View source for User talk:Kudpung/Archive Sep 2012

== Apologies & CVUA ==

Hi Kudpung, I'm sorry if I mis-interpreted [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dan653&diff=509537596&oldid=509536022 this] edit, which I understood to mean that you believed admins chose who got access to STiki and their word could not be over-ridden by non-admins. The us-them divide has always been a bugbear of mine and I know it's something I may be over-zealous with. 

Regarding the wider CVUA issues, they are looking to implement my suggested changes at the end of the week. I believe those who were causing the other issues are aware of them and I've not seen problems with that either. Some of our other worries appear to be unfounded, such as CVUA trying to foist inexperienced editors into NPP. I believe this was because [[WT:NPP]] included a CVU banner - CVU and CVUA are seperate entities. (It may be best to remove the banner anyway)

Given time, I'm sure the project will keep improving. I also don't want to see these enthusiastic editors demoralised, Wikipedia has a problem with editor retention and there have been suggestions that this is partially due to the critical environment. As one of our more experienced editors, I'm sure you've seen general opinion on the way we do things change, the last thing I think we should be doing is stifling those editors who's bright ideas may be the start of a new Wikipedia environment. [[User:Worm That Turned|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #000;">'''''Worm'''''</span></span>]]<sup>TT</sup>([[User Talk:Worm That Turned|<span style="color: #060;">talk</span>]]) 15:15, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

:CVU and CVU/A are currently  'run'  by  the same people. If  anyone is to  blame, it's me for encouraging  those I  accord Rollback  and Reviewer rights to, to  help out  at NPP - but  only if I believe they can manage it. Others probably  see those comments and think it applies to everyone. Part of my reaction over ''Stiki'' was due to the use over the weekend by one of the 'stars' of CVU who created havoc across over [[User talk:Theopolisme#STOP|500 articles]] by using a bugged script. Knowing who it was, I didn't block to stop the disruption, and my humour and handling of the issue was taken in very good faith, and it finally worked out well with all concerned. Those who criticise my  'attitude' fail to notice these things. ''Your'' advice to me, unlike some emails I've been getting from  the CVU  crew, is always taken ''very'' seriously and in the very best of good faith :) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 16:05, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
:PS. You  may also wish  to  see [[User talk:West.andrew.g #A sticky situation|this conversation]]  that  took  pace earlier this evening. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 16:12, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

::When I read the comments that this incident stemmed from, I was immediately taken aback. Kudpung's tone was a little waspish. Definitely not something that I'm used to seeing. After reading back over everything, especially the little incident with Stiki, I'm actually going to give him kudos for maintaining as pleasant of a demeanor as he has. As I commented on the CVUA talk page earlier this evening, I feel that the project is near totally useless as a training tool. HOWEVER, it is one of those gateway projects that integrate new users into Wikipedia. And as such, I think it's dangerous to be too quick to write it off as a bad idea. I have looked over a lot of the people who drive that project and while they are often inexperienced and young, they all seem to have their hearts in the right place. [[User:Trusilver|<span style="font-family:papyrus; color:#686868;">Trusilver</span>]] 04:53, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

:::Hi  TrueSilver. Thanks for your input. Just to put the record straight in case your comments are misread by other users here (a common fault with  written communication which is also dangerous), I have never even remotely suggested that the project should be ''written off as a bad idea''. I don't  even concur that  it is a totally  uselses training tool.  Moreover, I firmly belive that it has an essential function. I have aways stated that I  appreciate the enthusiasm  nd the time the regulars spend on it, but with all  the social  banter, misplaced daughter projects, active members being blocked and having their tools revoked, and others leaving leaving  the project for reasons of disenchantment, I and other editors have expressed the need for a more mature approach to the task, and much, much less bureaucracy. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 07:12, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

::::I mostly agree. The project suffers from an extreme case of [[WP:SHED|Parkinson's Bicycle Shed Effect]]. For every twenty seconds the drivers of CVUA spend addressing the the correct methods to teach countervandalism, they spend an hour hand-wringing over pointless bureaucracy. Case in point: I made a post to the CVUA talk page the other day addressing several key issues surrounding the project as well as one minor quibbling suggestion that was almost to the point of irrelevance. Which one of these items did they latch onto and talk about? The irrelevant one. I found myself just sitting in my chair here chuckling and shaking my head. These are all good people, and I think they ARE an asset to the project, however misplaced I currently find their efforts to be. I think they '''seriously''' need a strong coordinator to the project, preferable one that is old enough to be taken seriously. (it shouldn't be an issue, but it really is) If someone asked for volunteers, I would be planting my foot into Worm That Turned's backside and shoving him out front. [[User:Trusilver|<span style="font-family:papyrus; color:#686868;">Trusilver</span>]] 23:53, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::I see that you share my thoughts exactly but  I have to  cast my  mind back nearly 50 years to when I was in that age group. At school  we were constantly creating and organising clubs along with all their hierarchies. Strong  leaderships surfaced but unfortunately those with the ''charisma'' were often ones who were least suited for the actual tasks involved (too much polit-talk and too little action), while others quietly went about putting things write <small>(pun intended)</small>. We ''all'' resented [http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthread.php?tid=23752 any advice from outside] <small>(have fun reading the entire thread)</small>.   One only needs to look at  [[:Category:Wikipedia Counter-Vandalism Unit Academy|this]], total up the the number of edits that went into them all, and realise how that time could have been spent on actual counter-vandalism or tutoring. I started the ball  rolling  with  getting  the issues addressed, mainly  because of the badgering  and unnecessary  'clerking' at  PERM, but  even that  didn't  work. Worm  stepped in at  CVU and took the lead with  offering some sound advice  and although he is wise, experienced, and perhaps more diplomatic than I am, his gentle words were acknowledged but  received no  action. People say  that change takes time, but it has been going on for weeks now and I  don't see any happening. I've said that one can't see the wood for the trees in  the forest  of CVU/CVUA pages, and the pages look like Christmas trees - also rather reminiscent of the cool 'go faster' stripes youngsters used to  stick  on their cars  -  including me! The [[WP:BIKESHED|bike shed]] is an excellent analogy (I didn't know about that essay) and also  brings to  mind an [[WP:WPSCH|area on which I am a coord - without  any  special  authority ]] -  hundreds of articles have just one line about the school, and the rest is about their sports results, the dozens of 5-member clubs,  and of course the food in the canteen. I realise that  because they  think it  was hard work  making them, it would be difficult for them to accept that they need to scrap  most of the pages and the decorations.  Not  content with  the plethora of user rights, [[WP:HATSHOP|some editors]] are even campaigning for more. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 01:28, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::I think I have arrived at the same position you have, and I totally wash my hands of those people. I can name a dozen different anti-vandalism patrollers just off the top of my head who have more experience than ten of their so-called "instructors". (I wish that was an exaggeration, but it's really not) They seem to really enjoy outside comments on their project... particularly when they are positive comments. If they are offered criticism, they simply pick out the parts that they like and blissfully pretend the rest never happened. They are going about right now figuring out how to create metrics to verify how successful their programs is... let bureaucracy reign!! I know what you are talking about when it comes to schools, though. I have always had a soft spot toward school articles, even when they are clearly crufty and/or non-notable, just because I know that school articles are how a lot of teenage editors get their first edits on the project. With schools, much like the CVUA, I feel that we can afford the ability to not take them QUITE as seriously as other content. I'm sure there are certain humorless people who will be lighting torches to burn me at the stake for even suggesting this, but I think that when the cafeteria menu or something equally unencyclopedic for [[Whocaresville High School]] is put on the article, I will scrutinize it for a moment and then walk right past it when I'm doing recent change patrolling. Should I revert? Probably, but it's an article that very few people are going to read, and it has the possibility of developing a new editor who might later be an asset to the project. I view CVUA in the same way... a gross misappropriation of time. BUT, it really doesn't hurt anyone or anything to let it exist, and good may come out of it in the long run. [[User:Trusilver|<span style="font-family:papyrus; color:#686868;">Trusilver</span>]] 22:33, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
::::::: Please ''do''  revert any  senseless trivia from  school articles when yo  come across it. I  use a special toolserver watchlist for school articles but I don't catch them all by any means. I wouldn't  say  that  nobody  reads school  articles - I just got  a high school up to GA and it's been reported in the local press! Wikipedia's first UK high school GA. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 07:16, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
::::::::Congratulations on that! I'd be very interested in seeing it. The link? [[User:Trusilver|<span style="font-family:papyrus; color:#686868;">Trusilver</span>]] 08:15, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::[[HCGS]]. I  spent 2 days climbing  around in the school's 500 year old attic looking  through old records when I was in the UK  last  year. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:26, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thanks for your support in my RfA. I hope to maintain your trust in me.—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 21:03, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

== Carthage44 socking ==

{{User link|Carthage44}} was blocked indefintely a while back along with {{Userlink|74.94.112.249}} (2 weeks).  The IP is actively editing again with the same baseball theme of [[Chicago White Sox]] related articles.  Being that editing in the past with this static IP coincided with blocks to Carthage44, and given the current theme of the edits, I would assume this is a continuing sock.—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 21:09, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
:I would assume so too and it looks pretty obvious to me  and it  has been established that  they  are the same although they  made a [[User talk:74.94.112.249|weak claim of innocence]] that was declined. As you are now an admin, you can use your discretion whether to re-block or not. I would suggest a longer block this time, with account creation blocked, and check  to  see if any new accounts editing  the same pages have been created while the block was on. Good luck! [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 08:00, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
::As I interacted in the past with the user before becoming an admin, I'll err on being conservative and consider myself "involved".  I'll report at SPI.  Thanks.—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 14:33, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I think that is a perfectly reasonable decision. It's also  the reason why I will not get further involved as I made the first block. There's nothing to stop you [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Carthage44/Archive|reopening the case]] though. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 14:54, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
::::Opened at [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Carthage44]].  Especially since I filed what I thought was a clear-cut case at AN3 that was denied on a stricter interpretation of edit-warring than I would have used, I'm sitting back and observing on cases where I'm involved.  No desire for drama :-)—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 15:07, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::I've been around a long time but I'm also rather new to the SPI process itself. It's not an area that I  generally take much active interest in but through my work on deletions I tend to end up  discovering a lot of cases of socking. This particular case should be able to  be quickly cut and dried per [[WP:DUCK]] because the user actually  [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:74.94.112.249&diff=437510476&oldid=437509197 admits to using the same computer]. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 15:23, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

== Garrison Border Town of Elvas and its Fortifications ==

Hi there

Thank you for notifying me about the deletion of "Garrison Border Town of Elvas and its Fortifications".

I do not agree with the deletion which was already done. It is usual for articles refering to a world heritage site to be separated from the article of the city/place itself where this site is located. 

The information of the original article I created is now not present anywhere.

I will recreate the original article.

Best,

Z. [[User:Zdtrlik|Zdtrlik]] ([[User talk:Zdtrlik|talk]]) 09:07, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

:Hi. It  hasn't actually  been deleted. You  can find it  here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Garrison_Border_Town_of_Elvas_and_its_Fortifications&oldid=505697830 to  recreate the article, simply  undo  the redirect by  using  the 'undo' in  the edit  history. Do not simply copy the content and paste it into a new article. If  you  need any  help, let  me know. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:18, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

== [[Hanley_Castle_High_School]] ==

Good evening :) I just passed the article. Pardon me for the delay but I can't find any problems left within. Cheers! '''''[[User:TheSpecialUser|<span style="font-family:Brush Script MT;color:black;background:white">TheSpecialUser</span>]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:TheSpecialUser|<span style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:blue">TSU</span>]]</sup>''''' 21:58, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

==Oh that's why==
"There are also close on 1,000 other guidelines and policies to help your editing." No wonder everyone is confused and fighting each other! ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]'', <small>03:08, 30 August 2012 (UTC).</small><br />
:One of my  typical  tongue-in-the-cheek exaggerations, but  if one counts all  the essays too, it  might  be getting  close. Even  still  keep stumbling  across new ones, and I'm  often confued. One of the annoying  things is that  so many  pages link to other versions of the same thing.  [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 04:12, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

==CSD Log==
Hi Kudpung! I found a tool (from Dennis Brown's RFA) that tracks your CSD nominations. I have made a log of those CSD nominations which can be found [[User:Electriccatfish2/Early CSD Log|here]]. Additionally, I have enabled Twinkle's CSD and PROD logs. What do you think about my nominations? Best, [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric]] [[User talk: Electriccatfish2|Catfish]] 14:32, 30 August 2012 (UTC).

== Could you please lock this page ==

There have been non-stop vandalism and addition in this list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boston_University_people

:No vandalim. And who are you? [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 02:25, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

== Protection of Edin Džeko ==

Hi there! I don't know how familiar you are with football/soccer, and particular European, and especially English football, but from the close of the season until 31 August, players are allowed to be transfered. As such, players even vaguely linked with moves have their pages changed. This is exacerbated by wild twitter rumours, fans lust for another team's player etc until WP player pages are a mess! As such, I've protected Dzeko's page as it kept getting changed that he plays for Arsenal. He doesn't, but some fans think he a) should b) has signed c) is about to sign etc. Until it's a done deal and has reliable sources, we can only say he plays for his current club (in this case Man City). 

Almost every football player that comes onto RfPP around deadline day ends up getting protected till early September when it all calms down again. Until January, when we get another month of it! So I hope you don't mind me revisting your RfPP request (it had been added to), and for letting you know about the madness of the transfer window. And apologies if you knew all that anyway! [[User:Ged UK|<span style="color:green;">Ged</span>]][[User talk:Ged UK|<span style="color:orange;">'''''UK'''''</span>&nbsp;]] 14:28, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

:Hi Ged. You'll  find this strange for an Englishman, but I don't have the foggiest idea about soccer, no  interest, and don't  want to know. All I know is that  22 men kick  a ball around a field, earn a huge amount of money for it, and millions of people go mad over the game. As you'll see from my user page, I also have an aversion to the 1000s of one-line, one-reference soccer bios -  and that's why I can't  even be bothered to patrol them. You are more than welcome to  protect  the article as much as you  like, even dig a hole and bury it  ;) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 14:39, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
::Doesn't surprise me in the slightest; most of my friends couldn't give a rat's whosit about it either. I just wish there was a button we could press when the transfer window opens that would protect all footballer's articles until September! WOuld stop RfPP getting cluttered! [[User:Ged UK|<span style="color:green;">Ged</span>]][[User talk:Ged UK|<span style="color:orange;">'''''UK'''''</span>&nbsp;]] 14:53, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

== A7-Animal ==

Hi Kudpung! I've always wondered what the purpose of the {{tl|db-animal}} template was. What is considered a non-notable or insignificant animal? I've created a few fish stubs, and TAP has created thousands of stubs of species of beetles. The only article about an animal that I've ever speedied was [[Smeebling]] (it's actually a hoax and you'll probably get a good laugh about it). Best, [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric]] [[User talk: Electriccatfish2|Catfish]] 20:54, 31 August 2012 (UTC).

:An animal with a real name such  as a race horse, a pet, a famous circus elephant, or a panda in  a zoo, etc. See [http://listverse.com/2012/08/08/top-20-world-famous-animals/ this]. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]])

== TRACY WEST MALONE AND MARK MALONE ==

PLEASE REMOVE THE PERSONAL SECTION ON "MARK MALONE", I AM HIS EX WIFE AND SOMEONE IS EDITING IT WITH COMPLETE LIES. IT'S CAUSING ME TROUBLE AT MY BUSINESS, ETC. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO TAKE LEGAL ACTION. WHEN I DELETE IT, YOU DON'T ALLOW IT, BUT YOU ALLOW THE LIES????  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.194.7.15|70.194.7.15]] ([[User talk:70.194.7.15|talk]]) 01:11, 1 September 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


:Hello. If you want me to look into  this, firstly please don't shout. Secondly, making legal threats or implying that you will make them is taken extremely negatively on Wikipedia. Please follow this link and read about it: [[WP:NLT]],  and then read [[WP:LBL]] for advice on the action you can take. And finally, we have no reason to believe that you  are who you say  you are. Thank you. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]])

== Mentoring ==
My apologies. While I've seen several discussions, I had not realised you had been mentoring him as well. Otherwise, I would have notified you as I did keilana. - <b>[[User:Jc37|jc37]]</b> 01:37, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
:No worries. I have everything he does on my watchlist anyway, and I also keep a regular eye on most AN/I cases :) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 01:41, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

== Request ==

Hi. Could you take a look at [[Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Autopatrolled]] for me? A billion thank yous! <span style="font-family: Impact;">[[User:TBrandley#top|TBran]][[User talk:TBrandley#top|dl]][[Special:Contribs/TBrandley|ey]]</span> 02:43, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
:See my comments there and please do  ot canvass admins - we have the PERM pages on  our watchlists. Thanks. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 02:58, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
:Note that ItsZippy has previously revoked this user's AutoPatrolled rights.--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 19:59, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
:And...? [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 07:26, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
:That is all.--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 05:19, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

== Canvassing ==

:I probably shouldn't have added that Perm TB. I saw the note you left for TBrandley hinting you have PERM pages on your watchlist.--[[User:Calm As Midnight|Calm As Midnight]] ([[User talk:Calm As Midnight|talk]]) 09:49, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

== Red - Taylor Swift ==

You questioned me about a reference to the song of the album called "Everything Has Changed" (feat. Ed Sheeran) and I can't find any but it was said in an interview so can I reference the interview? here at 2 mins http://www.mtv.co.uk/artists/taylor-swift/video/taylor-swift-talks-inspiration-behind-never-ever-hit --[[User:Justinhaff|Justinhaff]] ([[User talk:Justinhaff|talk]]) 11:17, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

:Unfortunately  an interview is not  a reliable source because it  contains information  a subject  said about  themselves: [[WP:PRIMARY]]. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 11:25, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

== Hi ==

I've [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Keelan717&diff=510283821&oldid=510280049 fixed] the closure. If you ever go for it again, [[Wikipedia:Bureaucrats#Promotions_and_RfX_closures|here]] are the instructions :) '''''[[User:TheSpecialUser|<span style="font-family:Brush Script MT;color:black;background:white">TheSpecialUser</span>]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:TheSpecialUser|<span style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:blue">TSU</span>]]</sup>''''' 15:02, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
:I  know, thanks. I realised what I had done but  my  connection  went off and I  was still  trying  to  figure it  out. Cheers. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 15:04, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

== Keelan RfA ==

You told me to tell you if it was without my consent. It certainly was. I have no idea where he got my username from... I'll be commenting on the request so you can close it shortly. Thanks for your assistance. [[User:Silvrous|Silvrous]] ([[User talk:Silvrous|talk]]) 15:59, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
::OK, thanks, because in  a few moments I'm  probably  going  to  block  him  for vandalism. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 16:01, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

== I do assume good faith, and you have, indeed, erred; but I hope I'm not being rude. ==

Lecen not only took part in the edit war, but was actually the one who started it and ignored the talk page. Where's his warning?

Did you even read the talk page? Lecen complained to the noticeboard before joining the discussion in the talk page, despite my invitations to discussion. --[[User:Imnotkeller|I. N. Keller]] ([[User talk:Imnotkeller|talk]]) 16:37, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

:Hi. You're not  being  rude at  all. I had read the talk  page and it doesn't matter who is wrong  or who  is right, technically you were both edit warring and over the limit. However, those  edit summaries for communication are not a cool way to communicate either, and they are disruptive. I  omitted to  warn Lecen because I'm  having  terrible problems with  my  connection  today  and I  meant  to  go  back  to  it  later. I  was actually  hesitating  over protecting  the page but one edit war between just two  editors is not  sufficient  reason  to  do  so.  It's  too  late for me to  warn him  now so  I  will  strike the warning  on  your page and feel  free to  delete it if you  wish. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 16:55, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

::Thank you, sir. I don't really care about warnings, I simply object to special treatment, mainly because I don't deserve it --[[User:Imnotkeller|I. N. Keller]] ([[User talk:Imnotkeller|talk]]) 17:14, 1 September 2012 (UTC).

In  hindsight,  I've left a message on  his talk page already. As it  as a content  dispute it  should have been taken to  WP:DRN anyway if it  can't be resolved amicably  amicably and not  ANI. At  ANI  there could be a risk that you might both be blocked -  which I did not do. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 17:18, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

:Regarding his comment below, I have been editing Wikipedia anonymously since at least 2005, but, unlike him, I don't do it for attribution. He's a great example of the editor who has made major contributions or written a whole article himself, and then rejects any attempts to improve it. By the way, the discussion of 16th of November did not "die out", hie simply ignored it completely.

:If we decide to assess edits based on the past contributions of the editor instead of assessing the contribution's merits, we'll be driving many users away, both new and old. Using your "golden stars" as an argument is ludicrous; what bearing do his "golden stars" have on whether the article's title is good or not?

:One last point: "ragamuffin" is NOT a translation for "farrapo." Farrapo means "rag". I challenge anyone to find a dictionary saying otherwise. --[[User:Imnotkeller|I. N. Keller]] ([[User talk:Imnotkeller|talk]]) 18:56, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

::I'm  not really  bothered who is right or who is wrong as I have said before, and my talk page is not  the place to  battle it  out and you  both  know where to  take your dispute. That  said, AFAIK ''maltrapilho'' is ragamuffin. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 20:15, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

:::And you are right. maltrapilho is a good translation for ragamuffin. Sorry for bothering you, I realise now you're very busy.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Imnotkeller|Imnotkeller]] ([[User talk:Imnotkeller|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Imnotkeller|contribs]]) 20:56, 1 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== War of the Ragamuffins ==

Thank you for your warning. Perhaps you're not aware, but I'm actually the only, I repeat, the '''only''' editor on Wikipedia in English who is writing articles about Brazilian imperial history. Did you see the golden stars [[User:Lecen|at the top of my user page]]? [[Empire of Brazil]], [[Pedro I of Brazil]], [[Pedro II of Brazil]], etc, etc.. The Brazilian military commander who quelled the Ragamuffin rebellion? That was [[Luís Alves de Lima e Silva, Duke of Caxias]], another Featured Article I wrote. In other words: I'm actually the only person who has any real knowledge of Brazilian history around. But you instead chose to listen to a guy who has never contributed at all??

You also seem not to have paid attention to the development of the article about the [[War of the Ragamuffins]]. That was, and still is, a completely ignored article. I changed its name (and warned everyone) on '''17 May 2011'''. No one complained. No one. Several months later, on '''16 November 2011''', a guy called Pinnecco complained, but the discussion died out and nothing happened. Now, on '''31 August 2012''' an editor called " I. N. Keller" who has never made any single contribution on Wikipedia changed the name of the article and reverted again when I opposed him. You shoudn't come to my talk page and accuse me of edit warring. I'm not forcing anything, he was and still is. The name "Ragamuffin" ''is'' the English translation of the Portuguese word "''Farrapo''" and is the name used on English sources about Brazilian imperial history. I'm not creating that out of nowhere, I woudln't have '''ten''' FAs about Brazilian imperial history if I didn't pay serious attention to sources. --[[User:Lecen|Lecen]] ([[User talk:Lecen|talk]]) 18:18, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

:If I'm concerned with cases of edit warring I obviously don't do a review of the whole article. The effort is to stop the warring, not  to  establish  who  is right or wrong -  it takes two to tango. The content  or the name dispute is a matter for [[WP:DRN]] if it can't  be resolved amicably as I  have explained. What you  could also  do would be start a 'move' RfC on  the article talk page and let the community decide on the name of the page. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 18:44, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

== Thmc1 Now causing new problems! REPLY RQUESTED! ==

Just thought I'd let you know that Thmc1 is now embroiled in an edit war and angering several(at least 4 or 5) other users in the "Yosemite National Park" article by repeatedly reverting their edits. All this while still evading block and not logging in
(173.63.176.93). Check out the article's talk page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yosemite_National_Park#Hantavirus]! 
I've already reported to WP.AIV, but so far nothing. Now, what? [[User:MBaxter1|MBaxter1]] ([[User talk:MBaxter1|talk]]) 18:48, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
:AIV is for clear cases of vandalism. If  it's a content  dispute take it  to DRN, if it's sockpuppetry  take it  to  SPI,  and if you are absolutely  certain  that  admin  intervention  is required take it to  AN/I. That  said, I don't  see much  disruption  on  [[Yosemite National Park]]. And please stop yelling at me - it's not  the way to  get things done here. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]])

:My apologies if it appeared that I was yelling at you. The goal was to get your atention, and not to yell! I'm just really miffed (and disappointed) at why you had originally blocked 173.63.176.93, and then reversed that decision. According to the investigation archives, there was barely any evidence(compared to what I brought up), and yet he was still blocked the first time. Even more puzzling is why a user who obviously violated a block for sockpuppeting is allowed to continue what is obviously the same kinds of disruptive edits (subtle vandalism) for which he was originally blocked. Has there been a change of protocol for conducting SPI since that time? Regards, [[User:MBaxter1|MBaxter1]] ([[User talk:MBaxter1|talk]]) 17:39, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

::The probleis that  we can't  keep  IPs blocked indefinitely. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 05:32, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

:::Gotcha. if it's alright with you I will continue reporting anything that I find suspicious. Anyway, you mentioned previously that you were conducting an investigation of your own and came up with a few other people who might also be connected to Thmc1. By any chance, would one of the account names happen to begin with the letters "Kw......."?[[User:MBaxter1|MBaxter1]] ([[User talk:MBaxter1|talk]]) 20:09, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

== Autopatrolled ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_permissions%2FAutopatrolled&diff=510058349&oldid=510003799 25?] Really? Not so long time ago the bar was at 100 pages. Don't understand me wrong: I think that many bars in Wikipedia are simply too high (e.g. RfA/B, etc) but this is... say - nobody will check the created articles again (or say it will need it's time, maybe years!)... <small style="font: 12px Courier New; color: #000000; display:inline;border:#009 1px dashed;padding:1px 3px 1px 4px;background-color:#fff">[[User talk:Mabdul|mabdul]]</small> 20:27, 1 September 2012 (UTC)<br>PS: PLease remove the blinky stuff of your edit notice... :(

:Golly, you  mean people actually ''read''  my  edit notice? [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 20:34, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
::No, it is going on my nervs while editing here. -.- <small style="font: 12px Courier New; color: #000000; display:inline;border:#009 1px dashed;padding:1px 3px 1px 4px;background-color:#fff">[[User talk:Mabdul|mabdul]]</small> 20:38, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Na und? Dein Pech, Alter ;) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 20:49, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
::::{{tps}} The purpose of autopatrolled rights is to help reduce the backlog at NPP. I do not believe that there should be an arbitrary threshold attributed to autoreviewer rights, such as 50 or 100 articles created. The articles should be free of issues that NPPers have to correct or tag for, such as spelling and grammar mistakes, BLP issues, or NPOV vios. However, 17 articles isn't going to backlog up NPP. [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric]] [[User talk: Electriccatfish2|Catfish]] 01:02, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::When I  applied for the right 3 years ago I had made over 50 full-length articles. I applied because if a patroller was doing his/her job properly, it  would have taken an hour to check them correctly. I  wouldn't  have dreamt of asking  for the rights with  less. Quality is more important  than quantity, and if I see around 35 or so articles of the quality I write myself, I see no reason why not to accord, while 100 short stubs probably won't get my  approval - they only take seconds to patrol. When checking for autopatrolled rights, I check  ''all'' the articles up  to the first 100, and also  do  checks that can only be made by admins, and those are the most important. Again therefore, there is really  no  need for 'clerking' on that  page except  for some help  with  archiving. I  have no  idea what criteria other admins apply, but  I  guess you  all  know by  now that  I  am  strict  but  fair (I hope), and always open to  questions concerning  my  admin  acts (nobody is perfect). Hope this helps. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 07:39, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
::::::Oh you're doing a great job at the PERM pages. Keep up doing such good work! Just wanted to know the rationale behind that shrinking threshold. <small style="font: 12px Courier New; color: #000000; display:inline;border:#009 1px dashed;padding:1px 3px 1px 4px;background-color:#fff">[[User talk:Mabdul|mabdul]]</small> 10:53, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | In case you weren't aware, I respect your judgement and am very glad for your comments as they help me further my knowledge. I would actually like to encourage you to make to make any comments because in the end, I find them  helpful! Your work at [[WP:PERM]] is also much appreciated. -- Cheers, <span title="Shoot!" style="font-family: Mono; font-weight: bold; cursor: crosshair;">[[User:Riley Huntley|<span style="color:#00B74A;">Riley Huntley</span>]] <small><sub>[[User talk:Riley_Huntley|<span style="color:red;">talk</span>]]</sub></small></span>  03:54, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
|}

Thank you very much, Riley. Actually, Keelan and his socks kept me up half the night chasing them around the site. All VOA and blocked now. --[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 05:38, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

== thankyou ==

thankyou for rollback :D --'''[[User:LemonTwinkle|<span style="color:orange">Lemon</span>]][[User talk:LemonTwinkle|<span style="color:Green">Twinkle</span>]]''' 07:19, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
:You're welcome. Use it wisely and only for blatant vandalism. From time to time I'll check in and see how you're doing and offer any advice.--[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 07:41, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

== FYI ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions/Confirmed&diff=510441158&oldid=510440902 FYI].  Please remember that CAPTCHAs are undoable for some of us. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 15:35, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
:As a web developer, I am fully aware of that. The onus is on the applicant to explain why they  want the rights, and on the MediaWiki devs to do something about it. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 23:52, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
::I actually don't know why we would be declining this flag to anyone who is working in reasonably good faith and not making a mess.  It is supposed to be trivial, not something that requires an extraordinary reason to get; all declining the flag does is makes other people's lives harder, and it isn't really fair to make them beg for such a trivial thing. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 00:12, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
:::AFAIK (according to a test I made 3 minutes ago, from  an unconformed account of mine, and making an attempt at account creation) the CAPTCHA is only required when registering a new account. There may  possibly  be a bug  or something else I am missing. Nevertheless, a more friendly  approach to  me might have been appropriate - the use in  question hasn't  even attempted one edit  to  mainspace yet. Thanks. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 00:17, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
::::{{tps}} I think that you also have to answer a CAPTHA when you try to provide an external link (to prevent spamming). [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric]] [[User talk: Electriccatfish2|Catfish]] 11:22, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::CAPTCHA would make sense in that case, except that I think it would be best to try a different system for blocking out spam bots rather than getting people to punch in a set of difficult-to-read characters that appear onscreen. I agree with [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] above. [[User:Kurtis|Kurtis]] ([[User talk:Kurtis|talk]]) 18:57, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

==Stevia RFPP==
Regarding [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection&diff=510408114&oldid=510406932 this response] to my RFPP request for full protection of [[stevia]], it seems you agreed to full protection but then semi-protected it. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] <small>([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]])</small> 19:45, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
::Sorry! I fully intended to  full  protect it. I've added another 48 hours -  this time full  protection, but  it  appears that  things have died down already. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 23:26, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Not really, the full protection has encouraged talk page discussion, which was the point. Thanks. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] <small>([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]])</small> 19:32, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

== Removing of maintenance tag templates ==

Kudpungji, I am having a a problem with the article creator  of [[Sibichen K Mathew]] who has been removing repeatedly maintenance templates (leaving messages like "Sorry will look into it......shortly). While the initial page was created through  user name, subsequent edits are being done through an IP. The issue is mainly with notability and there are any number of these pages of mid-ranking and junior  Indian civil service officers probably  put up by their sycophants, progeny or those looking for a something in return. (Other examples I've come across are [[K. V. Jacob]] and [[Abhay Kumar]].) I was just wondering if I should continue replacing the maintenance tags or give it up as a lost cause [[User:Sesamevoila|Sesamevoila]] ([[User talk:Sesamevoila|talk]]) 05:11, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
:Never give up on  these issues, because the editors need to learn that  they  can't  mess with  Wikipedia and and have their own way against policies. However, don't get involved in  an edit war by  replacing  the templates, but  continue to issue incremental  warnings if necessary. I'll  take a look and reply again here later. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 05:48, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
:The IP and the user are obviously the same and connecting from  the same building in Bangalore. I've left  messages on all the accounts and more special  ones on  the main  account. Check them out to see what I hav done. You'll  find that  we have hundreds of problems like these from  Indian  editors. It's mostly  in  good faith  because they  don't  understand the rules (we had huge problems with our Education  Programme in Pune last year). The other problem  of course is that such articles often appear promotional ([[WP:PEACOCK]]) because they are written in Indian English which is noted for its flowery prose. While this is perfectly acceptable for the Indian sub continent, it almost always needs to be copyedited for the neutral standard English used on  Wikipedia, which is more like American or British English or the English required for the [[IELTS]] exams. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 06:45, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


kudpunji,i am harish.I am sorry for the misdeeds done,i have cleared up the page,instead of tagging can u please help me by removing the peacock words....Thanks ([[User:Harishrawat11|Harishrawat11]] ([[User talk:Harishrawat11|talk]]) 12:19, 4 September 2012 (UTC))

:Hi Harish. Sesamevoila only  means well. He is a very good Wikipedia editor and is from India. I  have also  lived and taught in India. I am sure that with his help you will be able to  get the article up to scratch, and have the tags removed. You'll do fine - just remember to log in each time you edit. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 12:43, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Editor review/TheGeneralUser (2)]] Your review is required and will be greatly appreciated :) ==

Hi Kudpung {{smiley|smile}}! I have started my second editor review at [[Wikipedia:Editor review/TheGeneralUser (2)]]. I will be greatly delighted, thankful and valued to have your review for me regarding my editing and possible candidate for [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship|Adminship]]. I see you also evaluate possible candidates for Adminship as you had chosen to do so on [[Wikipedia:Request an RfA nomination]], so do evaluate me too! As you are a experienced and long term Wikipedian so i have asked for your kind review. Take your time to review my editing and give the best review that you can :). Feel free to ask me any questions you would like to on the review page itself. It will be a great honor to have you review me for which I will truly feel appreciated and helpful! I always work to improve Wikipedia and make it a more better place to be for Everyone :). Regards and Happy Editing! [[User:TheGeneralUser|TheGeneralUser]] ([[User talk:TheGeneralUser|talk]]) 19:15, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

== A bowl of strawberries for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Erdbeerteller01.jpg|120px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | thank you for understanding [[User:Harishrawat11|Harishrawat11]] ([[User talk:Harishrawat11|talk]]) 01:31, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
|}
You're welcome. We're all here to help :) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 01:33, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

== Adoption ==

Would you be willing to adopt me? I want to learn more about PERM and All types of vandalism so i can become a CVUA instructor,--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 05:43, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

== PERM2 ==

The reason i decided to stop clerking is because now i realize it isn't really appropriate if admins are watching the PERM pages.--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 06:18, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

:There's' not  really a lot  to learn about  PERM beyond reading  the descriptions of the tools/user rights on  their respective home pages, and you don't really need to know anyway  becuse you  won't  be ready  for adminship  for a very long time, and when you are, you'll know already by then. I'd like you also to  stay  away from  requests for page protection too for the same reason, except for making request there, but ''please'' don't go overboard on that either - again like at  PERM, most requests there are declined because page protection is not a silver bullet;  it's done by  admins after closely analysing the situation on the pages that might need to be protected.  

:I'm  afraid I don't have enough time to mentor anyone at the moment because I'm very tied up  with  my  own  content work, looking after the pages we've discussed, and helping  to develop  other major solutions. Nevertheless, you are always most welcome to come here if you  have any  questions or need some advice. If you want to  enter a full scale adoption  programme, do check  out the page at  [[Wikipedia:Adopt-a-user]]. Good luck! [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 06:37, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

:However, I'll  still  be watching  your edits and I'll  jump  in with  help  and advice from  time to  to  time. The first  one is why  you  ignored [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Counter-Vandalism_Unit/Academy&diff=511006665&oldid=511006530 this] before adding your comment. Have you read the advice yet in  your AN/I? [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 02:27, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes.--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 02:32, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
:I unintentionally Added something to an IP's request at perm/c. I did remember not to, When Riley Huntly said at AN i had declined an IP's request due to the Mediawiki software not allowing anyone to add user rights for an IP editor.--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 02:33, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
::Anderson, from my view, you are failing to get the point. It is not about the why you closed the request, this is about you abusing the communities trust when you specially said you wouldn't. Besides, you made two edits to close that request, with the second edit you could have reverted your closure and mentioned at the AN/I that you forgot and accidently made the edit. Saying you ''unintentionally'' made the edit is not helping your situation nor the communities trust. -- Cheers, <span title="Shoot!" style="font-family: Mono; font-weight: bold; cursor: crosshair;">[[User:Riley Huntley|<span style="color:#00B74A;">Riley Huntley</span>]] <small><sub>[[User talk:Riley_Huntley|<span style="color:red;">talk</span>]]</sub></small></span>  02:51, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Since this discussion is now about Anderson's AN/I, please move any further comments to [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive239#Rollback]]. -- Cheers, <span title="Shoot!" style="font-family: Mono; font-weight: bold; cursor: crosshair;">[[User:Riley Huntley|<span style="color:#00B74A;">Riley Huntley</span>]] <small><sub>[[User talk:Riley_Huntley|<span style="color:red;">talk</span>]]</sub></small></span>  02:58, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
::::I will. I'm halfway between -  and I have sleep problems. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 10:22, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::You also  'unitentionally'  closed part  of an ANI discussion. What people are saying is that you should stay away  from  ''all''admin  areas. That  mans also  PERM, RPP, and commenting  in  areas where you  yourself have insufficient  knowledge and exprience, and that  includes CVUA too. You also  need to  learn how to  format  talk  page threads properly.There comes a time when it  gets disruptive if editors have to  follow you around the site and put right  what  you  do  wrong  even if it  was in  good faith. If you don't  start  making  an effort  to  follow the advice you  have been given and agreed to, you'll  end up  being  banned from those areas, and eventually  blocked completely  from  Wikipedia. No  one wants that to  happen, least  of all  you, and we're all trying to help you understand. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 02:58, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
:I've decided rollback is unnecessary for me to have since i can revert vandalism at the same speed with twinkle.--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 03:01, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
::Anderson, this is clearly no longer about rollback, it is about your actions and how they are affecting everyone else. If you would have just apologized [above], this discussion would be going a whole different way. I suggest you follow the above advice. -- Cheers, <span title="Shoot!" style="font-family: Mono; font-weight: bold; cursor: crosshair;">[[User:Riley Huntley|<span style="color:#00B74A;">Riley Huntley</span>]] <small><sub>[[User talk:Riley_Huntley|<span style="color:red;">talk</span>]]</sub></small></span>  03:11, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
:I am going to start following advice.--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 03:12, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
::That's about  six time you've said that  in  the last  48 hours -  have you  forgotten that? [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 03:19, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
:I must have forgotten that. I'm am not going to edit around these areas because i don't want to be topic banned.--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 03:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
*I have suggested a plan of action for Anderson at his talk page. Assuming he agrees, I believe this should help sort things. [[User:Worm That Turned|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #000;">'''''Worm'''''</span></span>]]<sup>TT</sup>([[User Talk:Worm That Turned|<span style="color: #060;">talk</span>]]) 09:31, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
::Thanks enormously  for chiming  in Dave. (what  happened to  the message I  sent  you  asking  you  to  take a look?) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 18:44, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
:::I've had a look at a few things recently after you requested it, but this user didn't fall into that category... perhaps it didn't save properly? We're quite lucky that he lives in New Zealand, there's a lot of articles in that area which could do with expansion or are missing all together. Turnbull Thomson Park was just the first landmark I saw when looking at the city on a map, and it looks like it's got a decent bit of history :) [[User:Worm That Turned|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #000;">'''''Worm'''''</span></span>]]<sup>TT</sup>([[User Talk:Worm That Turned|<span style="color: #060;">talk</span>]]) 09:27, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::::He's going to have to be very careful -  everything that was discussed on the recent AN was only the tip of the iceberg. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 10:14, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::Hopefully, if his interests are steered away from clerking admin areas and towards areas he can dive in at, all will be well with the world. Unfortunately, from a timezone perspective, I'm not going to be much use - by the time I wake up in the morning he's been going all night... and if he does muck up, I won't be around to help out. [[User:Worm That Turned|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #000;">'''''Worm'''''</span></span>]]<sup>TT</sup>([[User Talk:Worm That Turned|<span style="color: #060;">talk</span>]]) 10:18, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

== A brownie for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Brownie transparent.png|120px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | for asking sesame to help me [[User:Harishrawat11|Harishrawat11]] ([[User talk:Harishrawat11|talk]]) 11:32, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
|}

== A brownie for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Brownie transparent.png|120px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Sorry for my user canvasses. I understand that I'm not as of yet ready for those user rights, and will come back later, without my canvass. Please except one of my homemade brownie as an apology. <span style="font-family: Impact;">[[User:TBrandley#top|TBran]][[User talk:TBrandley#top|dl]][[Special:Contribs/TBrandley|ey]]</span> 02:46, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
|}

==Aicap123 block evasion==
Morning Kudpung. Following their transgression on Wednesday morning, [[User:Aicap123]] is likely evading the block as [[User:14.102.118.42]]: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_recognised_political_parties_in_India&action=history history], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_recognised_political_parties_in_India&diff=510877202&oldid=510874660 diff], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_recognised_political_parties_in_India&diff=next&oldid=510877202 diff], and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_recognised_political_parties_in_India&diff=next&oldid=510916169 diff]. Since there's a backlog at SPI, it seems reasonable to avoid introducing obvious and unnecessary cases where possible. Thanks, [[User:Mephistophelian|Mephistophelian]] ([[User talk:Mephistophelian|talk]]) 10:36, 6 September 2012 (UTC).

:IPs can't upload files. IPs blocked and user reblocked.[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:57, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::Thanks for the update Kudpung, I'll monitor the [[List of recognised political parties in India]] from 6 October when the protection expires. Best, [[User:Mephistophelian|Mephistophelian]] ([[User talk:Mephistophelian|talk]]) 10:12, 8 September 2012 (UTC).

== Please protect/fix this page ==

it looks like someone keeps adding puff to this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boston_University_people I am an alumnus

:Not enough recent activity to justify page protection but several of us have it  on  our watchlists and you  are welcome to  do  the fixes yourself. There are also  a couple of other colleges with  inflated alumni lists that  need close attention -  do let  me know if you  see recent  unsourced additions to  those. Thanks for your vigilance. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 18:39, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

== Congratulations! ==

You have been added to [[User:Cyberpower678/My Wikifriends|my friends list]].  Why don't you visit the list and read the two bullets at the top?  I have added you because you have demonstrated to very friendly and courteous around me and I have seen you around meaning I have had the opportunity to evaluate you.  I consider my friends to be kind, helpful, and [[WP:CLUE|clueful]].—[[User:Cyberpower678|<span style="color: green; font-family: Neuropol;">cyberpower</span>]] [[User talk:Cyberpower678|<sup><span style="color: darkorange; font-family: arnprior;">Chat</span></sup>]]<sub style="margin-left:-3.7ex"><span style="color: darkorange; font-family: arnprior;">Limited Access</span></sub> 17:24, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

== CVUA ==

It would be good to be an instructor, But I'm concerned they won't accept me for ignoring instructions not clerk anywhere.--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 21:59, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

:That's right. For the moment you've lost  the community's confidence that you can really do ''anything'' that requires responsibility. It's not just  about  your refusing to stop clerking admin areas - what you have demonstrated is that you  don't follow advice in general,  so  you're not  in  a position  to  give any  to  anyone else. Do  take Worm's advice and don't be impatient to want to take on tasks that you are not ready for. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 22:06, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
::How long do you think i should wait before seeing if i can be an instructor?--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 22:17, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
:::At least six months if not longer - or even wait until you are older. Best to put the idea completely out of your head until then. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 22:44, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

== Plan of action ==

I said [[User talk:Anderson#Plan of action|Here]] that i am going to follow the plan left on my TP.--[[User:Anderson|<b>Anderson</b>]] - [[User talk:Anderson|<b>What's up?</b>]] 23:05, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
:So follow it then, and don't keep asking questions about what you have already been told and already know, or you'll soon find yourself getting no help or advice from anybody at all.. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 23:13, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

== Re ==

I apologize for the same. Never thought it would become so messy. <span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 06:34, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

== RE: confirmation status - Jacob Foreman ==

Hi,

I am currently reviewing an entry for Dr. Andrew Michta who is my superior at the German Marshall Fund of the United States. He wrote to me recently asking to update his Wikipedia entry as it requires an update. I wrote his new bio and received a photograph i would like to upload.

I understand that if you grant me the access and upgrade with "autoconfirmed" status, I will be able to finish the document.

His original message to me:

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Michta
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:16 PM
To: Jacob Foreman
Subject: Wiki photo

Jacob
I sent you a photo for the wiki page. Could you pls upload to the existing entry. I will forward you the revised entry shortly. Thx.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Foreman2005|Foreman2005]] ([[User talk:Foreman2005|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Foreman2005|contribs]]) 14:19, 7 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::Please watch  for an administrator's decision  on  the [[WP:PERM]]  page. Thanks. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:54, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

== Vandalism and Rollback Rights? ==

Hi, How does one determine another users sufficient counter vandalism activity when they request rollback rights please? Thanks --[[User:JetBlast|JetBlast]] ([[User talk:JetBlast|talk]]) 18:51, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

:It's assessed by looking  at the overall number of edits, the number of correct vs. incorrect manual counter-vandalism reverts. However, an admin's decision  to  grant  the tool is also .based on  many  other criteria. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 05:03, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

== Editor Review/Eventual RFA ==

Hello Kudpung. I read that you were willing to consider nominating editors for adminship. I tried an editor review, but a few weeks later, nothing has happened and I considered self-nominating my self for RFA with the intention of getting some feedback/constructive criticism, but I felt like that was somewhat disingenuous so I decided to ask a user willing to consider nominating people for RFA. I know right off the bat my edit count is low, but recently (the past month or so) I have gotten much more involved and hope to stay that way. So if you wouldn't mind taking a minute to give me some feedback, I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance. [[User:Go Phightins!|Go Phightins!]] ([[User talk:Go Phightins!|talk]]) 03:25, 8 September 2012 (UTC) (I'm watching your page so no need for talkback)

:Good morning. I'm looking  into this for you. In  the meantime [[User:Kudpung/RfA criteria#Criteria|check this out]] and see how you  fare,  and read [[WP:Advice for RfA candidates]] and follow all  the links in  the article and its footnotes. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 05:07, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:I've done a few quick  checks of your editing  history. If you  have followed the links I gave you above and read everything  meticulously, I'm sure you will understand why you will not be ready for adminship any time yet. Running for adminship just to obtain feedback would be see in very bad light and may compromise a future run. You'll  probably find also that you have not really made enough  contributions yet for anyone to  be able to apply any metrics to your editor review. I would suggest that you read our policies on article creation, especially [[WP:N]], and if you  read [[WP:NPP]] carefully and [[WP:DELETION]], you  may wish to help out on new page patrol,  but  stay  away  from  any  contentious maintenance and admin areas until you have a lot more experience. You  might  also  like to  check out the work  that  the people do  at  the [[WP:CVU|CVU]],  and if you  get  good enough  at  it  you  may  be able to  apply  for [[WP:Rollback|Rollback]] rights. If you  need help or advice at  any  time, don't  hesitate to  ask me. Happy editing! [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:29, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

::Thanks, I read the advice before asking you, and that's exactly why I didn't self-nom...I've been doing NPP for a few months now. I'll check out the counter-vandalism unit, wasn't familiar with it. Thanks. [[User:Go Phightins!|Go Phightins!]] ([[User talk:Go Phightins!|talk]]) 10:12, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Redundant butting-in, no doubt: many editors at RfA require significant article creation and contribution. Just patrolling, even if someone has done a lot of it, is rarely considered enough. Good luck. (And: hey Kudpung, how you doing?) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 23:32, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::::Fine thanks :) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 13:25, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

== [[WP:PERM/R]] ==

:I've added a request there, But there has been no activity there since then except for the archiving. Could you take a look Please?--[[User:Calm As Midnight|Calm]] [[User talk:Calm As Midnight|As]] [[Special:Contributions/Calm As Midnight|Midnight]] 03:31, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::Hi. There is absolutely  no  urgency  for having  the use of the tools that  are granted at  PERM. You  can rest assured that plenty  of admins have those pages on  their watch lists and will get around to it soon. Remember also  that  a great many active admins live in  ''very''  different time zones across the globe - me for example ;) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 05:41, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

== [[WP:PERM/C]] ==

Hi Kudpung,

Regarding [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions/Confirmed&diff=511437492&oldid=511390608 this comment] by an IP, I'm concerned Anderson is clerking by editing anonymously. Could you look into this matter? Cheers, --[[User:Calm As Midnight|Calm]] [[User talk:Calm As Midnight|As]] [[Special:Contributions/Calm As Midnight|Midnight]] 21:33, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:Anderson got himself blocked by using that IP to clerk at the admin areas.--[[User:Calm As Midnight|Calm]] [[User talk:Calm As Midnight|As]] [[Special:Contributions/Calm As Midnight|Midnight]] 21:59, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


:I  think the new ANI  it  totally  supefluos and should be closed to  save wasting  more admin  time and attracting  unnecessary  comments to  the board from univolved non admins. There's also  a new issue that  I  will  expose later. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 23:34, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:I agree. this issue is going too far.--[[User:Calm As Midnight|Calm]] [[User talk:Calm As Midnight|As]] [[Special:Contributions/Calm As Midnight|Midnight]] 23:38, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::Forgive me for saying  so, but with only  200 edits, I think you should stay out of it (and all  admin  areas)  unless you  are directly  involved - that  kind of messing  around is what  got  Anderson  where he is now.  [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 23:44, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:I'll start contributing around these areas when i've been here for about 6 months.--[[User:Calm As Midnight|Calm]] [[User talk:Calm As Midnight|As]] [[Special:Contributions/Calm As Midnight|Midnight]] 23:53, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::Please also  stay  away  from page patrolling until  you  have read [[WP:NPP]] and WP:DELETION and fully  understood them. Thanks. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 23:58, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::Note that the above user is a checkuser-confirmed sock of [[User:Anderson|Anderson]] himself. [[User:Reaper Eternal|Reaper Eternal]] ([[User talk:Reaper Eternal|talk]]) 01:17, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
:::I know, I  know :) and there's more to  come. Just  hang on. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 01:36, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
:::See: [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Scottdelaney1067]]. I don't  know if the CU  will accept this, but  I  feel  a sock  report  should go  on  record. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 02:02, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
:::OK, well  it's at [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Anderson]]. Looks like someone else had a quicker connection  than mine although  mine was more detailed and listed the sockmaster. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 03:42, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Timeshift9 (2nd nomination)]] ==

Hi Kudpung. Because you participated in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=511489379#User_page_breaching_wikipedia_policies Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User page breaching wikipedia policies], you may be interested in [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Timeshift9 (2nd nomination)]]. [[User:Cunard|Cunard]] ([[User talk:Cunard|talk]]) 06:11, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

<s>{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Administrator Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Admin's Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | What an outstanding admin! [[User:Yeknom Dnalsli|Yeknom Dnalsli]] ([[User talk:Yeknom Dnalsli|expound your voicebox here]]) 09:53, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
|}</s>
Wow! Thanks! What on  earth did I do  to  deserve it? :) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:57, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
:You deserve it because...well the barnstar explains it. [[User:Yeknom Dnalsli|Yeknom Dnalsli]] ([[User talk:Yeknom Dnalsli|expound your voicebox here]]) 09:59, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
::Barnstars from sockpuppets are worthless. Blocked. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 07:51, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

== Non-admin "speedy deletion decline" policy or guideline? ==

Hi Kudpung,<br />
For starters, yep, I am very well aware that I ''should'' be editing en.wp's core content rather than hanging round at [[WP:NPP]].  That said, I've found a little niche there. I'm often frustrated with [[WP:CSD]] tagging for articles that don't meet the CSD criteria. I've looked all over the place, but can't find a specific policy or guideline that allows non-admins to decline CSDs. (Apart from [[Wikipedia:Ignore all rules]] of course, which I think should be re-named "[[Wikipedia:Ignore one rule]]".)<br />
Could you possibly point me to a policy or guideline that may cover non-admin speedy deletion declines? --[[User:Shirt58|Shirt58]] ([[User talk:Shirt58|talk]]) 11:53, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

:Any editor in good standing can remove an incorrectly applied CSD tag and/or change the criterion, ''and'' warn the patroller. That's why those functions are available to all users in Twinkle with  a CSD-Decline template in  the drop  down Twinkle menu and warning  messages. There's no  need to cite a policy  because there probably isn't one, but you  might like to  check out  [[WP:DELETION]]  and [[WP:CSD]] to  save me looking for you . [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 12:01, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

::{{tps}} Non-admins may contest speedy deletions that are done improperly. At the end of the day, a CSD tag is just a template, although it may have bigger ramifications. Twinkle doesn't always mark the page as patrolled, so I take a look at it, and on occasion, when I find an incorrect CSD tag, I'll contest it using the [[WP: CSDH| CSD Helper Script]]. Hope this helped, [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric]] [[User talk: Electriccatfish2|Catfish]] 00:10, 10 September 2012 (UTC).

:::In some circumstances, I could easily envision myself replacing a CSD tag - lets say A7 - with a PROD tag, or even nominating it for deletion at AfD. CSD-A7 is only for articles on living beings (i.e. individual people or animals), organizations, or web content where there is ''no'' assertion of notability whatsoever. If notability is asserted but the claims are not credible, and there are no reliable sources backing them up (this excludes self-published sources), then I would be inclined to add a PROD tag on the basis that I highly doubt it would survive AfD. Then of course, there are new articles in which notability is asserted, there are reliable sources, but someone ''still'' slaps a CSD tag on it. I'd be bold and remove it because it clearly does meet the threshold for an acceptable article, at least on face value (whether it would survive at AfD, who knows until it's nominated). [[User:Kurtis|Kurtis]] ([[User talk:Kurtis|talk]]) 01:47, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

This discussion  is now closed. Thanks everyone for your input. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 01:51, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

== Thank you ==
Could you please permanently semi-protect it? I do not wish another incident like this to occur again. Cheers! [[User:RoryReloaded|<span style="color:red;">Rory</span>]] [[User talk:RoryReloaded|<sup style="color:pink;">Talk</sup>]] 13:16, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
:Thanks [[User:RoryReloaded|<span style="color:red;">Rory</span>]] [[User talk:RoryReloaded|<sup style="color:pink;">Talk</sup>]] 13:20, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
:{{done}}. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 13:21, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

==Page Curation update==
Hey all :). We've just deployed another set of features for Page Curation. They include flyouts from the icons in [[Special:NewPagesFeed]], showing who reviewed an article and when, a listing of this in the "info" flyout, and a general re-jigging of the info flyout - we've also fixed the weird bug with page_titles_having_underscores_instead_of_spaces in messages sent to talkpages, and introduced [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=pagetriage-deletion&user=&page=&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_patrol_log=1&hide_review_log=1 CSD logging]! As always, these features will need some work - but any feedback would be [[Wikipedia talk:Page Curation|most welcome]]. Thanks! [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 18:20, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

== A pie for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:A very beautiful Nectarine Pie.jpg|120px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thanks for the collapsebox tip! [[User:Dan653|Dan653]] ([[User talk:Dan653|talk]]) 19:58, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
|}

== Page notices ==

Please do not leave notice after notice on my talk page please. Spend your time here usefully. [[User:Intoronto1125|<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">Intoronto1125</span>]][[User talk:Intoronto1125|<b style="color:red;">Talk</b>]][[Special:Contributions/Intoronto1125|<span style="color:orange;">Contributions</span>]]  04:30, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
:I appear to be not the only editor or admin who  has expressed concerns about your tagging  of new pages. Please spend ''your''  time here usefully, adopt a modicum  of civility, and consider refraining  from  patrolling pages until you can demonstrate that you can do it  with  fewer errors.In  extreme cases, persistent  wrong  tagging  can be considered disruptive editing. Thanks. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 04:41, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

:{{tps}}This reminds me of my first trip to ANI. I used an edit summary like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Intoronto1125&diff=prev&oldid=511794306 this] and instead of a peaceful talk page discussion I got a chastising at ANI. In short, assume that when an admin posts on your talk page repeatedly, assume they have a good reason to, because they're trying to help you.--[[User:Jasper Deng|Jasper Deng]] [[User talk:Jasper Deng|(talk)]] 04:49, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 10 September 2012 ==

<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2012-09-10}}
</div><!--Volume 8, Issue 37-->
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
* '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]'''
* [[Wikipedia:Signpost/Single|Single-page]]
* [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]]
* [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 05:16, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0352 -->

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Diligence'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | A small token of appreciation for your continuing diligent and accurate work at [[WP:PERM]]. [[User:Yunshui|Yunshui]]&nbsp;'''[[User talk:Yunshui|雲]]&zwj;[[Special:Contributions/Yunshui|水]]''' 10:44, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
|}
:Thanks Yunsh. Much appreciated. You don't do too bad there yourself :) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 11:09, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

== Peacocking of Sibichen K Mathew from multiple IPs ==

Hi Kudpung, unsourced content continues to be inserted into [[Sibichen K Mathew]]  from multiple IPs despite several reversions and warnings. Could you please take a look. Thanks [[User:Sesamevoila|Sesamevoila]] ([[User talk:Sesamevoila|talk]]) 11:41, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

:I've semi protected the page for a week. You  will  only  have to  contend with  any  registered users. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 12:08, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

== RFPP - Beast Cops ==

Thanks for the heads-up at RFPP. I couldn't make heads or tails of what was going on there (I didn't see how it was vandalism at all), but a little digging showed that the IPs were running amok on that and several other articles. The editors continually reverting them weren't helping matters at all, so I just took the article to RFPP and the IPs to AIV. If I felt like I knew a little more of the background, I would have just taken the whole lot to ANEW. As it is, at least one of the confirmed accounts involved ended up at ANEW anyway (IIRC). Thanks again, cheers! --[[User:Tgeairn|Tgeairn]] ([[User talk:Tgeairn|talk]]) 03:35, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

== PERM3 ==

Hi Kudpung. I know you're against non-admin observations at PERM, and was wondering if [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_permissions%2FReviewer&diff=512101822&oldid=512100776 this] decline for reviewer from a non-admin is considered appropriate? Obviously, the user shouldn't have the right, but I didn't know non-admins were allowed to deny requests. <span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">[[User:TRLIJC19|<span style="color: blue;">TRLIJC19</span>]]&nbsp;([[User talk:TRLIJC19|<small><span style="color: green;">talk</span></small>]] • [[Special:Contributions/TRLIJC19|<small><span style="color: green;">contribs</span></small>]])</span> 03:45, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:Hello, TRLIJC19. Non-admins may close permission requests, just like AfD's. I usually stay away from clerking, and frown upon it when others do it but when it is a request from a user with 14 mainspace edits, I think it is appropriate to decline the request. <span title="Shoot!" style="font-family: Mono; font-weight: bold; cursor: crosshair;">-- Cheers, [[User:Riley Huntley|<span style="color:#00B74A;">Riley Huntley</span>]] <small><sub>[[User talk:Riley_Huntley|<span style="color:red;">talk</span>]]</sub></small></span> 03:55, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
{{ec}} :In my opinion, non admin closures are not appropriate, even if logically valid. Such  work is  often attributed to a kind of hat-collection by aspiring RfA candidates (it will show as edits to  PERM on  their edit count breakdown). I have [[Wikipedia talk:Requests for permissions|tried many times to  do  something  about  it]] but  without  success. The only  thing  I  can do  is to  get  in  first  with  admin  closures, which is the reason  why  I  have been working  on  PERM  for the past  few weeks. However, I can't be online 24/24,  and there is only  a handful  of admins that  watch  the PERM  pages. That said, no  requests are ever urgent, and there is no  need (again  in  ''my''  opinion)for this kind of 'clerking'. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 03:58, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

I  will  just  add that  masquerading  as admins will  even seriously  compromise a user's eventual request  for adminship.  In  order not  to  confuse new editors into  believing  that  such  comments come from admins, if at all necessary  (and in  most  cases they  are not), good faith non admin comments should contain a mention that the user is not an admin. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 06:41, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
::Of all people I thought you would know I am not aspiring RfA candidate ;), anyways, I won't "clerk" if that is what you would like. :) <span title="Shoot!" style="font-family: Mono; font-weight: bold; cursor: crosshair;">-- Cheers, [[User:Riley Huntley|<span style="color:#00B74A;">Riley Huntley</span>]] <small><sub>[[User talk:Riley_Huntley|<span style="color:red;">talk</span>]]</sub></small></span> 14:35, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:::That  was one of my  famous generalisations Riley - but  you  could remember to  add  NAC or NAO ;) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 14:51, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
::::{{tl|you've got mail}}. No tb needed, I watch my friends. <span title="Shoot!" style="font-family: Mono; font-weight: bold; cursor: crosshair;">-- Cheers, [[User:Riley Huntley|<span style="color:#00B74A;">Riley Huntley</span>]] <small><sub>[[User talk:Riley_Huntley|<span style="color:red;">talk</span>]]</sub></small></span> 15:09, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

== A comment you made on RFPP ==

Hi Kudpung, I noticed a [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection&diff=512112672&oldid=512111236 comment] you made on the Innocence of Muslims request and I just had a quick question about it. You mentioned that "any editor in good standing with sufficient neutral subject knowledge can revert to a stable version", I was just wondering if this was through making an edit request on the talk page, or if there was something else I haven't discovered yet? Regards, '''[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]''' ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 04:12, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:I  am  concerned that  the socks may  have sleepers, but it's not  possible to  do  a full-protect followed by  a semi in  one go, which  would have been ideal  here. Edit  requests should be made to restore to  a stable version, and when that  expires, any editors in  good standing  can continue to  revert  and warn users and make new PP requests if the disruption  continues, and/or report  users to  an appropriate noticeboard. Continued vigilance is required to detect new socks on this highly controversial article. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 04:30, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
::Right I see what you mean now, thanks. Just a quick note, I wasn't questioning your action, just what you meant by reverting to a stable version. Thanks, '''[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]''' ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 04:59, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:::I don't understand that either. Also, where do you see the allegations of socks? There was only a request for semi-protection at RFPP and I don't see any evidence of any substantial edit warring or anything else which might show socks in the history. I'm guessing that maybe you wanted to pick semi-protection instead of full protection, since you also suggested that any editor in good standing can revert. However, I happen to agree that the article ''should'' be fully protected, because people have been trying to revert certain information away from a related article which I think is essential. But I might ask that you reduce from 3 days down to 1 or 2? &mdash;[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<span style="color: #0c0;">Cup</span><span style="color: #630;">co</span>''''']] 05:29, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
{{ec}}:::My  take at  [[WP:RFPP]] is that in order to  prevent  further disruption relative urgency  is often required to  act  on  a request. Too  many  RFPP  requests expect  the admins to  review 100s of edits and asses which  ones are right  and which  ones are wrong. What  we sometimes do  is revert to  what  we feel  is a stable version  before the recent  trouble started, but  unfortunately, not  being  experts on  the subject matter, this is often not possible. The actual clean up relys on the due diligence of the article's regular good faith  editors. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 05:34, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:I see. In that case you might want to keep an eye on the {{tl|editprotected}}s (3 so far) at the bottom of [[Talk:Innocence of Muslims]]. &mdash;[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<span style="color: #0c0;">Cup</span><span style="color: #630;">co</span>''''']] 05:36, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
::When I  intervene to  protect a page, I  become [[WP:INVOLVED]] - I  have a very  conservative interpretation  as to  what I may or may  not do as an admin. I therefore do  not  adjudicate on the accuracy  of the requested edits; I  leave that up to non involved admins. However, in  deference to  the fact  that the article was only  recently  created, I have reduced the FPP to 1 day. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 05:50, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Thank you, I think that will work out very well in this case. The news organizations have been interviewing the actors and actresses who have made a joint statement. With luck all of their reports will be checked and published by 24 hours from your protection. &mdash;[[User talk:Cupco|'''''<span style="color: #0c0;">Cup</span><span style="color: #630;">co</span>''''']] 05:56, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
::::You  may  wish  also  to  check (as I  had)  just  how many  contributors have already  been blocked, and how many  of the IPs stem  from  the same range. You  may  well  find that any future IPs and new accounts that  are created to  edit  this article may  already  have a Wikipedia history. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 06:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Administrator Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Admin's Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I came online this morning to find [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Yunshui&diff=512108747&oldid=512037606 this request] on my talkpage: by the time I got to RPP you had already performed the Herculean task of clearing the backlog all by yourself! Sterling work, sir; I salute you once again. [[User:Yunshui|Yunshui]]&nbsp;'''[[User talk:Yunshui|雲]]&zwj;[[Special:Contributions/Yunshui|水]]''' 07:39, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
|}
Well thank you! I guess it was just  a time zone thing. I'm  still  also trying to get in quick enough at PERM to stave off the superfluous non admin clerking and closing. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 07:56, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

==Criticism==
Good day.  Instead of simply criticizing, you might take a minute to notice that I spend a great deal of time working on articles to assist editors.  I often also provide help at their talk pages and welcome them with information about the various links they might find helpful.  The only submissions I decline quickly are as follows:  blank pages, pages not in English, pages without any references at all, advertisements, nonsense pages of people who write single lines boasting about the prowess, good looks, best friend, etc., pages that read like diary entries etc. Rather than leave a braod, non-specific criticism on my talk page, it would be more constructive if you were specific.  If you feel I have improperly or unfairly declined an article, please advise me the name(s) of those articles and I will undo my decline.  If you are simply referring to the one instance where a partial sentence submitted as an article alerted you to the fact that writer was actually asking for assistance regarding their status, as I have already indicated, that wasn't clear at all to me or I would have assisted as I always do when asked.  Have a terrific day. Snowysusan 10:12, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

:Hi. I am known for being sometimes blunt, while nevertheless always polite and helpful. I spend a ''lot'' of my time helping new users where others can't be bothered to. AfC, like NPP, the CVUA, and a few other maintenance areas, is largely  staffed by new and inexperienced users themselves, so I don't always take the time to  wade through all their edits to  see if they  are getting  it right. That  said I  have over 10,000 articles on  my  watchlist and another 7,000 user talk  pages. I have now randomly checked some of your AfC declines and find you are doing a reasonably good job, but the issue with TruePepito  still stands as a 'criticism' because it  was obvious. You  may also wish to  correctly  format your signature with links to your user and talk  page - especially  where you  are doing  a job where many people may  wish  to  reply  to  you and/or find out  more about  you. Have a nice day, and if you  ever need help or advice, don't hesitate to ask me here. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 10:23, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

== Advice needed for rights ==

Hi Kudpung,<br/>
You had recently denied reviewer rights when I had applied, and also advised that I do more more vandalism before I could apply again and also apply for rollback. Do you think I can apply for rollback now. I din't apply because, when I view the diff, I already get a rollback option. Please advise. Thanks! <br/>
<span style="text-shadow:gray 3px 3px 2px;"><span style="color: Gray;"><sup></sup> [[User:Stausifr|<span style="color: Gray;">tausif</span>]]([[User talk:Stausifr|<span style="color: Gray;">talk</span>]])</span></span> 12:13, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 12:37, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:: Thanks :) <span style="text-shadow:gray 3px 3px 2px;"><span style="color: Gray;"><sup></sup> [[User:Stausifr|<span style="color: Gray;">tausif</span>]]([[User talk:Stausifr|<span style="color: Gray;">talk</span>]])</span></span> 12:52, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

==HELP==
Hi,<br />
I wanted to know whether I can rename a file at the commons for the reason '''''Disambiguate'''''? The auto-script doesn't provide that option. So can i manually edit the page with {{tl|rename media}} and give the reason as #7-Disambiguate? I asked this to SvenManguard but he isn't online. Thanks<span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 15:49, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:It all depends on the file/name, really. As you observed, to add a custom reason you cannot use the script, it must be done manually. On commons, criterion #7 is not the same as criterion #7 on Wikipedia, so don't add "#7" because it will probably be rejected because criterion #7 does not apply to the image. Could I please know the file name? If the request seems appropriate, I will move it. <span title="Shoot!" style="font-family: Mono; font-weight: bold; cursor: crosshair;">-- Cheers, [[User:Riley Huntley|<span style="color:#00B74A;">Riley Huntley</span>]] <small><sub>[[User talk:Riley_Huntley|<span style="color:red;">talk</span>]]</sub></small></span> 18:49, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
::Hi Riley, Thank you very much. But I just had come across a file in commons, and then I just left it, without bookmarking it...so I don't know the file name. Thanks for the help {{smiley}} <span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 19:07, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

== tagging ==

why did you delets voles airlines. i'm only 8 years old  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Love2puddings|Love2puddings]] ([[User talk:Love2puddings|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Love2puddings|contribs]]) 01:41, 14 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Hi Love2Puddings.  [[Voles airlines]] was deleted because we couldn't  find any  proof that  it  exists - we don't  include articles about  made up  stuff. I sent  you  a message over a month ago suggesting you improve the article to  avoid it  being  deleted but  you  didn't  reply. We  then did some checking and found that  it was not about  a real  airline at  all.  Wikipedia can be a difficult place to  write articles for - that's why it's usually done by grownups. If  you  have an idea for an article, why  not  talk  to  me about  it  first? I  would hate to  see you  waste your time on  an article that  will  get  deleted again. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 02:09, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
::Please also see [[WP: YOUNG]]. [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric]] [[User talk: Electriccatfish2|Catfish]] 17:06, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

== List of largest peaceful gatherings. ==

Hello. I just saw your question. It was not a casuality. As you could see, the date of the gathering was the same own day than the war of edits, which started a fight for cyphers since a political side claimed 2 million people had asisted and the other claimed they had been less than 500,000 people. Then both sides started using the article to mock the other political side, and were posting it on blogs, websites, etc. I tried to protect it (by undoing edits and by asking for protection) since I was afraid the war could affect other, more important and realistic entries.
[[Special:Contributions/85.219.58.184|85.219.58.184]] ([[User talk:85.219.58.184|talk]]) 19:09, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

:I'm sorry but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. --[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 20:02, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

== A Little Bit Mad ==

I'm not understanding why my contribution (the only contribution) for that None More Black demo got deleted. I know it wasn't sited, there was nowhere i could cite it from, i wrote from knowledge. It seems like you deleted it or got it deleted, can i please be told what i screwed up.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:RingAnimated|RingAnimated]] ([[User talk:RingAnimated|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/RingAnimated|contribs]]) 23:35, 14 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Are you  talking  about  something  that  happened over three months ago? Please refer to  any  comments or messages on  your talk  page. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 01:52, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

== Requested Move ==

Hi I wondered if you could move a page for me it is only a very minor move it is [[Stagecoach Southwest]] to [[Stagecoach South West]]. [[User:Mark999|Mark999]] ([[User talk:Mark999|talk]]) 04:31, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
:{{done}}. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 04:42, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

== Talkback ==

Hi Kudpung, I replied to both messages on my talk page. Since you're message asked that I reply here I'll leave this instead. '''[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]''' ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 08:20, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
:I've replied to the first one (on MySpace). '''[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]''' ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 03:54, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

== A bowl of strawberries for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Erdbeerteller01.jpg|120px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thanks for the messages about NPP, and talking about it with me. '''[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]''' ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 08:45, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
|}

== Human rights abuses in Jammu and Kashmir ==

Which section do you think I ought to comment on? As I do believe I have commented on most of them, why the TB on my talk page? [[User:Darkness Shines|Darkness Shines]] ([[User talk:Darkness Shines|talk]]) 10:00, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

:I sent  that  talkback  to  everyone as a FYI who  had recently  edited the article whether they  were involved in  the edit warring  and POV pushing  or not. I have no  opinions on  the content, but I am  concerned that the article should be neutral and that all content be adequately  sourced.  [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 10:08, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

==Advice on CSD==
Hello Kudpung, if you get a chance could you advise in [[Jarred_land|this case]], possibly by sending me a copy of the deleted article if permitted? There is a problem in general with CSD cat G4 as non-admins cannot see the deleted content therefore have to make educated guesses about it. I rarely nominate under that criteria but in this case it seemed relevant as all the sources in question were very dodgy ones often related to the subject or were IMDB style. Thanks, [[User:Valenciano|Valenciano]] ([[User talk:Valenciano|talk]]) 23:36, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

:This article is not deleted yet. It  is not  identical  and is more complete than the 2008 version that  was deleted for lack of solid references. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 00:23, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

== Indian education issues ==

As an admin with a keen interest in education-related articles, perhaps you might take a look at {{User|Rajatkalia‎}} and some of the articles he has been editing recently. I'm stepping back because I don't want to trip 3RR, but he needs to be reigned in. --[[User:Biker Biker|Biker Biker]] ([[User talk:Biker Biker|talk]]) 09:29, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
::Replied on  your tp. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:48, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

== About [[WP:RFP/RV]] ==

Hi,<br />
Sorry for troubling you for this petty issue and believe me I have <u>'''no urgency'''</u>, but my request at [[WP:RFP/RV]] is pending since 7 days. I am only concerned since all the requests that were posted after mine were answered and archived. I was just wondering whats wrong. <span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 14:52, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

:The new PC hasn't  been deployed yet  so actual  role for Reviewers hasn't  been clarified and are still  under discussion. I  asked for a moratorium on  according  reviewer rights,  so while other admi,ns may  occasionally  watch  the page, I  don't  review the requests there. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 01:01, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

::Is it not true that the trial PC will commence from December 1 ? <span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 09:43, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:::AFAIK, they  are still  drafting  the proposals for an RfC for the community  to  decide hiow it  will  deployed. if I  have understood correctly, if they  haven't  reached a consensus by  then, the PC will  go  ahead as per the default  suggested in  the RfC to  implement  it. The discussion(s) is/are such  a mess (for me anyway) I  gave up  following  them. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 10:11, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

::::Can you explain me one flaw with PC being the reason for which it wasn't extended to more articles. I mean it is so much better than semi-protection. And why wasn't there any proposal to merge the reviewer rights of editors with rollbackers, because rollbackers already understand vandalism and they can review the pages they are concerned with. <span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 10:39, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:::::To  be absolutely  honest, the first  deployment  of PC a couple of years ago was highly  controversial. In  fact  around 5,000 'Reviewer' accounts were created  simply  by  a bot. I  woke up  one morning  to  find I  was a Reviewer (in  the days long  before I  became an admin) and didn't  have the foggiest idea what it  was all about. To  this day, I reserve my  opinion on  the merits of PC, and will simply implement any rules (as an admin)  that I will be expected to do. For the last two years or more I have been more concerned with  the lack  of control over who  can patrol new pages which needs a far greater level of experience and knowledge of policy than ''any''  of these minor rights. Part of my  work  contributed to  getting  a new NPP feed developed and rewriting  the [[WP:NPP]]  page into  a kind of tutorial. There is also  the problem  that  these minor rights are clearly seen as trophies by  many rather than simply  a job  to  be done like NPP (which  doesn't  give the users a badge to  wear). Having  partly  followed some of the discussions, there appears to  be some distinction  between Rollbacker and Reviewer, but  as the opinions are mixed, I  can't  characterise on  it. What  I  would would  like to  see in  the future would be a right  that  combines Rollbacker, Reviewer, and NPPer all in  one, and with  some minimum  criteria for experience for it. Naturally the hat-collectors would object and vote it  down  though. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 10:58, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

{{outdent}}Yes, that is so true. But then, why you don't start some discussion in village pump. I think Rollback+Reviewer+NPP into one right with some added min criteria <u>will be</u> supported. <span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 11:09, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:You've probably  noticed that  I'm  a very  busy  admin  and I  can't  do  everything  at  once! While the WMF has taken on  the role of developing  NPP  solutions, I  am  a mere unpaid volunteer ;) What  you  have suggested  however, is already on  the cards and drafted, but  I  will  wait  until  the outcome of PC is settled, and seen it  working  for a while, and seen what  happens when we get  the CVUA problems sorted out. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 11:25, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

::"Naturally the hat-collectors would object and vote it down though" ... actually, I'm not so sure they would. After all, it would be a new style of hat (albeit just a combination of three existing hats), and if there's one thing hat-collectors love, it's new hats! Even if you laid down a set of minimum requirements to get it, one suspects the first thing they would be thinking, is how to edit in order to meet those requirements. Or, how to persuade you to reduce the requirements so that it could be potentially within their reach. Not how to vote down the proposal. --[[User:Demiurge1000|Demiurge1000]] ([[User_talk:Demiurge1000|talk]]) 11:44, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:::Hahah...I agree. ''if there's one thing hat-collectors love, it's new hats!'' {{smiley}}. <span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 11:49, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

::{{ec}}:::Valid points, Demiurge. What I am privy to,  however, are the free comments boxes in the NPP survey I initiated a year  ago. Among  the 3,000 or so respondents, the answers to neutrally  phrased questions  were split  50/50 for and against  a user right  for NPP. Interestingly, the reasons either way  were varied. Some said we have enough  user rights already -  which  is understandable, while some simply  argued that  because WP  is the 'pedia anyione can edit, it  should be the one anyone can 'unedit'. Among  those who  were for an NPP right, were users who  suggested that  maturity  and experience are required for the task and that  some control  should be introduced, while others appeared to  welcome the thought  of yet another hat to  collect. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 11:57, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

::::::Introducing a new right would obviously create a problem, but merging all powers of three rights into one might not. <span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 12:07, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:::::::Which  not  only  would introduce some economy  of work for the two  or thee admins who regulalry watch  the PERM pages, but  also, if the bar were high  enough, assure some quality.  Demiurge is on  the ball  with  '' 'one suspects the first thing they would be thinking, is how to edit in order to meet those requirements' ''  - which  is a poignant  reality I'm  well  aware of as I've seen with  all  my  chasing  of the 100-edits newbies away  from  'clerking'  admin areas, but  if we are able to  sort the wheat from  the chaff, some good may  come of it. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 12:22, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:::Are you sure that rollbacker and possible NPPer should be the same right? There quite different. --[[User talk:Mysterytrey#top|Mysterytrey]] 22:42, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

== ANI closure on BWilkins ==

I think that sent the wrong message. I wish I'd seen it before it was closed but I was away. This was not acceptable behavior. Not linking accounts clearly, signing with a name that isn't the account name, implying that the account has Admin tools, not making it clear that those tools are in abeyance, etc. I'm off to bed now but may open a new section tomorrow. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 20:52, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
:Hi  Doug. Don't  hesitate to  reopen it. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 00:53, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

==Starting a page with a Speedy Tag?==
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Isaac_Dailey&diff=512978470&oldid=512978317 This] is a bit odd? Why would someone start a page with a speedy deletion template on it? [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric]] [[User talk: Electriccatfish2|Catfish]] 21:04, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
:When that happens, check the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Isaac+Dailey log for the page].  This one had just been speedy deleted and the author recreated it.&nbsp;[[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']]&nbsp;[[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 21:07, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
::Yes, that's almost  always the case. Recreated usually  as a copy  past from  an  older version either stored locally  by  the creator before it  was deleted, or taken from  a search  engine cache. Something  I've always been meaning  to  include in  the [[WP:NPP]] tutorial  and never got round to. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 00:57, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

==Hantavirus Risk in Yosemite==

Hi, I noticed you have helped reduced the duration of [[User_talk:173.63.176.93#Welcome.21|User:173.63.176.93]]'s block because of reasons that I cannot see. However, I assume it has something to do with his involvement with [[Talk:Yosemite_National_Park#Hantavirus|Yosemite National Park's Talk Page]]. Recently, I have also tried to add a section acknowledging its the Hantavirus Risk in Yosemite National Park, but my edit was similarly dismissed by [[User_talk:Jojhutton#Yosemite_Hantavirus|User:Jojhutton]]. If the mention of deaths is the issue, then I believe we can include the information without directly mentioning the deaths.

I have written a new draft of this edit in one of my subpages: [[User:Airelor/Yosemite_National_Park]].

Please take a look and suggest any other edits or make any changes as you see fit before I try to add it to the main [[Yosemite_National_Park]] page. If you know of any administrators or Wikipedia Users you can refer this draft (or me) specifically to for advice about this matter, that would be very appreciated too. Thank you. [[User:Airelor|Airelor]] ([[User talk:Airelor|talk]]) 21:42, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

:Hi. I'm not  in  a position to  comment on the content of that  article except  that  all  controversal  content  must  be reliably  sourced, and that  no  undue weight  in  articles should be lent  to  either positive or negative aspects of the subject. I  don't  see where any  of your contributions have been reverted recently. The best  way  to  go  is to  continue discussion on the talk  page and if that  fails, take the issue to  [[WP:DRN]]. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 01:11, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

== Case Lecen ==
{{collapsetop|This discussion is closed. Please do not modify or add it.}}
Please that a look at this: [[User talk:Walrasiad#Warning]]. Also here: [[User talk:Cambalachero#Good to know that somethings never change]] and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Lecen

Most importantly, he's been blocked before: [[User talk:Lecen/Archive 12#January 2012]]
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=noticeboard&prefix=User+talk%3ALecen%2F&fulltext=Search+archives&fulltext=Search

Look at the tone and the threats Lecen has been up to. Nothing justifies that kind of threat, not even if he happened to be right. I was taking a look through his talk page archives, and he has a huge record of trolling like that and has reported other users to the Administrator's Noticeboard due to edit conflicts in the past. I was going to post a complaint myself, but decided to inform you first.

For how long do we have to tolerate bullies like that? [[User:Imnotkeller|I. N. Keller]] ([[User talk:Imnotkeller|talk]]) 22:52, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

:I've checked the links you provided but there's nothing I can do about it here. If you feel you have a case that may justify admin action on current or recent issues, the place to take it is [[WP:AN/I]], but note that citing very old issues probably won't cut ice. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 01:21, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

::Oh well. I'm not sure I can be bothered, really. But he *is* very unscrupulous. His kind is very common in the Portuguese Wikipedia - older users who revert newcomers's contributions and refuse to discuss it; if you try to get attention, they report you to other administrators or block you themselves (my first few contributions there, a few years ago, were all reversed and they refused to even answer my posts in the talk pages, so I left after only a week). I remember seeing a news piece on the technology section of a big news website about how that was the reason the pt.wiki was losing contributors. I hope the same is not happening to the English Wikipedia.

::Thanks and sorry for disturbing you again. [[User:Imnotkeller|I. N. Keller]] ([[User talk:Imnotkeller|talk]]) 01:35, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Kudpung. I've not quite figured out who Imnotkeller is/was, but they are obviously a returning editor trolling Lecen; an SPA "wise" beyond the 49 edits on this account. [[User:Br'er Rabbit|Br'er Rabbit]] ([[User talk:Br'er Rabbit|talk]]) 03:29, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:We have many editors who appear to be 'wise beyond their years'. It may be someone who edited for a long time (as I did) as an IP before registering. I think you'll have to AGF on this until you find some reasonably conclusive evidence to the contrary. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 03:58, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:: Ah, AGF; enabling the disruptive for years. There's still the SPA contrib history and the apparent collusion of the same folks badgering Lecen on all manner of requested moves in South America (and Portugal;) concerning Portuguese/Spanish (and Anglicisation of) terms. There's a history of socks in those discussions, too. FYI, I'm only using one account in there ;> [[User:Br'er Rabbit|Br'er Rabbit]] ([[User talk:Br'er Rabbit|talk]]) 04:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
:::As I  said, if you  have sufficient  evidence, feel  free to  take it  to  the appropriate noticeboard, but  you'll  need to  provide diffs. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 04:37, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:::I have, indeed, been editing Wikipedia since at least 2005 (probably before that), and have even made some mid to large-sized contributions, mostly as an IP address. I've also had a few accounts whose names and passwords I have long forgotten, as I will surely forget this one not long from now. So do take one suggestion from me: don't waste your time, I won't care at all if this account is blocked. In fact, I haven't stopped editing as an IP address, I use proxies (semi-private ones), and I have internet access at more than one location where I live (including public hostpots and some of my computer-illiterate neighboors's open ones); my home IP is also dynamic, in case you're wondering. Despite all that, I have never vandalised a single letter on Wikipedia, and have even reverted vandalism. And, please, Rabbit, if you want to troll, feel free to do it at my talk page (it's not like I ever look at it, anyway), it's very rude to keep pestering poor Kudpung - I've pestered him enough already. Go back to 4chan. [[User:Imnotkeller|I. N. Keller]] ([[User talk:Imnotkeller|talk]]) 05:06, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:::: Who's a troll? ;> [[User:Br'er Rabbit|Br'er Rabbit]] ([[User talk:Br'er Rabbit|talk]]) 05:18, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}

== You've got press ==

[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/wikipedia-gets-overdue-makeover-to-give-recognition-to-sciences-female-pioneers-8140122.html see Stonedwolf comment]. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 15:25, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:Not  me, been a musician all  my  life, and I  know nothing  about  French  history  at  all. Never heard of the article either. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 15:54, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
::Ok, I wonder who then - you seemed to fit the description pretty well. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 22:36, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

:::Probably a synthesis from what they remember. The only bit that matches is the retired academic in Thailand. --[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 22:49, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
::::No doubt. I can't see where his edits were, not that I've sdone much of a search. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 22:56, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

== Monitor ==

Hi,<br/>
Recently you gave me rollback rights. I have been rolling back couple vandalisms. Please let me know, if am not doing a good job.
<br/>
<span style="text-shadow:gray 3px 3px 2px;"><span style="color: Gray;"><sup></sup> [[User:Stausifr|<span style="color: Gray;">tausif</span>]]([[User talk:Stausifr|<span style="color: Gray;">talk</span>]])</span></span> 15:36, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 17 September 2012 ==

<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2012-09-17}}
</div><!--Volume 8, Issue 38-->
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">
* '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]'''
* [[Wikipedia:Signpost/Single|Single-page]]
* [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]]
* [[User:EdwardsBot|EdwardsBot]] ([[User talk:EdwardsBot|talk]]) 16:38, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0357 -->

==CVU/NPP==
Hi Kudpung! I love your suggestion the new CV School and I hope the rest of the CVUAers agree. I think that recruiting more admins for the CVUA would be quite beneficial and keep the project on the right foot. [[Impending Crisis of Afrika|Here]] is an odd hoax I caught on NPP tonight - I never knew that there was an impending crisis in Africa! Best, [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric]] [[User talk: Electriccatfish2|Catfish]] 00:57, 19 September 2012 (UTC).

:Whether the CVUers agree or not, except  for a reformatted home page and a rather good, summarised syllabus, the main underlying issues have not been addressed. Issues with  students and instructors  continue to  arise, while the social  'clerking' with  all  its mini templates continues up to a few hours ago. Projects are not  owned -  even by  the listed project  members. The consent  by  the CVUers is not  required for a change. More than sufficient  concerns have been expressed by  mature experienced users and admins and any changes will probably be made per [[WP:BRD]]. One 'coordinator' has apparently  already  resigned. My  draft  proposal  puts everything  on  one page and requires neither clerks, coordinators, bureaucracy, heirarchy, nor the use of dozens of miniature templates and micro discussions. Hopefully  this will  also  lead to  a drop  in  premature requests for user rights and unnecessary  clerking  of admin  areas. In  my  opinion, it  would be better to  adopt the new proposal  than to  risk  the CVUA being closed down  completely or merged to  another mentoring  program  where it  would add confusion, dilute the efficiency, and risk  again  being  controlled by  users who  may  not  have sufficient  experience or maturity for project  management. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 02:23, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

::I've been more involved in [[WP: UMPIRE]], a project that focuses on content recently. There is no bureaucracy and there are no coordinators, although one of our members successfully nominated another member for adminship recently. They also convinced me to write my first article. Umpires articles receive much vandalism, so we are considering setting up an Umpires patrol as part of the task force. We also hope to bring [[Joe West (umpire)]] or [[Jim Joyce]] to GA status, as well as getting a DYK for [[Chris Conroy]] (one of my first articles). I'd like to add some things to the syllabus section of the CV School draft, so do I have permission to edit it? Thanks, [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric]] [[User talk: Electriccatfish2|Catfish]] 16:54, 19 September 2012 (UTC).
 
:::I am very concerned that the page should stay as short as possible. I even believe I have left too much text in it. You can edit it, but I may revert it if I think it is not appropriate. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 19:01, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
::::All I have to say is for someone who said that he would stay out of the CVUA he seems extremly involved. The current trial was started because of you and we decided it was best to trial the system. But, about halfway through the trial, when you said "dans comment pretty much sums it up, there is no accountability" that was because of you because you said we should do away with all requirements. During the trial Vert had the great idea to have a curriclum, which we would have implemented too. Also, was anyone really thinking about closing down the CVUA or is that just a scaretactic? Ultimately, all this led to a total restructure of the project from someone, who said he wasn't going to be there. [[User:Dan653|Dan653]] ([[User talk:Dan653|talk]]) 23:05, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

== Case Lecen, part 2 ==
{{collapsetop|Closed - again. I don't  want to  see this petty  squabble continued on  my talk page. Noticeboards are thataway →}}
Hello, there. I'm Lecen, a.k.a. "the Evil one" according to someone above. I'd like to request you to talk to Imnotkeller and stop him from insulting me and the other users who have opposed the move request. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AWar_of_the_Ragamuffins&diff=512345208&oldid=512334365 This] is not acceptable and neither is calling us "trolls".[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AWar_of_the_Ragamuffins&diff=512979701&oldid=512977147] Also, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AWar_of_the_Ragamuffins&diff=512734678&oldidn=512612652 this] kind of reply is also unhelpful. You will notice that I made two or three comments at most on the discussion on that talk page. None of them directed to Imnotkeller. Please, talk to him and warn him that there are better ways to deal with other users. Regards, --[[User:Lecen|Lecen]] ([[User talk:Lecen|talk]]) 09:52, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

:I'm  sorry, but  my  talk  page is not  part of the dispute resolution department and I  have marked the previous discussion  as closed. If you have concerns about  another user please take it to an appropriate noticeboard. Remember that  any  user is perfectly  entitled to  officially  warn another user. After attempts at  discussion and a correct number of warnings without result, then escalate, but I  would advise however against going  to  [[WP:AN/I]] unless you  have a complaint that clearly requires admin action and can be supported by  diffs which  you  should list. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 10:11, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
::I would have gone to the ANI if I wanted to see him blocked, which isn't the case. I believe blocks should be carried on as last resorts. What I asked you, since he chose you as somekind of mediator, was to remind him that he should focus on content, not on an editor. --[[User:Lecen|Lecen]] ([[User talk:Lecen|talk]]) 10:31, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
:::I  have repeatedly given everyone the same response: ''take the complaints to  a noticeboard''. Please understand that  this is now closed as far as I am  concerned. Thanks. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 10:37, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
::::He already did. In fact, reporting me to ANI was the very first thing he did, a few hours after my edit and before even joining the discussion in the talk page. [[User:Imnotkeller|I. N. Keller]] ([[User talk:Imnotkeller|talk]]) 10:41, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
{{od}} I'm  closing  this again. Please take your petty  squabbles elsewhere. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 10:48, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
{{collapsebottom}}

==  User:Galaxycat - Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Autopatrolled ==

Thanks for your guidance - My apologies, I said new pages, when I should have said unique pages. I was impressed that this user often made very large edits of a good quantity, rather than the few words many editors add at a time (myself included). I had consulted [Wikipedia:Autopatrolled]]. I do see your points as valid, and now see that [[User:Galaxycat|Galaxycat]] needs to do more work - and in particular more quoting of [[Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources|reliable sources]]. I hope this comes to Galaxycat's attention, so he/she can learn, as I have from your feedback. [[User:Simuliid|<span style="color: #21610B; text-shadow: #5FB404 0 3px 3px;">'''Simuliid'''</span>]] [[User talk:Simuliid|<span style="color: #013ADF;">talk</span>]] 12:13, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

== RfC on text differentiation ==

Hi Kudpung--

It took me a little longer than I thought, but [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Syntax_differentiation_in_editing_window|I did open up an RfC on the proposal]] and have also posted it to relevant parts of the village pump.  I welcome your participation whenever you are able. [[User:I Jethrobot|<span style="color: green; font-family: Candara;"><b>I, Jethrobot</b></span>]][[User talk:I Jethrobot| <sup>drop me a line</sup>]] <small>(note: not a [[WP:BOT|bot]]!)</small> 00:04, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

== Salty Fingers (plant) ==

Kudpung, may I ask your comments on an AfD claim? It is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2012_September_20#Salty_Fingers_.28plant.29  Regards, [[User:Akolyth|Akolyth]] ([[User talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 

:I'm not  going  to  vote on  that  AfD bbut  here's my  take on  the sources:
*http://trademark.markify.com/trademarks/ctm/salty+fingers/010225423 Reliable. Confirms the name but  does not add to  notability
*http://sauceobsessive.blogspot.de/2012/02/fci-demo-from-sandro-romano-chef-de.html Personal  blog. Not a reliable source. Fleeting  mention  and a photo.
*http://centraleurope.koppertcress.com/en/content/salty-fingers Possibly  reliable. Not sure if this kind of website adds to  notability.
*http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/f-a-z-gourmetvison-die-rueckkehr-der-ente-11592344.html Newspaper. i'm  a bilingual  English-German speaker but  I  can't  find any  mention of it  amongst all  this Feinschmekerei.
*http://www.gourmetglobe.de/kolumnen/tempel-on-tour/1241-eine-neue-schoepfung-kohlund-zier-und-elverfeld-auf-sylt.html  Possibly  a mainstream gastronomy  publication.,  but  I  don't  see what  it  has to  do  with  the subject. Only  a very  fleeting  mention  of Salty  Fingers.
*http://www.papillesetpupilles.fr/2012/08/salty-fingers.html/  French  recipe site. Author believes 'Salty Fingers' are German words. Not  sure if such  sites assert notability for a plant without  any  taxonomic data.
[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:51, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your remarks. As regards the references, I have added a few new referencess but you may have overlooked the mentioning of ssalty Fingers in FAZ (if you use the search function). What it simply shows is, that recipes containing Salty Fingers are being used and discussed even by the most distinguished newspapers. Regards, [[User:Akolyth|Akolyth]] ([[User talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 12:23, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Brilliant Idea Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Brilliant Idea Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | While it's not over yet, I'd like to thank you for your hard with the [[wp:CVUA]] reform -- it's very appreciated! '''[[User:Theopolisme|<span style="color: #00B74A;">Theo</span>]][[User_Talk:Theopolisme|<span style="color: #37DB79;">polisme</span>]]''' 10:58, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
|}

:Kudpung, thank you so much for all of your effort at the CVUA. It's much appreciated. [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric Catfish]]<sup>[[User talk: Electriccatfish2|2]]</sup> 18:16, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

== Requesting a comment on prose on Peter Schiff article ==

Hi Kudpung. Could you take a quick look at the discussion on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peter_Schiff#KJMonkey_edits_--_Krugman_paragraph| Talk:Peter Schiff] and add your perspective?

At issue is the following phrase: "Krugman quoted Schiff from December 2009 as stating:" Previously, the article read as "Krugman quoted and referred to the following statement by Schiff from December, 2009:"

[[User:SPECIFICO|SPECIFICO]] believes the revised phrase may be interpreted as Krugman attributing an unsourced idea to Schiff whereas I do not see this implication. On the otherhand, I see the phrase "quoted and referred to" as redundant phrasing. 

This is the major issue I would like to have feedback on; if it is not too much trouble, I would appreciate if you could give feedback on the usage of "Keynesian" in the context of the article.

Thanks! [[User:Kjmonkey|K♪monkey<span style="color: maroon;">@(<span style="color: #Da0000;">'_'</span>)@</span>]] [[User talk:Kjmonkey|<span style="color: Silver;"><sub>Talk⇉</sub>✌</span>]] 20:22, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

:I understand your dilemma, but the best place to ask for impartial advice would be at a noticeboard such as [[WP:3O]]. That  said, whatever the choice of language by  Wkipedia editors, any  quotations should either be reported accurately and of course be perfectly  referenced or left  out  altogether. Having looked a the talk  page discussion however, perhaps if it  continues on its current polite lines, you may be able to resolve this among yourselves. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 00:54, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

::Thanks for your feedback. [[User:Kjmonkey|K♪monkey<span style="color: maroon;">@(<span style="color: #Da0000;">'_'</span>)@</span>]] [[User talk:Kjmonkey|<span style="color: Silver;"><sub>Talk⇉</sub>✌</span>]] 01:22, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

== Your offer ==

Hi - you offered to help with research on the "philosophy and sociology" of Wikipedia.  I would be very interested in taking you up on this.  Would you like to take it forward? [[User:Hestiaea|Hestiaea]] ([[User talk:Hestiaea|talk]]) 07:10, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

:Yes. Just tell me how and I'll see what I can do. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 07:27, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
:: Is emailing you OK?[[User:Hestiaea|Hestiaea]] ([[User talk:Hestiaea|talk]]) 08:11, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Certainly. And  I  would  then also let  you  have my  Skype name if you would like to  chat. --[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 08:14, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
:::: I don't understand Skype at all, or Twitter.  I will email you after breakfast, if that's OK. My timezone is London. [[User:Hestiaea|Hestiaea]] ([[User talk:Hestiaea|talk]]) 08:28, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

:::::I  woun't  dream  opf using  Twitter. never used it, and never will. Skype is extremely  easy and even easier to  set up  than most of those awful  social networking  sites. Send me an email after your breakfast. It's just  after lunchtime here. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 08:32, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::: Hi, thanks.  Probably later in the week - it's beginning of term and I am taking daughter to first day at college shortly.  Thanks for the interest.  I'll enquire about Skype, if it's as easy as you say. [[User:Hestiaea|Hestiaea]] ([[User talk:Hestiaea|talk]]) 09:30, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Email is also  fine :) [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:33, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

== CCSF ==

Not trying to second guess you, but was it your intention to protect the talk page at the above article and not the article?  Cause the red linkers are tearing it up at this moment and I do not know where to begin to straighten it out. [[User:Gtwfan52|Gtwfan52]] ([[User talk:Gtwfan52|talk]]) 05:23, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

:That  was my  error. After reading  the talk  page I  thought I  had gone back  to  the article when I  did the semi protection. I  have now reverted the article to  [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=City_College_of_San_Francisco&diff=next&oldid=513978468 this diff] hich  I  belive was the last  stable version, and Full protected it  for 24 hours. let  me know what  happens, bcause a full  protect  can't  be kept  on  for long. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 05:56, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
::Thanks!  I haven't much time, but there is another experienced editor on it too. [[User:Gtwfan52|Gtwfan52]] ([[User talk:Gtwfan52|talk]]) 06:09, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Remember that  for the next  24 hours only  admins can edit it. This might  make the others give up. Unfortunately, the vandals are registered and as far as I  can see, autoconfirmed, so  if they  continue to  create havoc , I'll  have to  consider blocking  them. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 06:13, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

== help ==

I wanted you to close --> [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MTV Europe Music Award for Best Indian Act]] and speedy keep it. I had nominated it earlier.
BTW, would you mind putting up a temp at the top of your talk page to skip to the bottom. Its too long to navigate. <span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 09:28, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

:Once started, AfD usually run for 7 days, or longer if a consensus is not reached. As nominator, you  are free to  leave a message on it that you withdraw the nomination and perhaps an administrator will close it early. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:35, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

::Put up my withdrawal on that AfD. Would you close it now? <span style="text-shadow:#333333 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Harsh_2580|Harsh]]</span>[[User talk:Harsh_2580|<span style="color: blue;"> <small>(talk) </small></span>]] 09:41, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

:::Closed as: ''Keep -  withdrawn by nominator''. You are now free to further develop  it, or merge and redirect it, whatever you  find most suitable. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 09:59, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

==Page Curation newsletter==
Hey {{BASEPAGENAME}}. This will be, if not our final newsletter, one of the final ones :). After months of churning away at this project, our final version (apart from a few tweaks and bugfixes) is now live. Changes between this and the last release include deletion tag logging, a centralised log, and fixes to things like edit summaries.

Hopefully you like what we've done with the place; suggestions for future work on it, complaints and bugs [[Wikipedia talk:Page Curation|to the usual address]] :). We'll be holding [[m:IRC office hours|a couple of office hours]] sessions, which I hope you'll all attend. Many thanks,  [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 11:25, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

== Hot Cat discussion at VPP ==

Thank you for your interest in the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Proposal:_enable_HotCat_for_all_editors_by_default]]. Please note that I have now proposed 5 different, more nuanced versions of the original suggestion, to better gauge to what level (if any) we are willing to make Hot Cat more accessible. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 16:39, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

== Page deleted for Thomas Hewitt Jones - living music composer - assumed copyright infringement incorrect ==

Hi Kudpung,
The page for Thomas Hewitt Jones which was assumed copyright infringment is not - it was a correct biography of a well-known living music composer (we are his management). All links and information were correct - can you reinstate the previous version?
Best, Michael  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Metronomemus|Metronomemus]] ([[User talk:Metronomemus|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Metronomemus|contribs]]) 03:21, 25 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Hello. I  fully  understand that  our rules and policies are not  adequately  explained to  new users and can be confusing, but there is unfortunately nothing I can do about that. This article was in  fact deleted due to not meeting several Wikipedia criteria:
#The article was a close paraphrasing of several web sources including, but not only,  [http://www.banksmusicpublications.co.uk/composer/thomas-hewitt-jones/3466/ this] and [http://www.dulwich.org.uk/oas-development/news/2011/08/01/thomas-hewitt-jones-%28oa%29-at-the-olympics this]. Please see [[Wikipedia:Copyright violations]].
#Wikipedia's basic notability criterion is "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". This coverage should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. The  sources provided were not reliable or did not  provide sufficient  coverage in   number, depth, focus, and scope.  If the subject is known for his work, third party sources are needed which discuss this. The subject seems like he could be notable enough for an article, but the sourcing needs to be addressed. Are there perhaps some news articles, books or magazine reviews, which discuss the subject?
#As the subject's agent, you and/or your co-workers should not  be creating  or editing Wikinpedia articles about subjects you  are closely  related to. Please see [[Wikipedia:Plain and simple conflict of interest guide]]. This also  applies to the original  creator of the article and any edits made by IP adresses that locate to  these editors,  your company, and/or any  of the computers used. 
:If  you  feel  you  can write a new, neutral  version, in  which  all  claims  are perfectly  referenced and sourced with  footnotes that comply  with  [[WP:BIO]] for biographies, [[WP:RS]] for sources, and [[WP:V]] for verifiability, you  can start  a new article in  you  user space at [[User:Metronomemus/Thomas Hewitt Jones (draft)]] where it  will  be reviewed by  an established editor  before being  moved to  mainspace. Please don't  hesitate to  ask  me for any  further advice. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 04:10, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

==Talkback==
{{talkback|I Jethrobot|Info|ts=06:01, 25 September 2012 (UTC)}}
[[User:I Jethrobot|<span style="color: green; font-family: Candara;"><b>I, Jethrobot</b></span>]][[User talk:I Jethrobot| <sup>drop me a line</sup>]] <small>(note: not a [[WP:BOT|bot]]!)</small> 06:01, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
...(and I just had one small question about my candidacy over on my talk page). [[User:I Jethrobot|<span style="color: green; font-family: Candara;"><b>I, Jethrobot</b></span>]][[User talk:I Jethrobot| <sup>drop me a line</sup>]] <small>(note: not a [[WP:BOT|bot]]!)</small> 06:12, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

:I was coming here to make fun of Jethrobot of another "double post", but dang, it is worse than I thought.  He wants to go over to the dark side of adminship.  But now, I can make fun of Kudpung.  *cough* adminreview *cough* emailed during wikimania *cough* [[User:Bgwhite|Bgwhite]] ([[User talk:Bgwhite|talk]]) 06:37, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
::It has indeed come to that.  But probably not for a good while from now-- I still have a life to live! :) [[User:I Jethrobot|<span style="color: green; font-family: Candara;"><b>I, Jethrobot</b></span>]][[User talk:I Jethrobot| <sup>drop me a line</sup>]] <small>(note: not a [[WP:BOT|bot]]!)</small> 07:20, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

==User:IAmCoolForever2023==
You just blocked User:User:IAmCoolForever2023, and I was wondering if you could revert the moves the user made on September 23.  The user previously moved several television network articles from their proper locations to locations he/she felt they belong without consensus or discussion back in August and early September.  At that time, all pages were reverted back to their proper location by [[User:Drmies]] with a warning to not move any pages without consensus. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">Neutralhomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;">Talk</span>]] • 07:22, 25 September 2012 (UTC)</small>
:It looks as if JamesBwatson has already done it in the last hour or so; if there any he missed that need a redirect  deletion, let me know. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 10:44, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
::I checked them all over and they all seem to be good.  Thanks for looking into them. :)  Take Care...<small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#900;">Neutralhomer</span>]] • [[User talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:Black;">Talk</span>]] • 22:19, 25 September 2012 (UTC)</small>

== [[Hanley Castle]] ==

Thanks. Your comment also remind me to update my entry in the list [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Worcestershire#Participants]] :-)

-- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 10:29, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

== Catarse Crowdfunding platform ==

Hi there, I'm the user who wanted to read about Catarse, but found that the article had been deleted, so went ahead and started a create/delete ping-pong match.  So now, after seeing it has been deleted a third time, I went through reading all the links I was directed to, such as:

[[Wikipedia:CSD#A7]]
[[Wikipedia:Why_was_the_page_I_created_deleted%3F]]
[[Wikipedia:Field_guide_to_proper_speedy_deletion]]
[[Wikipedia:Why_I_Hate_Speedy_Deleters]]

as well as the few links you provided on your talk page.  I've always known Wikipedia to be a huge project, but now I'm getting an idea about how complicated all the policies and procedures can be...WOW!

Anyways, I'd like to be able to continue working on the Catarse article to get it to an acceptable level of quality. As open-source software, I understand that Catarse being ''software'' available for download on GitHub rather than ''web content'' excludes it from qualifying under A7, as mentioned at [Wikipedia:NOTCSD#Non-criteria], does it not?

I truly believe this is an important step in changing how businesses are funded  By taking a similar step to Wikipedia's own inception and making the platform itself available to the public, Catarse allows anyone with an internet connection to start their own Crowd-funding service, something none of the other competitors allows.

I need to go to sleep now, because I work 12 hours of physycal labour per day, and need to rest.

Thank-you

--jonnynut 15:21, 25 September 2012 (UTC)  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jonnynut|Jonnynut]] ([[User talk:Jonnynut|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jonnynut|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Hi. The article was deleted three times already. That  means that  it  has been reviewed by  five experienced editors, two  of whom  are admins. Wikipedia's basic notability criterion is "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". This coverage should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. The current sources provided are not reliable (for instance the blog post), or not independent (such as hthe primary  source website). If the subject is known for its use, third party sources are needed which discuss this,. The subject seems like it could be notable enough for an article, but the sourcing needs to be addressed. Are there perhaps sometablished national  press articles, books or magazine reviews, which discuss the subject? [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 15:44, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

==Resumes==
Hi Kudpung! I occasionally see new pages that are just resumes of someone looking for a job and list their qualifications and contact info (I have to email oversight after I tag them). Does G11 apply to these types of pages? [[User: Electriccatfish2|Electric Catfish]] ([[User talk: Electriccatfish2|talk]]) 19:57, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
:Naturaly  if it's reasonably  clear that all they  are doing is promoting  themselves, G11 will  apply, and you  can also  throw in A7 for good measure. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung#top|talk]]) 20:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

== notability  ==
I'd like your opinion of my suggestion at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Kumar_Parakal_(3rd_nomination)&diff=514907391&oldid=514905405 Deletion Review]. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 23:47, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

== Thank you for the Wikilove! ==

Thank you very much for the kind words and Wikilove!  It is greatly appreciated.--[[User:Apokryltaros|Mr Fink]] ([[User talk:Apokryltaros|talk]]) 14:28, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for September 29==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited [[Vancouver Technical Secondary School]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[John Ferguson]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Vancouver_Technical_Secondary_School|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Vancouver_Technical_Secondary_School|fix with Dab solver]]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these [[User:DPL bot|opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, [[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 10:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

==Talkback==
{{talkback|Cncplayer|PERM|ts=16:59, 30 September 2012 (UTC)}}
[[User:Cncplayer|Command and Conquer Expert!]] <sup>[[User talk:Cncplayer|speak to me...]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Cncplayer|review me...]]</sub> 16:59, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
:I'll just stay away from those pages so I don't ruin any more. [[User:Cncplayer|Command and Conquer Expert!]] <sup>[[User talk:Cncplayer|speak to me...]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Cncplayer|review me...]]</sub> 17:22, 30 September 2012 (UTC)