Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2024/December

Reconstruction:Proto-South Dravidian/cinkiwēr

The redirect doesn't make sense at all, and is clearly vandalism by a currently blocked user. However, even though I'm not a Dravidianist, I question the reconstruction itself: Neither Reconstruction:Proto-Dravidian/cinkiwēr nor Reconstruction:Proto-South Dravidian/cinkiwēr seems to be a plausible reconstruction, given that Old Tamil 𑀇𑀜𑁆𑀘𑀺𑀯𑁂𑀭𑁆 (iñcivēr) seems to be a compound inside Old Tamil, and 𑀇𑀜𑁆𑀘𑀺 (iñci) a loanword (even if Old Tamil is apparently not the direct source of Sauraseni Prakrit 𑀲𑀺𑀁𑀕𑀺𑀯𑁂𑀭 (siṃgivera)). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

egel

According to the Proto-Germanic pages these are not related. tbf the derivation of *egalaz is phonologically uncertain. Suryaratha03 (talk) 23:17, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a source, but the page for 'egel' has a more recent source which doesn't seem so sure about the connection. Kluge says the origin of Egel is unclear. Exarchus (talk) 12:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proto-Indo-European *h₁eǵʰis says: "Related to *h₂éngʷʰis and *h₁ógʷʰis." Seems debatable/dubious... Exarchus (talk) 12:39, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Filos

Filos, a protist, is the type genus of the family Filidae. I do not have access to the to the full original publication to know its etymology. Can you read this paper: E. Kim, E. et al? Gerardgiraud (talk) 09:53, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They write:

Etymology: Filos (m.), friend, alludes to its epibiontic relationship with Apoikia; agilis, agile, refers to its swimming motion.

This is a slightly unusual Romanization of Ancient Greek φίλος (phílos). --Lambiam 08:24, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Korkyra

w:Korkyra_(mythology) tells us she was the daughter of Asopos and Metope. I analyze this as Ancient Greek κόρη (kórē, “girl, maiden”) + Ancient Greek κῡρῐ́ᾱ (kūrĭ́ā, “lady”), thus young lady. 24.108.0.44 13:21, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You should obviously realise that the mythology can be invented after the island has been named. But the original name is apparently Κέρκυρα, which Frisk (Griechisches etymologisches Wörterbuch) relates to the Illyric demonym Κέρκυρες, but he also mentions a possible link to Latin quercus (“oak”). Exarchus (talk) 14:41, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to Wikipedia's Corfu article the word already occurs in Mycenaean Greek as ko-ro-ku-ra-i-jo. Exarchus (talk) 15:03, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Illyrian reflex of Quercus would probably be similar to Lithuanian perkūnas, so Κέρκυρες would probably be borrowed from this toponym; w:Corfu#Name tells us that Kerkyra is the Doric variant of Korkyra. And ko-ro-ku-ra-i-jo sounds very much like a Mycenean version of κόρη-κῡρῐ́ᾱ. 24.108.0.44 22:27, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The source for the link to Latin 'quercus' is this article. The explanation given of the first 'k' is assimilation to second 'k' (p.84). But this is simply one hypothesis and Chantraine calls it 'unprovable'. Exarchus (talk) 23:55, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whether Mycenaean ko-ro-ku-ra-i-jo has anything to do with the island is unclear according to 'The Mycenaean Greek Vocabulary', they also mention a possible connection to γόργυρα or Κροκύλεια. (But maybe those hypotheses are outdated?) The Mycenaean version of κόρη (kórē) is 𐀒𐀷 (ko-wa /⁠kórwā⁠/), so no, it doesn't look like a version of κόρη-κῡρῐ́ᾱ in any case. Exarchus (talk) 09:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Few terms in the Lex Frisionum

I've been making a small list of Germanic terms found in the Latin-language Lex Frisionum compiled during the reign of Charlemagne. A few of these I am not sure how to explain, namely

forresni (“instigation”) (apparently containing for-)
herthamon (“pericardium”) (containing heart)
mithridri (“midriff”) (containing mid-)
screona (“weaver’s hut”)
sipido (“type of scar”)
smelo (“upper phalanx of the thumb”)
lito (“serf”)
fresum (“a type of Frisian fabric”).

ᛙᛆᚱᛐᛁᚿᛌᛆᛌ ᛭ Proto-Norsing ᛭ Ask me anything 15:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I might hazard a guess that -resni would include the root res- as in English rise and -ni as in the Scandinavian inchoative/ causative verb ending -na. Wakuran (talk) 19:03, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That, or forresni "treason" is a derivative of Old Frisian forrēda (“to betray”), the -resni part being distantly related to Old English rǣs (“advice”)...Leasnam (talk) 20:18, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The others:
- hertehama = herte + *hama "garment, covering";
- mithridri = mid + hrithere "diaphragm";
- screona = Old Frisian skirma (“shelter”) ? or skrīn (“shrine, chest, coffer”) ?;
- sipido = Old Frisian sipda, spido, septa, septha (“scar”), perhaps from *saipiþu < *saipu "amber, salve", related to Old English sāp (“amber, resin, pomade”) ?;
- smelo = ? perhaps from smel "small" ?
- lito = ? perhaps from lēt "half-free";
- fresum = from Frēs "Frisian", or perhaps related to frēsle "curl, nap";
Leasnam (talk) 22:49, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Certain:

herthamon ‘pericardium’ < *hertô (“heart”) + *hamô (“wrapping”).
lito ‘serf’ < *lētaz (“id.”). Note that ⟨i⟩ represented both [i] and [e] in Late Latin spelling.

Uncertain:

screona ‘weaver's hut’ < *skūrō (“shack”, see descendants).
smelo ‘upper phalanx of the thumb’ < *smalaz (“small”). Cf. Old Frisian smel (“small”) for the stressed vowel.

Nicodene (talk) 22:16, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

hurry up and wait

Is this military? TDHoward (talk) 23:19, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The US Armed Forces appear to be the origin. A former US Army officer (1988–2004) writes at Quora:^[1]

That is exactly the phrase I recall from my days in the military when there was a task that had to be done at a certain time or a place. Unless it was a true emergency, it was almost never tackled right away.

“Hurry up and wait” is military lingo.

For example, if a group of soldiers were awaiting orders from above to do just about anything, they’d be told that orders were pending and to await those orders.

Another Quora post, from a USMC nco (Force Recon-Vietnam):^[2]

The phrase, Hurry up and wait is common in all the branches. It’s almost a Mantra.

--Lambiam 08:49, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When I was a child, I heard it from my father (who was in the US Army during WWII) as a characterization of how time was spent, especially during complex operations involving multiple units. DCDuring (talk) 13:11, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

imut

I think the lack of words resembling 'imut' in languages such as Malay and Javanese, added with the fact that 'imut' in Sundanese means 'to smile' (smiling does make someone look cute) would make it a Sundanese-derived Indonesian term. Udaradingin (talk) 12:21, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

つんつん

ぽつんつんぼ 2600:387:B:3:0:0:0:49 14:27, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Latin involō

"to attack, seize, take possession of, carry off" Might this sense not be from such a compound as in- +‎ vola +‎ -ō (to take in one's hand, grasp) ? If we separate the "to attack" meaning it is semantically plausible, even more so than the one we used thus far (to fly/rush in -> invade -> pillage -> seize ?). Saumache (talk) 21:56, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]