toward-her-costs/ here] <s>(not surprisingly, the "mainstream" media aren't reporting it)</s>. As a general rule, I dislike lawyers, but she seems to be among the decent sort, who aren't motivated mainly by money and/or status The ''Qui audet vincit'' comes from her tweet introducing the statement. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 18:31, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
:::Oops, I take back that bit about the mainstream media [https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/rachel-riley-tracy-ann-oberman-twitter-high-court-a4511826.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1596039889]. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 19:48, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
::::Proof again, if it were needed, that we live in an Orwellian world. Repulsive, esp. the obsessive use of anti-Semitism claims to oust people you dislike and stack the void with lipserving stooges. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 21:28, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

'''Update:''' Excellent 39-minute video of interview with Jane Heybroek [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkt9xUOg5i0 here]. Might comment further if and when I get some time, but would anyone like to have their house taken off them, just over a re-tweet? UK libel law needs drastic reform. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 17:41, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

===Unbelievable===
The sabotage by senior Labour Party officials against Jeremy Corbyn during his leadership was bad enough. See the [https://cryptome.org/2020/04/Labour-Antisemitism-Report.pdf leaked March 2020 Labour Party Report (851 pages)]], from which it is clear that they worked very hard indeed to ''<u>prevent</u>'' Labour winning the 2017 general election. Now this article (a must-read) appears:
*{{Cite news| title = I saw from the inside how Labour staff worked to prevent a Labour government
 | last = Ryle | first = Joe
 | website = [[openDemocracy]]
 | url = https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-saw-inside-how-labour-staff-worked-prevent-labour-government/
 | date = 7 August 2020 | access-date = 7 August 2020
 | quote = When I'd started previous jobs I'd arrive to some kind of handover notes. But when Corbyn and McDonnell walked in on day one, the small team that had joined after working on Corbyn's leadership campaign turned up to find that someone had prepared for our arrival in a more unconventional way: many of the computers had gone missing and the offices weren't properly set up.{{pb}} "The few computers that were in the office were the oldest ones possible and they kept crashing all the time", a former senior adviser to Jeremy Corbyn tells me. "The situation was so dire that one time after a day on the road with Jeremy I came back to find that a new colleague had taken my screen because he didn't have one."{{pb}} The situation in John McDonnell's offices was even worse. "When we took up the offices they were completely gutted of their contents. There were only half pulled out staples in the walls and bits of blue tack. The desks were without chairs let alone computers and I had to work off my own mobile and laptop", my former colleague James Mills, who was John McDonnell's Head of Communications, remembers all too well.
}}

Now I suppose there's room for legitimate disagreement within any political party over policy, but stealing their office equipment, and trashing what's left? And then doing everything possible to obstruct their work? When they're paid to do the opposite?

I must confess I have a certain tenuous connection with [[Iain McNicol]], who was General Secretary of the Labour Party while this sabotage was going on. He gave himself the title of "Baron McNicol of West Kilbride" when Corbyn nominated him to the House of Lords. I went to the same primary school – in the very same Victorian school building that produced a [[John Boyd Orr|Nobel peace laureate]] – in West Kilbride, and the same secondary school ([[Ardrossan Academy]]) as McNicol did a generation later. Although he uses the handle "[[West Kilbride]]", he actually comes from [https://www.google.com/maps/place/55%C2%B042'00.0%22N+4%C2%B054'00.0%22W/@55.7076172,-4.8830833,1024m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d55.7!4d-4.9?hl=en Thirdpart], which lies about half-way between [[Seamill]] and [[Portencross]], and is not really part of West Kilbride. There was a girl in the same year group as me, all the way through primary and secondary school, who also came from Thirdpart. Her family had a smallholding there (from memory, of about 12 acres), very fertile agricultural land. You could see Thirdpart, about 2 miles away, from my parents' bedroom window. I can remember her first name, but can't be sure of her surname. It's quite likely it was McNicol, but I can't be sure (it was more than half a century ago). So it is quite possible I attended school with McNicol's paternal aunt. She was a nice girl, very likeable, quite a contrast with her appalling nephew (if he really is her nephew).

So it's quite embarrassing to have this connection with McNicol, as I could hardly disapprove more strongly of what he did. As a result of his well-rewarded treachery we now have the worst government in this country since the end of the [[Second World War]]. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 20:36, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
::It's not unique to GB. It's happened to Labour parties the world over as the middle class first thinks of them as vehicles of social reform, and then, is won over to the premise that this means being 'economically sensible' in the sense that that is defined by the rightwing, so one has to rid the party of its historic 'residue' of 'outdated' 'Marxist' beliefs about the 'system'. In doing this they throw the baby out with the bathwater, transforming themselves into essentially the 'responsible' 'realistic', 'pragmatic' voice for the kind of ideology they share with the right wing. As soon as the left shifts to the 'centre', the right swerves further to the right, and new 'left' adapts to that too, trailing after every shift of its historic adversary. The result is the kind of sharp-nosed, Wall-Street accredited hucksterism that tries to root out and rout the Corbyns in their ranks as 'ideological' drift wood that worries 'markets' and undermines prospects of real power. Blair, that clown Renzi in Italy, Trudeau, the pathetic Democrats in the US and the laughable 'centrists' in Israel. A serious modern left went out with the passage of men of the caliber of  Gough Whitlam in Australia, Pierre Trudeau in Canada, and Helmut Schmidt in Germany. What these reformers don't notice is that is being the conservative version of a rightwing vision of the state, they will always be outrun by 'conservatives' on the right who go so far right that they end up embracing, in their rhetoric, a kind of radical populism that appeals to the struggling social majority which once constituted the basis of socialist parties. The result is a paradox, with, discursively, the Right seizing the left's historic constituencies, while the 'left' woos the residual metropolitan middle class.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 16:09, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

== Suggestion: Write an essay? ==

I skimmed {{slink||Citation and referencing style}}, and I only have a vague idea of what LHT and ETVP mean. I suggest that you write an essay in a new subpage of your userspace that succinctly defines the terms and gives examples, as in [[WP:CS]] and [[WP:CT]]. My first impression is that you have "[[Bury the lead|buried the lead]]" in {{slink||Citation and referencing style}}. I am sympathetic to what appears to be your support for citation style diversity. [[User:Biogeographist|Biogeographist]] ([[User talk:Biogeographist|talk]]) 15:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

:No, I won't, but I do intend eventually to set up some documentation for ETVP, as noted in my recent [[#Update, August 2020|update]] to the long thread above. I've already made a start on this at [[User:NSH001/ETVP/examples]]. Note that /examples is a sub-page of /ETVP, which is itself a sub-page of my user page. I started with /examples, as looking at actual examples is often the best way of understanding how something works. Note that the documentation will eventually require many different subpages, which will all be under the /ETVP sub-page.{{pb}}The thread above was never intended to act as a documentation page. Rather it started off as a thread like any other, but when Doc James didn't respond, it slowly developed into a place where I could dump my frustration at the ovewhelming presence on Wikipedia of the [[User talk:NSH001#dungheap citation style|dungheap citation style]]. Nevertheless the terms you mention are clearly bolded where they're first mentioned, and there is enough there to get at least a basic understanding of what it's about. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 22:10, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

== Where did I screw up ==

in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nishidani/Birkat_HaMinim_draft  my recent draft] in my sandbox which redlinks Kimelman as some problem at 'position 37'? [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 12:43, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
:Mah wee gurl refused to start work on your draft, complaining that there were 128 closing bracket pairs ("]]"), but only 126 opening ones. This type of error is usually quite easy to fix, since the superfluous bracket pairs will display quite openly on the visible page, and all one needs to do is ctrl-F to find them. In doing so, I noticed that you had misused {{tl|lang-ar}}, which normally should only be used to display actual Arabic script (obvious, really, since the template is there to tell your browser, and any other software like spell-checkers and screen readers for the blind, that it's dealing with a foreign language and not English). So I fixed that, and added the transliteration option, which I think was your original intention. The other offender was a "[ [" which should have read "[[", hence was not recognised as an opening bracket pair.{{pb}}The error you mentioned is almost certainly an invisible unicode control character; this usually happens when you copy-paste from Microsoft Word or similar word processor. You can get rid of it, as I've explained before, by using the backspace or delete key (the message even tells you exactly where it is), but I didn't bother, as mah wee gurl now handles it.{{pb}}As usual, she has offered up the usual delicious array of red question marks for your delectation. <abbr title="Smiling face" style="border-bottom: none;">[[File:Face-smile.svg|18px|link=]]</abbr> --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 16:25, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks pal, and give a virtual bunch of roses to the little sheila. I don't presume to understand what you wrote, but since I can now see the problems in red, I don't really need to:)[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:44, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

== Books & Bytes – Issue 40 ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">
<div style = "color: #936c29; font-size: 4em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">
[[File:Wikipedia Library owl.svg|80px|link=The Wikipedia Library]] '''The Wikipedia Library'''
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<div style = "line-height: 1.2">
<span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">'''''Books & Bytes'''''</span><br />
Issue 40, July – August 2020
</div>
<div style = "margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em">
* New partnerships
** Al Manhal
** Ancestry
** RILM
* #1Lib1Ref May 2020 report
* AfLIA hires a Wikipedian-in-Residence

<big>'''[[:m:The Wikipedia Library/Newsletter/July-August_2020|Read the full newsletter]]'''</big>
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<small>Sent by [[m:User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --10:14, 10 September 2020 (UTC)</small>
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== Precious anniversary ==
{{User QAIbox/auto|years=Seven}} --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 06:18, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

:Thanks {{u|Gerda Arendt|Gerda}}, your thought and care is always very much appreciated. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 07:24, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Brilliant ==

i.e.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Salah_Hamouri&diff=next&oldid=979530440 this], making me burst out laughing on what is, otherwise, a painful anniversary. Sorry for the bovver my hapless negligence causes (and probably always will cause).[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 11:36, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
: Thanks. It's a small consolation that the pain will diminish with time, though it never goes away completely. I lost my mother (to breast cancer) when I was only 28. It still hurts to think about it after so many years, but I know she would have wanted me to get on with my life, after shedding a few tears. No need to apologise about your "negligence", you're a great asset to have in helping me develop my script, even if unwittingly. And it's a pleasure to help you develop your articles quickly without your having to use up valuable time worrying about technical niceties. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 15:31, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
::Were I to say at what age I lost mine, it would seem like vying. But bugger it. I never celebrate  my birthday because she died to the hour two decades precisely after she bore me, and only had a moment to set her face with a smile for those who would find her. A remarkable generation. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 21:29, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
::: [[Patrick Cockburn]], [https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/06/the-assange-extradition-case-is-an-unprecedented-attack-on-press-freedom-so-whys-the-media-largely-ignoring-it/ 'The Assange Extradition Case is an Unprecedented Attack on Press Freedom, So Why’s the Media Largely Ignoring It?,'] [[CounterPunch]] 6 October 2020.(' The US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, says that non-Americans like Assange do not enjoy First Amendment rights to free expression.') I understand thugs pretty will, dickheads in power who don't know the meaning, if any, of the sentences they spout. What is harder to grasp is the average inability to perceive the obvious.  Like our olfactory senses, this hunter's capacity to interpret the spours in one's environment to work out what is going on, seems to have been elided as one of the collateral side effects of civilization. Evolution as devolution, or should that be devolition? [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 15:15, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
::::Wow, there's a coincidence, was reading that very article before I clicked on Wikipedia and saw your message. Might reply later, as I'm about to go out to do some shopping. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 15:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

== Request for Peer Review ==
Hello! I am currently editing an article, [[Cannabis in Brunei]], for a university assignment. The article has been significantly edited by another Wikipedia user, specifically regarding the references and in-text citations/endnotes (I originally used Turabian style sourcing, but the user has changed this). However, the user did not explain what specifically was incorrect within the original citations that I inserted into the articles–as a student I would like to understand what I could improve upon. A fellow university peer of mine stated that YOU have significantly aided them in editing their citations, therefore I am kindly asking if you could check out the [[Cannabis in Brunei]] article, and let me know what I could fix within the citations? I understand that you might be quite busy, therefore I understand if this peer-review is not possible, but it would be greatly appreciated. –[[User:KatKucing|KatKucing]] ([[User talk:KatKucing|talk]]) 02:51, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
:Replied on KatKucing's talk page. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 10:04, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

== Books & Bytes – Issue 41 ==

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Issue 41, September – October 2020
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== paywalls and other things ==

Sorry for the late response here to your request for a Haaretz article directed a third person on a fourth person's talk page, but I feel you should know that if you are a chrome or firefox user and are ok with loading unpacked extensions then you should google "bypass paywalls github" and select your browser of choice. Cheers, <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<span style="color:#C11B17">nableezy</span>]]''' - 15:41, 11 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
:Thanks for that, Nab. In fact {{u|Selfstudier}} did kindly respond, very promptly, to my request, so I now have a way of accessing Haaretz articles (thank you, Selfstudier). I'll take a look at "bypass paywalls github", as it sounds as though it may be useful for accessing other paywalled sites. No need to apologise for a late response – if anyone's slow around here, it's me! --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 22:14, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

== Via ==

The source has this:

::This T.M.C.ASSER PRESS imprint is published by the registered company Springer-Verlag GmbH, DE partof Springer Nature.

I put Springer, Levivich changed it to Asser, so I put via Springer.

What do you suggest? [[User:Selfstudier|Selfstudier]] ([[User talk:Selfstudier|talk]]) 10:37, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
:I would simply leave it as it is. It is common for publishing companies to have several imprints, and as far as I am aware, the normal practice is to state the imprint. I've always regarded an imprint as a publishing company in its own right, one that tends to be more specialised than its parent. Also, see the the CS1/2 cite template documentation for the correct usage of {{para|via}}. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 13:06, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

== Weird problem ==

Hi, when I open up the Names section of Palestinian enclaves, I can't edit the efn notes in this part, they are just not displaying. it's fine everywhere else including elsewhere in the section. Any ideas? Shows like this:

Nevertheless, notable Israelis and Americans have used the word to describe the enclaves including [[Moshe Dayan]],{{efn|name=Dayan}} [[Ariel Sharon]],{{efn|name=Sharon}} [[Colin Powell]],{{sfn|''Haaretz''|2004}} [[Martin Indyk]],{{efn|name=Indyk}} [[Daniel Levy (political analyst)|Daniel Levy]],{{sfn|Levy|2020}} [[Amos Elon]],{{sfn|Levy|2020}} [[Gershom Gorenberg]],{{sfn|Gorenberg|2006|p=153}} [[I. F. Stone]],{{efn|name=Stone}} [[Avi Primor]],{{efn|name=Primor}} [[Ze'ev Schiff]],{{sfn|Slater|2001|pp=171–199}} [[Meron Benvenisti]],{{efn|name=Benvenisti}} [[Yuval Shany]]{{sfn|Shany|2019}} and [[Akiva Eldar]],{{efn|name=Eldar}}.

[[User:Selfstudier|Selfstudier]] ([[User talk:Selfstudier|talk]]) 22:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
{{Reflist}}
:I've just tried it, and it seems to work OK for me, allowing for the quirk you get while section-editing in Preview mode, that the efns are superscripted a,b,c,... but are displayed in the list as 1,2,3,.. I'll run my ETVP script in a moment to see if that makes a difference for you. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 22:54, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

<small>(bit to get rid of ref errors on this page){{efn|name=Dayan|blah}}{{efn|name=Sharon|blah}}{{efn|name=Indyk|blah}}{{efn|name=Stone|blah}}{{efn|name=Primor|blah}}{{efn|name=Benvenisti|blah}}{{efn|name=Eldar|blah}}</small>
:Hum, no luck, I will try in another browser and see if that helps.[[User:Selfstudier|Selfstudier]] ([[User talk:Selfstudier|talk]]) 07:15, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
::Not unexpected, but worth a try (plus I would be running it sooner or later anyway). I'm mostly using Firefox, BTW. Does it work OK if you edit the whole page, instead of just the section? --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 07:31, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
:::I use Firefox as well, tried it in Chrome, same. If I edit whole page, same, I can see all the other efn and edit them no problem. I can see them on the article page, the pop up works, everything works, I just can't see or edit those few efn's in edit mode for some reason:( [[User:Selfstudier|Selfstudier]] ([[User talk:Selfstudier|talk]]) 13:01, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
::::{{u|Selfstudier}} Perhaps I'm assuming you know the obvious? Named efns work just like named refs (which is what they are under the lid). Compare <code><nowiki><ref name=foo></nowiki>text of citation...</ref></code> with <code><nowiki><ref name=foo /></nowiki></code>. In both cases you can only edit them once, wherever they happen to be defined. If you don't know where they're defined, you can either edit the whole page and do a ctrl+F search, or just follow the backlinks in the "Notes" section. It's also possible to define them in the {{tl|notelist}} template using {{para|refs}}, just like you can do for named refs using [[WP:LDR|list-defined references]] in the {{tl|reflist}} template. The underlying mechanism is identical. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 14:18, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::Crap. That never even occurred to me. I suppose because it is early on in the page, and I don't usually see efn used more than once in an article, I just assumed....duh, never assume. Thank ye. I think I might still reorder them tho so that it's first use.[[User:Selfstudier|Selfstudier]] ([[User talk:Selfstudier|talk]]) 15:14, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

== Books & Bytes - Issue 42 ==

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Issue 42, November – December 2020
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== Ezra Nawi r.i.p ==

Thanks for picking up on Nawi's death and adding that section. Somehow I missed that, though every few months I always checked to see if anything about that extraordinary Noble Peace Prize winner manqué, had caught the distracted eyes of the news media. Perhaps I missed it because he died within a few days of my close cousin's death, and on the day of his funeral and I didn't waste much time on the net at the time.

I was reading Seneca's 70th epistle last night and was mulling over, as a result, that praeternatural ability to watch and indeed even inflict pain or suffering with the kind of blank nonchalance typified by Israeli soldiers who patrol the South Hebron area and assist settlers in tormenting simple herders out of their biblical wilderness. In that letter, Seneca recounts the case of a German who, captured, was taken in chains  back to Rome and forced to become a gladiator. The task assigned him was to slaughter (or be slaughtered by) wild animals imported from Africa. In the 'normal' world, at least, one might think,  bravery in arms against mere 'beasts' was better than nothing. Something however must have stuck in his craw, to make a bad pun. Perhaps engaging in exterminatory cruelty to an endless array of animals to the applause and delight of snacking Romans relieving their taedium vitae by a bit of macabre voyeurism on afternoons. In any case, there was only one moment in the day of such gladiators when they could sneak away from the meticulous surveillance (as valuable tradable goods among sports entrepreneurs etc.) they were subjected to. He asked permission to go to the craphouse before his turn on the Coliseum's stage came up. Once accorded permission, he entered the cesspit, and stuck the sponge-tipped stick (''lignum..adhaerente spongia'' from memory) used for scrubbing the shithole there, right down his throat, and choked himself to death rather than do his job of killing creatures. Nawi had that kind of nature, and was never forgiven. There is something very Roman about the IDF and its ritual desensitivization of human instincts: in hundreds of reports of Nawi haranguing these kids, I've only encountered one case among what must be thousands, of a lad looking on, and allowing a glance of perplexity to cross his brow, when the evil they were innocuously doing as a matter of duty was carefully pointed out by that remarkable, simple, humble decent man. I've never read any account of diasporic life where this obtuse moral insouciance emerges as typical.   [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 14:24, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
:Mornin' {{u|Nishidani|Nishi}}, hope you're keeping well, sorry about your cousin.
:
: On Nawi, I saw that the article had been routinely updated following his death (changes of tense, cats, etc) but no-one had bothered to provide any cite for his death. So I did.
:
: On the links to Haaretz, I think I know why they appear to be free-to-read to you, but not to me, namely that you have your browser set to disable cookies (either specifically for Haaretz, or more generally), whereas I, being lazy, just accept cookies regardless. So I can access Haaretz by the simple expedient of opening a "private" window, or just using a different browser where cookies haven't been set. I therefore propose restoring marking Haaretz access as "subscription"; I don't think that Haaretz's making it easy to bypass is a reason not to do so.
:
: As it happens, I'm currently reading (amongst others) Sven Lindqvist's book ''"Exterminate all the Brutes"'' after [[Helena Cobban|Helena]] [https://justworldnews.org/2020/07/26/to-zinder/ drew my attention to it]. I really can't better Cobban's summary at that link. I'll just note that the British officers must have been influenced by Roman/classical education that they received at the elite, very expensive and very militarized public schools they were brought up in. Heart(s) of Darkness, indeed.
:
:Oh, and while you're here, could I prevail on you to take a look at [[Treaty of Versailles]]? There are some poor sections there on both Japan and Italy, which could benefit from the attention of someone more knowledgeable than I on those two countries. Many thanks. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 10:43, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
::I found that the subscription format cancelled my ability to read all those articles, and I had to take the title and google it, on which Haaretz gave me the content, which I then had to download for private copies, since otherwise all of the verification I need to do in tinkering with the article would be, with the subscription model, impossible. Only one blighter refused to yield up the goods. Apart from that, I hate any red signaling that flashes for the reader a  problem, on pages that strive to be written so that all outstanding problems are solved. As soon as I see'em, as your marking of the aboriginal articles enables me to detect them, I fix them. I don't know why I can use the standard Haaretz url. I accept cookies whenever I'm asked to.
::I think the British ferocity predates the classical school system - most of the murderers who committed  genocides in Ireland, apart from that fairy Spenser, weren't literate. Classics did have an odd effect: fluency in Greek and Latin exposed youth to a vast panorama of what the humourless call obscenity, even though many editions had to be edited in a bowdlerized form to erase all of the 'gross' bits in Catullus, Juvenal, Horace et al., not to speak of the outrageously funny Aristophanes. So you had the paradoxical creation of a puritanical society training its sons on pornography!
::I'll try to flick a shufti at the Versailles page, but can't guarantee much at the mo' given some fine weather demanding delightfully heavy garden toils, and that springy jilt to the mind incipient spring always gives, so that one turns one's thoughts to serious offwiki projects. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 13:27, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

== Books & Bytes – Issue 42 ==

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== Gramps screws up again and is putting out an advert requesting the services of any Sad Sack with a decent code-mop ==

Hi Neil. See my latest mess on [[Khazars]]. Cheers, pal. Hope it's not too much bovver [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 14:06, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

:Good evening, young man. Yeah, that was a bit tricky. I'm not sure what language 突厥可薩部 is, so I didn't attempt to fix it, but I'm sure you can follow one of the models I used for the preceding languages.
:
: Someone added a bunch of stuff a while back in Chinese, which made it hard to run my script on it. Can't remember now what I did, but it was something like remove the stuff I can't read, run the script, put it back in again. Might help if you were able to clean it up a bit.
:
:It's a nice sunny day, so I'm going out for a long walk now, combined with some shopping. See you later, enjoy the Khazars!
:
:--[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 15:54, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
::Only bother was the classical Greek ethnoym which was tossed out as being a modern Greek word when it ain't. The in text Chinese can stay, unless someone has fiddled round and wrecked the glosses I put in when I did the article. I'll check them one day. Enjoy stretching the pins. and thanks [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 18:08, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
:::Ah, silly me, I was so anxious to get out I didn't think to look at the red ink at the bottom of the page. That would have been trivially easy to fix (as someone else has already done). Oops! Mustard mitt I wondered what the problem really was, and got bogged down with the tricky detail at the start. Worth doing anyway, I think, so not a waste of time, merely delayed my walk a few minutes. Very pleasant day for a walk, but didn't get to see any of the beautiful deer in the forest.
:
:::Some good news: my weight loss programme has been so successful that I've been able to come off my long-term blood pressure meds completely. I was expecting to be able to reduce the dose, so a nice surprise to be shot of them. The bad news is that another hernia has appeared, this time on the other side. Was able to get an appointment to see the specialist surgeon very quickly, I am much more impressed with him than the guy who did the op the last time. There is a possibility he might be able to fix whatever went wrong last time, but the scan he arranged turned out to be not of much help. Likely to be a long wait for the operation, thanks to Covid. We shall see.
:
:::--[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 20:34, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
::::Another pleasant surprise this morning. The tree the other side of the road from my humble abode has finally come out in full blossom, at last. I thought there might have been something wrong with it, as it's been blossoming the last 2 weeks or so, but only on a very small scale. It's a spectacular sight, massive white blossom on a tree the height of a 5-storey building. Sadly it will only last about a week or so, but it lifts the spirits to see it. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 08:08, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
:::::Coincidence. I noted for the first time this morning, in a monastery garden above me where only cypresses tower, a cherry tree in full frilly blossom, virtually overnight, one that had never blossomed or done so, so  discretely one never noticed it among the cypresses. While enjoying the prospect with a neighbour I caught sight of a turtle dove  biding its time, to and fro, in my upper gardens. Some weeks back, my neighbor told me a cat had climbed a tree in my kitchenfront garden where a pair had been nesting. I had to erect a complex net of fragile branches around it, up a metre and a half, so if the cat retried that lurk, it would leap onto false branches and fall out of the tree and leave the turtle doves to their eggs.  It appears to have worked, because, making myself invisible, I noted that the turtle dove skirting my gardens finally flew back into the tree (which I wanted to chainsaw this spring but have had to delay doing so). The world's a dark place: gardens - and watching what happens in them - do indeed keep the spirit up. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 10:00, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

== Books & Bytes – Issue 43 ==

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Issue 43, March – April 2021
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==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Category:Basque triathletes]]==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]

A tag has been placed on [[:Category:Basque triathletes]] indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a [[:Category:Disambiguation categories|disambiguation category]], a [[:Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories|category redirect]], a [[:Category:Wikipedia featured topics categories|featured topics category]], under discussion at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion|Categories for discussion]], or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under [[WP:CSD#C1|section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion]]. 

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Category:Basque triathletes|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. <!-- Template:Db-catempty-notice --> <!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 14:47, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

==Deletion nom for [[List of peace activists]]==
The discussion [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of peace activists]] may be of interest you as a major contributor to the page. [[User:Randy Kryn|Randy Kryn]] ([[User talk:Randy Kryn|talk]]) 12:50, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
:Thanks for the note. Astonishing that anyone would even consider deleting it! --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 06:26, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

== harvnb referencing ==

Hello, Nishidani recommended I ask you. Refs like at [[Shakespeare authorship question]], is there some reftoolbar like tool to do them with, or is there some method to make it easier? [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 18:39, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
:{{u|Gråbergs Gråa Sång}}, sorry for the delay in replying, the reason will be clear in a moment. The answer is "yes, sort of, but ...": I have (or had) a script that does this sort of thing, but so far it has always been private to me; I am happy (within reason) to run it on a specific article for anyone who asks nicely. On the other hand, I don't want to be overwhelmed with such requests, which is why I haven't been advertising it. For more info, see the very long [[#Citation_and_referencing_style|"Citation and referencing style"]] thread above, where the ETVP script is mentioned.
:
: Unfortunately, [[Houston, we have a problem]]: my excellent 9-year-old laptop died, not repairable according to my nearest computer repair shop (and I believe them). Even worse, I had neglected to take a backup. How stupid can you get? I thought I had completely lost my script, and had resigned myself to having to write it all again from scratch. Got quite depressed at having "lost" so much work (not just the script: my Thunderbird e-mail database (2 million emails, going back to the 1990s), hundreds of spreadsheets, Word documents, PDFs, simple text notes, etc., etc.). But I did manage (eventually) to dig them all back out of the grave. Heave big sigh of relief. Too soon – it never occured to me that the script wouldn't work under Windows 10! Perhaps it might, but I'm not willing to put in the time to find out. It uses three pieces of software: the first ("A") I've been wanting to ditch for years, and had already done some heavy lifting work towards that end, which also had the nice bonus of speeding my script up by a factor of two. The second bit of software ("B") has had a major update, which I would like to take advantage of, but the first bit (A) requires me to stick with the earlier version. So I thought I might as well do it now: (a) remove all dependency on A and (b) refactor the script to be able to use the new release of B. Even if it means I won't be able to use the script for several weeks while I'm working on it.
:
:So the answer is: watch this space!
:
: --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 11:02, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

::Thank you! I have various stuff stored on external harddrives, problem is that like lightbulbs, they die. Problem generally solved, see second half of [[User_talk:Xover#Help_me_out?]]. What still bugs me is some sort of good how/why guidance on this type of referencing for newer editors. You won't find it at [[User:Nick Moyes/Easier Referencing for Beginners]] or [[Help:Introduction]]. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 11:22, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

== Format probs agin ==

Hello there , Neil. Hope this finds you well. 
I think you once helped me out with a template to make normal blue names of people mentioned, who have a wiki article but in another language.  Apparently the convention has changed. In an article I’m writing now, for example, these don’t work. Have I just forgotten the template you provided me with (which used to work)?
:it|Carla Rossi (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carla_Rossi)
:fr|En attendant Nadeau (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/En_attendant_Nadeau)
:fr| Daniel Bougnoux (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Bougnoux)
:fr Marc Goldschmit (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Goldschmit)
:de|Erik Reger (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Reger)

We should really be global and use  interwiki just as we link within the English version.

Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 13:41, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
:No problem. I took a 20 minute nap, which I often do to solve puzzles like this.
*[[it:Carla Rossi|Carla Rossi]]
*[[fr:En attendant Nadeau|En attendant Nadeau]] 
*[[fr:Daniel Bougnoux|Daniel Bougnoux]] 
*[[fr: Marc Goldschmit|Marc Goldschmit]] 
*[[de:Erik Reger|Erik Reger]]. 
:That's what you taught me - a lesson learnt and forgotten, and retrieved.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 14:36, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

::Ah, not quite. Makes no difference on a talk page (such as this page), but in mainspace omitting the colon has the effect of changing the interwiki link under "Languages" in the side bar on the left, i.e., linking '''the whole page''' to the foreign target, not just the wikilink. You need to put a colon before the xx: at the start, like so
::* <code><nowiki>[[:it:Carla Rossi|Carla Rossi]]</nowiki></code> ('''not''' <code><nowiki>[[it:Carla Rossi|Carla Rossi]]</nowiki></code>, as you did in the above list).
:
::But this trick could be criticised as misleading readers into thinking that there is an article on en:wp, when there isn't. To solve this problem, you have the choice of the {{tl|ILL}} (=Inter-language link) template: 
:
::* <code><nowiki>{{ILL|En attendant Nadeau|fr}}</nowiki></code>, which displays as {{ILL|En attendant Nadeau|fr}}. 
:
::Unlike the first choice, it will display correctly as soon as someone creates an article for it on en:wp, but this can be a mixed blessing, for example <code><nowiki>{{ILL|Carla Rossi|it}}</nowiki></code>→ {{ILL|Carla Rossi|it}} leads you to the wrong Carla Rossi. In this case, the first choice is your only alternative! {{lang|de|Wer die Wahl hat, hat auch die Qual}}, as I was taught as a schoolboy, in my first term of German. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 16:48, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
:::Thanks but damnit. I much prefer the first example, and am tempted to be wahl-eared and go for the aesthetic quality of a  visually neat page. Really, what diff does it make if a reader clicks and finds a page in a different language or just 'sees red', which means no info, pal, stiff cheddar? After all there's google translate or something isn't there. Thanks again.  [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 20:32, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
::::Well, #2 still gives you the link to the other wp, but anyone who doesn't like redlinks probably won't like it. Neither solution is perfect, plus there's always the option of not linking at all. I just choose whichever feels best to me at the time. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 23:16, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
::::{{u|Nishidani}} – also worth noting that you should never use {{tl|ILL}} inside a citation template. The reason is set out by our useful friend Trappist [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title{{=}}User_talk:Trappist_the_monk&oldid{{=}}1031308785#:de: here]. But you can still use <code><nowiki>| author-link = :it:Carla Rossi</nowiki></code> to link to an author from a cite template. Nice and easy, but don't forget the first colon. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 14:25, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
:::You can make that work but it's extra tricky in this case <nowiki>{{ill|Carla Rossi (philologist)|it|Carla Rossi|lt=Carla Rossi}}</nowiki> → {{ill|Carla Rossi (philologist)|it|Carla Rossi|lt=Carla Rossi}} [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 12:08, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
::::Ah, you're right, I hadn't noticed that {{tl|ILL}} allows for disambiguation (on first sight I was annoyed at the poor design of that template, so didn't bother to look more closely). Even that isn't a perfect solution, as you still get the same potential problems that might arise with any disambiguation. I've only just noticed that you've already used this construction at [[John Florio]]! --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 13:51, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::ILL is an aquired taste, no question. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 14:53, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

== Thank you ==
{{User QAIbox
| image = Daisy, Ehrenbach.jpg
| image_upright = 0.8
}}
... for what you said on [[User talk:SlimVirgin]] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gerda_Arendt&oldid=1031060378 missing pictured on my talk], with music full of hope and reformation --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 18:57, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
:Thank you, {{u|Gerda Arendt|Gerda}}, for your care and thought, always appreciated. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 07:43, 1 July 2021 (UTC) – PS I think you meant "pictures", not "pictured"?

== Books & Bytes – Issue 45 ==

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Issue 45, May – June 2021
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* Library design improvements continue
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== Screwing up again ==

Seems my latest edit at [[Wadi Qana]] messed up the ARIJ sources though I didn't touch them. Compare pre and post page versions. Any suggestions (other than some persuasive Latinate advice eg ''Extrahere digitum e podice tibi necesse est, Nishidane'') pal?[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 17:29, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
:Err, well you [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wadi_Qana&diff=next&oldid=1036779954 duplicated] the ARIJ cite, and at the same time removed the Friends of the Earth 2013 cite, which has two sfns pointing to it. I copied the latter back in (for now, in case you really do want it, and to avoid any red q marks), and told my mythical young lady to get on with it. So she did her usual fixes; she's a happy girl, as she loves deleting duplicates, and everything is now neat and clean. BTW, not often I get to see the use of the marked vocative case... --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 22:59, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
::Thanks, N and an affectionate pat for the systemizing sylph.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 16:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

== Making the world safe for democracy. We can all sleep easily in our beds tonight ==

<blockquote>the family’s safety was under constant threat to the point when an embassy security guard confessed he had been told to steal one of the baby’s nappies so that a CIA-contracted company could analyse its DNA. There has been a stream of unpublicised threats against Stella and her children.[[John Pilger]] over at Counterpunch</blockquote>

I read a lot of novels and poetry, but, in correspondence the other day, I suggested that the creativity of reality far outstripped our imagination, making art, let alone the exercise of rationality, pointless or perhaps just a hobby for a baker's dozen of oddballs in every ''normal'' crowd.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 15:34, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

:Oh, the Americans are quite "into" the latest science; read [https://www.wired.com/2012/02/jsoc-ambinder/ this] about Iraq,  2007-8:  "There were teams of U.S. intelligence officers who were trying to get as many fingerprints, DNA samples and so forth of anyone in Baghdad as they could. The analysts would be able to create link analysis charts from them.

:If you captured Abu So-and-So, you'd be able to say within a minute, "Hey, I know your uncle is this person, who we really want to get to. If you can tell me where this person is right now, we'll give you a break and even let you go." And often, that would be what Abu So-and-So would do, because it would be in his best interest. Within maybe 20 minutes, JSOC could launch a second raid targeting the uncle of Abu So-and-So." Fishing-expeditions indeed, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 22:36, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

== Books & Bytes – Issue 46 ==

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Issue 46, July – August 2021
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== Precious anniversary ==
{{User QAIbox/auto|years=Eight}} --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 07:41, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

:Thank you, {{u|Gerda Arendt|Gerda}}, for your thought and kindness. As always, very much appreciated. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 11:47, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== How'ya doen there, ol' son? ==
:[Copying the earlier fragment of this conversation from [[User talk:Nishidani#Labour party conference]] (16:38, 10 October 2021 (UTC))]:
::The good news is that I'm finally getting my hernia fixed, the surgery is scheduled for Saturday. Beginning to get a bit nervous about it, as it's an operation under general anaesthetic, and since I'm a dinosaur like you they want to keep me in overnight, which is fine by me in case there are any complications (it takes 90mins to get to the hospital from here). Gave a COVID test sample this morning, and I'm under strict instructions to self-isolate till Saturday. The backlog due to ops being cancelled because of COVID means I've had to wait about 5 months longer than normal, during which time the hernia has got a lot bigger (no pain at all, fortunately). Better late than never.&nbsp;...  --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 16:24, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
:::Expecting to see you hale and hearty in short order, cruzar los dedos:)[[User:Selfstudier|Selfstudier]] ([[User talk:Selfstudier|talk]]) 00:30, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
::::Thanks for the kind wishes, S. I have some idea what to expect, since I had a hernia fixed on the other side, several years ago. No pain at all if you don't move, but as soon as you move, agonising pain. That stage lasts about 2 days. Pain then gradually reduces over about a week. I was warned not to do any exercise for a week, but it took longer than that before I was able to return to the gym. But there are some differences from last time: (a) I have more confidence in this surgeon than the one who did it last time; (b) this time they're using [[laparoscopic]] surgery instead of the crude, old-fashioned method; but (c) the hernia is about 4 times bigger because of the COVID delay. So we shall see. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 06:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
::::'''update''': I've just had a phone call from the hospital. For some reason, the surgeon is unable to operate tomorrow, so it's been put back to Sunday, and I'll still be around here till then. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 16:14, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
:[End of earlier fragment]

Though I can't speak for others, a few of us must be wondering, as I certainly am, about your convalescence. No need to publish private details. But a word that you're come through the ordeal would be appreciated. it's hard enough editing here, without the larger and more important issue of friends under stress weighing on one's mind. Best wishes, Neil. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 10:15, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

:Evenin', y'auld rascal! Don't worry, I almost died, but I'm still here. Current state of brain function remains sub-optimal though. Those anaesthetics really mess up one's mind. Got home yesterday, but didn't feel able to write anything coherent.
:When they phoned to tell me the surgery had been postponed for a day, I had assumed I would still be getting the same surgeon, so I was surprised they sprang a new one on me. I was looking forward to having the original surgeon, as we'd built up a relationship, and I trusted him. Not good, but having got this far, I wan't going to turn back. Had the surgery on Sunday afternoon, at first everything looked fine, but after a few hours a lump appeared again, almost as big as the original hernia. Was surprised when the (male) nurse dismissed it as not important (BTW, I have the highest praise for all the nursing staff; but this guy was definitely an exception). The most likely explanations were either (a) the hernia repair had failed or (b) internal bleeding (it very definitely wasn't what is described in [[haematoma|this aticle]]). Falling blood pressure and falling blood counts were pointing to internal bleeding. Sent me for an immediate MRI scan, which seemed to confirm the internal bleeding diagnosis. According to other patients in the ward, I looked in a pretty bad state. They called the surgeon back in, and I went in for emergency surgery at 10pm. Very scary talk with anaesthetist about all the horrible possibilities that they might find had gone wrong – worst case scenario being weeks in [[intensive care unit|intensive care]]. They replaced the mesh in a different position, stemmed the main bleeding, inserted a drain to get rid of excess blood, put me on I/V drugs to reduce bleeding. Plus a transfusion of red blood cells. So I'm now definitely on the mend, and internal bleeding has either ceased, or is negligible.
:Interesting to compare how medical technology has changed since last time. Laparascopic surgery definitely reduces the pain levels. I've decided to come off the pain killers completely, since they mess up one's digestive system, and the small level of pain is easily tolerable. Should probably have done that sooner.
:Well, that's probably enough info for now. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 19:26, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
::Jeezus mate, fuck. Sheer incompetence put you through the wringer. I myself was 1 hour from death several years ago on an operating table so it's not rhetorical to say I grasp the situation you found yourself in. This is a great relief. I've been wondering all day with some anxiety. Well, chum, steady as she goes. Take it easy. Give wiki the flick arse for at least a month, and even then, don't trouble too much about getting back on duty and its duress here. Of course, once one's gets over that aspect of this joint, it does afford one comic relief, even in its pathetic moments. Best wishes for a speedy recovery [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 21:18, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

== Books & Bytes – Issue 47 ==

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Issue 47, September – October 2021
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== ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message ==

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== Notice of neutral point of view noticeboard discussion ==

[[File:Information icon4.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. {{{{{|safesubst:}}}#if:{{{thread|}}}|The thread is [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#{{{thread|}}}|{{{thread}}}]]. }}{{{{{|safesubst:}}}#if:{{{1|}}}|The discussion is about the topic [[:{{{1}}}]].}}<!--Template:NPOVN-notice--> Thank you.<noinclude>
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== Books & Bytes – Issue 48 ==

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Issue 48, November – December 2021
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== A sad day today ==

It's a nice sunny day today, but today is the anniversary of my mother's death. A long and painful death from cancer. I won't say what age she would have been today, except that it is well over 100. She loved me, and that's all that matters. Thank you, Mother. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 12:52, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
::Jeezus, I missed that Neil, but the note,now read,was particularly poignant for me, not least because my sister-in-law, who suffered from dementia, and whom I could help care for these last few years because on her separation she bought the house next to us, was hit by Covid, and died last week. Ritual, we learn with age, is important, and finding out that she couldn't be dressed for the funeral, but was packed naked into a sack, that was sewn up, before the coffin was delivered, exacerbated the grief. Fortunately, her three children are ornaments to the superb quality of her motherhood.
::But I am writing re the news, on Once's page, that you're up for another bout of surgery. Best wishes, as before, for that, and auguries that you are back on your feet soon. Keep us posted, and I'll be thinking especially of you throughout tomorrow. Best wishes mate. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 10:39, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Books & Bytes – Issue 49 ==

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Issue 49, January – February 2022
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== Books & Bytes – Issue 51 ==

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== Books & Bytes – Issue 52 ==

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== Books & Bytes – Issue 53 ==

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== Books & Bytes – Issue 54 ==

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== Books & Bytes – Issue 56 ==

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Issue 56, March – April 2023
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== Books & Bytes – Issue 57 ==

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== Precious anniversary ==
{{User QAIbox/auto|years=Nine}}
--[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 06:34, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you {{u|Gerda Arendt|Gerda}}, your kindness and thoughtfulness are appreciated, as always. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 07:30, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
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== In case anyone's worried ... ==

... about my surgery on Sunday 6th, the operation went "perfectly" so I'm told (and I believe them). The final op (and least serious) in a series of 3 to deal with kidney stones and bladder stones. Strangely, this time I had no pain at all with the kidney stones, in stark contrast to the kidney stones I had 25+ yrs ago, where the pain was excruciating (think of a bad toothache – abcess under the tooth – 10 times worse).

So that's the kidney stones dealt with at last. Ditto the hernia (except the gruesome after-effects of the op took several weeks to clear up).

But those are the least of my medical problems, and I still have at least one more op to come (probably more, but it will depend on test results). Don't worry, it's not cancer.

I've lost count of the number of ops I've had since the beginning of October (about 6, I think, but I'll need to check my medical papers to be sure).

It seems that it takes about 3 days for the effects of the anaesthetic to wear off (made it almost impossible to type in my password correctly on first attempt).

--[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 10:22, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
::That's great news, N. I remember when I couldn't find any Tom bowlers for a game of marbles, eyeing a glass in which my father's large kidney stones were proudly exhibited, and trying one out as an ersatz. Nah, too fragile. That's certainly been a 'rough trot' and keep us posted about the final one. Don't worry about anaesthetics. Reading Wikipedia I/P articles tends to have a longterm anaesthetic effect as collateral damage, but one learns to live with it!  Best wishes [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 18:10, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
:::Well, the next operation is the final stage in dealing with my [[Benign prostatic hyperplasia|BPH]]. It looks like it's going to be one of these: [https://www.ouh.nhs.uk/urology/services/documents/holep.pdf Holmium Laser Enucleation of the Prostate (HoLEP)]. The young consultant surgeon who spoke to me after the op, seemed to be very enthusiastic about this procedure. The procedure is so new (and very expensive, I have no doubt) that it doesn't have a wiki article yet. Basically they use this very powerful laser to destroy everything inside the prostate, except the outer skin. Sounds very attractive – no chance of it ever growing back, no more PSA tests, no more PSA scares if it shows a high reading, no more obstruction to the flow, no chance of getting prostate cancer. He gave me a lot of detailed information, more than I can remember in my drug-befuddled state, but as per usual, I will get a copy of the letter he sends to my GP. So I should know more when I finally get the letter. They always send them second-class, so I'll still have to wait several more days for it. Bring back the days of the non-privatised Royal Mail – I can remember when you could write a local letter in the morning, and receive a reply the same day. (People did this because it was so much cheaper than a phone call.){{pb}} The BPH is one of the reasons that I sometimes edit Wikipedia at very odd times of the day, like 4am or 5am (having to get up in the middle of the night to pee). So no more of that, either. I've had clinical symtoms of BPH since my mid-thirties. The sort of thing that slowly gets worse as you get older, but in recent years my symptoms have been stable, and I've learned to live with them. But the hernia op seems to have been thing that finally triggered my prostate into its final protest. I went into urinary retention a few weeks after the hernia op, and have had to wear a catheter ever since. I failed the Trial without Catheter (TWOC) test very badly. I regard getting rid of the catheter as the biggest benefit from the forthcoming operation. Catheters stop you doing almost everything normal – no hard exercise (but limited walking is OK), I can't use my bicycle – my normal mode of transport. And after several months, catheters start to hurt, especially when they move, which reduces exercise even further. And I'm very glad I don't have to face the choice of whether or not to have a [[TURP]]. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 21:20, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
::::Anothe point re catheters. They're bad enough when they work as intended. But I've had a catheter fall out 3 times. They're not supposed to do that. The current one is leaking urine round the '''outside''' of the catheter. They're not supposed to do that either. I'll spare you the details, except that each time it happens, I face a long and expensive emergency trip to the A&E. At least I can afford it without any problems, evil capitalist bastard that I am! --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 04:24, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::But there is one advantage to all these catheter problems, and that is that they're going to be moving me up the priority list for the big op (as they should do). That's what I was told by the doc I saw this morning at A&E, when I went to see them about my latest catheter problems. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 12:32, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
::::::Shades of Kurt Gödel! It must be that the mathematically gifted are statistically prone to catheter problems. Gödel didn't trust surgery on his engrossed prostate and insisted that his doctor replace his urinary tract with a permanent catheter! Hope the upcoming operation goes as smoothly as the others.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 11:40, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

== Some baklava for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Baklava - Turkish special, 80-ply.JPEG|135px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Just a quick hello. I seem to remember you may not be quite finished with the various medical procedures, and wanted to wish you well.  [[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 00:04, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
|}
:Thanks, very much appreciated. I still don't know when my next operation is going to be. I suppose it could be said that the '''neocons''' are making me sick in more than one way. They are slowly, bit-by-tiny-bit destroying the NHS, and hoping that nobody notices. I can see that the NHS staff are coping heroically with the non-stop squeeze in their budgets, but there's a limit to how far that can go. And of course I am sickened by the warmongering mass hysteria over Ukraine. I found the pictures from Parliament of the "address" by Zelensky sickening and disgusting, absolutely revolting. The mass hysteria in all the mass media news outlets is terrifying, especially the BBC. Talk about Orwell's two minutes of hate. Now we've got 24/7 anti-Russia hate. And the vast majority of the people fall for the lies, mindlessly displaying blue-and-yellow flags as if it was a football team. It's unbearable, and very, very depressing. Off to bed now. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 00:39, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
::Quite refreshing to read your post. I feel the same about the hysteria. Everyone is suddenly an expert, on an incredibly complex topic they knew nothing about two weeks ago. Personally I despise the media’s “good vs evil” or “sane vs crazy” approach to conflict reporting. Life just doesn’t work like that, and it discourages politicians from searching for a real solution. Russia’s thinking seems no different to Israel’s in 1967 – a confused mix of strategic defence and nationalist ideas about the heartland, which make it feel right to the aggressor and terrible to the victims. Neither should have been allowed, but as a wider world we have shown that we are not willing to go to war to protect the international law-based world order, against either allies or powerful adversaries. Only against weak adversaries, where there is a financial or propagandistic benefit. So we find ourselves in a terrible mess. We are of course willing to encourage and fund the Ukrainian people to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. The only thing which is certain is that the Ukrainian people are being mistreated by their friends and enemies alike. [[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 14:07, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
:::You might find [https://scheerpost.com/2022/03/05/another-casualty-of-the-ukraine-conflict-the-truth/amp/ this article] by Professor Michael Brenner interesting. [[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 06:41, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
::::Thanks, that's an excellent article, and confirms what I've already found out from other sources, but better written and composed. Funny thing: I thought "that's a good website, not heard of that before, I'll add it to my list" (the list that my ETVP script uses) – and then found it was already there. (Hmmm, I must be getting old.) You might like to watch Scott Ritter [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEIS3wKm6JM&t=2248 here (approx 22min video)], who, as a former weapons inspector  – contrast the recent UNSC meeting – actually knows what he's talking about. Right at the end, he comments about US and UK military  personnel training Ukranian neo-Nazis. Perhaps the trainers themselves were unaware of their neo-Nazi background, or didn't care, but [https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/12/protecting-the-nazis-the-extraordinary-vote-of-ukraine-and-the-usa/ those controlling them certainly aren't]. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001#top|talk]]) 14:12, 12 March 2022 (UTC)