Talk:Murder of the Quinn brothers

Merge proposal (copied from Jason Quinn talk page

This article is virtually identical to that of the two other brothers, therefore they should all be merged into Quinn brothers. This should not interfere with categories or anything. --Helenalex (talk) 22:48, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. No disrespect to the unfortunate souls who were victims of this Loyalist atrocity, but I'm not sure there is a good reason that each of the brothers should have their own article... notability and all that. --Setanta747 (talk) 18:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Gilmour or Gilmore

Is it Garfield Gilmour or Gilmore? The article spells his name both ways. There needs to be consistency.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:03, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

image

Can we not name the boys in the image?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:59, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Done as per this source [1] Keresaspa (talk) 21:09, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

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Requested move 9 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved to Murder of the Quinn brothers. Consensus to use the "Murder of" version of the title found in the comments after being relisted. (non-admin closure) cyberdog958^Talk 03:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

---

Quinn brothers' killings → Murder of the Quinn brothers – Garfield Gilmour was convicted of murder, therefore the page should be titled as murder, not killing. While his conviction was downgraded to manslaughter, it was not because the crime was not deemed to be murder; rather it was because he had only driven the killers to the scene, and the court found that he himself did not have murderous intent, and was not aware that the others did. However, the actual bombers were found to have acted with murderous intent (by using a larger than usual bomb that would be expected to cause death or grievous bodily harm), therefore the crime should be considered a murder.--Tulzscha (talk) 11:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Frost 01:38, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. OP does not cite sources to establish a WP:COMMONNAME. WP:DEATHS recommends "Killing of" in the case of a manslaughter conviction. No objection to Killings of Jason, Mark, and Richard Quinn, which follows our usual pattern. 162 etc. (talk) 16:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
  • On the subject of WP:COMMONNAME, every source I can find refers to the deaths as murder:
    • The deaths of the Quinn children: The UVF murder which changed Northern Ireland, Belfast Telegraph
    • Man whose body pulled from river linked to Quinn brothers' murder, The Irish News
    • 1998: Children die in Drumcree protests, BBC News (refers to "brothers murdered in a loyalist arson attack")
    • Murdered Quinn brothers to be honoured in memorial quilt to be dedicated to 100 souls lost to terrorism in Northern Ireland, Belfast Live
    • The murders that shocked Northern Ireland, BBC News
    • Raymond Parke, UVF suspect in brutal murder of Quinn boys, is found drowned, Belfast Telegraph
    • Loyalist tried to 'persuade' writer that petrol bomb fire which killed Quinn brothers started inside home, Sunday World (refers to the deaths as "sectarian murders of three children")
    • Drumcree linked murder of three Quinn children “changed the mood”, papers show, Belfast Live
    • Balloons released to mark 25th anniversary of murders of Quinn brothers Balloons released to mark anniversary of murders of twin brothers, Irish News

• • • In summary it appears clear that this is the WP:COMMONNAME, as every available source I came across refers to the murder of the Quinn brothers, not the killing or manslaughter.--Tulzscha (talk) 17:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

    Yes, this is the sort of verifiable information that should have been presented in the first place. I've struck my !vote. 162 etc. (talk) 20:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Ireland, WikiProject Biography, WikiProject Northern Ireland, and WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography have been notified of this discussion. Feeglgeef (talk) 19:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Move to Killing of the Quinn brothers. I agree with the argument above by 162 but the format we have now is bad. When there's more than 2 names this is the clearest grouping. PARAKANYAA (talk) 19:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Support, per nom. Xx78900 (talk) 11:26, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: For clarity on Killing of the Quinn brothers or Murder of the Quinn brothers Frost 01:38, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Support "murder of" due to compelling evidence that this is the WP:COMMONNAME. The rare legal circumstances of this case justify a departure from usual titling policy IMO. TRCRF22 (talk) 19:37, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. "Murder of" is the standard formulation. The current title sounds like an article on killings committed by Quinn brothers. BD2412 T 01:44, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.