View source for User talk:Buaidh/Archive 2012

{{annual archive}}

==January 2012 Newsletter for [[Wikipedia:WikiProject United States|WikiProject United States]] and supported projects==
{{Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Newsletter/Newsletter link|January 2012}}--[[User:Kumi-Taskbot|Kumi-Taskbot]] ([[User talk:Kumi-Taskbot|talk]]) 18:47, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

==Proposal to shut down WP Geographic Coordinates & ban coordinates on wikipedia articles==
[[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Geographical_coordinates#Proposal_for_the_closure_of_this_project|This means you.]] --[[User:Tagishsimon|Tagishsimon]] [[User_talk:Tagishsimon|(talk)]] 11:54, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

== [[Template:User WP Romania]] ==

Hi! I noticed you created {{tl|User WP Romania}} not too long ago, but there is a already a template {{tl|User WikiProject Romania}}. Do you mind merging the two? --[[User:Codrinb|Codrin.B]] ([[User talk:Codrinb|talk]]) 20:00, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

== Volcán Tacaná in 'List of Ultras of Mexico' ==

My primary mission on Wikipedia for the past several months has been updating, correcting and expanding the world's ultra prominent peaks articles. I believe I have found an error in the article [[List of Ultras of Mexico]]. I have been unable find a source that lists [[Volcán Tacaná]] as an ultra prominent peak. Nor have I found a source stating its prominence measure at all. In the process of deleting the volcano from the list, I noticed following note in the edit window: ''The following table is specially formatted to facilitate precise sorting. Please discuss any proposed changes at least a few days beforehand.'' So I cancelled my edit and instead addressed the issue on the [[Talk:List of Ultras of Mexico|article's talk page]]. However, I have boldly made the necessary corrections at the [[Volcán Tacaná]] page.

I have since then noticed that it was you that added the table note, so I thought I would run this all by you. Please read the post at  [[Talk:List of Ultras of Mexico]] for a full explanation if needed. Is it alright with you if I proceed with the edit? Is there anything about the table itself that would be disrupted. Off the top of my head, I believe I will also have to make some related edits at [[Ultra prominent peak]] and now that I have checked also the same thing at [[List of Ultras of Central America]]. Thoughts? Thank you. --[[User:Racerx11|Racerx11]] ([[User talk:Racerx11|talk]]) 15:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

:Please see [[Talk:Volcán Tacaná#Topographic prominence]].  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 18:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

::Just to let you know, I asked User:Viewfinder to help out with the Tacana prominence issue. I did this because: 1) I was pretty sure he would have an answer and 2) he is the most authoritative editor I know here with respect to topographic prominence and such. I have dealt with him before and have seen his edits and I trust his judgement. So, well, he said it's no ultra and has a 1030 m prom and I took this and ran with it. I have made correction at [[Volcán Tacaná]], [[List of Ultras of Mexico]], [[List of Ultras of Central America]] and [[Ultra prominent peak]]. I think I got it all right and will go over everything again tomorrow when I'm fresher, but you may want to check the ultra list pages that you are very familiar with and make sure they are all in order. Also, I haven't really checked into what other ralated articles may be affected. These were just "top of my head". Gotta go for now. Thanks.--[[User:Racerx11|Racerx11]] ([[User talk:Racerx11|talk]]) 06:05, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

:::I updated the [[List of the most prominent summits of North America]], the [[List of Ultras of North America]], the [[Mountain peaks of Central America]], the [[Mountain peaks of Mexico]], the [[Table of the highest major summits of North America]], and the [[Table of the major 4000 metre summits of North America]] to reflect a topographic prominence of 1030 m for Volcán Tacaná.  I also updated the [[List of Ultras of Canada]], the [[List of Ultras of Central America]], the [[List of Ultras of Greenland]], the [[List of Ultras of Mexico]], the [[List of Ultras of the Caribbean]], the [[List of Ultras of the United States]], the [[Most prominent mountain peaks of Alaska]], and the [[Mountain peaks of North America]] to reflect the new ultra counts.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 21:31, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

::::Very well done! I think you may have covered everything. Thank you very much.--[[User:Racerx11|Racerx11]] ([[User talk:Racerx11|talk]]) 22:57, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|Nomination for deletion]] of [[Template:User citizen Isle of Man]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:User citizen Isle of Man]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:User citizen Isle of Man|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> <span style="background-color:#C0C0C0">[[User:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#222222;">Egg</span>]] [[User_talk:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#7D7D7D;">Centri</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Egg Centric|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">c</span>]]</span> 15:34, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
:Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 18:10, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
::You are right that some of those userboxes are the same thing (Wales and Guernsey) so I have nominated them for deletion as well. Whichever way consensus goes we need to be consistent! <span style="background-color:#C0C0C0">[[User:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#222222;">Egg</span>]] [[User_talk:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#7D7D7D;">Centri</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Egg Centric|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">c</span>]]</span> 19:35, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
:::I stress again that these templates refer to regional citizenship as opposed to nationality.  Do you have a right to vote on the [[Isle of Man]]?  I don't wish to get involved in political disputes.  Since there are over 400 of these templates, you have a great deal of work to do.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 19:40, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
::::What is regional citizenship? No, I do not have the right to vote on the Isle of Man - but only because I need to be here for 12 months to do so, and I've been here all of a week (less, in fact, as I had to pop down to London for two days). I have no political dispute whatsoever, just a pedantic dispute {{=)}} <span style="background-color:#C0C0C0">[[User:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#222222;">Egg</span>]] [[User_talk:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#7D7D7D;">Centri</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Egg Centric|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">c</span>]]</span> 19:49, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::Pedantic?  Different countries have different forms of legal citizenship.  The United Kingdom and its various nations and realms are perhaps the most convoluted arrangements.  I created [[:Category:Regional citizenship user templates]] as a way to get around some of these legalistic distinctions.  Regional citizenship means a long term relationship with a geographic region as opposed to residence (sometimes temporary, as in your case) or nationality (which is a legal distinction often independent of place of residence.)  Would not the 12 month residence requirement for a British citizen to vote on the Isle of Mann be considered a requirement of regional citizenship?  If you are a citizen of the United States and you qualify to vote in a jurisdiction, you are also considered a citizen of that jurisdiction.  Jurisdictional citizenship extends to non-registered adults and minors if they are otherwise qualified to vote as well.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 20:11, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
::::::Aye, tis me that's being a pedant - I wasn't calling you one. Perhaps the templates could be reworded, e.g. "This user is a Welsh British Citizen", or "This user is Welsh, and a British Citizen", or "This user is Welsh, and therefore a British Citizen"... or even "This user considers themselves to be a Welsh Citizen". Just that my pedantic mind is focussed on not creating citizenships that don't exist. It certainly isn't a political point, fwiw I would certainly support the right of said citizenship possibilities to exist. But they don't, and so the userboxes should recongise that. Convoluted arrangements, indeed {{=)}} <span style="background-color:#C0C0C0">[[User:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#222222;">Egg</span>]] [[User_talk:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#7D7D7D;">Centri</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Egg Centric|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">c</span>]]</span> 21:33, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::::The following is from the [http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/aboutcitizenship/ Home Office]:
British citizenship is one of the six different forms of British nationality. Some of these were defined in the British Nationality Act 1981, which came into force on 1 January 1983. The laws defining how citizenship can be obtained changed on that date, which is why you will often see references to 1983 on this site.

The forms of nationality are:

    British citizenship;
    British overseas citizenship;
    British overseas territories citizenship;
    British national (overseas);
    British protected person; and
    British subject.

Other forms of British nationality have existed, but they are not current - for example, citizenship of the United Kingdom and colonies (CUKC) or British Dependent Territories citizenship.

Only British citizens, and certain British subjects with right of abode through qualifying connections under the Immigration Act 1971, have the right to live and work in the UK. People holding one of the other forms of nationality may live and work in the UK if their immigration status allows it.

British nationality is defined in law. Whether a person has a claim to British nationality can be determined by applying the definitions and requirements of the British Nationality Act 1981 and related legislation to the facts of their date and place of birth and descent.

The most acceptable evidence of British citizenship is a British passport. For advice on the documents needed for passport applications in the UK, your should read the guidance booklet supplied with passport application forms, visit the Identity and Passport Service website or phone 0300 222 0000. If you believe that you have a claim to British nationality but you cannot apply for a British passport because you do not have the documents needed, you may apply for a nationality status certificate.

British nationality law is complicated, and you are advised to read the Guide NS or obtain professional advice on your claim before applying for a nationality status certificate using Form NS. You can download the form and the guide from the right side of this page. Details of the fee and the payment slip can be found in our fees leaflet.

:::::::Virtually all nationalities involve just a single nation, but British citizenship encompasses the [[United Kingdom]] (a single state with perhaps four nations), the [[Isle of Man]], the [[Bailiwick of Guernsey]], and the [[Bailiwick of Jersey]].  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 00:22, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
::::::::I'm not sure where you're going with this. <span style="background-color:#C0C0C0">[[User:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#222222;">Egg</span>]] [[User_talk:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#7D7D7D;">Centri</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Egg Centric|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">c</span>]]</span> 16:50, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure.  With the rise of [[supranational]] entities and renewed interest in tradition regional identities, the notion of the traditional [[nation-state]] is being challenged as never before.  For example, a [[Glaswegian]] may identify as a citizen of the [[European Union]], a [[British citizen]], a citizen of the [[United Kingdom]], a citizen of the [[Great Britain]], a citizen of [[Scotland]], and perhaps one or more Scottish regions.  The [[British passport]]s for [[Gibraltarian]]s have the names of the European Union, the  [[United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland]], and [[Gibraltar]] embossed upon the face.  Perhaps we should let users identify themselves as they choose, despite the traditions of international law.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 01:52, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

===In any case===

I've changed my mind about the templates, they should stay based on the arguments that people should be allowed what they like on their talk pages. So... would you like to continue the above debate? I'm perfectly happy to, but don't want to waste yer time, it's something where we need to both be willing participants! <span style="background-color:#C0C0C0">[[User:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#222222;">Egg</span>]] [[User_talk:Egg Centric|<span style="color:#7D7D7D;">Centri</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Egg Centric|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">c</span>]]</span> 00:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
:I link to the regional user templates I've created at [[User:Buaidh/Regions]].  My intent was to provide as much flexibility as possible.  Britain may well have been short changed in the process.  I'd like to hear your thoughts.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 16:28, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
{{User citizen British|nocat=true}}{{User in the Isle of Man|nocat=true}}{{clear}}
::What do you think of the Isle of Man so far?  I've never visited the island.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 15:03, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Tireless Contributor Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For all your India related works on Wikipedia. Thank You :-) can't thank you enough... --&nbsp;[[User:ansumang|<span style="color: #007FFF">ɑηsuмaη</span>]] [[User talk:ansumang|<sup> ʈ ᶏ ɭ Ϟ</sup>]] 15:27, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
|}

==Disambiguation link notification==

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== WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening COTM  ==

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| 
| The current '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM|WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening Collaborations]]''' are: <br>
<big>'''[[Hobby farm]]'''</big><br>
<big>'''[[Raised bed gardening]]'''</big><br>
<big>'''[[Sustainable gardening]]'''</big><br>
<big>'''[[Urban horticulture]]'''</big><br>
<big>'''[[Vermicompost]]'''</big><br>
The next collaborations will be posted on April 1, 2012. ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM#Current nominations|Contribute here]])
|}

==Disambiguation link notification for March 8==

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:[[List of elevation extremes by country]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_elevation_extremes_by_country|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_elevation_extremes_by_country|fix with Dab solver]])
::added links pointing to [[Lake Asal]] and [[Chimborazo]]

:[[Table of the highest major summits of North America]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Table_of_the_highest_major_summits_of_North_America|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Table_of_the_highest_major_summits_of_North_America|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Sierra Nevada]]

:[[Table of the major 4000 metre summits of North America]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Table_of_the_major_4000_metre_summits_of_North_America|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Table_of_the_major_4000_metre_summits_of_North_America|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Sierra Nevada]]

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::added links pointing to [[Park Range]], [[Elk Mountains]], [[High Plains]], [[Sierra Blanca]] and [[Ruby Range]]

:[[Southern Rocky Mountains]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Southern_Rocky_Mountains|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Southern_Rocky_Mountains|fix with Dab solver]])
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== 17-03-2012 ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Guinness Glass 2010.jpg|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Have a good Saint Patrick's day!'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | May this day pass well for you.  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 12:37, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
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== WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening COTM  ==

{| align=center class="current" style="background:lightgreen; border: 1px solid #C0C090; padding: 6px; margin-bottom: 3px; border-radius: 15px; text-align:left; font-size: 95%; width: auto;"
|
| {{resize|1.2em|The current monthly '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM|WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening collaborations]]''' are:}}<br>

[[File:Pieskowa Skała ogród zamkowy.jpg|left|117px]]
:::::::*<big>'''[[Cash crop]]'''</big><br>
:::::::*<big>'''[[Energy crop]]'''</big><br>
:::::::*<big>'''[[Plant ecology]]'''</big><br>
:::::::*<big>'''[[Seedling]]'''</big><br>
:::::::*<big>'''[[Tropical horticulture]]'''</big><br>
{{center|The next collaborations will be posted on May 1, 2012. ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM#Current nominations|Contribute here!]])}}
|}

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::added links pointing to [[Santa Rosa Mountains]], [[Flat Tops]], [[Blue Mountains]] and [[Santa Catalina Island]]

:[[Table of the most prominent summits of the United States]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Table_of_the_most_prominent_summits_of_the_United_States|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Table_of_the_most_prominent_summits_of_the_United_States|fix with Dab solver]])
::added links pointing to [[Santa Rosa Mountains]], [[Flat Tops]] and [[Granite Range]]

:[[Table of the highest major summits of the United States]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Table_of_the_highest_major_summits_of_the_United_States|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Table_of_the_highest_major_summits_of_the_United_States|fix with Dab solver]])
::added links pointing to [[Flat Tops]] and [[Granite Range]]

:[[Highest mountain peaks of Canada]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Highest_mountain_peaks_of_Canada|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Highest_mountain_peaks_of_Canada|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Queen Elizabeth Range]]

:[[List of Ultras of the United States]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_Ultras_of_the_United_States|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_Ultras_of_the_United_States|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Granite Range]]

:[[Mountain peaks of Canada]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Mountain_peaks_of_Canada|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Mountain_peaks_of_Canada|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Queen Elizabeth Range]]

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== Nice user page  ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Flag of the United Nations.svg|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''I like the flags'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I like all the flags on your page [[User:Monocletophat123|Monocletophat123]] ([[User talk:Monocletophat123|talk]]) 02:25, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
|}

==Disambiguation link notification for April 13==

Hi. When you recently edited [[Colorado counties]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[San Juan County]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Colorado_counties|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Colorado_counties|fix with Dab solver]]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

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== Wiknic 2012 ==

Hey there! Would you like to help to organize a Denver/Boulder event for Wiknic 2012? I've listed a meetup at [[Wikipedia:Meetup/Boulder/June 2012|Boulder in June]], but we could move it to Denver if that'd be more convenient for people. Let me know! -- [[User:Gaurav|Gaurav]] ([[User talk:Gaurav|talk]]) 00:51, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
:Thanks for signing up -- I hope to meet you tomorrow at the [[Wikipedia:Meetup/Boulder/June 2012|Boulder Wiknic]]! -- [[User:Gaurav|Gaurav]] ([[User talk:Gaurav|talk]]) 02:59, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

== Upcoming Wikimedia events in Missouri and Kansas! ==
You're invited to 3 exciting events Wikipedians are planning in your region this June—a [[Wikipedia:Meetup/NARA 5|tour and meetup at the National Archives in Kansas City]], and Wiknics in [[Wikipedia:Meetup/Wichita|Wichita]] and [[Wikipedia:Meetup/St. Louis|St. Louis]]:
{|style="border: 3px solid #6881b9; margin: 0.5em; padding: 0.5em; border-radius: 8px;" cellpadding="5" width=80%
! colspan=2 | 
|-
| valign=top|
;[[Wikipedia:Meetup/NARA 5|Kansas City]]
:''Saturday, June 16, starting at 9 a.m.'' — [http://www.archives.gov/central-plains/kansas-city/ National Archives in Kansas City]
* This full-day event will include a tour of the facility; presentations from National Archives Wikipedian-in-Residence, [[User:Dominic|Dominic McDevitt-Parks]], and Exhibit Specialist, Dee Harris; and time in the research room to work on projects.  The focus of the projects will be scanning,  writing articles, transcribing, or categorizing images on Commons. <br/><br/> Wikipedians from St. Louis and elsewhere in the region are encouraged to make a day-trip of it and come to Kansas City for this special opportunity!<br/><br/>
----
|[[File:US-NARA-Seal.svg|center|150px]]
|-
| rowspan=2 valign=top |
And two local editions of the [[Wikipedia:Wiknic|Great American Wiknic]], the "picnic anyone can edit." Come meet (and geek out with, if you want) your local Wikipedians in a laid-back atmosphere:
;  [[Wikipedia:Meetup/Wichita|Wichita]]
: ''Saturday, June 23, starting at 1 p.m. — [http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Central+Riverside+Park+Wichita+KS Central Riverside Park]''
*Join the 1st annual Wichita Wiknic: The Sunflower State blooms Free Knowledge! 

; [[Wikipedia:Meetup/St. Louis|St. Louis]]
: ''Saturday, June 23, starting at 11 a.m. — [http://maps.google.com/maps?q=5595+Grand+Dr.St.+Louis,+Mo. Forest Park Visitors' Center]''
*Join the 2nd annual St Louis Wiknic: The Gateway to the West is now The Gateway to the Wiki!

|[[File:Wiknic logo.svg|center|200px]]
|} <small> Message delivered by [[User:Dominic|Dominic]]·[[User talk:Dominic|t]] 19:36, 24 May 2012 (UTC) </small>

== WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening COTM  ==

{| align=center class="current" style="background:lightgreen; border: 1px solid #C0C090; padding: 6px; margin-bottom: 3px; border-radius: 15px; text-align:left; font-size: 95%; width: auto;"
|
| {{resize|1.2em|The current monthly '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM|WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening collaborations]]''' are:}}<br>

[[File:Pieskowa Skała ogród zamkowy.jpg|left|117px]]
:::::::*<big>'''[[Blanching (horticulture)]]'''</big><br>
:::::::*<big>'''[[Damping off]]'''</big><br>
:::::::*<big>'''[[Gertrude Jekyll]]'''</big><br>
:::::::*<big>'''[[Horticultural flora]]'''</big><br>
:::::::*<big>'''[[Square foot gardening]]'''</big><br>
{{center|The next collaborations will be posted on July 1, 2012.<br>
To propose future collaborations, please [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM|contribute here!]]}}
|}

{{mdash}}<small><span style="font-family:arial;">[[User:Northamerica1000|Northamerica1000]]<sup>[[User_talk:Northamerica1000|(talk)]]</sup></span></small> 00:29, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

== Excess index links on U.S. states ==
Buaidh, do we really need that many links to outlines at the bottom of each state's article. I'm looking at these 5 level indents you've added to every U.S territory. It looks a lot like something we should avoid to me. The outlines for each state links to those indexes anyways. Do we really need links to [[Outline of history]] or [[Outline of geography]]?  Wouldn't just one link, to the state's index, be plenty? Was there some decision about this on the outlines project?-- [[User:Patrickneil|Patrick]], [[User talk:Patrickneil|<sub>o</sub><small>Ѻ</small><sup>∞</sup>]] 03:32, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
:Please see my reply at [[User talk:Patrickneil#Excess index links on U.S. states]].  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 22:31, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
::I suppose when I see a link to [[Outline of history]], I just have to ask how that relates to a given article? I suppose every single article with a History could have the same link, but what use would that be? If we wouldn't link to "[[History]]" then why link to "[[Outline of history]]"? Same with geography. When we have a portal or outline that directly relates to the article, I'm fine with including that, but its the larger, and I would say unrelated portals or outlines (say [[Portal:North America]]) that I do find to be excessive.-- [[User:Patrickneil|Patrick]], [[User talk:Patrickneil|<sub>o</sub><small>Ѻ</small><sup>∞</sup>]] 23:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
:::The [[Outline of history]] link can be deleted from many state articles, although it seems useful for some states such as [[California]].  Feel free to delete any links you feel are superfluous.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 23:32, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
::::Okay, then I'd like to go through the states and change them all along [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Virginia&diff=cur&oldid=prev these lines].  Any concerns there?-- [[User:Patrickneil|Patrick]], [[User talk:Patrickneil|<sub>o</sub><small>Ѻ</small><sup>∞</sup>]] 23:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::Please just be judicious since other users may have a different notion of what's superfluous.  Do you feel that a book link is superfluous?
:::::The <nowiki>==See also==</nowiki> section must be preceeded by, and end with, a {{tl|clear}} template.  Thanks, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 01:40, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::If there's a book on the same topic as the article, but linking to one that is on a larger topic seems just like we're trying to fill out every field, even if we don't have relevant info.-- [[User:Patrickneil|Patrick]], [[User talk:Patrickneil|<sub>o</sub><small>Ѻ</small><sup>∞</sup>]] 17:22, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::The [[Book:United States|United States Book]] has individual information for each of the states.  If a state has its own Book, [[Template:Cwb]] will link to it and the United States Book.  Likewise, [[Template:Csl]] will link to a state bibliography if one exists, now or in the future.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 17:28, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::::Buaidh, where else do you see this format being used? I very much have to disagree with adding links to pages that don't currently exist into this section. If they're created, then we can discuss adding them. The book on the United States is just a PDF version of each states article. As the editor adding these templates to so many articles, I think the impetuous is on you to say why we need a link to something like that.-- [[User:Patrickneil|Patrick]], [[User talk:Patrickneil|<sub>o</sub><small>Ѻ</small><sup>∞</sup>]] 22:02, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::Impetuous is an adjective.  I've been called a lot of things, but impetuous is not one.  Perhaps you mean onus.
:::::::::I think some users may find [[Book:United States]] useful.  You are being rather paternalistic about what other users should or should not have access to.  I am primarily trying to reduce our maintenance burden.
:::::::::I think that a U.S. state article should, at a minimum, contain links to the following articles if they exist:
:::::::::#Outline of state
:::::::::#Index of state-related articles
:::::::::#Bibliography of state
:::::::::#Portal for state
:::::::::#Book for state
:::::::::Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 22:53, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::Buaidh, I agree with this listing.  I don't see why we need links for the next level up, so to speak, e.g., the United States, North America, History, etc.  It also would be good to have agreement on where such links appear, and whether they should be repeated in ''See also'' if they are already in a navigation box.  Regards,  [[User:Kablammo|Kablammo]] ([[User talk:Kablammo|talk]]) 21:11, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Here's my suggestion for a minimal U.S. state <nowiki>==See also==</nowiki> section:

<code><nowiki>==See also==</nowiki><br/>
<nowiki>{{ports|United States|New York}}</nowiki><br/>
<nowiki>{{cwb}}</nowiki><br/>
<nowiki>*{{sl|Outline of New York}}</nowiki><br/>
<nowiki>**{{sl|Index of New York-related articles}}</nowiki><br/>
<nowiki>***{{csl|Bibliography of New York}}</nowiki><br/>
<nowiki>{{clear}}</nowiki></code>

Which renders as:
==See also==
{{ports|United States|New York}}
*[[Outline of New York]]
**[[Index of New York-related articles]]
***[[Bibliography of New York]]


Some states include one or more of these links on there state template, but many do not.  I feel we should include this minimal <nowiki>==See also==</nowiki> set regardless for consistency.  If the state WikiProject wishes to add additional links to the <nowiki>==See also==</nowiki> section, they should be free to do so.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 21:39, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

:That looks good. My only confusion there is why bother with the indents? I think its more common across Wikipedia to just have the bulleted list line up.-- [[User:Patrickneil|Patrick]], [[User talk:Patrickneil|<sub>o</sub><small>Ѻ</small><sup>∞</sup>]] 21:45, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
::The only reason I use these indents is to distinguish these links to three special topic overview articles from any subsequent general interest article links, e.g.,

==See also==
{{ports|United States|New York}}
*[[Outline of New York]]
**[[Index of New York-related articles]]
***[[Bibliography of New York]]
*[[List of New York state symbols]]
*[[List of people from New York]]
*[[List of places in New York]]
*[[National Register of Historic Places listings in New York]]
*[[USS New York|USS ''New York'']]


I suppose I could create a linkbox template or something else for these links.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 22:01, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I created [[Template:Oib]] which simplies the above to:

<code><nowiki>==See also==</nowiki><br/>
<nowiki>{{ports|United States|New York}}</nowiki><br/>
<nowiki>{{oib}}{{cwb}}</nowiki></code>

Which renders as:

==See also==
{{ports|United States|New York}}
* [[New York]]
* [[Outline of New York]]
* [[Index of New York-related articles]]
* [[Bibliography of New York]]


Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 16:16, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I've combined [[Template:Oib]] and Template:Cwb]] into new [[Template:Cto]] which further simpliflies the above to:

<code><nowiki>==See also==</nowiki><br/>
<nowiki>{{ports|United States|Indiana}}</nowiki><br/>
<nowiki>{{cto}}</nowiki></code>

Which renders as:

==See also==
{{ports|United States|Indiana}}
* [[Indiana]]
* [[Outline of Indiana]]
* [[Index of Indiana-related articles]]
* [[Book:Indiana]]


Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 00:51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

==Related information==
Hi--I don't think adding a "Related information" link is really necessary at the bottom of an external links section (re: Alaska, Illinois, etc.) It's not recommended at MOS:LAYOUT and it's only adding kbs and clutter, so I'm removing it on Alaska and probably Illinois. --[[User:Funandtrvl|Funandtrvl]] ([[User talk:Funandtrvl|talk]]) 22:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
:Please see my reply at [[User talk:Funandtrvl#Related information]].  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 22:31, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

== Link colors ==

Could we get you to read over [[WP:Link color]] before making links invisible to our editors. Wikipedia is not the place for nice colors - it is a place  to navigate topics. Pls do not chose esthetics over user accessibility.   [[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 01:31, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
:I give up.  What do you suggest for a #cc3333 background?  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 01:36, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
:::Any color that looks like a link..perhaps - #00006E [[History of Canada|<span style="color:#00006E">This looks like a link someone can click on</span>]] - <span style="color:pink">This does not look like a link</span>.[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 01:43, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
::::So what do you think of [[Template:Maryland]]?  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 04:52, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::That is horrible - [[Outline of Maryland]] and all the other white text is hiding the work of our editors. If i was the author of those articles I would be pissed noone will see the links, thus read the articles when it come to this template. In fact all the main articles are hidden. Why would color be more important then user accessibility. Can you '''pls follow our policy on this''' and fix [[Template:Colorado]] so the links can be seen. We dont have a need to get others involved do we?[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 18:15, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::So you don't see any situation where light links on a dark background is appropriate?  That seems pretty limiting.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 01:23, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::I dont think you understand the problem. Its not about what I or you like its about our readers having access to information. How are our readers to know its a link?  Hiding  [[internal link]]s makes navigation more difficult and is not a positive contribution to Wikipedia. Our goal is to help our readers - not provide nice colors that hide our main articles in templates made for the purpose of easy navigation. In this encyclopedia as with most of the internet,  words highlighted in [[blue]] are examples of internal links - not white or green or pink etc. The [[oops|<span style="color: red">Main Page</span>]] <span style="color: blue">is</span> linked somewhere in this [[Main Page|<span style="color: black">sentence</span>]], can  [[you|<span style="color: pink">you</span>]] find it [[and|<span style="color: green">and</span>]] the other <span style="color: grey">links</span> by moving your [[mouse|<span style="color: #552211">mouse</span>]] over [[every]] <span style="color: orange">word</span> to <span style="color: darkblue">identify</span> all the [[links|<span style="color: black">links</span>]]? This is what your asking our readers to do.[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 05:48, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::::I too believe in functionality before beauty, but I don't see how this preempts light blue links on a dark red background (colorado in the [[Spanish language]]).  I've been doing user interfaces for 41 years now, so I do have some experience in this area.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 14:25, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

== Overlinking ==

Can we get you to take more time with your mass edits. Your adding links in the see also section that are already linked in the articles like the word [[Canada]] or the Bibliographies that have there own sections with a '''main''' link. Also could we get you to only add links to portals that actually have info on the topic of the article that the portal links to. For instance  in the [[Ontario]] that is a province has no need to link to the commonwealth portal.....why because is not a country nor is there any info at the  commonwealth portal about Ontario. I will take the time later to fix all the overlinking as per our policies [[WP:SEEALSO]] and [[WP:Overlink]] [[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 15:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
:Thank you.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 15:30, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|Nomination for deletion]] of [[Template:Cto]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:Cto]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Cto|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> <small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 16:19, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
:Please see my response at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Cto]].  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 17:42, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
::Hi there. Please can you tell me why you left this notification on my user talk page Buaidh? As far as I am aware I've never edited or had anything to do with this template, I don't mind messages but ones that are out of the blue always are more intruiging. {{mono|:-)}} [[User:Thehelpfulone|<span style="color:red;">'''The'''</span>]][[User_talk:Thehelpfulone|<span style="color:black;"> '''Helpful'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Thehelpfulone|<span style="color:red;"> '''One'''</span>]] 23:36, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
:::You received this because you are a member of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Outlines|WikiProject Outlines]].  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 20:45, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|Nomination for deletion]] of [[Template:Ports]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:Ports]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Ports|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice-->[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 17:00, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
:Please see my response at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Ports]].  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 17:43, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
::For technical reasons, I suggest to avoid mass-adding the cto and ports templates until it becomes clear that they will be kept - otherwise their deletion will bring too much inconvenience. Regards. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 22:58, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
:::I concur.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 23:00, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

== Please stop ==

While it is under discussion please stop adding the template {{tl|cto}} to articles, as if the result is anything other than keep you are creating a mass of work for editors. There is no rush to complete the encyclopaedia and such changes can be done later, perhaps after changes to how it is used or it's precise formatting are agreed.

And note that your mass notification of editors of the discussion could be considered canvassing, and as such inappropriate. Usually no steps need to be taken to attract editors to TfD (the way the discussions are grouped by day means each discussion is seen by many editors automatically).--<small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 23:34, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
:Exactly, what are you trying to do? --<span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#ED791A 0em 0em 0.8em,#F55220 -0.8em -0.8em 0.9em,#1D6B00 0.7em 0.7em 0.8em;">[[User:Titodutta|<span style="color:#000000;">Tito Dutta</span>]] [[User talk:Titodutta|<span style="color:#000000;"><big>✉</big></span>]] </span> 00:02, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

:: Ah, sorry, I did not see the comment by Materialscientist above and your agreement to stop. The advice about canvassing though I think you should consider.--<small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 00:03, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
:::(ec) - best that we link to [[Wikipedia:Canvassing]] so it can be seen and read.[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 00:10, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
:Who'll revert his edits now? He has added these templates in too many articles! --<span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#ED791A 0em 0em 0.8em,#F55220 -0.8em -0.8em 0.9em,#1D6B00 0.7em 0.7em 0.8em;">[[User:Titodutta|<span style="color:#000000;">Tito Dutta</span>]] [[User talk:Titodutta|<span style="color:#000000;"><big>✉</big></span>]] </span> 00:06, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
::Err, please do not mass revert anything until the outcome is clear. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 00:14, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
:::See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=West_Bengal&diff=497293724&oldid=496289395#See_also this section] from a reader's pov tell me can you understand what has been suggested to "see also"? But, okay will not mass revert edits!--<span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#ED791A 0em 0em 0.8em,#F55220 -0.8em -0.8em 0.9em,#1D6B00 0.7em 0.7em 0.8em;">[[User:Titodutta|<span style="color:#000000;">Tito Dutta</span>]] [[User talk:Titodutta|<span style="color:#000000;"><big>✉</big></span>]] </span> 00:31, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

{{od}} Out of interest, exactly what criteria did you use in deciding whom to notify regarding these deletions? I find it odd that you apparently found the time to notify at least thirty editors and yet not me, considering I was one of the key participants in the previous discussion. [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 11:59, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
:My apologies.  I assumed you were already involved.  I notified the members of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Outlines]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Indexes]] who are directly involved.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 13:26, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

== "doc1" pages ==

Is there any particular reason you've chosen to create pages like [[Template:User Faroe Islands/doc1]] which need to be specified manually when calling {{tl|documentation}}, rather than just putting said page at [[Template:User Faroe Islands/doc]]? [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 08:48, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:User Faroe Islands/doc1]] is used by [[Template:User in the Faroe Islands]], [[Template:User from the Faroe Islands]], [[Template:User citizen Faroe Islands]], [[Template:User interest Faroe Islands]], [[Template:User WP Faroe Islands]], but unfortunately not [[Template:User Faroe Islands]] nor [[Template:User WikiProject Faroe Islands]] since those templates do not use documentation pages.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 13:40, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

:: <s>I don't understand. Why not simply convert [[Template:User Faroe Islands]] to ''use'' a doc page, which is five seconds' work?</s> [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 14:55, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

::: I get it now. It's because this is another walled garden of meta-templates ({{tl|uir}} this time). I take it there's no provision to convert [[Template:User Faroe Islands]] to call {{tl|uir}}, which would obviate the need for weird documentation hacks? [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 14:59, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

::::You make me out as some sort of weird software pervert.  No wonder the number of active Wikipedia editors has declined so rapidly.  If you met me in person, I'm sure you would find me quite conventional, knowledgeable, pleasant, and cooperative for an elderly person, even grandfatherly.  (My grandchildren appear on the second page [http://www.highcountryroses.com/High%20Country%20Roses.pdf here].)

::::There is no walled garden of any sort.  I thoroughly document all my templates so any user can understand their use.  A number of users have been involved in this effort, although I seem to be the only user left engaged.  I would love some help again.

::::[[Template:Uir]] has evolved over many years.  Template:Uir provides the logic to create regional userboxes, but its subdocuments create the documentation for the individual user templates.  The Template:User ''Region''/doc1 pages provide the custom data for each individual country or region.  This has helped us eliminate tens of thousands of lines of code.  I avoid altering templates created by others for fear of stepping on toes, but yes they could also access the data on the /doc1 pages.  Unlike the user templates that invoke Template:Uir, these templates employ a myiad of forms and formats.

::::Please see [[User:Buaidh/Regions]] for the regional user templates I try to coordinate.  I really don't care for userboxes, but I seem to have inadvertently volunteered for this sideline.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 15:21, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

::::'''BTW''':  Did you read my comment about the problem with flag icons on [[Template:Portal]] at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Ports]]?  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 15:45, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

==Table of United States Micropolitan Statistical Areas==
The page for the US table for Micorpolitan areas, why did you revert the changes made? I had the proper website, the United States census site for the 2010 census and 2011 estimates. The data that you changed back is wrong information.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kai662|Kai662]] ([[User talk:Kai662|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kai662|contribs]]) 07:35, 20 June 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:A number of users have changed data in the [[Table of United States Micropolitan Statistical Areas]].  Please check this table and make sure it agrees with the [http://www.census.gov/popest/data/metro/totals/2011/tables/CBSA-EST2011-01.xls U.S. Census Bureau estimates].  Thanks for your help, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 14:12, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

==Invitation to WikiProject Electrical engineering==

{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
| [[Image:Power plant.jpg|{{#ifeq:|yes|50px|100px}}]]
|
Hi fellow editor,<br>You are invited to join the '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Electrical engineering|WikiProject Electrical engineering]]''', a collaborative effort focused on improving Wikipedia's coverage of [[electrical engineering]]. If you'd like to join, add also your name to the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Electrical engineering#Participants|member list]].<br>Thanks for reading! [[User:SchreyP|SchreyP]]  <sup><small>([[User_talk:SchreyP|messages]])</small></sup> 18:44, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
|}



==Welcome to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Electrical engineering]]==

<div style="border: 2px solid navy; background: #F1F1F8; background-color:F1F1F8; padding: 1ex 1ex 1ex 1.5ex; margin: 0px 0px 1em 1em; font-size: 90%">
<div style="border-bottom: 2px dotted #484898">'''Welcome!'''</div>
[[Image:Power plant.jpg|90px|right]] 

Hi, and welcome to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Electrical engineering|WikiProject Electrical engineering]]!  We're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of all [[electrical engineering]] related articles.

We are just starting, so there are a variety of interesting things to do within the project; feel free to participate as much or as little as you like:

* Tag existing articles on their talk page with the {{Tl|WikiProject Electrical engineering}} template.
* Starting missing articles in the electrical engineering area.
You can use [[Outline of electrical engineering]] or [[Index of electrical engineering articles]] as a starting point.
* If you want to know how good our articles are?  Have a look at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Electrical engineering/Assessment|our assessment department]].
* If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask any fellow member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you.

Again, welcome!  We look forward to seeing you around!

[[User:SchreyP|SchreyP]]  <sup><small>([[User_talk:SchreyP|messages]])</small></sup> 19:00, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
</div>

== [[Template:Ports]] ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #FFFFFF;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[File:Portal Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Portal Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | The Portal Barnstar is awarded to Wikipedians who have made significant contributions to [[WP:PORTAL|topic portals]].<br />''People sure seem eager to delete the fine work you've done at [[Template:Ports]], some of whom haven't even considered the notion of merging the parameters to [[Template:Portal]] that aren't already a part of that template's options. Increased layout options improve the functionality of page layout in the encyclopedia; limiting layout options is inferior, in my opinion. Hopefully people will at least consider a merge. Thanks for your efforts to improve the encyclopedia for the public!  <small><span style="font-family:arial;">[[User:Northamerica1000|Northamerica1000]]<sup>[[User_talk:Northamerica1000|(talk)]]</sup></span></small> 14:41, 25 June 2012 (UTC)<br />''
|}

<!--Please do not edit below this line-->
== [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|Nomination for deletion]] of [[Template:Ll]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:Ll]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Ll|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> <small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 18:13, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

== Your recent comments ==

I would remind you that personal attacks such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2012_June_25&diff=prev&oldid=499321255] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JohnBlackburne&diff=prev&oldid=499322685] are [[WP:NPA|not accepted]]. Please stick to commenting on the encyclopaedia. I note other editors have also asked you to stop and slow above, i.e. [[#Excess index links on U.S. states]], [[#Related information]], [[#Overlinking]], and I would echo their remarks.--<small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 18:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
:My comments are not meant as a personal attack, but a statement of fact.  I know nothing about you, but I find your actions reprehensible.  Most sincerely, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 18:57, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

:P.S. – I heed those who have constructive criticisms of my work.  I have little use for those who just wish to harass other users.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 19:39, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

== editing the "see also" sections of pages, especially state pages ==

Hih Buaidh- I know there are some TFDs occurring for the see also and helper templates you've been working on. In the meantime, it appears you've been editing large numbers of articles to reflect alternate approaches to this section. It appears you've made edited four or five generations of the idea- from two templates ({{tl|oib}}, {{tl|cwb}}) to one ({{tl|cto}}), to an outline style (a series of {{tl|ctl}} links), to a second version of this ({{tl|ll}} links).

In looking through the deletion discussions, I wonder if part of the bias against your edits is that you continue to make largescale edits while the templates and concepts are being discussed. I'm suggesting that you leave them alone until [[WP:CON|consensus]] is achieved- I suspect that would ease other editors' minds.

What do you think about this? [[User:Tedder|tedder]] ([[User talk:Tedder|talk]]) 20:01, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

:Thank you [[User:Tedder|tedder]] for your polite note.  I believe that you are absolutely correct.  <s>At this point, I care little.  They can delete everything.  I'm tired of trying to work with imbeciles.</s>  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 20:41, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|Nomination for deletion]] of [[Template:Tol]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:Tol]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Tol|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> <small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 19:03, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

== Ports template ==

The [[Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2012_June_12#Template:Ports|TfD discussion]] closed as merge to {{tl|Portal}}. Any plans on doing the merge? <small><span style="font-family:arial;">[[User:Northamerica1000|Northamerica1000]]<sup>[[User_talk:Northamerica1000|(talk)]]</sup></span></small> 15:59, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
:I'll look at it in a few days.  I have a number of repairs to make first.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 18:58, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
::Great! It would be senseless for all of the options from the Ports template to be nonexistent in the encyclopedia. The information hasn't been deleted yet, but may be relatively soon. Here's the link: [[Template:Ports]]. <small><span style="font-family:arial;">[[User:Northamerica1000|Northamerica1000]]<sup>[[User_talk:Northamerica1000|(talk)]]</sup></span></small> 20:54, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

== pls stop adding red links to see also sections ==

Can we get you to '''STOP''' adding red links in see also sections as per our policy on the matter <big>'''[[WP:REDNOT]]'''</big>. I will give  you time to revert all these additions as I simply dont have time to go over every edit and will just mass revert all see also additions if no correction is done on your part.[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 17:20, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

:I shall.  This is why [[Template:Tol]] and [[Template:Ll]] were created.  I really don't see the virtue of all this manual maintenance.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 17:26, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

::Done.  All redlinks removed.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 19:46, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
:::Buaidh, the simple and ''polite'' way for you to have made all of these changes would have been to use '''''edit summaries'''''. Looking back on about 150 of your most recent edits there is ''not one edit summary''. Please do so for such changes in the future. Thank you. [[User:Cresix|Cresix]] ([[User talk:Cresix|talk]]) 19:56, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

== Navbox link template ==

Say, I'm trying to get a conversation going about [[Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2012_July_3#Change.3F | this idea]]. Would you please consider commenting? [[User:Butwhatdoiknow|Butwhatdoiknow]] ([[User talk:Butwhatdoiknow|talk]]) 20:48, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

== Grep applied to state outlines ==

Hi Buaidh,

I've been using [http://toolserver.org/~nikola/grep.php?pattern=&lang=en&wiki=wikipedia&ns=0 Grep], to find ways to gather links for countries.

I saw your recent edits to the state outlines, and started messing around with grep (on the WP toolserver) and its regex support on states to see if the searches for state-related articles could be refined to break the results down into meaningful groups of articles.

For example, the search string "Ohio" finds all articles with the word "Ohio" in the title.  That list is overwhelmed with town articles that end in ", Ohio".  So, to find departments of the Ohio state government, I tried the following search string:

<code>(Ohio(.*)Department)|(Department(.*)Ohio)</code>

The pipe symbol means "or".  The dot (period) means any character other than a carriage return or special character.  The "*" means "one or more of the preceding thing".

For the results of the above search, see

http://toolserver.org/~nikola/grep.php?pattern=%28Ohio%28.*%29Department%29%7C%28Department%28.*%29Ohio%29&lang=en&wiki=wikipedia&ns=0

The list of departments that came up for Colorado was even bigger.

Eventually, editors are going to want to build outlines for the subdivisions of other countries (someone has already started doing so for the states of India).  So I'm looking for ways to make this easier and faster.

[[User talk:The Transhumanist|<i>The Transhumanist</i>]] 22:25, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

:Thanks, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 18:51, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I admire your 'User in" Templates. I'm new to editing, is there anyway I may be able to utilize the format you created for those templates to create my own with multiple options. [[User:1dayFloripa|1dayFloripa]] ([[User talk:1dayFloripa|talk]]) 04:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
|}

== Solving the navbox as Easter egg problem ==

You may find [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Layout#See_also_navbox |this discussion]] of interest. [[User:Butwhatdoiknow|Butwhatdoiknow]] ([[User talk:Butwhatdoiknow|talk]]) 11:28, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

== How to update census tables? ==

Hi- Do you have any tricks on how to update the [[Table of United States Micropolitan Statistical Areas]]? The data is here-- [http://www.census.gov/popest/data/metro/totals/2011/tables/CBSA-EST2011-08.csv csv] or in [http://www.census.gov/popest/data/metro/totals/2011/tables/CBSA-EST2011-08.xls xls]. Is there a way to update the figures, I did the first 48 manually, and it looks like the ranking order has changed too. Just wondering if there is a shortcut to update the remaining 528 using AWB or something else? Thanks much, --[[User:Funandtrvl|Funandtrvl]] ([[User talk:Funandtrvl|talk]]) 15:43, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
:I'm not sure how this data was corrupted.  I'll send you instructions for batch updates.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 16:13, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
::Yes, thanks. I noticed yesterday that the figures didn't match up, it looked like the figures were comparing the 2000 census figures to the 2010 one, but even that didn't match all the way down the table. --[[User:Funandtrvl|Funandtrvl]] ([[User talk:Funandtrvl|talk]]) 16:24, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

== [[List of United States cities by population]] ==

Where is your source on Davenport? You <s>rudely</s> reverted my proper removal of unsourced material. <span style="background:silver;font-family:Kristen ITC;">[[User:Ctjf83|<span style="color:red;">C</span><span style="color:#ff6600;">T</span><span style="color:yellow;">J</span><span style="color:green;">F</span><span style="color:blue;">8</span><span style="color:#6600cc;">3</span>]]</span> 00:18, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
*I didn't revert anything in that article.  Please see {{cite web|url=http://www.census.gov/popest/data/cities/totals/2011/tables/SUB-EST2011-01.csv|title=Table 1. Annual Estimates of the Resident Population for Incorporated Places Over 50,000, Ranked by July 1, 2011 Population: April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2011|format=[[comma-separated values|CSV]]|work=2011 Population Estimates|publisher=[[United States Census Bureau]], Population Division|date=June 2012|accessdate=August 1, 2012}}.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 02:35, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
**Thank you, sorry I was snippy. Not sure why the census doesn't update [http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/19/1919000.html their stuff] <span style="background:silver;font-family:Kristen ITC;">[[User:Ctjf83 Alt|<span style="color: red">C</span><span style="color: #ff6600">T</span><span style="color: yellow">J</span><span style="color: green">F</span><span style="color: blue">8</span><span style="color: #6600cc">3</span>]]</span> 03:16, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
***It takes a while for the USCB to update the American FactFinder.  It is usually better to go directly to the [http://www.census.gov/popest/data/index.html USCB population estimates files].  The latest estimates are posted there first.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 03:32, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
****Ok, cool, thanks! <span style="background:silver;font-family:Kristen ITC;">[[User:CTF83! Alt|<span style="color: red">C</span><span style="color: #ff6600">T</span><span style="color: yellow">F</span><span style="color: green">8</span><span style="color: blue">3</span><span style="color: #6600cc">!</span>]]</span> 23:32, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

== Stop removing information about elevation of Denver ==

In [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Denver&diff=505334176&oldid=505333386 this edit] you hid relevant information about Denver's elevation. Please stop edit warring over this—the city is not exactly one mile high if there are federal geography databases saying it is two feet lower than one mile. If you continue edit warring you can be blocked. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 20:32, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
:The [[Denver|City and County of Denver]] has "officially" declared its elevation to be exactly 5280 feet above the [[geoid]].  It's all a matter of where you place the center of the city.  The City and County says it's the western steps of the state capitol.  They move the official elevation point up and down the steps so they can claim to be exactly one mile high despite survey and geoid changes.  It's all quite silly.  To make a big production about two feet of elevation seems beyond trivial, especially when the geoid fluctuates by five feet.  I happen to be a 64-year-old Professional Engineer working for the State of Colorado at the state capitol if you want a reference source.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 21:54, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

::So if the geoid is so imprecise, why did you introduce such a high degree of precision into the article [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Denver&diff=505330938&oldid=505329060 here] where you said the elevation was 1609.344 meters? That kind of millimetric precision is down to the level of 1/25th of an inch. The whole idea is that the official elevation is a mile but the real elevation is published variously. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 22:19, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

:::Exactly one mile is exactly 5280 feet is exactly 1609.344 meters.  Please tell me where the real elevation point is and I'll tell you what the real elevation is.  We are not dealing with buildings here; we are dealing with earth.  This conversation is so nerdy, not even I (nerd-extraordinary) can believe it.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 22:37, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

:::A geoid is precise, but the Earth is constantly changing.  The last conversion from the [[National Geodetic Vertical Datum of 1929]] ([[NGVD 29]]) to the [[North American Vertical Datum of 1988]] ([[NAVD 88]]) raised the elevation of the Colorado State Capitol by 917 millimeters or more than 3 feet.  The conversion raised the central Rocky Mountains by 5 to 7 feet (see the [[Mountain peaks of Colorado]].)  The earth is also becoming less oblate as the icecaps melt, and the North American plate is moving to the northwest.  While these changes are slow, they cannot be ignored.  I worked on a National Science Foundation project to monitor these changes.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 23:21, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

== Most Prominent Mountain Peaks of Alaska ==

I came across your Most Prominent Mountain Peaks of Alaska page and noted that Vulgarian Peak was incorrectly included.  See the talk section on that page for other corrections and supporting rationale.[[User:SCGruhn|SCGruhn]] ([[User talk:SCGruhn|talk]]) 07:50, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

== Attu Mountain? ==

On your isolation lists of peaks in Alaska and the United States, perhaps you might consider listing Attu Mountain.  Kiska Volcano, the nearest higher peak to Attu Mountain, is more than 204 miles away.[[User:SCGruhn|SCGruhn]] ([[User talk:SCGruhn|talk]]) 08:07, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

== "United States" statistical area article titles ==

Hi. I see that you've been busy moving pages for a variety of U.S. government terms, in order to create a set of consistently patterned article titles in Wikipedia. I'm referring to page moves like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_metropolitan_statistical_area&diff=prev&oldid=506985990 Metropolitan statistical area to United States metropolitan statistical area], [[Combined statistical area]] to [[United States combined statistical area]], and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Delaware_statistical_areas&diff=506978559&oldid=506978347 Delaware census statistical areas to Delaware statistical areas]. It looks to me like you created articles such as [[United States statistical area]] and [[United States primary statistical area]] several days ago, then renamed all the rest of these articles so the article names would conform with its name. 

I'm always pleased to discover that I'm not the only Wikipedia contributor with an interest in Census geography, but I have a big problem with these renames. Terms like "combined statistical area" are U.S. Bureau of the Census and/or Office of Management and Budget terms that are not normally prefixed with "United States".  Those "statistical areas" in the states are census areas, not state-defined areas (some of the states may use other "areas" for statistical purposes). Further, I don't see evidence that terms like "United States statistical area" and "United States primary statistical area" have any history of use outside of your Wikipedia articles (one of which even states "The OMB currently does not use the term "primary statistical area", but the term is useful..."). 

Was this renaming project discussed somewhere? Did you get consensus for it before you started it? Have you evaluated whether these new titles conform with [[WP:Article titles]]?

It looks to me like some [[WP:OR|original research]] was involved in generating these new names. IMO, they need to be moved back to the old versions. If there is reason to change some of the names, we should discuss them first. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 04:46, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

*The use of the prefix "United States" is simply to denote that these terms are only used in the United States and Puerto Rico.  This is the same use as the term "U.S. state" to denote a "state" of the United States.

:I originally created and named all of the articles using the term "census statistical area" under the mistaken impression that the [[United States Census Bureau]] was responsible for their definition.  Since the [[Office of Management and Budget]] now defines these areas, the term "census statistical area" is misleading.  Since I was the editor who made this error, it seemed appropriate that I should be the editor to fix the articles.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 14:48, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

::If the purpose of the inclusion of "United States" in those titles is purely to distinguish them from similar terms that might be used somewhere else, the inclusion of "United States" is not appropriate under [[WP:Article titles]] and [[WP:Disambiguation]]. If there are no other uses of a term, no disambiguation is needed in the title (as in [[Listed building]], which is a term specific to the UK). If a disambiguator is needed, it is applied in parentheses after the ambiguous name (as in [[Georgia (U.S. state)]]); it is not added in a fashion that implies it is part of the name. I think those articles should be restored to their old names...

::As for the "statistical areas" articles, the nomenclature seems like a problem, regardless of how it's done. (Who let the OMB create terminology, anyway?) I think a broad discussion (among multiple knowledgable participants) is needed to sort out the appropriate names -- including when terms like "Combined Statistical Area" and "Statistical Area" should treated as proper nouns (which is [http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/assets/bulletins/b10-02.pdf how the OMB uses them]). There are myriad U.S. statistical areas (lower-case for generic noun) that have nothing to do with either the OMB or the Census, and the Census uses a variety of geographic units for statistical purposes (such as [[census tract]]s and [[census-designated place]]s) that aren't OMB-defined Statistical Areas, so lower-case titles like "Delaware statistical area" and "census statistical area" seem potentially inappropriate for the narrower concept of the OMB-defined areas. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 16:20, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

:::The OMB defines these terms at the direction of the President.  In OMB Bulletin [http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/assets/bulletins/b10-02.pdf 10-02], the terms "Metropolitan Statistical Area", "Micropolitan Statistical Area", and "Combined Statistical Area" are capitalized on page 1, but used as common nouns on page 5.  "Metropolitan Division" is capitalized throughout the bulletin, but "statistical area" is always used as a common noun.  The term "core based statistical area" is not used in this bulletin.  The USCB uses all of these terms, most commonly as common nouns.  Given the U.S. government’s predilection for over-capitalization, I chose to use all of these terms as common nouns.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 17:02, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::It seems to me that "statistical area" is inherently a common noun, not a proper noun. Further, the terms "Metropolitan Statistical Area", "Micropolitan Statistical Area", and "Combined Statistical Area" are, in actuality, descriptors for urban agglomerations that happen to use the words "statistical area" in their names. It would be nice to find some other word for these units, so that "statistical area" doesn't have to be purloined to describe them. As you know, "Urban area" and "Urbanized area" also have been appropriated by US federal government for specific uses; the lower-case "[[metropolitan area]]" (without "statistical") has not been appropriated for federal use, but I don't think it deserves to be applied to micropolitan statistical areas.  (BTW, my question about who authorized OMB was tongue-in-cheek. In general, government plays fast and loose with language!) --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 18:46, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::I firmly believe that Wikipedia should conform with whatever terminology an official agency chooses to use unless it grossly misrepresents the actual use.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 18:52, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

{{od}}At [[WP:PRECISION]], the disambiguation instructions tell us to first select an unambiguous title such as [[Combined Statistical Area]], a term used by no other country and thus not requiring a move. If that term had not been unique, the next step would have been to use a natural disambiguation made up of another name, one found in reliable sources but not as widely used. I think that [[United States combined statistical area]], the target of Buaidh's move, is not such a natural dab—it is not used by anybody. Finally, PRECISION tells us to use parenthetical disambiguation if natural disambiguation is not obtainable. I think the choice here is between [[Combined Statistical Area]] and [[Combined Statistical Area (United States)]], not the current situation which fails PRECISION. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 19:49, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

*The original titles of these Wikipedia articles were:
::#[[United States statistical area]]
::#[[United States primary statistical area]]
::#[[Combined statistical area]]→[[United States combined statistical area]]
::#[[Core Based Statistical Area]]→[[United States core based statistical area]]
::#[[Metropolitan Statistical Area]]→[[United States metropolitan statistical area]]
::#[[United States Micropolitan Statistical Area]]→[[United States micropolitan statistical area]]
:Obviously, we need consistent titles for these articles.  Perhaps:
::#[[United States statistical area]]→[[Statistical area]]
::#[[United States primary statistical area]]→[[Primary statistical area]]
::#[[Combined statistical area]]→[[United States combined statistical area]]→[[Combined statistical area]]
::#[[Core Based Statistical Area]]→[[United States core based statistical area]]→[[Core based statistical area]]
::#[[Metropolitan Statistical Area]]→[[United States metropolitan statistical area]]→[[Metropolitan statistical area]]
::#[[United States Micropolitan Statistical Area]]→[[United States micropolitan statistical area]]→[[Micropolitan statistical area]]
:[[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 20:15, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

:::*I think Binksternet probably has the correct interpretation regarding Core Based, Metropolitan, Micropolitan, and Combined. The "statistical areas" and "primary statistical areas" topics are more problematic, because it's not as clear that these can be treated as proper nouns. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 21:12, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
::::*[[Statistical area]] and [[primary statistical area]] are clearly common nouns.  The other four terms are used both as proper nouns and common nouns.  I don't see any advantage to making them proper nouns.  Do you?  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 21:28, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::*Those terms look like common nouns, but the articles treat them as if they were proper nouns, as the scope of the articles is restricted to the use of these terms in the OMB circular. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 17:41, 14 August 2012 (UTC)	
::::::*Further to the above, the U.S. Census Bureau uses the common noun "statistical area" very broadly. To see what I mean, click on the "statistical areas" tab on [http://www.census.gov/acs/www/data_documentation/geography/ this page]. I ran a Google search to look for non-census, non-OMB uses of the term. Possibly because of my U.S. location and search history, Google isn't giving me any non-U.S. uses, but I did find [http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=fishingCommercialByFishery.statmaps Alaska Groundfish and Shellfish Statistical Area Charts] and city of Baltimore [http://www.bniajfi.org/neighborhood_data/neighborhood_statistical_area_nsa_profiles neighborhood statistical areas] (probably census-based). --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 17:51, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Are there any objections to the following titles?
:#[[United States statistical area]]→[[Statistical area]]
:#[[United States primary statistical area]]→[[Primary statistical area]]
:#[[Combined statistical area]]→[[United States combined statistical area]]→[[Combined Statistical Area]]
:#[[Core Based Statistical Area]]→[[United States core based statistical area]]→[[Core Based Statistical Area]]
:#[[Metropolitan Statistical Area]]→[[United States metropolitan statistical area]]→[[Metropolitan Statistical Area]]
:#[[United States Micropolitan Statistical Area]]→[[United States micropolitan statistical area]]→[[Micropolitan Statistical Area]]
If not, I shall propose the above moves.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 17:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I fully support numbers 3 through 6 (and I would be happy to execute the moves if we think they are noncontroversial), but the first two are more problematic. Both the names of those articles and the scopes of those articles are open to discussion. My current thought is that those two terms should be treated as proper nouns (Statistical Area and Primary Statistical Area), since the usage is narrowly restricted to the OMB Circular's definitions. Then [[statistical area]] could become a disambiguation-like page to assist with sorting out other terms such as [[Oklahoma Tribal Statistical Area]] and the various areas like census tracts and CDPs. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 17:57, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
This expands our move list a bit:
:#[[United States statistical area]]→[[Statistical Area]]
:#[[United States primary statistical area]]→[[Primary Statistical Area]]
:#[[United States combined statistical area]]→[[Combined Statistical Area]]
:#[[United States core based statistical area]]→[[Core Based Statistical Area]]
:#[[United States metropolitan statistical area]]→[[Metropolitan Statistical Area]]
:#[[United States micropolitan statistical area]]→[[Micropolitan Statistical Area]]
:#[[List of United States primary statistical areas]]→[[List of United States Primary Statistical Areas]]
:#[[List of United States combined statistical areas]]→[[List of United States Combined Statistical Areas]]
:#[[List of United States core based statistical areas]]→[[List of United States Core Based Statistical Areas]]
:#[[List of United States metropolitan statistical areas]]→[[List of United States Metropolitan Statistical Areas]]
:#[[List of United States micropolitan statistical areas]]→[[List of United States Micropolitan Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Alabama statistical areas]]→[[Alabama Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Alaska statistical areas]]→[[Alaska Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Arizona statistical areas]]→[[Arizona Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Arkansas statistical areas]]→[[Arkansas Statistical Areas]]
:#[[California statistical areas]]→[[California Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Colorado statistical areas]]→[[Colorado Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Connecticut statistical areas]]→[[Connecticut Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Delaware statistical areas]]→[[Delaware Statistical Areas]]
:#[[District of Columbia statistical areas]]→[[District of Columbia Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Florida statistical areas]]→[[Florida Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Georgia statistical areas]]→[[Georgia Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Hawaii statistical areas]]→[[Hawaii Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Idaho statistical areas]]→[[Idaho Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Illinois statistical areas]]→[[Illinois Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Indiana statistical areas]]→[[Indiana Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Iowa statistical areas]]→[[Iowa Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Kansas statistical areas]]→[[Kansas Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Kentucky statistical areas]]→[[Kentucky Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Louisiana statistical areas]]→[[Louisiana Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Maine statistical areas]]→[[Maine Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Maryland statistical areas]]→[[Maryland Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Massachusetts statistical areas]]→[[Massachusetts Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Michigan statistical areas]]→[[Michigan Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Minnesota statistical areas]]→[[Minnesota Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Mississippi statistical areas]]→[[Mississippi Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Missouri statistical areas]]→[[Missouri Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Montana statistical areas]]→[[Montana Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Nebraska statistical areas]]→[[Nebraska Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Nevada statistical areas]]→[[Nevada Statistical Areas]]
:#[[New Hampshire statistical areas]]→[[New Hampshire Statistical Areas]]
:#[[New Jersey statistical areas]]→[[New Jersey Statistical Areas]]
:#[[New Mexico statistical areas]]→[[New Mexico Statistical Areas]]
:#[[New York statistical areas]]→[[New York Statistical Areas]]
:#[[North Carolina statistical areas]]→[[North Carolina Statistical Areas]]
:#[[North Dakota statistical areas]]→[[North Dakota Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Ohio statistical areas]]→[[Ohio Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Oklahoma statistical areas]]→[[Oklahoma Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Oregon statistical areas]]→[[Oregon Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Pennsylvania statistical areas]]→[[Pennsylvania Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Rhode Island statistical areas]]→[[Rhode Island Statistical Areas]]
:#[[South Carolina statistical areas]]→[[South Carolina Statistical Areas]]
:#[[South Dakota statistical areas]]→[[South Dakota Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Tennessee statistical areas]]→[[Tennessee Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Texas statistical areas]]→[[Texas Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Utah statistical areas]]→[[Utah Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Vermont statistical areas]]→[[Vermont Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Virginia statistical areas]]→[[Virginia Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Washington statistical areas]]→[[Washington Statistical Areas]]
:#[[West Virginia statistical areas]]→[[West Virginia Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Wisconsin statistical areas]]→[[Wisconsin Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Wyoming statistical areas]]→[[Wyoming Statistical Areas]]
:#[[Puerto Rico statistical areas]]→[[Puerto Rico Statistical Areas]]
Alternatively, we could do [[List of Metropolitan Statistical Areas of the United States]] and [[List of Statistical Areas of Alabama]].  Any comments?  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 18:24, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
::*Please, let's stick to the first six for now. The others involve additional issues. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 19:15, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
:::*The other titles all depend on the first six and have implications for the first six titles.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 19:24, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
::::*Please see [[Talk:Statistical area#Requested move]].  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 17:52, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

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== Barnstar! ==

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"

|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Barnstar-Userbox.png|100px]]|[[File:Barnstar-Userbox.png|100px]]}}

|rowspan="2" |

|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Userbox Barnstar'''

|-

|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I admire your initiative in fixing my mess and creating all those wonderful documentation pages. In recognition for your work, I present this pathetic excuse for a Userbox barnstar. Good work! [[User:Marcus Qwertyus|Marcus Qwertyus]] ([[User talk:Marcus Qwertyus|talk]]) 03:10, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

|}

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== Geography of Canada  ==

Do you have any references for the info added to [[Geography of Canada ]] - the info is interesting but does not have any sources. Would like to add it back but having trouble finding sources.[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]])
:The references are in the linked articles.  We may wish to create a new article entitled [[Extreme points of Canada]] (similar to the article [[Extreme points of the United States]]) to unclutter this article.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 17:16, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::We cant do things like that - cant assume that the info will not change in the other article or like with [[Baffin Island] there is no ref for that info on the main page... Reference must be provided were the statement it at. Is there somewhere other then referring to another Wikipedia page for this info?[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 17:27, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
:::I'm not sure why you posted this note 12 minutes after you deleted the sections.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 20:19, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::::Acknowledgement of the concerns of policy raised  and proper  references is the response I would like a replied to.[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 20:48, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::So acknowledged.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 20:53, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::::::This is an encyclopedia, so remember to include  references listing websites, newspapers, articles, books and other sources you have used to write or expand articles. New articles and statements added to existing articles may be deleted if [[Wikipedia:Verification methods|unreferenced or referenced poorly]]. See: [[Wikipedia:Citing sources]] and [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]] for more information. -  If you cant provide any refs at all... think it may be best to remove all the info added about this topic. Understand my meaning? Need refs or removal and/or deletion may affect all these articles.[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 21:03, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::::The [[Extreme points of Canada]] is a list, and as such, the list links back to the relevant articles for most of its references.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 21:06, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
*No not at all - Our policy on that  "[[WP:Source list|Lists, whether they are embedded lists or stand-alone lists, are encyclopedic content as are paragraphs and articles, and '''they are equally subject to Wikipedia's content policies such as Verifiability''']]".[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 21:10, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::Verifiability of lists is determined by their source articles.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 21:11, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::Link above takes you to a statement that say "each item to be included on the list is adequately referenced and that the page on which the list appears" - Your making ME think deletion may be best for all these articles -  - I am now assuming that all these have simply been piled together from what you have seen here on Wiki. Do you have any referances for any of the info on these pages at all? Pls tell me your reading a book or a website that has these listed.[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 21:15, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Are you sure you are Canadian?  Every one of the points listed is verified in the Wikipedia linked articles which in turn have references from many sources including the Government of Canada.  The only point that is not linked is Boundary Peak 187 which cites a report of the [[International Boundary Commission]].  I will add additional references as time allows.  Do you doubt the validity of any of these points, or are you just trying to make a point?  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 21:34, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::::Can you transfer the references to the articles your making - as per our policy?[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 22:53, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::Actually i see that most are not referenced in the articles as your saying - like [[Kaffeklubben Island]]. So I will look see if I can find refs if not .....[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 22:59, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::::::[[Kaffeklubben Island]] is in Greenland, not Canada.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 23:03, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::::::::So I take it by that reply or lack there of -  you have no refs for anything you have been doing is this correct? As I have said will try to find refs ... if not will remove unsourceable material etc. Will be looking at [http://www.google.ca/search?q=georaphy+of+the+Americans&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=abT&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=geography+of+the+Americans&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=bks&source=og&sa=N&tab=wp&ei=sn5KUKfZCuTxygGMwoDwCg&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=10003c60ebcbe7a2&biw=1173&bih=793 the following books]. Perhaps you can look to![[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 23:11, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::I have references up my !@&%$#$&!  Take a look at [[Mountain peaks of North America]] for an example.  This is not exactly a top priority for me, but I'll see what I can get you.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 01:43, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::::Well that is one of the oddest things I have ever seen - you have the refs - but cant take the time to use them when making new pages...  Ok I will take the time to fix the articles over the next week or so. Will do [[Extreme points of the Americas]] first since the project is taking about its deletion.[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 16:08, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::::::I created an inline version of [[Template:Cmt]] named [[Template:Imt]] so that data from summit tables can be reused in summit lists.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 00:01, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

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== Terribly short notice: [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Takes America/Boulder, Colorado|Boulder WLM on 15 September]] ==

Apologies for getting this out so late, but this is all [[User:Pharos|Pharos]]' fault. Please blame everything on Pharos.

That said, this message is just to let you know that we're having a photo hunt for [http://wikilovesmonuments.us/ Wiki Loves Monuments] at 11:00 in the morning of Saturday the 15th [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Takes America/Boulder, Colorado|in Boulder]], probably somewhere around CU, though the exact location hasn't yet been decided. Since you have previously attended or expressed interest in other meetups in the area, hopefully you might be able to come. 

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==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Wikipedia:US states and territories/map]]==
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{{Quote box|quote=<p>If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read [[WP:Your first article|the guide to writing your first article]].</p><p>You may want to consider using the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]] to help you create articles.</p>|width=20%|align=right}}
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If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit '''[[Wikipedia talk:US states and territories/map|the page's talk page directly]]''' to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. If the page is deleted, you can contact [[:Category:Wikipedia administrators who will provide copies of deleted articles|one of these administrators]] to request that the administrator [[Wikipedia:Userfication#Userfication of deleted content|userfy]] the page or email a copy to you. <!-- Template:Db-repost-notice --> <!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> <small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 11:36, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Template:US states and territories]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Template:US states and territories'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 September 12#Template:US states and territories|the redirect discussion]] (if you have not already done so). <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> <small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 15:11, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
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[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:US state and territory indexes]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:US state and territory indexes|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> <small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 19:41, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|Nomination for deletion]] of [[Template:US state and territory outlines]] ==
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== data source for gross state domestic product ==

Hi there! Could you let me know about the data source for the gross state domestic product of Daman and Diu for 2005 to be $156 million? Thanks a lot!  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Yuanrandong|Yuanrandong]] ([[User talk:Yuanrandong|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Yuanrandong|contribs]]) 04:21, 21 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening COTM  ==

{| align=center class="current" style="background:lightgreen; border: 1px solid #C0C090; padding: 6px; margin-bottom: 3px; border-radius: 15px; text-align:left; font-size: 95%; width: auto;"

|style="text-align: center;" | {{resize|1.2em|The current monthly<br> '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM|WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening collaborations]]''' are:}}<br>
<sup></sup><sup></sup>

[[File:Pieskowa Skała ogród zamkowy.jpg|left|border|160px]]
<div style="font-size:100%; line-height: 1.7em;">
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Christmas tree cultivation]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Greenhouse]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Hedge maze]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Phytotoxicity]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Subsoil]]'''</big><br>
</div>


{{center|The next collaborations will be posted on November 1, 2012.<br>
To propose future collaborations, please [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM|contribute here!]]}}
<div style="float:right">
<small>[[Template:Horticulture and Gardening Project COTM|V]]{{•}} [[Template talk:Horticulture and Gardening Project COTM|T]]</small></div>
|}
From: <small><span style="font-family:arial;">[[User:Northamerica1000|Northamerica1000]]<sup>[[User_talk:Northamerica1000|(talk)]]</sup></span></small> 03:07, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

== Template:Protected Areas of Colorado and Blanca Wetlands ==

I just started [[Blanca Wetlands]], which is clearly a Protected Area of Colorado, but was not sure where to fit it into [[:template:Protected Areas of Colorado]].  It is operated by the [[Bureau of Land Management]], so seems Federal rather than State.  I put it under National Conservation Areas, which the Bureau of Land Management runs, but I suspect it does not belong there.  I saw you have done quite a lot of edits to the template.  Do you have any view on where it should go?  Thanks, [[User:Aymatth2|Aymatth2]] ([[User talk:Aymatth2|talk]]) 23:58, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
:There are 66 BLM ACECs in the [[Colorado|State of Colorado]].  See the [http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/BLM_Programs/land_use_planning/acec.html Colorado ACECs].  ACECs are not [[National Conservation Area]]s.  ACECs are selected for special attention, but are not protected areas in the traditional sense.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 00:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
::This is a whole new world for me.  I backed into the subject from redlinks in redlinks. It seemed interesting and the BLM said it was important, but of course they would.  Just one of 66? I took it out of the template - I had no idea there were so many. Thanks,  [[User:Aymatth2|Aymatth2]] ([[User talk:Aymatth2|talk]]) 01:13, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
:::The fact that there are 66 ACECs does not mean that they are not important. Many of these ACECs are also [[Colorado Natural Area]]s.  I'll create a list of the 66 Colorado ACECs.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 01:18, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|Nomination for deletion]] of [[Template:Cwb]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:Cwb]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:Cwb|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 10:45, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

== Colorado Bibliography ==

Thanks for starting Colorado Bibliography. I have added to, trying to use the format already started. I see some Cite' templates and some without. I tried to keep the alpha in order. Maybe together we could collaborate about the rest of the style and further organization of material. This is just a beginning of my biblios to add. I have more ready to post. Do you have any comments or suggestions before I go too far which would need to be changed or styled differently? If not, I shall continue with what I have. Maybe you would like to review my stuff at [[User:Draconrex/Bibliography of Gunnison Country]]. Feel free to utilize this content as you would your own.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 15:35, 21 October 2012 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Pls forgive me failing to sign the post. [[User:Draconrex|Draconrex]] ([[User talk:Draconrex|talk]]) 20:11, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

== WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening COTM  ==
{| align=center class="current" style="background:lightgreen; border: 1px solid #C0C090; padding: 6px; margin-bottom: 3px; border-radius: 15px; text-align:left; font-size: 95%; width: auto;"

|style="text-align: center;" | {{resize|1.2em|The current monthly<br> '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM|WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening collaborations]]''' are:}}<br>
<sup></sup><sup></sup>

[[File:Pieskowa Skała ogród zamkowy.jpg|left|border|160px]]
<div style="font-size:100%; line-height: 1.7em;">
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Cold frame]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Fodder]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Gardening in Alaska]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[National Organic Program]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Saint Petersburg Botanical Garden]]'''</big><br>
</div>

{{center|The next collaborations will be posted on December 1, 2012.<br>
To propose future collaborations, please '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM|contribute here!]]'''}}
<div style="float:right">
<small>[[Template:Horticulture and Gardening Project COTM|V]]{{•}} [[Template talk:Horticulture and Gardening Project COTM|T]]</small></div>
|}
From: <small><span style="font-family:arial;">[[User:Northamerica1000|Northamerica1000]]<sup>[[User_talk:Northamerica1000|(talk)]]</sup></span></small> 01:57, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for November 6==

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==Disambiguation link notification for November 14==

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==Disambiguation link notification for November 21==

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:[[List of mountain passes]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_mountain_passes|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_mountain_passes|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[The Saddleback]]

:[[List of passes of the Rocky Mountains]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_passes_of_the_Rocky_Mountains|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_passes_of_the_Rocky_Mountains|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Great Northern Railroad]]

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== [[Wikipedia:Meetup/SeattleWLL/2012|Wikipedia Loves Libraries Seattle]] ==

{| style="background:#ffc; border:1px solid #fc0; margin:0.5em; padding:0.5em;border-radius: 8px;"
|-
! colspan="2" style="font-size: 110%;" | Decemmber 8 - Wikipedia Loves Libraries Seattle  - ''You're invited'' <br />
|-
| <div style="background: #fff;margin-right: 10px;">[[File:Seattle Public Library.jpg|thumb|left|Seattle Public Library]]</div>
| style="text-align: left;" | 
*'''Date''' Saturday, December 8, 2012 
*'''Time''' 10 a.m. – 3 p.m.
*'''Location''' [http://www.spl.org/ Seattle Public Library] Meeting Room 1 on Level 4, Central Library,  1000 4th Avenue, Seattle WA, 98104
*'''Event''' An ''editathon'' on Seattle-related Wikipedia articles with Wikipedia tutorials and Librarian assistance on hand.
*'''Hashtag''' #wikiloveslib or #glamwiki.
*'''Registration''' [http://wll-seattle.eventbrite.com http://wll-seattle.eventbrite.com] or use [[Wikipedia:Meetup/SeattleWLL/2012#Sign-up|on-wiki regsistration]].
Yours, [[User:Maximilianklein|Maximilianklein]] ([[User talk:Maximilianklein|talk]]) 03:53, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
|}
<!-- EdwardsBot 0409 -->

== WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening COTM  ==

{| align=center class="current" style="background:lightgreen; border: 1px solid #C0C090; padding: 6px; margin-bottom: 3px; border-radius: 15px; text-align:left; font-size: 95%; width: 500px;"

|style="text-align: center;" | {{resize|1.2em|The current monthly<br> '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM|WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening collaborations]]''' are:}}<br>
<sup></sup><sup></sup>

[[File:Pieskowa Skała ogród zamkowy.jpg|left|border|160px]]
<div style="font-size:100%; line-height: 1.1em;">
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Agribusiness]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Bolting (horticulture)]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Garden city movement]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Garden design]]'''</big>
:::::::::*<big>'''[[Grex (horticulture)]]'''</big><br>
</div>


{{center|The next collaborations will be posted on January 1, 2013.<br>
To propose future collaborations, please '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening/COTM|contribute here!]]'''}}
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|}
From: <small><span style="font-family:arial;">[[User:Northamerica1000|Northamerica1000]]<sup>[[User_talk:Northamerica1000|(talk)]]</sup></span></small> 15:45, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

== List of U.S. state abbreviations ==

Thanks for your recent modifications to [[List of U.S. state abbreviations]].  There are still a few oddities with with the font changes between columns, but overall, it is a great improvement.  Thanks! [[User:YBG|YBG]] ([[User talk:YBG|talk]]) 06:37, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for December 6==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation pages]]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

:[[List of U.S. state abbreviations]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_U.S._state_abbreviations|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_U.S._state_abbreviations|fix with Dab solver]])
::added links pointing to [[MP]], [[AS]], [[GU]], [[PR]], [[PW]], [[FM]], [[VI]], [[MH]] and [[UM]]

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== American flag and the Great Seal of the United States ==

Both are symbols of the federal government, but would not be appropriate lead images on articles about the states. Since the US has a federal system of government, things like [[U.S. state dogs]] and the like are about functions of the states that have no connection to the federal government. I'd suggest that you re-evaluate what list articles get that box and probably remove it from most of them.

Also, the {{tl|main}} tag isn't really needed at the top of an article, especially if there is already a link to the topic in the lead. That tag is usually used under a section header when the section summarizes another article. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<span style="color:white;">Imzadi&nbsp;1979</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Imzadi1979|<span style="color:white;"><big>→</big></span>]]'''</span>  19:15, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
:I concur.  Please see [[Template:Ibox-US]].  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 20:30, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
::Except that it's still not appropriate to use the Great Seal of the United States and the Flag of the United States in articles about the states themselves. The states are co-sovereign with the federal government, and placing the federal symbols on those lists makes a false implication that the national government has some function over, for example, setting [[Lists of United States state insignia|state insignia]] or selecting [[Lists of U.S. state animals |state animals]]. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<span style="color:white;">Imzadi&nbsp;1979</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Imzadi1979|<span style="color:white;"><big>→</big></span>]]'''</span>  22:26, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
:::I disagree completely.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 22:30, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for December 13==

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:[[List of U.S. state historical societies and museums]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_U.S._state_historical_societies_and_museums|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_U.S._state_historical_societies_and_museums|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Nevada State Museum]]

:[[List of counties by U.S. state]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_counties_by_U.S._state|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_counties_by_U.S._state|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Georgetown, Georgia]]

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== Y2K is not a word, it's an abbreviation ==

The K is a stand-in for thousand as in KM, KG or KW. Without a discussion, your move and replacing of the capital is inappropriate. I have reverted your changes and moved the article back. Feel free to discuss at the article rather than the disambiguation page. --[[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 17:13, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
:A capital K is not a symbol for 1000, it is the symbol for [[kelvin]].  A lower-case k is the symbol for 1000 as in [[km]], [[kg]], or [[kW]].  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 17:22, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

==Talkback==
{{talkback|Walter Görlitz|Y2K is not a word, it's an abbreviation|ts=18:40, 18 December 2012 (UTC)}}
[[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 18:40, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

==Talkback==
{{talkback|Walter Görlitz|Y2K is not a word, it's an abbreviation|ts=04:10, 19 December 2012 (UTC)}}
[[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 04:10, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

== December 2012 ==
[[Image:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]]. I noticed that you made a comment on the page [[:User talk:Walter Görlitz]] that didn't seem very [[Wikipedia:Civility|civil]], so it has been removed. Wikipedia needs people like you and me to collaborate, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on [[User_talk:Walter Görlitz|my talk page]]. Thank you. <!-- Template:uw-npa1 --> ''https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Walter_G%C3%B6rlitz&diff=529065513&oldid=529049686 Stating that I "but you don't seem have much of a grasp of modern English useage". correct "usage" would be "don't seem '''to'''". If you're going to insult an editor after talking down to them, you might want to check your grammar and spelling. I trust that we're done.'' [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 04:21, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for December 21==

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==Help==
Hi, i added a template for Mauritius [[Template:NBbox/doc|here]], but i can't understand why it is link to the Mexico notice board instead of Mauritius, could you help please.[[User:Kingroyos|Kingroyos]] ([[User talk:Kingroyos|talk]]) 21:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
{{NBbox|Mauritius}}
:<code><nowiki>{{NBbox|Mauritius}}</nowiki></code> should work now.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 00:40, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
{{clear}}
:Thanks.[[User:Kingroyos|Kingroyos]] ([[User talk:Kingroyos|talk]]) 14:56, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

{{annual archive}}