Talk:Killing of Fuad Shukr

Title should be changed to assassination attempt for now

it seems increasingly likely that the assassination was a failure but we shall wait and see https://x.com/glcarlstrom/status/1818344666569359673?s=19 73.207.0.74 (talk) 18:00, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Aljazeera is currently reporting he has survived. 88.21.185.114 (talk) 18:25, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Reuters is reporting that too, he is alive. 217.150.80.101 (talk) 18:29, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

seems like we're getting a u-turn to that he dies

Yup: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/in-reversal-reports-now-say-fuad-shukr-was-killed-in-israel-strike/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ksperber (talk • contribs) 19:06, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Citing security source, Lebanese TV reports Hezbollah commander was killed in strike | The Times of Israel Ksperber (talk) 20:52, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

[1]https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/citing-security-source-lebanese-tv-reports-hezbollah-commander-was-killed-in-strike/ Ksperber (talk) 20:55, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

https://x.com/AlArabiya_Brk/status/1818357174784987406?s=19 73.207.0.74 (talk) 18:53, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

"The Israel Defense Forces confirms that top Hezbollah commander Fuad Shukr was killed in an Israeli airstrike in the Lebanese capital of Beirut earlier this evening." https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-senior-hezbollah-commander-fuad-shukr-was-killed-in-beirut-airstrike/ Ksperber (talk) 21:11, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Hezbollah has confirmed his death [2]. David O. Johnson (talk) 18:04, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 30 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. There has been very strong opinions, and the discussion has died down, a relist won't really help. (non-admin closure) ToadetteEdit (talk) 18:40, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

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2024 Haret Hreik airstrike → 30 July 2024 Beirut attack – a better name would be 30 July 2024 Beirut attack because we only know there is an attack on Beirut, maybe the person isn't dead. Kavas (talk) 18:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

should be changed to assassination attempt because this attack is still significant enough to warrant the title 73.207.0.74 (talk) 18:06, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

some already moved this to neither of this titles

2024 Haret Hreik airstrike 173.72.3.91 (talk) 18:41, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

this is an assasination attempt, as fouad shukr was targetted. 217.150.80.101 (talk) 18:08, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose: Now that he has been confirmed dead it should be Assassination of Fuad Shukr. Prodrummer619 (talk) 19:19, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

:Oppose "Beirut" since Haret Hreik is a more precise location and is a city of its own. Support for the word "Attack". Prodrummer619 (talk) 21:07, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

He's not dead.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.183.229 (talk)

Another article for this exists at July 2024 Israeli attack on Beirut. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:10, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

isint it about the same bombing maybe the 2 articles should be merged 173.72.3.91 (talk) 19:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

The articles have now been merged. Prodrummer619 (talk) 21:05, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Just noting here that they weren't merged; one was redirected to the other; see WP:REDIRECT and WP:MERGE. Nythar (💬-🍀) 21:13, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

• Strong support for using the word "attack". We need to be WP:CONSISTENT with our titles. The event that provoked this, an alleged rocket strike, is also called Majdal Shams attack.In a recently closed move discussion[3], users clearly preferred "attack" over "airstrike" to describe the Tel al-Sultan attack. Likewise there was significant discussion here on whether to use "attack" or "airstrike", that resulted in merger with an article with the title attack (13 July 2024 al-Mawasi attack). An April discussion found unanimous support to move the title away from "drone strikes" to "attack"[4]. Finally, "airstrike" typically implies something that comes from a manned aircraft, while in this case the attack came from an unmanned aircraft which is typically called "drone strike" not "airstrike".VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 00:19, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose the article title as it stands now is accurate.XavierGreen (talk) 00:22, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Strong support for using the word "attack". As said above, WP:CONSISTENT. Changing the name to Beirut would only make sense if the attack became a series of attacks on other areas in Beirut. Similar to the attack for which this one was a retaliation to, that article was also named for the specific area bombed. And the word used was "attack". Should be an easy change for the sake of consistency. —AddieMaddie ^{talk | contribs} 14:49, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose using the word attack or adding Beirut to the title. Some editors are claiming WP:CONSISTENT compels us to title articles about airstrikes as "attacks", yet this ignores the Category:2024 airstrikes page. Yes, some are titled attacks, but there are a variety of other titles being used, such as "airstrike", "strikes", and "missile strike". "airstrike" is in fact a more WP:PRECISE title than "attack", and for that reason we should continue using it here. I would also support changing the title from including "airstrike" to "drone strike". Gödel2200 (talk) 17:40, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

  You misunderstand what the policy WP:Precise means. Unless there is another attack on Haret Hriek in 2024, what you are suggesting is WP:overprecision.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 07:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, all airstrikes are attacks, but not all attacks are airstrikes, so in that sense, this would be over precision. But this is not how I am interpreting WP:OVERPRECISION. In my mind, it is meant to stop titles that are more precise but also make the title longer and more confusing. This is not the case here; if anything, using "airstrike" instead of the (very) general term "attack" is less confusing. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:29, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Strong Oppose using the word 'attack' in the title. Especially now with Hezbollah confirming Shukr's death, this was very clearly an assassination attempt. As such, this topic is synonymous with the Assassination of Saleh al-Arouri, which uses neither. This page also specifically cites the 'attack type' to be 'airstrike'. I would support moving the page to follow this model. They seem to be fairly identical operations, each conducted by some aerial projectile. Debartolo2917 (talk) 01:42, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Comment Should this be closed, since there has not been any traction or consensus since early August? Debartolo2917 (talk) 23:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject International relations, WikiProject Lebanon, WikiProject Death, WikiProject Israel, WikiProject Military history/Post-Cold War task force, WikiProject Explosives, and WikiProject Military history have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 10:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Fuad Shukr should be added to the infobox

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The IDF (along with other unnamed sources and some Arab-language media, which is included in the article body already) claims that Fuad Shukr was killed (per https://www.reuters.com/world/hezbollah-israel-conflict-not-inevitable-us-defense-secretary-says-2024-07-30/). With this in mind, Fuad Shukr should be added as a casualty in the infobox, perhaps with the qualifier "(per Israel)" or "(disputed)", unless/until further information becomes available. This follows the precedent of similar articles, e.g. Tel al-Sultan attack. Weliviewf (talk) 03:13, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 21 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per discussion below. Best, (closed by non-admin page mover) Reading Beans 17:59, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

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2024 Haret Hreik airstrike → July 2024 Haret Hreik attack – This needs to be disambiguated from the September 20 attack also in Haret Hreik[5]. The consensus at that article's talk page seems to be forming around September 2024 Haret Hreik attack, so the proposed title format would be WP:CONSISTENT. The term "attack" in both titles would be consistent with Majdal Shams attack, Nabatieh attack etc. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 05:14, 21 September 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans 06:19, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

We should just do "Assassination of Fuad Shukr" for this since he was the only HA figure killed (consistent with Assassination of Saleh al-Arouri). While the other one should be September 2024 Haret Hreik airstrike Prodrummer619 (talk) 11:38, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

But Iranian military adviser Milad Bedi was also killed, plus 5 civilians? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 13:53, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Support Prodrummer's suggestion. Others killed were collateral victims of the assassination attack. Oppose use of the word "attack" per the arguments from the 30 July 2024 move discussion. Jay 💬 12:54, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: There are two support for an alternative. A relist won’t hurt at this time. Best, Reading Beans 06:19, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Lebanon, WikiProject Death, WikiProject Israel, WikiProject Military history/Post-Cold War task force, WikiProject International relations, WikiProject Explosives, and WikiProject Military history have been notified of this discussion. Reading Beans 06:20, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support Assassination of Fuad Shukr per Jay and Prodrummer. Shukr was the sole target. AllTheUsernamesAreInUse (talk) 18:27, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Breach of network

@Prodrummer619: can you clarify this line: Shukr received a call from someone telling him to go to his apartment five floors up from a likely breach of Hezbollah’s internal communications network. Does it mean someone breached Hezbollah’s internal communications network, and made a call asking Shukr to go to his apartment five floors up? Five floors up from where - from the ground, or from where he was when he received the call?

At Fuad Shukr#Assassination, Blaylockjam10 added content that said .. he had received a call asking him to go from his office to his apartment..., and there is no mention of floors. All content is from a WSJ report which is behind a paywall. Jay 💬 13:18, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

@Jay Yes you can say it was a security breach. He was initially in the second floor according to the WSJ report and was allegedly told to go three floors higher. This is the report with the removed paywall [6] (probably illegal but whatever). Prodrummer619 (talk) 14:57, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, rephrased. Jay 💬 06:45, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 12 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

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Assassination of Fuad Shukr → Killing of Fuad Shukr – "Assassination" implies that the killing was unlawful. We're talking about the killing of a member of a terrorist band during a military conflict, so whether this was legal or not is quite a complex question. "Killing", on the other hand, has no implications. Compare with the article Killing of Osama bin Laden. Cambalachero (talk) 14:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support, "killed" is more common in the sources cited by the article by a decent margin. Toadspike [Talk] 18:57, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Sounds pretty reasonable to me. ZionniThePeruser (talk) 04:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.